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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 14, 2014 18:28:56 GMT -5
There were pictures of cut scenes which implicated they were headed in that direction. Just FYI. I think the show runner/producers/TPTB just realized they were pushing fans right off the deep end and backed out of the full on in our face Tori/Vin relationship. But I thought it was pretty obvious from what she said about him getting out of bed and the bathrobes. Surely she could sleep somewhere else if they weren't doing the nasty. Heiress to how many million dollars? Anyway, just my take. For me, they wanted us to know they had been intimate. They just didn't SHOW it. Yeah I guess you're right. Like I said I only started watching the show once it went on hiatus so I wasn't around for the whole arc and to see the pics but I did see a pic once of them kissing. Very glad that was cut. Maybe you're right and the writers changed the storyline after seeing the viewer reaction. But looking back at the ratings it seems ratings went down from episode 1. But to me still when I watch those episodes when he's with Tori. I don't see him having emotions towards her. Plus that episode when she walks out on the gang the way he says that being around her changes the way he thinks and feels speaks volume to me. Oh well she's gone so who cares bout Tori. I do think they should of waited 1 whole episode before they made Vincent start trying to win Cat back. But I guess thinking this is the last season they needed to rush things a bit. To me, it doesn't matter if he had emotions towards her or not, it only matters to me that they went there with really really dumb love triangles on a show supposedly about "epic love" - a fairy tale no less. There is nothing epic or fairy-tale like about love triangles and sleeping around. Not okay, not fun, not entertaining. Waste of a freaking season.
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 18:37:58 GMT -5
Yeah I guess you're right. Like I said I only started watching the show once it went on hiatus so I wasn't around for the whole arc and to see the pics but I did see a pic once of them kissing. Very glad that was cut. Maybe you're right and the writers changed the storyline after seeing the viewer reaction. But looking back at the ratings it seems ratings went down from episode 1. But to me still when I watch those episodes when he's with Tori. I don't see him having emotions towards her. Plus that episode when she walks out on the gang the way he says that being around her changes the way he thinks and feels speaks volume to me. Oh well she's gone so who cares bout Tori. I do think they should of waited 1 whole episode before they made Vincent start trying to win Cat back. But I guess thinking this is the last season they needed to rush things a bit. To me, it doesn't matter if he had emotions towards her or not, it only matters to me that they went there with really really dumb love triangles on a show supposedly about "epic love" - a fairy tale no less. There is nothing epic or fairy-tale like about love triangles and sleeping around. Not okay, not fun, not entertaining. Waste of a freaking season. yeah but you have to remember they didn't do a love triangle in the angle he had feelings for someone else or wtv they did it in the sense of his beastness. And his connection with another beast. I gotta admit that I don't like how they say Tori had this connection with V that Cat would never have. I really did not like that part of it all.
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Post by raniamahd on May 14, 2014 18:38:32 GMT -5
Tori talked about him getting out of bed with her to call Cat, and yes they were both in bathrobes at his place, the implications and statements were CRYSTAL CLEAR for most of us. They did the deed, the show runners just didn't have the balls to show any of it. They cut the scenes that implied that they were headed in that direction and jumped right to the Vin-Tori relationship drama in episode 12. Anyway, since I didn't see a purpose for the she-beast on beast romance or sex-triangle, or really the need for either of them to explore relationships with others, and since it was all so poorly done and frankly, love triangles for the sake of love triangles - or sex for the sake of sex. I failed to see the point of any of it. Vincent indeed could have lost himself to his beast side, and resisted the urge to sleep with Tori. But that would not serve the soap-operatic purpose of introducing a love triangle. There was a logic in the beginning and it had to do with self discovery and the characters becoming stronger as individuals, I just personally fail to see the point of meaningless sex in there as an excuse for for "self discovery" - it's straight up BS. Others have talked about the need to explore "relationships with others" - in my mind that ship sailed when they fell in love and got together in the first season of the show. Done. Like done done. No going back from that. You can't then backtrack, tear everything down and then pretend to rebuild the love story. It is too late, it already happened B. Kern and company. Someone else already got to do that job. I can see the CW made for TV love triangle coming a mile away and I don't accept it as an acceptable choice of storyline on this show. Not on a show that is supposed to be about epic love. I feel like I got slapped in the face by TPTB over and over and over again. But obviously my opinions on the matter are strong and my standpoint is immovable. LOL. It all kind of makes me sick. LOL I see that. I still choose to believe V didn't sleep with Tori lol do you choose to believe Cat didn't sleep with Gabe either ? or seeing her laying next to him in his bed was enough to believe it ? it was the same thing dear , we didn't saw them doing it but seeing them half naked in bed made it clear + Cat's answer to Tess's question about doing it in Mexico as for V and Tori we also saw them in their bathrobes = half naked and we heard Tori said they were in bed together and V snaked out to call Cat + every one called her his girlfriend and he didn't correct them ? how much clear you want those horrible sex triangles to be to believe they did actually happened ?! i am so sorry more than can you ever imagine but that really happened and there is no ( undo) button we can press to delete that ! as for the storyline you mentioned just one question : since when sleeping around and sex triangles consider as a storyline ?
