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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 22, 2016 20:08:13 GMT -5
BBATB:
---Amen. I would have FAR rather have seen an ENTIRELY different Season 2 on my screen. I GET that the CW wanted different showrunners because of the dip in ratings in S1, but what they gave us essentially killed the best of the show for many viewers. Of all people to choose as showrunners. . . .
Sadly, ancient history. I do wish that they had gotten Sherri and Jenn back for an episode or more in S4. Sigh. I maintain that Kern's "vision" ran something precious into the ground. STILL, I watch because I still LOVE the characters that Jay and KK brought to life, even if Kern rather dirtied them up for me (and NOT in the good way!). So I will see BATB through to the end. But it sadly lessens the likelihood that BATB would be picked up by another network.
(I was watching the tail-end of a marathon of "Human Target" episodes and wondering HOW the writers so managed to bungle a particular relationship there when "Executive Producer: Brad Kern" popped up. I thought, "it figures. Is the man hired to run everything into the ground?" That show had serious potential.)
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Post by bbatb on Jun 25, 2016 4:11:57 GMT -5
BBATB: ---Amen. I would have FAR rather have seen an ENTIRELY different Season 2 on my screen. I GET that the CW wanted different showrunners because of the dip in ratings in S1, but what they gave us essentially killed the best of the show for many viewers. Of all people to choose as showrunners. . . . Sadly, ancient history. I do wish that they had gotten Sherri and Jenn back for an episode or more in S4. Sigh. I maintain that Kern's "vision" ran something precious into the ground. STILL, I watch because I still LOVE the characters that Jay and KK brought to life, even if Kern rather dirtied them up for me (and NOT in the good way!). So I will see BATB through to the end. But it sadly lessens the likelihood that BATB would be picked up by another network. (I was watching the tail-end of a marathon of "Human Target" episodes and wondering HOW the writers so managed to bungle a particular relationship there when "Executive Producer: Brad Kern" popped up. I thought, "it figures. Is the man hired to run everything into the ground?" That show had serious potential.) Completely agree. He now runs NCIS New Orleans, but I am not invested in any relationship in there, so I don't really care. I do start to hear some of his tired old phrases popping up and my mind goes immediately to OUR show and where exactly I have heard it before.  |
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 25, 2016 12:59:40 GMT -5
BBATB: ---Amen. I would have FAR rather have seen an ENTIRELY different Season 2 on my screen. I GET that the CW wanted different showrunners because of the dip in ratings in S1, but what they gave us essentially killed the best of the show for many viewers. Of all people to choose as showrunners. . . . Sadly, ancient history. I do wish that they had gotten Sherri and Jenn back for an episode or more in S4. Sigh. I maintain that Kern's "vision" ran something precious into the ground. STILL, I watch because I still LOVE the characters that Jay and KK brought to life, even if Kern rather dirtied them up for me (and NOT in the good way!). So I will see BATB through to the end. But it sadly lessens the likelihood that BATB would be picked up by another network. (I was watching the tail-end of a marathon of "Human Target" episodes and wondering HOW the writers so managed to bungle a particular relationship there when "Executive Producer: Brad Kern" popped up. I thought, "it figures. Is the man hired to run everything into the ground?" That show had serious potential.) Completely agree. He now runs NCIS New Orleans, but I am not invested in any relationship in there, so I don't really care. I do start to hear some of his tired old phrases popping up and my mind goes immediately to OUR show and where exactly I have heard it before. Without a doubt it is regrettable that Brad Kern took over the helm in S2. I do wonder how much of S1's magic was due to Jennifer and Sherri vs. Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson. Kelly and Brian wrote many of my most favorite episodes from Smallville, so I have much respect for them. Kelly said their run as showrunners in BATB S1 was always meant to be temporary to get the show on its feet, however it's really a shame they didn't stay on. For a Romance Genre type of show, which really is what BATB was and is suppose to be, Kern was obviously the wrong guy. Now with the show in its final season, its really sad to think of all the potential the show had at the end of S1. There are so many ways the story could have gone. The TPTB had something special, but didn't know what to do with it. Their edict to attract the male audience failed miserably in S2. While Kern promised fans a return to what they wanted in S3, I just don't think he's capable of creating the kind of dark romantic angst that Sherri & Jennifer and/or Brian & Kelly could. If the TPTB wanted a "do over", they should have booted out Kern and brought in someone else for S3. We can lament the would have, could have, should haves all we want, but it is what it is. I'm still optimistic about what we've gotten in S4 so far. |
