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Post by evanarose on Jul 4, 2016 20:32:56 GMT -5
I just watched the episode again! It's strange normally when it comes to tv/movie being darker...I go for the hills lol but this episode is addictive! I don't know if it's only me, probably I'm in the minority here as it sounds insane, the scene I watch more is the end rather than the shower scene lol! Don't get me wrong that scene is pleasant too...but the emotional chemistry in the last scene is just awww! And it's such a breath of fresh air to see Vincent say he won't let Cat go & not come across in a controlling way either; because in the past Vincent would've been like your life would be easier without me & he'd try to push Cat away! I guess it puts more significance in the episode prior that Vincent is really better off with Cat or better said, they both need each other. But Jays acting just made me melt lol especially when Vincent said, 'After what I did, after what I became..' Then after seeing the episode & it reminding me of season 1- it makes me wanna rewatch those episodes again! And to see how far vincat has gone since then!
I think what really drew me in this episode is seeing Vincent really beast out (not just a little) lol how weird is to say that..I mean it has been awhile since we seen V really beast out but at the same time, not beast like in the same way as the past. Like the plot is tragic but it's also good drama at the same time! Of course, I didn't want Vincent to end up killing hill in the end (rather hill come to his scenes)...but to see the dynamic in Vincents character & Jays acting in saying, 'You have no idea what you are dealing with, are you?' I guess because this time around, I felt more sympathetic towards Vincent with JTs explanation & seeing in previous episodes how in control he was & how he has changed. So it's more drawing to see the dynamic in his character this time around! And in the scene with Fuller as well, seeing Jays acting.
I'm not sure if I agree this is the worst they been through...When he hurt Cat THAT was bad, when she had to shot him as well! And alot has happened between them...I don't even wanna go to who you know *cough* beginning with T. I'm sure there was more but I need to rewatch episodes...probably give the T arc a miss lol! I'm wondering since they know Vincent is a doctor whether they would take into account, there should be good in him having saved peoples lives. If he was THAT bad a terrorist, he could've done a heck lot more...but I know it doesn't look good based on evidence. I wonder how this series will end actually. Hopefully that they can have a normal relationship, not in hiding anymore. It'll be good if they also included flashback scenes with all the good times vincat had together at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 2:45:19 GMT -5
bbatb AlisongladaboutSeason4 I said that I understand Hill's behaviour not that I'm ok with this. Hill was not so glad of the situation inherited from Agent Russo from the beginning, through his words you can see that he has spent most of his life to gain a good career in the DHS and to protect his family from the bad things that could come from his work. All of a sudden he is investigated, could loose his position, could die (killed by the beast hunter or by the DHS as well) and his family is in danger too... that was too much and just freaked out (and this is human for me). He couldn't rely on DHS and his life, career and family depends on VinCat... but in what way? Yes maybe without VinCat DHS won't have the chance to capture cold blood criminals, but all of them are not anyway near his person, he is more concerned that with VinCat he is in danger. And he thought that his life would be better with VinCat off his way. Plus I put the word innocent between "" because I don't think he is really an innocent but he is not even the big bad. I think that Fuller is dead because when Hill is questioning Vincent, he told him that Fuller was a collateral victim but his intent was only to kill Vincent. So Fuller is dead because of Vincent even if not killed directly by Vincent. Or maybe I don't know Fuller managed to save himself...
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Post by bbatb on Jul 5, 2016 5:39:00 GMT -5
@luna76 this series has always polarized opinions and if that is your take on this episode it is perfectly fine with me. I am just saying and saying it again that even if you are scared or freaked out - like you call it - IMO it can not be called HUMAN nor can it be justification to commit MULTIPLE murders. A cold-blooded murderer - for ME is inhuman! Hill might not have been the big bad that is yet to be revealed, but he was certainly also a very bad guy.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 5, 2016 9:24:23 GMT -5
To me, it says everything about the current quality of the writing that there CAN be so many differing opinions of Hill. Not having seen the episode yet, I can only go off comments. BUT I would add this: in the US, the definition of a "Serial Killer" is to deliberately murder 3 or more people. And since Hill mentions that Fuller is "collateral damage," it sounds like Hill had Fuller killed as well. And to turn against the very people that did EVERYTHING to save his own family. . . . So rather than just "snapping," it seems to me like Hill very coldly and calculated that his CAREER was worth more to him than people's lives, and his "family" is just an excuse. BUT because Vincent has met this very family, Vincent will feel very guilty for a long time to come undoubtedly.
