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[jefferen]

Jul 1, 2014 13:30:42 GMT -5 VinCat❤Destined said:

^ Cooper and Levin will only be consultants in season 3..no word whether they will oversee scripts and have any say in the final product. So right there it closes the door in a way.

2. The duo wrote the SAME amount of episodes this season as last

3. It's true that they created this version of BATB and no one can truly write them like they can.

I think season 3 will be a lot like season 1. If the last 6 episodes of season 2 are any indications.

Whatever it is or whatever the decide to do for S3 I hope it pulls up the ratings! Cuz I am not ready to say goodbye 2 BATB after S3. There is still so much potential for vincat and this show.  

I have to be honest sometimes I get a bit frustrated with the show and some of the thing it brings us, but I'd never stop watching the show. The only way I'd ever stop watching this show is if that undeniable pull between jaystin suddenly wasnt there anymore. I am invested in that chemistry, I dont care what the writers give us. Did I like the Tori&Gabe arcs and the "cheating"? No. Was I happy w/ some of the choices that vincat made together and separately, no, but I never based whether I was gonna watch this show based on that. I will take whatever the writers want to give me bc that chemistry is so strong, that they can do just about anything w/ it and it work. Yes, we didnt have alot of character development this season 4 Cat, but I think shes finally coming full circle. I think if they knew back in the winter if we were gonna get a S3 they might have mad Vincat work harder to get together, and wouldve given Cat an opportunity to find herself, but bc they didnt know I think everything was smooshed together, and planned that vincat would reunite quicker bc ultimately that what most beasties want.  

I feel like so many people are comparing S2 to S1. I feel like thats  comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different seasons! LIke I said was I happy with some of the writing in S2 no, but I never stopped watching. And I understood for the most part exactly why the writers wrote things and explored the things they did. I think though with the amount of time that episodes and how many episodes are in a season, its hard to fit everything that every single beastie wants to see.   Even down to the small insignificant stuff.  IMO, I dont watch alot of regular tv, I usually watch reruns. BATB is the only new show I watch live or even follow. I am invested in this show and the actors.  There is something about it that just pulls me in, I attribute the jaystin chemistry and ALL the actors, I am passionate about this show so when it I have found myself noticing a lot more, plot holes, continuity issues, etc sometimes small, sometimes big, and I think a lot of us are like that bc we  love this show that much and we critique it bc we all have this specific idea and image in our heads on how BATB should be written and portrayed onscreen. Plus if you look at it realistically, if we concentrated on ever small little detail we'd never get through an episode. But honestly when I look at it especially comparing S1 to S2, I loved S1 for many reasons, but how long can we sit there and watch VinCat 1.0 and everything they did in S1, I think we'd get bored if played S2 out how they played S1 IMHO.  I would probbably be complaining that all Vincat do is have sex(or as Tess put it, be in there honeymoon stage) hide from Muirfield, and dream about wanting a future.  As much as I love the vincat feels, I'd probably be pulling my hair out by now. So, I enjoyed S2 bc it was so different from S1. 

Also I want to comment on the EPIC love that Vincat is.  I know alot of people hated the triangles, and cheating, and how vincat acted towards each other 4 most of S2.  But to me I still consider their love EPIC, soul mates, no matter what happened in S2.  I agree w/ the writers when the pulled them apart, even though it pained me. Vincat did get together rather quickly, and they both know that there was a pull between them, but I think a lot of them getting together in S1 to me IMHO was based on just feeling that pull and connection, but not really understanding the depth of what the pull meant and really realizing that they are destined to be together. By end of S1, I dont think either of them fully realized that. Now this is just my opinion. Coming into S2 wen they were pulled apart, I think V was more w/ Cat out of obligation rather than love even though he felt the pull.  And then with everything that happened between his memories getting erased, everything was programmed into him, and then Cat being who she was and V battling his inner Man v beast, I think he was a bit relived IMO when they broke up at first bc it gave him the chance to explore who he is and started questioning even if Cat n him were actually more.  And yes, I didmt like Tori, but she had an affect on and I think he needed to experience that and explore it to find out really if thats where he belongs rather than w/ Cat. He questioned everything. IMO The same thing w/ Cat, her belief that her in V were destined was shook to the core after their break up and she questioned everything.  I think she had to be w/ Gabe to see if that really was her destiny. Any non beast really, but he was the one who was close at the time.  

Once V realized that Cat was his destiny, and yes, I wouldve loved from him to be able to shove Tori to the curb, but again thats another story, I that was the turning point. And he did everything in his power to become worthy of her again.  Since then and vincat BOTH finally realizing truly realizing that they are destined, they have gone full speed ahead. They need to be apart to figure out that they were truly destined bc they got together so quickly in S1 and to me more based on they needed each other on a different level than truly just love. IF I compare VinCat 1.0 to VinCat 3.0, these last 7 episodes or so, VinCat to me wins hands down.  I feel like VinCat 3.0 truly knows wat they both want, together and separately, they are more in tune with each other, and are on the same page and most importantly know that they truly are destined.  During S1, I didnt feel anything of those feelings towards VinCat, and order to get where VinCat is now, I think they had to go through all that, otherwise IMO I dont think they wouldve grown.   But I dont think IMO bc someone cheats, strays or something else doesnt mean that a couple isnt epic.  We all make mistakes and are all flawed characters, and if we werent or they werent I dont think we'd have an interesting story. 

