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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on May 14, 2014 10:42:17 GMT -5
The whole situation around this show has left many shaking their heads I think. Network exec's from other networks, industry insiders, the many pundits who prognosticate, etc, etc. Now, the question in my mind is how The CW will promote (if they even will) Season 3 of this show. No appearance by Jay and Kristin at the Upfronts. Apparently no appearance at the Comic-con in San Diego in July. It seems that BATB will take on an almost outlier status among "network" shows where the whole traditional business model is set aside. Very interesting. I hate to admit it, but I find this aspect of BATB more interesting than the show itself. how do u know about their non appearance in comiconl
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Post by raniamahd on May 14, 2014 10:47:32 GMT -5
one more thing i have to say it about Gabe ( i will copy this post in the other thread too because it seems like he is the major topic of discussion now ! ) forgive Gabe is one thing and being in a relationship with him is another different think ! because as SpydancerLovesVincat said that love triangle isn't convinced at all ! because even if we ( the viewers ) and Cat believe he changed and try hard to redeem himself that doesn't mean Cat owes him a relationship in return ?!( in some point they made it looked like that ! ) you don't have to be with someone you don't love because he is nice to you or to prove you forgave him ? like a debt you pay him ! what about love and feeling ? i thought those are the major factors in any relation ? you have a relationship with some one because you love him or at lest have that kind of feeling for him ( which Cat sure didn't have for him , she was never confused about it , the matter of her feeling was always clear for every body starting from her , she keep saying "i am with Gabe but never said i love him , or i have feeling or a thing for him ) if you impress with some thing good some one did ? by his effort to redeem himself ? say bravo give him a gift , but sure don't have sex with him or worse consider a relation with him for that reason ! i do believe Cat in her subconscious has more reasons connecting to her love for V made her accept to be with Gabe , but i am talking about what some people said about Gabe redeem himself and treated Cat well , so why doesn't she forgive him and be with him ? why forgiving Vincent and go back to him but not Gabe ? simply because it is not a competition Cat is its trophy ! and let the best win ?! she is human being who has a heart and feeling and has the right to be in love with someone to be with him , as the right of making her own decisions and her own mistakes too !
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on May 14, 2014 11:03:51 GMT -5
Definitely not in Season 2. I think she's referring to pre-Season 2. I think this does drill down to the basic problem the show had this season though. The good guy is the bad guy, and the bad guy is the good guy. Such a weird and confusing situation that many viewers just couldn't get their heads wrapped around it. not in season 2 when he was not himself but he is back to being himself now but probably my choice of word is anyway unfortunate, not sure what the best word is to describe him i dont think the bad guy/good guy thing was too confusing i think most people knew that gabe was putting up a front cause his character was very blunt and unconvincing as a good person, he was like a robot and vincent was going through hell himself so i would not class him as bad in season 2 But we have to admit that many people during this season felt Vincent heartless and a bad person. They (writters) put some situations that really made some people mad (the push, the coldness after Tori's appearance, not attending her after the car accident...) What we always forget is that Vincent is not ONLY a man but half BEAST. And as difficult as it may be to make a difference between the both sides, the fact is that his DNA is altered and sometimes it overpowers him and makes him behave worse than other typical man. Especially when he is angry and disappointed and deceived. IMO Gabe could redeem himself the same Vincent could redeem himself in front of Catherine. What I don't buy and will not buy is the REASON behind and THE WAY each of them did it. Another "issue" here is that, as much as we guessed or expected Gabe to be the baddie, there were not too many reasons during first 10-11 episodes to think that he was bad. He was boring to death, yes, but he was supporting C, helping the gang, even at some point trying to help VinCat to be together again! Well, at least from our POV that's what it looked like. Which are the reasons behind? Who knows? Maybe we discover them soon. The truth is that Gabe KNEW from the beginning that C still loves V despite their break up but still "pushed" her to take a decision (don't get me wrong, I know it was C decision to start a relationship with G but I think G used C's "weaknesses" and being down and lost to his cause). And when he saw the risk of losing C he had no issues trying to threat V, make him feel worthless, and talking the worse about him in front of C. That is NOT THE WAY, IMO.