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Post by bbatb on Jun 25, 2016 13:11:48 GMT -5
Completely agree. He now runs NCIS New Orleans, but I am not invested in any relationship in there, so I don't really care. I do start to hear some of his tired old phrases popping up and my mind goes immediately to OUR show and where exactly I have heard it before. Without a doubt it is regrettable that Brad Kern took over the helm in S2. I do wonder how much of S1's magic was due to Jennifer and Sherri vs. Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson. Kelly and Brian wrote many of my most favorite episodes from Smallville, so I have much respect for them. Kelly said their run as showrunners in BATB S1 was always meant to be temporary to get the show on its feet, however it's really a shame they didn't stay on. For a Romance Genre type of show, which really is what BATB was and is suppose to be, Kern was obviously the wrong guy. Now with the show in its final season, its really sad to think of all the potential the show had at the end of S1. There are so many ways the story could have gone. The TPTB had something special, but didn't know what to do with it. Their edict to attract the male audience failed miserably in S2. While Kern promised fans a return to what they wanted in S3, I just don't think he's capable of creating the kind of dark romantic angst that Sherri & Jennifer and/or Brian & Kelly could. If the TPTB wanted a "do over", they should have booted out Kern and brought in someone else for S3. We can lament the would have, could have, should haves all we want, but it is what it is. I'm still optimistic about what we've gotten in S4 so far. You are right: no sense crying over spilled milk. It is done and dusted and no wishing will change a thing. We are still discussing it as a means to vent, I guess. But isn't it remarkable how passionate we are discussing every detail of every episode - past or present? For me, this is a first, since I have never been part of a forum and actually NEVER felt this 'often too serious' connection to a tv show. I LOVED the 80's series and watched it several times, but the level of passion for this show is totally different. And now I am going to re-watch 404. |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 27, 2016 17:03:41 GMT -5
And that is the thing--Season 4 WILL get re-watches for me. So we are already better with this season than last.
A post in another thread got me thinking--THAT is what WOULD save the show: Pull a Fringe. With Fringe, you had each season be something completely different BECAUSE of the whole Alternate Universe issue. S3 went back and forth between the universes AND was great fun for all of the cast members, as they got to play their doppelgangers that had led COMPLETELY different lives (for the most part). And then becaues Peter steps into the Machine, he gets seemingly "erased" from history, causing a COMPLETE RESET of BOTH universes, since he was then supposed to have died as a boy in both universes. BUT due to the LOVE of his significant other, Olivia, he basically is dreamed back into reality. So he is there moving forward, AND Olivia inexplicably gets her memories back from the other timeline.
And Fringe was able to get a final shortened Season 5 ALL because they did ONE EPISODE in the "future" alternate universe in Season 4 that was intriguing enough to get a renewal, based on the S5 taking place in the future alternate universe. (And for those that have seen episode 405 or at least know its premise, YOU KNOW where I am going with this one.)
So I could see BATB getting another season in the alternate universe. Would also explain if you couldn't hire everyone back--people could have been transferred, etc. or crop back up when least expected. (Although I think they would be smart enough to have Tori have been killed off by her father in the alternate universe!) Also would be intriguing to see if Liam was still around, etc.
I certainly think we would get fans back, especially if this Vincent was more feral, complicated, less humanized due to all the fugue situations that he has been through. Particularly if Bob became re-involved moving forward. And wtih Vincent knowing about the head of Muirfield now but not wanting to hunt down and cold-bloodedly kill him like he blindly did under Bob. Seeing Vincent and Catherine fall in love all over again despite what all has happened would be fascinating, particularly in seeing how Vincent has changed once again due to the fugues and NOT having had Catherine "humanize" him. I mean, Vincent in S1 was VERY bitter at what his life had become, and that is BEFORE having to be basically caged due to the fugue thing that occurred. After all, Vincent and JT would never have had access to Vanessa's notebook and her supposed "cure" for the fugue states. (Plus, wonder if Cat's adoptive Dad Chandler is still alive in this universe?) Would be fascinating to watch. And would really allow the Showrunners to take into account what fans did or did not like in the VinCat journey of falling in love.