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 18:53:00 GMT -5
LOL I see that. I still choose to believe V didn't sleep with Tori lol do you choose to believe Cat didn't sleep with Gabe either ? or seeing her laying next to him in his bed was enough to believe it ? it was the same thing dear , we didn't saw them doing it but seeing them half naked in bed made it clear + Cat's answer to Tess's question about doing it in Mexico as for V and Tori we also saw them in their bathrobes = half naked and we heard Tori said they were in bed together and V snaked out to call Cat + every one called her his girlfriend and he didn't correct them ? how much clear you want those horrible sex triangles to be to believe they did actually happened ?! i am so sorry more than can you ever imagine but that really happened and there is no ( undo) button we can press to delete that ! as for the storyline you mentioned just one question : since when sleeping around and sex triangles consider as a storyline ? LOL Nah as for Cat I knew she did cause of the convo with Tess. But Im not so bothered by it, maybe its cause I know hes not the reason why VinCat broke up. Yea there was a few hints but it could be interpreted either way and whenever someone called Tori V's girlfriend he wasn't around to correct them anyways and what was the poor guy to do anyways he was obviously being emotionally and mind controlled by Tori and even then he couldn't forget about Cat. I'm not saying sleeping around and sex triangles was the storyline. There was more behind there if you look deeper they both did dumb <edited> to forget about one another. Clearly neither wanted it to be over but Cat shooting V couldn't just be forgotten. The whole point of the storyline was to show in a way to VinCat that they are destined to be together. This is how I see it, they cant always make us happy and have no angst or people wont watch. Being a lovey dovey 24/7 isn't always the best thing and yes yes I get all you guys just don't understand why they had to throw V with Tori and Cat with Gabe to accomplish that. I get it I really do.
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Post by raniamahd on May 14, 2014 19:10:09 GMT -5
do you choose to believe Cat didn't sleep with Gabe either ? or seeing her laying next to him in his bed was enough to believe it ? it was the same thing dear , we didn't saw them doing it but seeing them half naked in bed made it clear + Cat's answer to Tess's question about doing it in Mexico as for V and Tori we also saw them in their bathrobes = half naked and we heard Tori said they were in bed together and V snaked out to call Cat + every one called her his girlfriend and he didn't correct them ? how much clear you want those horrible sex triangles to be to believe they did actually happened ?! i am so sorry more than can you ever imagine but that really happened and there is no ( undo) button we can press to delete that ! as for the storyline you mentioned just one question : since when sleeping around and sex triangles consider as a storyline ? LOL Nah as for Cat I knew she did cause of the convo with Tess. But Im not so bothered by it, maybe its cause I know hes not the reason why VinCat broke up. Yea there was a few hints but it could be interpreted either way and whenever someone called Tori V's girlfriend he wasn't around to correct them anyways and what was the poor guy to do anyways he was obviously being emotionally and mind controlled by Tori and even then he couldn't forget about Cat. I'm not saying sleeping around and sex triangles was the storyline. There was more behind there if you look deeper they both did dumb crap to forget about one another. Clearly neither wanted it to be over but Cat shooting V couldn't just be forgotten. The whole point of the storyline was to show in a way to VinCat that they are destined to be together. This is how I see it, they cant always make us happy and have no angst or people wont watch. Being a lovey dovey 24/7 isn't always the best thing and yes yes I get all you guys just don't understand why they had to throw V with Tori and Cat with Gabe to accomplish that. I get it I really do. well i think even Tori's line to V (you didn't promise me with a future but we are in a relationship ) that won't change your opinion too ? so i guess everyone of us is holding onto her opinion in this case ! and its fine by me , so let us just agree to disagree on this topic dear and now its time for me to say goodnight every body
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 19:26:56 GMT -5