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Post by kiki09 on May 14, 2014 11:15:34 GMT -5
The whole situation around this show has left many shaking their heads I think. Network exec's from other networks, industry insiders, the many pundits who prognosticate, etc, etc. Now, the question in my mind is how The CW will promote (if they even will) Season 3 of this show. No appearance by Jay and Kristin at the Upfronts. Apparently no appearance at the Comic-con in San Diego in July. It seems that BATB will take on an almost outlier status among "network" shows where the whole traditional business model is set aside. Very interesting. I hate to admit it, but I find this aspect of BATB more interesting than the show itself. how do u know about their non appearance in comiconl Exactly. That seems like speculation to me. I don't decisions about SDCC have been made yet.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 11:50:47 GMT -5
My goodness. Obviously speculation. That's why I said "apparently." It is a rumor that I heard though.....FWIW. Let me repeat again. This is speculation regarding I rumor I heard.
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 12:10:03 GMT -5
It's not double standards really. Gabe was just someone she worked with who betrayed her in so many ways but Vincent is the man she loves. And all of us who have been in love know that when you love someone you forgive. Yes Vincent has done some awful things but even in our eyes Vincent is more redeemable then Gabe. And Gabe only did all those things to get on Catherine's good graces cause he had feelings for her and knew once Vincent was out of the picture he could be there for her to pick up the pieces. All we knew of Gabe last season was he was evil and well Vincent was kind sweet loving care and the list goes on. So it is much easier for us all to forgive Vincent cause we know he has a good heart.
I accept that and don't get me wrong I am 100% pro Vincent. Well, that's not surprising. I just don't hate Gabe blindly just because he is Gabe. I do understand his actions and the way he acts. He did all those things because he fell in love with Catherine. Alternative motive? Um... no. As a bad guy he thought that was the right behaviour, it's in his nature. It is not his fault Catherine chose Vincent. So if he goes against Vincent and Catherine I would understand that too. BUT that is his purpose as a character, another obstacle in Vincent and Catherine's relationship. I don't hate Gabe either; he's fighting a losing battle. Well he already lost but we know that wont stop him. And he knew it too that was the only reason he showed up at Vincent's apartment in 2x15 cause he knew Catherine was softening up to him and manipulating Vincent was his last chance to hold onto her. His future actions will determine whether he is a good guy or bad guy. But other then Cat, Gabe doesn't really have a storyline, he did last yr but not this yr. I highly doubt he was the one responsible for Vincent's arrest. They just made him say those things to make us think it was him but really it wasn't. Time will tell
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 14, 2014 12:11:53 GMT -5
Um? Heroic? I don't see anything heroic in what Vincent does... probably wrong choice of word he is always trying to save others and help others even when he does not have to and even when it is actually to his detriment what is the right word for that? selfless? either way u get the gist of what i am trying to say the main point i was making is that gabe and vincent are very differen tpeople and i dont need to forgive gabe, since we need somebody to stir the boat etc etc. my issue with gabe is that as a baddie he could have been scripted/written much better than he has I think the point is that Vincent lost himself to his beast side somewhere between the lost three months, brainwashing, she-beast influence, and yes, getting shot by someone he thought was "on his side." Every "kill" prior to this (when he was in his right mind) pre-season 2 was technically to rescue someone and was an example of the wrong thing happening for the right reason. Vincent, in essence, was introduced to us as a "heroic" character when we watched him save Cat's life multiple times early on in the show. On the flip side, Gabe was introduced on the show as a "shady" character who was interested in saving himself no matter who got hurt in the process, including killing others to save himself. Vincent, arguably, would not have chosen to sacrifice someone else in order to save his own life, rather did so in the hope of saving or rescuing others. This, at the base level, is the difference. And if you ask me, they used Gabe's supposed transformation to a "good guy" as a opposite parallel to Vincent's spiral downward. And as Vincent stepped away from his beast side in the interest of reformation, or "so-called character growth," his return to the "good guy" was