Sorry for the rant, just had to get this out there! LOL

[rose]

Jul 1, 2014 14:40:59 GMT -5 jefferen said:

Jul 1, 2014 13:30:42 GMT -5 VinCat❤Destined said:

^ Cooper and Levin will only be consultants in season 3..no word whether they will oversee scripts and have any say in the final product. So right there it closes the door in a way.

2. The duo wrote the SAME amount of episodes this season as last

3. It's true that they created this version of BATB and no one can truly write them like they can.

I think season 3 will be a lot like season 1. If the last 6 episodes of season 2 are any indications.

Whatever it is or whatever the decide to do for S3 I hope it pulls up the ratings! Cuz I am not ready to say goodbye 2 BATB after S3. There is still so much potential for vincat and this show.  

I have to be honest sometimes I get a bit frustrated with the show and some of the thing it brings us, but I'd never stop watching the show. The only way I'd ever stop watching this show is if that undeniable pull between jaystin suddenly wasnt there anymore. I am invested in that chemistry, I dont care what the writers give us. Did I like the Tori&Gabe arcs and the "cheating"? No. Was I happy w/ some of the choices that vincat made together and separately, no, but I never based whether I was gonna watch this show based on that. I will take whatever the writers want to give me bc that chemistry is so strong, that they can do just about anything w/ it and it work. Yes, we didnt have alot of character development this season 4 Cat, but I think shes finally coming full circle. I think if they knew back in the winter if we were gonna get a S3 they might have mad Vincat work harder to get together, and wouldve given Cat an opportunity to find herself, but bc they didnt know I think everything was smooshed together, and planned that vincat would reunite quicker bc ultimately that what most beasties want.  

I feel like so many people are comparing S2 to S1. I feel like thats  comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different seasons! LIke I said was I happy with some of the writing in S2 no, but I never stopped watching. And I understood for the most part exactly why the writers wrote things and explored the things they did. I think though with the amount of time that episodes and how many episodes are in a season, its hard to fit everything that every single beastie wants to see.   Even down to the small insignificant stuff.  IMO, I dont watch alot of regular tv, I usually watch reruns. BATB is the only new show I watch live or even follow. I am invested in this show and the actors.  There is something about it that just pulls me in, I attribute the jaystin chemistry and ALL the actors, I am passionate about this show so when it I have found myself noticing a lot more, plot holes, continuity issues, etc sometimes small, sometimes big, and I think a lot of us are like that bc we  love this show that much and we critique it bc we all have this specific idea and image in our heads on how BATB should be written and portrayed onscreen. Plus if you look at it realistically, if we concentrated on ever small little detail we'd never get through an episode. But honestly when I look at it especially comparing S1 to S2, I loved S1 for many reasons, but how long can we sit there and watch VinCat 1.0 and everything they did in S1, I think we'd get bored if played S2 out how they played S1 IMHO.  I would probbably be complaining that all Vincat do is have sex(or as Tess put it, be in there honeymoon stage) hide from Muirfield, and dream about wanting a future.  As much as I love the vincat feels, I'd probably be pulling my hair out by now. So, I enjoyed S2 bc it was so different from S1. 

Also I want to comment on the EPIC love that Vincat is.  I know alot of people hated the triangles, and cheating, and how vincat acted towards each other 4 most of S2.  But to me I still consider their love EPIC, soul mates, no matter what happened in S2.  I agree w/ the writers when the pulled them apart, even though it pained me. Vincat did get together rather quickly, and they both know that there was a pull between them, but I think a lot of them getting together in S1 to me IMHO was based on just feeling that pull and connection, but not really understanding the depth of what the pull meant and really realizing that they are destined to be together. By end of S1, I dont think either of them fully realized that. Now this is just my opinion. Coming into S2 wen they were pulled apart, I think V was more w/ Cat out of obligation rather than love even though he felt the pull.  And then with everything that happened between his memories getting erased, everything was programmed into him, and then Cat being who she was and V battling his inner Man v beast, I think he was a bit relived IMO when they broke up at first bc it gave him the chance to explore who he is and started questioning even if Cat n him were actually more.  And yes, I didmt like Tori, but she had an affect on and I think he needed to experience that and explore it to find out really if thats where he belongs rather than w/ Cat. He questioned everything. IMO The same thing w/ Cat, her belief that her in V were destined was shook to the core after their break up and she questioned everything.  I think she had to be w/ Gabe to see if that really was her destiny. Any non beast really, but he was the one who was close at the time.  

Once V realized that Cat was his destiny, and yes, I wouldve loved from him to be able to shove Tori to the curb, but again thats another story, I that was the turning point. And he did everything in his power to become worthy of her again.  Since then and vincat BOTH finally realizing truly realizing that they are destined, they have gone full speed ahead. They need to be apart to figure out that they were truly destined bc they got together so quickly in S1 and to me more based on they needed each other on a different level than truly just love. IF I compare VinCat 1.0 to VinCat 3.0, these last 7 episodes or so, VinCat to me wins hands down.  I feel like VinCat 3.0 truly knows wat they both want, together and separately, they are more in tune with each other, and are on the same page and most importantly know that they truly are destined.  During S1, I didnt feel anything of those feelings towards VinCat, and order to get where VinCat is now, I think they had to go through all that, otherwise IMO I dont think they wouldve grown.   But I dont think IMO bc someone cheats, strays or something else doesnt mean that a couple isnt epic.  We all make mistakes and are all flawed characters, and if we werent or they werent I dont think we'd have an interesting story. 