I know, I know. Wishful thinking. But would still be wonderful television viewing, at least in my opinion. WOnder if after 405 airs there could be a campaign for THAT kind of S5? I think that would get FAR more participation by viewers.
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Post by pippin on Jun 27, 2016 20:17:35 GMT -5
Without a doubt it is regrettable that Brad Kern took over the helm in S2. I do wonder how much of S1's magic was due to Jennifer and Sherri vs. Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson. Kelly and Brian wrote many of my most favorite episodes from Smallville, so I have much respect for them. Kelly said their run as showrunners in BATB S1 was always meant to be temporary to get the show on its feet, however it's really a shame they didn't stay on. For a Romance Genre type of show, which really is what BATB was and is suppose to be, Kern was obviously the wrong guy. Now with the show in its final season, its really sad to think of all the potential the show had at the end of S1. There are so many ways the story could have gone. The TPTB had something special, but didn't know what to do with it. Their edict to attract the male audience failed miserably in S2. While Kern promised fans a return to what they wanted in S3, I just don't think he's capable of creating the kind of dark romantic angst that Sherri & Jennifer and/or Brian & Kelly could. If the TPTB wanted a "do over", they should have booted out Kern and brought in someone else for S3. We can lament the would have, could have, should haves all we want, but it is what it is. I'm still optimistic about what we've gotten in S4 so far. Somehow I think if Season 1 hadn't lost so many viewers that Kelly and Brian's showrunning tenure would not have been temporary. While I think some of the Season 1 problems were due to the network / studio insisting on it being a procedural rather than a serial, I'm not sure how great Kelly and Brian are as showrunners either. Much as I love several of KK's scenes in the Alex arc, what they did with Vincent during that arc seemed to ruin the "epic" love story for many and then there was the baffling Vincent telling Cat that just 2 years before AMP, he was trying to have sex with another woman or telling JT that he wasn't going to give up his humanity for anyone? S1 also had the inconsistent V. abilities, the convenient rapid healing, and the failure to establish a good mythology or mystery. Austin mentioned Season 1 being mismanaged and I read a comment from someone who worked on the show who said that the scripts were late and the network had given the show as much time off as they could. I'm no fan of Smallville's Clois or its Lois Lane but from what I saw, under Kelly and Brian, Sville didn't do such a great job with Lois and Clark. How do you let Clark and Lana kiss on the roof of the Daily Planet, Chloe be the one to say Superman in the finale, or leave Lana as Clark's great love. Lois and Clark go to a BnB supposedly to consummate their relationship but manage not to have sex, Lois would rather answer the phone than have sex with Clark, Clark has to see himself in the future with Lois before telling her he loves her in the present, when Clark really goes to a parallel world where his dad is still alive and Lois asks him what happened, he says to his fiancee, "nothing." And then there were Clark's wedding vows where he calls Lois his companion and he never says the L word and 7 years later, they still haven't managed to get married. I've seen more than a few Smallville viewers who vowed never to watch anything that Kelly and Brian were a part of after what they did to Sville, and that wasn't coming from Clana fans. I haven't read that Kern was told to attract more males viewers, but was told to expand the audience and the direction of the show. Beauty season 1 actually had the fourth most male viewers behind Arrow, SPN and VD. I think the network wanted to attract younger viewers overall. |
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Post by missingalias on Jun 28, 2016 1:20:03 GMT -5
I agree to above and I also think that partly reason of not attracting younger viewers is unfortunately the title. Beauty and the beast didn't appear to me at all when browsing the TV listing. It's too classic a tale and not as appearing to new viewers as arrow or such. I just assumed it boring even before watching and only started watching once I accidentally channel surfed to a VinCat scene. Then i was hooked. I can't believe I'm the only one. |
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 28, 2016 3:08:33 GMT -5
pippin - you're correct in that Kern never said he was specifically told to attract more males, just to expand the audience. I was going more by what Jay said in an interview about S2. Something to the effect that its now the kind of show that girls can have their guys join them and they'll enjoy it too. If TPTB wanted to attract a younger audience, why hire a guy that's older than the previous showrunners and very close if not out of the rating demo age group himself? To me, the changes made in S2 to have it be much more action oriented, especially during the beast of the week arc, seemed to be done specifically to attract more males. As a guy, I liked that part of the S2. Regardless, S2 failed to expand the audience in anyway and they simply lost more viewers, the whole thing backfired. Sad, but water under the bridge.
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