an obvious parallel to Gabe. If Catherine could see the good in Gabe and "supposedly" become romantically interested in him even after everything he had done before, well then the same was possible for Vincent, who had undergone a similar transformation. Of course, I found very little about this particular storyline convincing, I'm just saying what I think TPTB wanted us to see and feel. I thought the whole thing was a freaking waste of time - particularly with the Gabe triangle. But if you believe all of this, the question, then lies, in the original root morals of these characters. At the base level, who is Gabe? Who is Vincent? Are they who they pretend to be? I guess the answers depend on your perspective. Personally I think the real slim shady is still a shady smarmy slimy piece of evil, but that is just me. It lowered Catherine in my eyes that she didn't see through Gabe's manipulations, and yes, as others have said, just because he had "supposedly" reformed his character or "proved himself" as a so-called good guy, doesn't mean anyone needs to be jumping into bed with him. And that she did the deed? Ewe. Gross. I just wish I had never seen any of that. As for the other, I feel like S2 has been "soapy" because of all of the bed hopping and relationship sloppiness with the leading characters. I WISH some of it felt a little less like a cheesy soap-opera, and a little more authentic, but since I feel like a root canal complete with anesthesia seems like ALOT more fun than watching some of S2 again, well there you have it. In the end, for me, authenticity counts. S2 of BATB just hasn't felt authentic. If I don't believe what I'm watching, how can it be even remotely enjoyable? Also, the fact that I preferred a love triangle on Grey's Anatomy? No bueno Batman. But at least I liked all of those characters, and was interested in what was happening with them. For me it was an embarrassing parallel. Grey's is notorious for all of the soapy sleeping around. I thought BATB was a better show than that. S2 proved me wrong. And even if BATB has redeemed or reformed itself like Vincent or Gabe, the damage has already been done.
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 12:23:39 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone keeps saying it feels like a soap opera. It doesn't to me. Cat wasn't really hopping beds. Vincent and her broke up and then she gave Gabe a chance. I am very glad I did not see a sex scene. We should be happy that they we're3 only really apart for what 3 episodes. Ok there was no kissing in more then 3 but even though they we're still apart to me it felt like I didn't need them to kiss to be happy just to have some emotional scenes with them was enough. But back to my point they weren't apart that long. I have watched shows where I waited 2 seasons for the couple I was rooting for to get back together so Ill take this over waiting for 2 years.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 14, 2014 13:01:13 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone keeps saying it feels like a soap opera. It doesn't to me. Cat wasn't really hopping beds. Vincent and her broke up and then she gave Gabe a chance. I am very glad I did not see a sex scene. We should be happy that they we're3 only really apart for what 3 episodes. Ok there was no kissing in more then 3 but even though they we're still apart to me it felt like I didn't need them to kiss to be happy just to have some emotional scenes with them was enough. But back to my point they weren't apart that long. I have watched shows where I waited 2 seasons for the couple I was rooting for to get back together so Ill take this over waiting for 2 years. Well, because frankly, that is what Vincent sleeping with Tori and Cat sleeping with Gabe felt like - these are the BEASTS & SHE-BEASTS and BEAUTIES of our Lives. We each have a right to our own opinion. They switched gears WICKED fast from Vin/Cat sleeping together at her father's house to Vin kissing Tori then Tori/Vin and Tori dying to Gabe/Cat and Cat sleeping with Gabe. As for Vincent, who knows how fast he jumped into bed with the she-beast. But in my mind it was FAST, like I got whiplash and might have just seen the champion of the Kentucky Derby FAST. And the other thing, which I think is key for ALOT OF BEASTIES, is that none of it was even remotely necessary. The theme of S2 was "WHO AM I" - not who am I with other people. It is not necessary after you have met the love of your life to explore relationships with others, figure yourself out, yes, maybe, but the other is just made for TV melodrama. It was salacious sex for the sake of itself, not anything more or less. That is the way some of us see it and it does matter how anyone argues the other POV, it will never be anything more. They were hoping to draw in new viewers - like people who like The Vampire Diaries, and in doing so, alienated a portion of their core audience. I signed up for a romance - a love story, not a soap opera. People swore up down around and sideways to hang in there and that Vin/Tori would not go there when the turkey trauma kiss debacle all started and I had a really bad feeling, little did I know it would get so much worse. I've never been more disappointed by the choices of the show runners and producers of a TV show. They dumbed it down, and tore down everything that was beautiful that they build in S1, like not just the house and it's walls but the foundation too. I found it despicable. And for the record, the love triangles started in episode 7 and ended in episode 16, and spanned nearly half the season.