LOL Nah as for Cat I knew she did cause of the convo with Tess. But Im not so bothered by it, maybe its cause I know hes not the reason why VinCat broke up. Yea there was a few hints but it could be interpreted either way and whenever someone called Tori V's girlfriend he wasn't around to correct them anyways and what was the poor guy to do anyways he was obviously being emotionally and mind controlled by Tori and even then he couldn't forget about Cat. I'm not saying sleeping around and sex triangles was the storyline. There was more behind there if you look deeper they both did dumb crap to forget about one another. Clearly neither wanted it to be over but Cat shooting V couldn't just be forgotten. The whole point of the storyline was to show in a way to VinCat that they are destined to be together. This is how I see it, they cant always make us happy and have no angst or people wont watch. Being a lovey dovey 24/7 isn't always the best thing and yes yes I get all you guys just don't understand why they had to throw V with Tori and Cat with Gabe to accomplish that. I get it I really do. well i think even Tori's line to V (you didn't promise me with a future but we are in a relationship ) that won't change your opinion too ? so i guess everyone of us is holding onto her opinion in this case ! and its fine by me , so let us just agree to disagree on this topic dear and now its time for me to say goodnight every body well actually she said (you didn't promise me a future but we are in some kind of relationship) that doesn't imply a full blown relationship just some kind of relationship plus you can clearly see in that scene that hes not really into it. When Tori cane down the stairs you could see his face, it was like oh no, not her again look. Plus right after she said that he didn't say anything and she did ask him if he wanted to go back to Cat and his face said it all. In that whole episode you could see he didn't want to be with her. Even she knew it.. But yeah you are right lets agree to disagree. Not everyone feels that way about the Tori/Vincent relationship but some of you guys do. To me when I watch it and I watch it every single night before I go to bed, I see it as Vincent never wanted to be with Tori and to me its clear in every single episode that aired after VinCat broke up. But that's just my outlook on it so whatever.
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Post by feezya on May 15, 2014 3:38:19 GMT -5
I need to add just a few minor observations. Why is that some have double standards when looking at what Vincent has done and what Gabe has done? We can forgive Vincent for killing and hurting others but can not forgive Gabe? (and as this is a sci-fi I don't expect anyone to behave normally) As Vincent wanted to change and redeem himself in Catherine's eyes Gabe wanted to do the same. The other thing I don't really understand as why do we call this show a soap opera with love triangles? THAT part is like 10% of the show. So many thing is happening in the show besides who sleeps with whom...
It's not double standards really. Gabe was just someone she worked with who betrayed her in so many ways but Vincent is the man she loves. And all of us who have been in love know that when you love someone you forgive. Yes Vincent has done some awful things but even in our eyes Vincent is more redeemable then Gabe. And Gabe only did all those things to get on Catherine's good graces cause he had feelings for her and knew once Vincent was out of the picture he could be there for her to pick up the pieces. All we knew of Gabe last season was he was evil and well Vincent was kind sweet loving care and the list goes on. So it is much easier for us all to forgive Vincent cause we know he has a good heart.
and it helps too when he comes in such a good package Hi hi hi… sorry, not helping and totally out of context
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Post by feezya on May 15, 2014 3:51:09 GMT -5
There were pictures of cut scenes which implicated they were headed in that direction. Just FYI. I think the show runner/producers/TPTB just realized they were pushing fans right off the deep end and backed out of the full on in our face Tori/Vin relationship. But I thought it was pretty obvious from what she said about him getting out of bed and the bathrobes. Surely she could sleep somewhere else if they weren't doing the nasty. Heiress to how many million dollars? Anyway, just my take. For me, they wanted us to know they had been intimate. They just didn't SHOW it. Yeah I guess you're right. Like I said I only started watching the show once it went on hiatus so I wasn't around for the whole arc and to see the pics but I did see a pic once of them kissing. Very glad that was cut. Maybe you're right and the writers changed the storyline after seeing the viewer reaction. But looking back at the ratings it seems ratings went down from episode 1. But to me still when I watch those episodes when he's with Tori. I don't see him having emotions towards her. Plus that episode when she walks out on the gang the way he says that being around her changes the way he thinks and feels speaks volume to me. Oh well she's gone so who cares bout Tori. I do think they should of waited 1 whole episode before they made Vincent start trying to win Cat back. But I guess thinking this is the last season they needed to rush things a bit. the beauty of watching batb at one shot (marathon) u don't have that 7 days in between each episodes to let your emotion and speculating self go overdrive and over think everything Yes, i enjoyed binging watching (for both S1 and S2) soooo much better than the normal way