Sorry for the rant, just had to get this out there! LOL

I completely agree with your point of view.

[hopefulromantic]

Jul 1, 2014 14:40:59 GMT -5 jefferen said:

Jul 1, 2014 13:30:42 GMT -5 VinCat❤Destined said:

^ Cooper and Levin will only be consultants in season 3..no word whether they will oversee scripts and have any say in the final product. So right there it closes the door in a way.

2. The duo wrote the SAME amount of episodes this season as last

3. It's true that they created this version of BATB and no one can truly write them like they can.

I think season 3 will be a lot like season 1. If the last 6 episodes of season 2 are any indications.

Whatever it is or whatever the decide to do for S3 I hope it pulls up the ratings! Cuz I am not ready to say goodbye 2 BATB after S3. There is still so much potential for vincat and this show.  

I have to be honest sometimes I get a bit frustrated with the show and some of the thing it brings us, but I'd never stop watching the show. The only way I'd ever stop watching this show is if that undeniable pull between jaystin suddenly wasnt there anymore. I am invested in that chemistry, I dont care what the writers give us. Did I like the Tori&Gabe arcs and the "cheating"? No. Was I happy w/ some of the choices that vincat made together and separately, no, but I never based whether I was gonna watch this show based on that. I will take whatever the writers want to give me bc that chemistry is so strong, that they can do just about anything w/ it and it work. Yes, we didnt have alot of character development this season 4 Cat, but I think shes finally coming full circle. I think if they knew back in the winter if we were gonna get a S3 they might have mad Vincat work harder to get together, and wouldve given Cat an opportunity to find herself, but bc they didnt know I think everything was smooshed together, and planned that vincat would reunite quicker bc ultimately that what most beasties want.  

I feel like so many people are comparing S2 to S1. I feel like thats  comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different seasons! LIke I said was I happy with some of the writing in S2 no, but I never stopped watching. And I understood for the most part exactly why the writers wrote things and explored the things they did. I think though with the amount of time that episodes and how many episodes are in a season, its hard to fit everything that every single beastie wants to see.   Even down to the small insignificant stuff.  IMO, I dont watch alot of regular tv, I usually watch reruns. BATB is the only new show I watch live or even follow. I am invested in this show and the actors.  There is something about it that just pulls me in, I attribute the jaystin chemistry and ALL the actors, I am passionate about this show so when it I have found myself noticing a lot more, plot holes, continuity issues, etc sometimes small, sometimes big, and I think a lot of us are like that bc we  love this show that much and we critique it bc we all have this specific idea and image in our heads on how BATB should be written and portrayed onscreen. Plus if you look at it realistically, if we concentrated on ever small little detail we'd never get through an episode. But honestly when I look at it especially comparing S1 to S2, I loved S1 for many reasons, but how long can we sit there and watch VinCat 1.0 and everything they did in S1, I think we'd get bored if played S2 out how they played S1 IMHO.  I would probbably be complaining that all Vincat do is have sex(or as Tess put it, be in there honeymoon stage) hide from Muirfield, and dream about wanting a future.  As much as I love the vincat feels, I'd probably be pulling my hair out by now. So, I enjoyed S2 bc it was so different from S1. 

Also I want to comment on the EPIC love that Vincat is.  I know alot of people hated the triangles, and cheating, and how vincat acted towards each other 4 most of S2.  But to me I still consider their love EPIC, soul mates, no matter what happened in S2.  I agree w/ the writers when the pulled them apart, even though it pained me. Vincat did get together rather quickly, and they both know that there was a pull between them, but I think a lot of them getting together in S1 to me IMHO was based on just feeling that pull and connection, but not really understanding the depth of what the pull meant and really realizing that they are destined to be together. By end of S1, I dont think either of them fully realized that. Now this is just my opinion. Coming into S2 wen they were pulled apart, I think V was more w/ Cat out of obligation rather than love even though he felt the pull.  And then with everything that happened between his memories getting erased, everything was programmed into him, and then Cat being who she was and V battling his inner Man v beast, I think he was a bit relived IMO when they broke up at first bc it gave him the chance to explore who he is and started questioning even if Cat n him were actually more.  And yes, I didmt like Tori, but she had an affect on and I think he needed to experience that and explore it to find out really if thats where he belongs rather than w/ Cat. He questioned everything. IMO The same thing w/ Cat, her belief that her in V were destined was shook to the core after their break up and she questioned everything.  I think she had to be w/ Gabe to see if that really was her destiny. Any non beast really, but he was the one who was close at the time.  

Once V realized that Cat was his destiny, and yes, I wouldve loved from him to be able to shove Tori to the curb, but again thats another story, I that was the turning point. And he did everything in his power to become worthy of her again.  Since then and vincat BOTH finally realizing truly realizing that they are destined, they have gone full speed ahead. They need to be apart to figure out that they were truly destined bc they got together so quickly in S1 and to me more based on they needed each other on a different level than truly just love. IF I compare VinCat 1.0 to VinCat 3.0, these last 7 episodes or so, VinCat to me wins hands down.  I feel like VinCat 3.0 truly knows wat they both want, together and separately, they are more in tune with each other, and are on the same page and most importantly know that they truly are destined.  During S1, I didnt feel anything of those feelings towards VinCat, and order to get where VinCat is now, I think they had to go through all that, otherwise IMO I dont think they wouldve grown.   But I dont think IMO bc someone cheats, strays or something else doesnt mean that a couple isnt epic.  We all make mistakes and are all flawed characters, and if we werent or they werent I dont think we'd have an interesting story. 