As to the Hill angle: WOW, the writers actually managed to totally surprise me. ALTHOUGH, in 405, you can now see it coming from that last Hill scene--he makes it clear that it is really ALL about HIM and that he seems downright disappointed that they lived. And is not willing to make any real promises to help them--it is just about his career. (I just finished reading the book "One Year After" about an EMP pulse where the bureaucrat assigned to oversee the district is FINE with killing off innocent civilians in order to keep his job, position and perks. His "justification" is that any other person assigned would have done the same thing to "restore order." So Hill is of the SAME caliber.)
I DON'T feel sorry for Hill at this time. YES, he has a family. But how do you want to raise your child? To believe that it is fine to murder people that get in your way? And how does that even help keep his family safe? If the bounty hunters still want information or to see what DHS knows, they would still off his family in a second without anyone around to put themselves in danger to save his family. PLUS, that is SUPPOSED TO BE HILL'S JOB. He took an OATH to save people in VinCat's situation from terrorists, and the first inkling of a threat in his direction and he is willing to BECOME the cold-hearted terrorist himself?
And it almost sounds like Hill wanted Vincent to "beast out" mainly to "justify" his killing. Like Vincent is somehow little more than an animal when in beast state. So Hill can think he is not killing another human being. Just wow. The fact that Hill would kill Cat's final remaining FAMILY, including her best friend who is a police CAPTAIN.
So didn't see this coming. Because usually the agents presented on BATB are like Landon and Knox or are dumb and dumbest and cannon fodder. Really want to see this episode, because just the comments alone are getting me all riled up!
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 5, 2016 9:37:33 GMT -5
bbatb AlisongladaboutSeason4 I said that I understand Hill's behaviour not that I'm ok with this. Hill was not so glad of the situation inherited from Agent Russo from the beginning, through his words you can see that he has spent most of his life to gain a good career in the DHS and to protect his family from the bad things that could come from his work. All of a sudden he is investigated, could loose his position, could die (killed by the beast hunter or by the DHS as well) and his family is in danger too... that was too much and just freaked out (and this is human for me). He couldn't rely on DHS and his life, career and family depends on VinCat... but in what way? Yes maybe without VinCat DHS won't have the chance to capture cold blood criminals, but all of them are not anyway near his person, he is more concerned that with VinCat he is in danger. And he thought that his life would be better with VinCat off his way. Plus I put the word innocent between "" because I don't think he is really an innocent but he is not even the big bad. I think that Fuller is dead because when Hill is questioning Vincent, he told him that Fuller was a collateral victim but his intent was only to kill Vincent. So Fuller is dead because of Vincent even if not killed directly by Vincent. Or maybe I don't know Fuller managed to save himself... I know what you are saying about Hill telling Vincent that Fuller was collateral damage but I think he meant Fuller getting injured not killed. Fuller was definitely not dead when Vincent left him. I think that was the point he tried to make about Vincent that, although there was no love lost between Fuller and Vincent, the latter could not just leave him to bleed to death. He had to save him. It was actually Fuller who told Vincent to go and save himself.
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Post by Jewels on Jul 5, 2016 9:42:34 GMT -5
Yes please
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 5, 2016 9:45:11 GMT -5
I like the way you edited out the interruptions, leaving in just the sexy time. BTW, Vincent says "how about that time right after we said I do". I was wondering if that was in reference to their honeymoon or their wedding night? I assumed it was their wedding night, which made me somewhat annoyed that we never got to see it! LOL. Yeah, the best things happen off screen away from the prying eyes of the viewers. Remember when Catherine said that they made love on the roof? Well, WE did not get to see THAT either. Or the extra handcuff episode. Well, THAT might have been to hot for American screens. I think it's Cat who says the line about the moment just after we said our 'I dos' as Vincent says, 'Yes, that moment I could live in forever', which was really sweet. I must admit that I took it to literally mean the moment just after they got married as they looked so happy and free from any worries or problems, celebrating with their friends on the rooftop.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 5, 2016 13:59:13 GMT -5
Yeah, the best things happen off screen away from the prying eyes of the viewers. Remember when Catherine said that they made love on the roof? Well, WE did not get to see THAT either. Or the extra handcuff episode. Well, THAT might have been to hot for American screens. I think it's Cat who says the line about the moment just after we said our 'I dos' as Vincent says, 'Yes, that moment I could live in forever', which was really sweet. I must admit that I took it to literally mean the moment just after they got married as they looked so happy and free from any worries or problems, celebrating with their friends on the rooftop. You're correct in that it was Cat that said that line, not V. My memory was blurry, since I was just posting after having seen the episode once. I agree on the wedding vows scene. For me, it was one of the most touching scenes in S1, 2 or 3. But I felt like Cat might have also been referring to after the wedding, later that same night. bbatb - In retrospect, I think Catherine was referring to 301 as the time they made love on the rooftop, when she says that during a later ep in S3. So we kind of got to see that one. Recall the original 301 script called for them to tear off their clothes, which didn't really happen in the actual filming. Regardless, the 301 opening roof top scene was hot.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 5, 2016 14:04:31 GMT -5
But only if it's VinCat again. Or Catherine alone next time. (It's only fair for us guys that watch the show. ) I have a hunch if that shower set is used again, little Heather might be stealing it for some of her own fun time with Kyle, like she did with Cat's bedroom. JTnT, please no.