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on May 14, 2014 13:23:11 GMT -5
lol we really have got very much into the gabe character here havent we ok for clarification and to make my position
a - i do not hate gabe and i would not mind him being here for a season 3 though i would not care if he was not b - the reason for that is not because of the triangle. the reason is because i did not feel compelled by him as a character
specifically regarding b, i thought he had some potential in season 1 but even then he was , ot a complicated enough baddie i did not think..i like complicated baddies - where there is a good mix between good and bad. and you hate them but you also like them. they are not black and white - good example is daddy reynolds and lex in smallville. another good example is a character from banshee which i am currently watching. even in season 1 gabe was a mere coward and there was not much depth to his character, i did not feel. in seaosn 2 even more so. i am convinced he will be the big baddie/focus of the rest of the season (as per ashton he really features heavily in the finale). but all i saw in the first half and more is a blunt, supposedly reformed character, boring. did not see anything else besides that. so no, i am not interested in him as a character at the moment and i am hoping they will do a better job of him in the last six episodes. but these are the reasons why i do not like Gabe, nothing to do with the actual storyline, which was a silly storyline in terms of the triangle but did not shape my view of gabe at all...
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 13:39:00 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone keeps saying it feels like a soap opera. It doesn't to me. Cat wasn't really hopping beds. Vincent and her broke up and then she gave Gabe a chance. I am very glad I did not see a sex scene. We should be happy that they we're3 only really apart for what 3 episodes. Ok there was no kissing in more then 3 but even though they we're still apart to me it felt like I didn't need them to kiss to be happy just to have some emotional scenes with them was enough. But back to my point they weren't apart that long. I have watched shows where I waited 2 seasons for the couple I was rooting for to get back together so Ill take this over waiting for 2 years. Well, because frankly, that is what Vincent sleeping with Tori and Cat sleeping with Gabe felt like - these are the BEASTS & SHE-BEASTS and BEAUTIES of our Lives. We each have a right to our own opinion. They switched gears WICKED fast from Vin/Cat sleeping together at her father's house to Vin kissing Tori then Tori/Vin and Tori dying to Gabe/Cat and Cat sleeping with Gabe. As for Vincent, who knows how fast he jumped into bed with the she-beast. But in my mind it was FAST, like I got whiplash and might have just seen the champion of the Kentucky Derby FAST. And the other thing, which I think is key for ALOT OF BEASTIES, is that none of it was even remotely necessary. The theme of S2 was "WHO AM I" - not who am I with other people. It is not necessary after you have met the love of your life to explore relationships with others, figure yourself out, yes, maybe, but the other is just made for TV melodrama. It was salacious sex for the sake of itself, not anything more or less. That is the way some of us see it and it does matter how anyone argues the other POV, it will never be anything more. They were hoping to draw in new viewers - like people who like The Vampire Diaries, and in doing so, alienated a portion of their core audience. I signed up for a romance - a love story, not a soap opera. People swore up down around and sideways to hang in there and that Vin/Tori would not go there when the turkey trauma kiss debacle all started and I had a really bad feeling, little did I know it would get so much worse. I've never been more disappointed by the choices of the show runners and producers of a TV show. They dumbed it down, and tore down everything that was beautiful that they build in S1, like not just the house and it's walls but the foundation too. I found it despicable. And for the record, the love triangles started in episode 7 and ended in episode 16, and spanned nearly half the season. Like you said