Sorry for the rant, just had to get this out there! LOL

OK, I agree with everything you said wholeheartedly... EXCEPT the part about complaining about too much "S".  IMO there is no such thing, and I dare them to prove me wrong. Like you, I love everything about the show in both seasons, even the unpleasant parts (triangles, etc) that makes the good parts good and makes it epic. But I disagree that there can be too much in the feels department. It doesn't have to be the actual sex act. Like I've said before, a scene like the one at the end of OFD in the hostel is perfectly acceptable. I don't have to see skin and detail (I wouldn't complain, though!), but more warm-fuzzies and make-your-heart-melt moments is and always will be welcome by me!

[jefferen]

Jul 1, 2014 16:05:45 GMT -5 hopefulromantic said:

Jul 1, 2014 14:40:59 GMT -5 jefferen said:

Whatever it is or whatever the decide to do for S3 I hope it pulls up the ratings! Cuz I am not ready to say goodbye 2 BATB after S3. There is still so much potential for vincat and this show.  

I have to be honest sometimes I get a bit frustrated with the show and some of the thing it brings us, but I'd never stop watching the show. The only way I'd ever stop watching this show is if that undeniable pull between jaystin suddenly wasnt there anymore. I am invested in that chemistry, I dont care what the writers give us. Did I like the Tori&Gabe arcs and the "cheating"? No. Was I happy w/ some of the choices that vincat made together and separately, no, but I never based whether I was gonna watch this show based on that. I will take whatever the writers want to give me bc that chemistry is so strong, that they can do just about anything w/ it and it work. Yes, we didnt have alot of character development this season 4 Cat, but I think shes finally coming full circle. I think if they knew back in the winter if we were gonna get a S3 they might have mad Vincat work harder to get together, and wouldve given Cat an opportunity to find herself, but bc they didnt know I think everything was smooshed together, and planned that vincat would reunite quicker bc ultimately that what most beasties want.  

I feel like so many people are comparing S2 to S1. I feel like thats  comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different seasons! LIke I said was I happy with some of the writing in S2 no, but I never stopped watching. And I understood for the most part exactly why the writers wrote things and explored the things they did. I think though with the amount of time that episodes and how many episodes are in a season, its hard to fit everything that every single beastie wants to see.   Even down to the small insignificant stuff.  IMO, I dont watch alot of regular tv, I usually watch reruns. BATB is the only new show I watch live or even follow. I am invested in this show and the actors.  There is something about it that just pulls me in, I attribute the jaystin chemistry and ALL the actors, I am passionate about this show so when it I have found myself noticing a lot more, plot holes, continuity issues, etc sometimes small, sometimes big, and I think a lot of us are like that bc we  love this show that much and we critique it bc we all have this specific idea and image in our heads on how BATB should be written and portrayed onscreen. Plus if you look at it realistically, if we concentrated on ever small little detail we'd never get through an episode. But honestly when I look at it especially comparing S1 to S2, I loved S1 for many reasons, but how long can we sit there and watch VinCat 1.0 and everything they did in S1, I think we'd get bored if played S2 out how they played S1 IMHO.  I would probbably be complaining that all Vincat do is have sex(or as Tess put it, be in there honeymoon stage) hide from Muirfield, and dream about wanting a future.  As much as I love the vincat feels, I'd probably be pulling my hair out by now. So, I enjoyed S2 bc it was so different from S1. 

Also I want to comment on the EPIC love that Vincat is.  I know alot of people hated the triangles, and cheating, and how vincat acted towards each other 4 most of S2.  But to me I still consider their love EPIC, soul mates, no matter what happened in S2.  I agree w/ the writers when the pulled them apart, even though it pained me. Vincat did get together rather quickly, and they both know that there was a pull between them, but I think a lot of them getting together in S1 to me IMHO was based on just feeling that pull and connection, but not really understanding the depth of what the pull meant and really realizing that they are destined to be together. By end of S1, I dont think either of them fully realized that. Now this is just my opinion. Coming into S2 wen they were pulled apart, I think V was more w/ Cat out of obligation rather than love even though he felt the pull.  And then with everything that happened between his memories getting erased, everything was programmed into him, and then Cat being who she was and V battling his inner Man v beast, I think he was a bit relived IMO when they broke up at first bc it gave him the chance to explore who he is and started questioning even if Cat n him were actually more.  And yes, I didmt like Tori, but she had an affect on and I think he needed to experience that and explore it to find out really if thats where he belongs rather than w/ Cat. He questioned everything. IMO The same thing w/ Cat, her belief that her in V were destined was shook to the core after their break up and she questioned everything.  I think she had to be w/ Gabe to see if that really was her destiny. Any non beast really, but he was the one who was close at the time.  