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Post by jemangela on May 15, 2014 9:09:47 GMT -5
To me, it doesn't matter if he had emotions towards her or not, it only matters to me that they went there with really really dumb love triangles on a show supposedly about "epic love" - a fairy tale no less. There is nothing epic or fairy-tale like about love triangles and sleeping around. Not okay, not fun, not entertaining. Waste of a freaking season. yeah but you have to remember they didn't do a love triangle in the angle he had feelings for someone else or wtv they did it in the sense of his beastness. And his connection with another beast. I gotta admit that I don't like how they say Tori had this connection with V that Cat would never have. I really did not like that part of it all.I absolutely hate that part too...my heart just broke, again (felt like someone grabbed my heart and squeezed it...oh, the pain ). I'm now starting to think that is probably the main reason I still have major issues with Vincent and Tori together compared to Catherine and Gabe. A part of me still hasn't forgiven Vincent (probably never will) for that whole Tori stuff and if this was real life, I would have an effigy of Vincent that I would periodically set on fire to assuage my anger towards him
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Post by texasscotian on May 15, 2014 9:40:38 GMT -5
yeah but you have to remember they didn't do a love triangle in the angle he had feelings for someone else or wtv they did it in the sense of his beastness. And his connection with another beast. I gotta admit that I don't like how they say Tori had this connection with V that Cat would never have. I really did not like that part of it all.I absolutely hate that part too...my heart just broke, again (felt like someone grabbed my heart and squeezed it...oh, the pain ). I'm now starting to think that is probably the main reason I still have major issues with Vincent and Tori together compared to Catherine and Gabe. A part of me still hasn't forgiven Vincent (probably never will) for that whole Tori stuff and if this was real life, I would have an effigy of Vincent that I would periodically set on fire to assuage my anger towards him Note to self..... don't ever tick off jemangela #shadesofwaitingtoexhale
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Post by jemangela on May 15, 2014 9:56:08 GMT -5
I absolutely hate that part too...my heart just broke, again (felt like someone grabbed my heart and squeezed it...oh, the pain ). I'm now starting to think that is probably the main reason I still have major issues with Vincent and Tori together compared to Catherine and Gabe. A part of me still hasn't forgiven Vincent (probably never will) for that whole Tori stuff and if this was real life, I would have an effigy of Vincent that I would periodically set on fire to assuage my anger towards him Note to self..... don't ever tick off jemangela #shadesofwaitingtoexhale ..oh, have no worries, I'm slow to anger and even slower to react.....however, should that day ever come (God forbid) I would probably set my cat on the culprit.... before I go the effigy route ...
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 15, 2014 10:44:08 GMT -5
yeah but you have to remember they didn't do a love triangle in the angle he had feelings for someone else or wtv they did it in the sense of his beastness. And his connection with another beast. I gotta admit that I don't like how they say Tori had this connection with V that Cat would never have. I really did not like that part of it all.I absolutely hate that part too...my heart just broke, again (felt like someone grabbed my heart and squeezed it...oh, the pain ). I'm now starting to think that is probably the main reason I still have major issues with Vincent and Tori together compared to Catherine and Gabe. A part of me still hasn't forgiven Vincent (probably never will) for that whole Tori stuff and if this was real life, I would have an effigy of Vincent that I would periodically set on fire to assuage my anger towards him I know we are off topic and down the rabbit hole and I will never forgive TPTB for the mess they made of our love story in S2 - so don't take this the wrong way - but we really never saw that "Tori has a connection with Vincent that Cat will never have" thing onscreen... They talked about it, and then I think they figured out - maybe on the cutting room floor- that if they pursued that to it's full extent, especially "romantically" or sexually, it really would sink the VinCat ship. I think TPTB thought the Beast on She-Beast thing was a good idea conceptually but it didn't work when they tried to execute it. I'm not sure why, but I think it had to do with sinking VinCat - like to the bottom of the ocean. It was a terrible idea. If they wanted him to have a "special" connection with another beast - it should not have been a kill two birds with one stone situation, with a romantic or sexual connection. BATB is not the Beast and the She-Beast. Period.