everyone has their own POV, but I'm curious as to why everyone is so sure he slept with Tori. In my mind he didn't lol yes she wore a robe and what not but when I watched the show and I have rewatched those episodes a number of times it is very clear to me that Vincent had no feelings for Tori whatsoever. She was clingy to him but I saw no emotion on his part it was more her with her primal connection crap. I don't know I think they rushed all these storylines cuz season 3 was suppose to be who we are. And at some point they needed to explore Vincent's darker side and by bringing in a love triangle at the same time they killed 2 birds with one stone. They couldn't like explore darker side then bring VinCat back together then explore the she-beast and break them apart again that would just be wayyy too much angst. Anyways everyone has their own POV. And I think Cat also needed to explore a different relationship to see her relationship with Vincent more clearly and it would of been just stupid to have Vincent with someone else and then go back to Cat like Cat was just there waiting for him the whole time. The writers can't make everyone happy. I for one did not necessarily watch the show just for romance, yes it was a big part of the reason but also the storyline. And to be honest that is another reason why they don't have such high ratings too. But whatever our VinCat are now back together and as the writers say stronger then ever.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 14, 2014 13:51:26 GMT -5
Like you said everyone has their own POV, but I'm curious as to why everyone is so sure he slept with Tori. In my mind he didn't lol yes she wore a robe and what not but when I watched the show and I have rewatched those episodes a number of times it is very clear to me that Vincent had no feelings for Tori whatsoever. She was clingy to him but I saw no emotion on his part it was more her with her primal connection crap. I don't know I think they rushed all these storylines cuz season 3 was suppose to be who we are. And at some point they needed to explore Vincent's darker side and by bringing in a love triangle at the same time they killed 2 birds with one stone. They couldn't like explore darker side then bring VinCat back together then explore the she-beast and break them apart again that would just be wayyy too much angst. Anyways everyone has their own POV. And I think Cat also needed to explore a different relationship to see her relationship with Vincent more clearly and it would of been just stupid to have Vincent with someone else and then go back to Cat like Cat was just there waiting for him the whole time. The writers can't make everyone happy. I for one did not necessarily watch the show just for romance, yes it was a big part of the reason but also the storyline. And to be honest that is another reason why they don't have such high ratings too. But whatever our VinCat are now back together and as the writers say stronger then ever. Tori talked about him getting out of bed with her to call Cat, and yes they were both in bathrobes at his place, the implications and statements were CRYSTAL CLEAR for most of us. They did the deed, the show runners just didn't have the balls to show any of it. They cut the scenes that implied that they were headed in that direction and jumped right to the Vin-Tori relationship drama in episode 12. Anyway, since I didn't see a purpose for the she-beast on beast romance or sex-triangle, or really the need for either of them to explore relationships with others, and since it was all so poorly done and frankly, love triangles for the sake of love triangles - or sex for the sake of sex. I failed to see the point of any of it. Vincent indeed could have lost himself to his beast side, and resisted the urge to sleep with Tori. But that would not serve the soap-operatic purpose of introducing a love triangle. There was a logic in the beginning and it had to do with self discovery and the characters becoming stronger as individuals, I just personally fail to see the point of meaningless sex in there as an excuse for for "self discovery" - it's straight up BS. Others have talked about the need to explore "relationships with others" - in my mind that ship sailed when they fell in love and got together in the first season of the show. Done. Like done done. No going back from that. You can't then backtrack, tear everything down and then pretend to rebuild the love story. It is too late, it already happened B. Kern and company. Someone else already got to do that job. I can see the CW made for TV love triangle coming a mile away and I don't accept it as an acceptable choice of storyline on this show. Not on a show that is supposed to be about epic love. I feel like I got slapped in the face by TPTB over and over and over again. But obviously my opinions on the matter are strong and my standpoint is immovable. LOL. It all kind of makes me sick.