Once V realized that Cat was his destiny, and yes, I wouldve loved from him to be able to shove Tori to the curb, but again thats another story, I that was the turning point. And he did everything in his power to become worthy of her again.  Since then and vincat BOTH finally realizing truly realizing that they are destined, they have gone full speed ahead. They need to be apart to figure out that they were truly destined bc they got together so quickly in S1 and to me more based on they needed each other on a different level than truly just love. IF I compare VinCat 1.0 to VinCat 3.0, these last 7 episodes or so, VinCat to me wins hands down.  I feel like VinCat 3.0 truly knows wat they both want, together and separately, they are more in tune with each other, and are on the same page and most importantly know that they truly are destined.  During S1, I didnt feel anything of those feelings towards VinCat, and order to get where VinCat is now, I think they had to go through all that, otherwise IMO I dont think they wouldve grown.   But I dont think IMO bc someone cheats, strays or something else doesnt mean that a couple isnt epic.  We all make mistakes and are all flawed characters, and if we werent or they werent I dont think we'd have an interesting story. 

Sorry for the rant, just had to get this out there! LOL

OK, I agree with everything you said wholeheartedly... EXCEPT the part about complaining about too much "S".  IMO there is no such thing, and I dare them to prove me wrong. Like you, I love everything about the show in both seasons, even the unpleasant parts (triangles, etc) that makes the good parts good and makes it epic. But I disagree that there can be too much in the feels department. It doesn't have to be the actual sex act. Like I've said before, a scene like the one at the end of OFD in the hostel is perfectly acceptable. I don't have to see skin and detail (I wouldn't complain, though!), but more warm-fuzzies and make-your-heart-melt moments is and always will be welcome by me!

LOL. You are 100%. Idk if I would complain either and scenes like OFD are perfectly acceptable too, but vincat still needs the chance to grow, n if we got that all the time I don't think theyd grow as a couple  But I always welcome any sex scene, implied sex scene, or scenes like OFD   That scene was PERFECTION!!!

No other show has been able to hook or draw me in like BATB. And that says a lot bc I love TV, but IMHO, most shows today are garbage and don't even come close to BATB. I've seen worse plot holes and continuity issues on other shows than here, but if its not BATB I prefer re runs of older shows:) TV for the most part IMO isn't wat it used to be:)

[susy]

I fully agree that S1 Show was totally different from S2, but I think the root of the problema is deeper than how the way episodes/characters were developed during S2 (which I also agree maybe was not done in the best way), the core of the issue was that the Vincent we and Cat get in love was killed and replace for other Vincent almost opposite to whom we loved. I understand all the "lost of humanity" arc, but the problema is that his humanity during season 1 was not only the core of the story but also ehat feed emotions and VinCat chemistry, Vincent's humanity brought also Cat's humanity, his humanity even being a beast what inspired Cat's love, she felt he was a hero, a partner for justice, someone who protected and comforted her. On the other hand Vincent felt that Cat was the one who could see him worthy even in his darkness moments, even when he regreted about killing anyone she always find the way to show him that even as a beast did what was right, and Vincent was not only in love but also he was gratefully with her for that.

But in S2 the new Vincent was a killing machine that not only killed people but at least at the beginning he used to do that with some pleasure and sense of revenge. This made Cat to enter in a frustration and angry arc episode after episode, it is not necessary I explain it because all you know what happened, but my point is how in this situation there could be the old VinCat moments ot their Chemistry? Both characters went to her dark side making wrond desicions all the time and getting us more and more frustrated

As I really believe that killing the old Vincent was the worst decisión they could made, now that the old Vincent seems to be back I hope they don't repeat the mistake next season.

My fingers are crossed! :=)

[Bill the beast]

Jul 1, 2014 17:54:22 GMT -5 susy said:

I fully agree that S1 Show was totally different from S2, but I think the root of the problema is deeper than how the way episodes/characters were developed during S2 (which I also agree maybe was not done in the best way), the core of the issue was that the Vincent we and Cat get in love was killed and replace for other Vincent almost opposite to whom we loved. I understand all the "lost of humanity" arc, but the problema is that his humanity during season 1 was not only the core of the story but also ehat feed emotions and VinCat chemistry, Vincent's humanity brought also Cat's humanity, his humanity even being a beast what inspired Cat's love, she felt he was a hero, a partner for justice, someone who protected and comforted her. On the other hand Vincent felt that Cat was the one who could see him worthy even in his darkness moments, even when he regreted about killing anyone she always find the way to show him that even as a beast did what was right, and Vincent was not only in love but also he was gratefully with her for that.

But in S2 the new Vincent was a killing machine that not only killed people but at least at the beginning he used to do that with some pleasure and sense of revenge. This made Cat to enter in a frustration and angry arc episode after episode, it is not necessary I explain it because all you know what happened, but my point is how in this situation there could be the old VinCat moments ot their Chemistry? Both characters went to her dark side making wrond desicions all the time and getting us more and more frustrated

As I really believe that killing the old Vincent was the worst decisión they could made, now that the old Vincent seems to be back I hope they don't repeat the mistake next season.

My fingers are crossed! :=)

I agree with this.

I thought, right from the Pilot, this is a great setup; I want to see how it plays out. They had an epic love, based on admiration for each other, and maybe something else, something undefined drawing them together. Meanwhile, the entire world is lined up to keep them apart. That's a setup. You can make a series out of that.