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Post by ArwenFan on May 15, 2014 11:05:25 GMT -5
I don't necessarily agree with you on that. Yes last year was all about Vincent. But not this year really. Cat did have her own storyline in a way with her father and so did Vincent but then those two storylines became one. And now they are going to go into the mythology of why they are destined. But theres a big factor with her greant aunt. I think it feels like she doesn't have a storyline because her storyline brings her back to Vincent's storyline. But that's just a way to show that they are destined. If you look closely Catherine has had storylines that one didn't necessarily involve Vincent; in the beginning at least. Like finding out her father wasn't who she thought he was. And then now finding out about her great aunt and that gem. The only reason why it seems like its Vincent storyline is because the gem controlled beasts which obviously involves Vincent.
The point is that they changed her character. She started out S1 as a strong female lead, and then she became a weak female almost out of the starting gate in S2. We saw glimpses of the old Cat sometimes, but for the most part TPTB forgot who the heck she was supposed to be in S2. The old Cat would have never allowed the way Gabe talked to or treated her, or the crap he said about Vincent. You could see Vincent's character development happening at a certain point, but Cat, on the other hand, back-slid embarrassingly. But then again, the old Cat saw had a spine. Just the fact that she would go there with Gabe... I'll never feel the same way about her again. I am amusing myself by doing a study of the "Gabe arc," and no matter how I look at or try to figure out Catherine's behavior once she got with Gabe, I'm having trouble. I can see that she's still in love with Vincent. Her conflict and discomfort in Gabe's treatment of Vincent in her presence is obvious. But she still lies to Tess (takes Gabe's side and says she wants to focus on Gabe), lies to Gabe ("I'm with you"), lies to Vincent ("I'm with Gabe") and most of all lies to herself. She listens to Gabe and Bob the sperm donor (I will never call him her father because he hasn't done anything fatherly EVER) bash Vincent and even entertains their opinions. At times it feels like she was the one who had her memory wiped. She knows Vincent better than all of the other people in her life put together (JT excluded). She knows what kind of man he is, how big of a heart he has. She was the one who described him as "strong, intelligent, heroic, vulnerable." But she never acknowledged that once during all the Vincent bashing and Vincent blaming. She totally ignored the fact that when she found Vincent again he'd been radically changed through no fault of his own. And when he did begin to find himself again, she never once told Gabe or Bob or Tess that the REAL Vincent was back--that he had fought through everything that had twisted and changed him to reclaim his identity and sense of self. She acted like the super-charged beast was the real Vincent just like Bob and Tess and Gabe. And then when she did finally give into her real desire she tried to use 'the devil made me do it' excuse ("it was just break-up sex") and was still saying she was with Gabe. WHO DOES THAT? Most of the season Catherine acted like she was 15 rather than 30. If she had faced up to her feelings and self-reflected even once, her character would have benefited greatly. But she never did. So, I'm left with the mystery of why Catherine went along with Gabe at all. Based on all of this (and Gabe's history), they didn't work and never made sense IMO. At least I can understand Vincent and Tori, but I stop way short of calling them a couple. Season 2 didn't have any love triangles...it had MASS CONFUSION.
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Post by ArwenFan on May 15, 2014 11:15:13 GMT -5
I can answer the first question not the second cause I really don't see the show as a soap . in fact I hate soap operas with a passion. Regarding the first question to put it simply the main difference between v and g is that v is essentially a good heroic person and g is essentially an ugly person inside and a coward. Having said that I love baddies if they are multidimensional and multifaceted but to me Gabe is not yet a convincing or compelling enough baddie. So it is not a matter of forgiving him. U always need a baddie in a show. Maybe Gabe proves to be the best baddie ever from now on but not fully with him yet. Um? Heroic? I don't see anything heroic in what Vincent does... Here's a short list: Rushing in to save JT from Sam and 'Frank Barnes'. Saving Jacob Sutter (hospital) and Xavier Wright from Sam's beast schemes. Saving Gabe from being beast fodder again. Saving Gabe and Cat from death by explosion. Saving Tess from death by gunfire. Vincent tries to do what is right for someone else without worrying about his safety or comfort. He is selfless.
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Post by Nelly on May 15, 2014 11:41:27 GMT -5
Um? Heroic? I don't see anything heroic in what Vincent does... Here's a short list: Rushing in to save JT from Sam and 'Frank Barnes'. Saving Jacob Sutter (hospital) and Xavier Wright from Sam's beast schemes. Saving Gabe from being beast fodder again. Saving Gabe and Cat from death by explosion. Saving Tess from death by gunfire. Vincent tries to do what is right for someone else without worrying about his safety or comfort. He is selfless. Thank you for the list! I know Vincent tries to do the right thing I just don't consider it as heroic while in the meantime he also kills people. He might become heroic in the future when he can save others without killing. This is just my point of view.
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