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Post by Jewels on Jul 5, 2016 17:02:40 GMT -5
What a wonderful comparison for s1 and ep 4.6 By Ginny Boynton
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 5, 2016 17:38:33 GMT -5
New CW preview promo:
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 5, 2016 17:40:56 GMT -5
VinCat shower scenes are the kind I do NOT mind AT ALL being repeated! THAT kind of repetition would never bother me! That irritated me to see one supposed fan's comment about NOT wanting another shower scene. The one in 217 was interrupted, so this scene is COMPLETELY different (and HOT, at least from the bit posted. Again, still grumbling about having to wait 2 MORE DAYS before I can see this episode in the US!).
And it is ABOUT TIME we get these kind of scenes. I mean, if you rachet up the death and drama and risk to VinCat, then amp up the VinCat romance goodies to compensate! Only fair, in my opinion.
I also like that although the S3 formula might still be present in theory, the outcome is QUITE better, more tied-together, and upping the romance AND VinCat CLOSENESS that has been missing for some time. Other than 405, you don't have VinCat disputing that they are in this together or that Vincent should leave, sacrifice their relationship, etc. They are committed to moving forward, somehow or someway, with one another.
And the shock of actually having to investigate ONE enemy only to suddenly have Hill (and DHS as a result) turn AGAINST them when least expected!
I am assuming that we will learn in a later episode if Fuller survived, because Hill would be FOOLISH to have left Fuller alive to tell how Vincent tried to save him after someone else had set them up.
And now, I realize that it was obvious that Hill was a bad guy from the point that HE was the one to set up the meeting at the school with the assassin. That was the tell-tale sign, coupled with 405. But you have to love that VinCat DID NOT pick up on this when dealing with Hill, as they would not think someone like him would turn on them so easily, ESPECIALLY after what Vincent did to save his family. But with Vincent's history, I don't see any easy possible way out to clear his name this time. Not with the other DHS agent/director already having died (plus the OTHER agent being killed by Liam last year in a doctor's coat like Vincent's).
And the Bounty Hunter(s) are still out there as well. They have DEFINITELY ramped up the drama and plot with this episode! MUCH better put together and less filler than S3! Me likey likey. Or at least I WILL when I finally get to SEE this episode on Thursday!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 5, 2016 17:51:14 GMT -5
What a wonderful comparison for s1 and ep 4.6 By Ginny Boynton Nice! But I really think it's comparing S1 and 405, not 406.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 5, 2016 17:52:55 GMT -5
Thanks BeastieBoy for that promo! I'll take WHATEVER I can get of the episode, given the obvious intensity of the episode overall, with all its reveals.
And hey, LOVE the humor in this scene (although Heather just gets made out as a flake. Particularly this season. She is only the comic-relief at this point, and I DO think her character rather deserves more as Cat's only remaining family. I miss the deeper sister scenes that were still present between them even in S3.). But Vincent complaining about living with JT--I'm with JT on that one when he said "hurtful." I mean, JT sacrificed his life completely to be at Vincent's side. (But I really think Vincent was not completely serious on this one, although he DID tell JT that he was NOT moving into the boathouse at the end of 212.)
But then again, I like the implications of Vincent's mini-rant regarding JT as it shows he clearly ENJOYS living with his wife and has no regrets there but doesn't like having to share couples' time with JT and the others! (And wonder what they ever did with Vincent's room-set at the Gentlemen's Club that we saw in S1. I guess they only kept it around for that episode. But you would THINK that huge building would have MUCH more space then what is portrayed onscreen! I mean, they previously had JT and Tess sleeping on a pull-out sofa, and I never understood that given that Vincent AT LEAST had a bed and room there.
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Post by Jewels on Jul 5, 2016 18:07:37 GMT -5
What a wonderful comparison for s1 and ep 4.6 By Ginny Boynton Nice! But I really think it's comparing S1 and 405, not 406.
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