Then, at the start of S2 I thought I saw how it would go. Catherine had wrecked her life to get Vincent back - and he's not the Vincent she loved. So of course they both have to grow and evolve in ways that will draw them back to each other. It may take a few episodes but they will fall in love again. And they'll have earned it.

But they fooled me!

These longer term threads or arcs (or mythology) are the responsibility of BK, aren't they? I remember KK and Sherri & Jen talking about having a new showrunner for S2. He's supposed to be really good with the mythology. Well, what happened with that? The characters didn't take the path I thought; they just got lost. They weren't ON a path.

We stumbled around with killing Beasts and multiple triangles and bio-Dads and tracking Gems and hunting Sam - and through it all there was no thread really. Vincent and Catherine seemed to stumble back together and Gabe was revealed to be (gasp!) a bad guy.

Somebody wasn't doing their job.

[SpydancerLovesVincat]

Jul 2, 2014 1:43:35 GMT -5 Bill the beast said:

Jul 1, 2014 17:54:22 GMT -5 susy said:

I fully agree that S1 Show was totally different from S2, but I think the root of the problema is deeper than how the way episodes/characters were developed during S2 (which I also agree maybe was not done in the best way), the core of the issue was that the Vincent we and Cat get in love was killed and replace for other Vincent almost opposite to whom we loved. I understand all the "lost of humanity" arc, but the problema is that his humanity during season 1 was not only the core of the story but also ehat feed emotions and VinCat chemistry, Vincent's humanity brought also Cat's humanity, his humanity even being a beast what inspired Cat's love, she felt he was a hero, a partner for justice, someone who protected and comforted her. On the other hand Vincent felt that Cat was the one who could see him worthy even in his darkness moments, even when he regreted about killing anyone she always find the way to show him that even as a beast did what was right, and Vincent was not only in love but also he was gratefully with her for that.

But in S2 the new Vincent was a killing machine that not only killed people but at least at the beginning he used to do that with some pleasure and sense of revenge. This made Cat to enter in a frustration and angry arc episode after episode, it is not necessary I explain it because all you know what happened, but my point is how in this situation there could be the old VinCat moments ot their Chemistry? Both characters went to her dark side making wrond desicions all the time and getting us more and more frustrated

As I really believe that killing the old Vincent was the worst decisión they could made, now that the old Vincent seems to be back I hope they don't repeat the mistake next season.

My fingers are crossed! :=)

I agree with this.

I thought, right from the Pilot, this is a great setup; I want to see how it plays out. They had an epic love, based on admiration for each other, and maybe something else, something undefined drawing them together. Meanwhile, the entire world is lined up to keep them apart. That's a setup. You can make a series out of that.

Then, at the start of S2 I thought I saw how it would go. Catherine had wrecked her life to get Vincent back - and he's not the Vincent she loved. So of course they both have to grow and evolve in ways that will draw them back to each other. It may take a few episodes but they will fall in love again. And they'll have earned it.

But they fooled me!

These longer term threads or arcs (or mythology) are the responsibility of BK, aren't they? I remember KK and Sherri & Jen talking about having a new showrunner for S2. He's supposed to be really good with the mythology. Well, what happened with that? The characters didn't take the path I thought; they just got lost. They weren't ON a path.

We stumbled around with killing Beasts and multiple triangles and bio-Dads and tracking Gems and hunting Sam - and through it all there was no thread really. Vincent and Catherine seemed to stumble back together and Gabe was revealed to be (gasp!) a bad guy.

Somebody wasn't doing their job.

Totally agree 100%. I know that because people love the show, fans tried to see the good through the fog that was the majority of S2 but I could not see past the mess. The setup that we started out with, that you talked about, everything that defined the show in S1 was lost or broken, and felt indiscernible through the mess they made. And indeed, stumble they did, and stumble and stumble, like a blind person trying to find their way in the darkness... I think there was a lot of potential at the start of S2 to make something special, but they squandered all of it on flimsy mythology, shallow guest characters, shoddy love triangles, and yes, one unfortunate misstep after another. The fact that some of us stuck by it through the mess they made, is not a testament to how good S2 was (it sucked IMO), but more a testament to the first season, show and characters we were originally drawn too. Because somewhere in the mess, the original formula, which actually worked, was still fumbling around trying to find it's way out of the darkened ruins created in S2. And it's true, the potential, obviously, as we have seen in recent episodes, is still there, they just wasted almost an entire season farting about and experimenting with various, ah, experiments. I can't really think of a better word than experiment to describe any of it. Or perhaps "experiment" is just the nicest, least offensive word I can think of...

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

I may be reading WAY too much into Heather's role in Operation Fake Date (with carryover from 219), but I felt that what she did in this episode was very much a reflection for what Cat's character has gone through this season.

We see Heather in 219 describing how she was all about career, not really looking for someone, and BOOM, enter Matthew. She thinks he is THE ONE and seems committed to him, yet when disaster/trauma strikes, she pushes him away. She admits in 221 that she has not even TOLD Matthew about being kidnapped. Heather has been unable to articulate to the one she supposedly loves the most about what she has gone through. She isolates herself and throws herself into the APPEARANCE of being committed to the relationship moving forward (planning bachelorette party, etc.), but she is all about the outward appearance of the relationship rather than realizing there are real problems in her not being able to open up and even understand herself in order to communicate with Matthew. Heather appears entirely self-centered in planning her party over taking out charges against Gabe when Gabe is clearly crazy at this point and a risk to more than just Heather. Heather just doesn't want to deal, just party or do whatever she can to focus on things about herself that she wants to deal with while IGNORING what she actually NEEDS to deal with.