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 14:11:34 GMT -5
Like you said everyone has their own POV, but I'm curious as to why everyone is so sure he slept with Tori. In my mind he didn't lol yes she wore a robe and what not but when I watched the show and I have rewatched those episodes a number of times it is very clear to me that Vincent had no feelings for Tori whatsoever. She was clingy to him but I saw no emotion on his part it was more her with her primal connection crap. I don't know I think they rushed all these storylines cuz season 3 was suppose to be who we are. And at some point they needed to explore Vincent's darker side and by bringing in a love triangle at the same time they killed 2 birds with one stone. They couldn't like explore darker side then bring VinCat back together then explore the she-beast and break them apart again that would just be wayyy too much angst. Anyways everyone has their own POV. And I think Cat also needed to explore a different relationship to see her relationship with Vincent more clearly and it would of been just stupid to have Vincent with someone else and then go back to Cat like Cat was just there waiting for him the whole time. The writers can't make everyone happy. I for one did not necessarily watch the show just for romance, yes it was a big part of the reason but also the storyline. And to be honest that is another reason why they don't have such high ratings too. But whatever our VinCat are now back together and as the writers say stronger then ever. Tori talked about him getting out of bed with her to call Cat, and yes they were both in bathrobes at his place, the implications and statements were CRYSTAL CLEAR for most of us. They did the deed, the show runners just didn't have the balls to show any of it. They cut the scenes that implied that they were headed in that direction and jumped right to the Vin-Tori relationship drama in episode 12. Anyway, since I didn't see a purpose for the she-beast on beast romance or sex-triangle, or really the need for either of them to explore relationships with others, and since it was all so poorly done and frankly, love triangles for the sake of love triangles - or sex for the sake of sex. I failed to see the point of any of it. Vincent indeed could have lost himself to his beast side, and resisted the urge to sleep with Tori. But that would not serve the soap-operatic purpose of introducing a love triangle. There was a logic in the beginning and it had to do with self discovery and the characters becoming stronger as individuals, I just personally fail to see the point of meaningless sex in there as an excuse for for "self discovery" - it's straight up BS. Others have talked about the need to explore "relationships with others" - in my mind that ship sailed when they fell in love and got together in the first season of the show. Done. Like done done. No going back from that. You can't then backtrack, tear everything down and then pretend to rebuild the love story. It is too late, it already happened B. Kern and company. Someone else already got to do that job. I can see the CW made for TV love triangle coming a mile away and I don't accept it as an acceptable choice of storyline on this show. Not on a show that is supposed to be about epic love. I feel like I got slapped in the face by TPTB over and over and over again. But obviously my opinions on the matter are strong and my standpoint is immovable. LOL. It all kind of makes me sick. LOL I see that. I still choose to believe V didn't sleep with Tori lol
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on May 14, 2014 15:24:30 GMT -5
There were pictures of cut scenes which implicated they were headed in that direction. Just FYI. I think the show runner/producers/TPTB just realized they were pushing fans right off the deep end and backed out of the full on in our face Tori/Vin relationship. But I thought it was pretty obvious from what she said about him getting out of bed and the bathrobes. Surely she could sleep somewhere else if they weren't doing the nasty. Heiress to how many million dollars? Anyway, just my take. For me, they wanted us to know they had been intimate. They just didn't SHOW it.
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Post by vincat4always on May 14, 2014 17:53:11 GMT -5
There were pictures of cut scenes which implicated they were headed in that direction. Just FYI. I think the show runner/producers/TPTB just realized they were pushing fans right off the deep end and backed out of the full on in our face Tori/Vin relationship. But I thought it was pretty obvious from what she said about him getting out of bed and the bathrobes. Surely she could sleep somewhere else if they weren't doing the nasty. Heiress to how many million dollars? Anyway, just my take. For me, they wanted us to know they had been intimate. They just didn't SHOW it. Yeah I guess you're right. Like I said I only started watching the show once it went on hiatus so I wasn't around for the whole arc and to see the pics but I did see a pic once of them kissing. Very glad that was cut. Maybe you're right and the writers changed the storyline after seeing the viewer reaction. But looking back at the ratings it seems ratings went down from episode 1. But to me still when I watch those episodes when he's with Tori. I don't see him having emotions towards her. Plus that episode when she walks out on the gang the way he says that being around her changes the way he thinks and feels speaks volume to me. Oh well she's gone so who cares bout Tori. I do think they should of waited 1 whole episode before they made Vincent start trying to win Cat back. But I guess thinking this is the last season they needed to rush things a bit.
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