The above was Catherine in a nutshell in early Season 2. She threw herself into partying with Tess (Hothead episode) and getting into a barroom brawl that could have cost herself AND Tess their careers. Catherine just isn't thinking or dealing with her problems and issues--she is reacting, often violently. And it appears completely self-centered, although, in reality, I think it is just Cat's attempts to deal with the trauma in a healthy way. Cat does NOT become unhinged through her actions because she has supportive and loving friends around her AND she has an inherent goodness within herself that ultimately wants to do the right thing. (This wanting to do the right thing and actually be a good person for ONE'S OWN SAKE is what ultimately causes Catherine AND Vincent to come back from Very dark places and causes Gabe to fall into insanity. Gabe ever only wanted to appear to be good for his own ends rather than to help others.)

Heather's falling apart during the bachelorette party is like Cat's throwing herself into her class reunion and her memories rather than acknowledging her world for what it has become and JUST DEALING with the trauma rather than Ignoring it, which she did for the first half of the season. While Vincent is unsure if he can even trust Cat originally because he does not know her at all, Cat thinks first sex will help Vincent and then starts saying they will just have all their "first" moments over again, as if it is that simple and as if Vincent even wants that. Cat seems in a dreamworld, and Heather is doing the same thing in just concentrating on APPEARING to be the Bride RATHER than what that actually means:  a lifetime commitment to another person to SHARE all experiences, good and bad, and grow TOGETHER. Heather has not even TOLD her fiancé about what happened to her as a result of Gabe's actions.

Yet while Heather is falling apart, she still tries to salvage that part of her career that will help her to help Vincent. She really is trying to get Vincent prepped for his press conference and throwing herself into that. And Vincent reciprocates by helping to decorate the apartment. Just like Vincent tried originally to make his relationship work with Catherine at the beginning of Season 2. However, with Cat continuously pushing him away when he needed her the most, sometimes with good reason on Cat's part, Vincent was right in questioning their relationship by the time Reynolds appeared in their lives. Reynolds is to Cat and Vincent what Gabe is to Heather and Matthew. And Heather isn't even including Matthew in her life at this point while attempting to celebrate her wonderful relationship with him--again, Cat at the beginning of this season. And we all know where that led--the break-up.

Heather has to figure herself out and what she stands for before she knows what to look for in her man. In hearing Vincent's speech to Sam, it all came together for Cat. She KNEW that she had felt more for Vincent then she wanted to admit after their night together. And since I am typing it, I will just address the Cheating issue myself. Yes, the cheating thing will always be a technicality that I find hard to ignore in the strictest sense. HOWEVER, Cat was trying so hard to be "the good girlfriend" to Gabe and do what she thought was right, that she was actually doing what was WRONG in cheating on her real love, Vincent. However, Cat was trying to move on as she thought Vincent had moved on. Cat keeps moving closer and closer to Vincent in the endscene of 215. She is trying to see if she really still means anything to Vincent. She has waited (although not realizing it herself--you could see it in the dungeon scene where she talks to Vincent about Gabe from previous ep) for Vincent to show her some sign that he still loved her. Vincent had tried to play that he WAS just friends with Cat because he believed that was what she wanted. It is only when Vincent risks it all to kiss Cat in 215 and SHOW her what he actually feels that causes something in Cat to breakdown and realize what she really wants. She wakes up remembering all the things she loves about Vincent while then becoming horrified at what she has done by surrendering to something that she thought she had "moved on" from. Thus, Cat is both self-centered and yet reaching out at the same time. She DIDN'T want to hurt Vincent or leave him alone if he didn't want her to. Part of her MUST have known that Gabe's demand was both wrong to make of Cat and yet right in the essence that Cat really HADN'T let go of Vincent as the love of her life at all.

This back and forth of Cat between appearing selfish and trying to figure herself out while REALLY ignoring her actual inner demons is what Heather has gone through in 219 and 221 right before us. And I found it annoying, sad, laughable, pitiable, and endearing all at once, as I have felt for Cat through her various incarnations this season as Cat tried to navigate between finding herself, dealing with unimaginable trauma, and helping others. The war and pull between these things makes Heather fall apart in much the way Cat falls apart. But Heather comes back by opening up to others and revealing what is bothering her and moving towards the right direction by deciding to come forward about Gabe (for the right reasons, not just to help Vincent--but to find a way to move on past the trauma for herself).

I LIKED what Heather went through in these two episodes because it helped me solidify what happened to Cat this season. Cat is human with flaws. What annoys is when she seems deliberately unable or unwilling to address her issues to the point that she and others pay the price. But eventually, Cat makes her comeback, on her own terms, and for the right reasons of doing right by others and for herself. So yeah, I guess we are all in for the "loop de loops" that Cat's rollarcoaster has placed her (and us) on this season. And I like how the Chandler sisters really ARE so much alike from their problems to the way they handle them. Heather ACTED like she was fine with learning all of Cat's secrets, yet we see how NOT fine she really is. And that she has a WAYS to go before really being fine again. But that means more of the journey for us to see on our screens. Again, why I love this show.   

[vincat4always]

Ok so here's my two cents on Season 1 VS season 2.

I myself prefer season 2 over season 1 and here's why:

Season 1 was  very ansgty in my book. First we had the Vincent and Cat push and bull for a better part of the season. There was so many times when they could have finally kissed, there was many times Vincent was about to tell Cat about how he felt and then cat would say something he took the wrong way and then we we're back to scratch. Then finally when we are getting somewhere more DRAMA. We had Evan, and I'm sorry I'm a Vincat fan all the way but I loved Evan, he was a good guy through and through. Yes he was a torn in their side, but in the end he sacrificed himself for the women he loved because he knew he couldn't protect her and Vincent could. Then when Cat finally confesses her feeling to Vincent and how she wants to be with him, his reaction was he wants to be the person he used to be? no reaction to what she just said but that with Alex he could be who he wants to be. SMACK. Then after all that is said and done we finally got our kiss but not before he tried to break up with her and the Heather drama. I personally enjoyed much better the later episodes of season 1 then the beginning. I wasn't around in the beginning as I only stumbled upon the show cuz I was bored one ay and watched the whole series but if I would have been around I would have gotten bored of the push and pull and stopped watching probably returned at a later time but I was getting annoyed when I was watching the show one after another.

Season 2 is a much better season in my book, yes it did have its focus on Vincat but there was more plot lines as well. Not that much angst as in season 1. We had Daddy Reynolds and his hit list, then the memory wipe, Tori and Gabe. People stopped watching the show cuz they wanted their Vincat loving week after week. And fi we would of had that, trust me you guys would have been bored. There is no show without angst or drama. I enjoyed Vincent's memory wipe and him then wanting to win Cat back. One of my favourite scenes is that window scenes when Cat tells him she can't take anymore lies. I stand by what I said many times, the Vincent going darker storyline HAD to be done. It's just one of those things that had to be explored and they couldn't do it when Vincent was madly in love with Cat but it would just kill the show and their whole destined to be together and what better way to do it then when his memory is wiped. This way they kill 2 birds with one stone. Tori was a pain in the ass, but not for the fact she was a love interest to Vincent cuz she wasn't. Vincent never liked the poor girl and she was clinging onto him like a lost puppy dog and he was only with her cuz he felt sorry for her. I don't know how you guys think he chose Tori over Cat, he chose BEAST over Cat not Tori. Plus he was only technically with her for what 2 episodes? Ancestors and then Held Hostage and then she died and eve when he was with her,he wasn't. In Ancestors, he was all jealous when he saw her kissing Patrick(who again I liked) and then in Held Hostage well there was scenes where it was clear he sitll had a thing for Cat. Example: When Gabe told him Cat was waiting for him, then when Gabe told Vincent Cat was inside where to Hostage takers were. The changing moment in that episode was when Cat turned off the lights to protect him, and from then on we had the old Vincent back. The next episode, he couldn't deny to Tori he didn't want her back and then there scene about being friends which is my second favourite scene of the whole series. He even broke up with the girl after that cause he and Tori both knew how he felt towards Cat. And then we had the scene of him saying he made a mistake when he chose BEAST not Tori. So when people say Tori died and he went back to Cat is a load of you know what, it was clear well before Tori died that he was never over Cat to begin with not for one second. Anyways I didn't want to go into this whole Tori arc thing so I'm going to continue here. Then we had the whole Gabe arc which to me, he was a horrible love interest, they should have used Patrick. Gabe's character was so not for Cat not just cause he tried to kill Vincent but he's just not Cat's type but she needed to move on from Vincent and used him as a rebound but just by the way she kissed the guy you knew she didn't really give a crap about him. There was no future there at all. Then from Catch me if you can up until now I've loved every single episode.

As for the love scenes, I personally much rather these little love bits like the one we had in 221 and then again in 219. When we get a love scene, there's no little lovey dovey scene for a while but when you get these small scenes they give you more of that. And be real people don't tell me you watch the show for a love scene cuz if you wanted that well I wont tell you where to go but you know where to go. Everyone wants angst that's what makes it a GREAT show. And the fact that week after week, we have people complaining is the simple fact that that is what the show is about. The reactions we get is what makes this show a great show and will continue to be. I don't need a love making scene; I much rather have the fluff.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get some slack for all of what I just said but just the way I see it.

[claubee]

I love everything you just said!!! I agree with you, I love Season 2!!!

[devin]

I was discussing a few things with my older sister yesterday, who also watches the show, about the difference between season 1 and 2 and we seemed to agree upon a few things. While both seasons have their stronger and weaker points, I personally feel that season 2's cons greatly outweigh the pros. I'm not saying that I dislike season 2, because it has its moments, but I prefer season 1 more. 

In season 1, I felt there was a good amount of character development and the plot had a CLEAR direction. The main focal point was evading Muirfield, keeping Vincent safe, and escaping the FBI task force/Gabe after Gabe tried to frame him for a series of beast killings. Tess/Catherine/Tess actually went to their jobs and had lives outside of beasts/Vincent. Cat had to deal with Evan, her sister, and questions about her mother, Tess had to deal with issues regarding Joe, JT had Sarah, Joe had to deal with the death of his brother/Tess, Evan had to deal with Cat and his discovery of cross species DNA, and so on so forth. In all, the story had a clear direction and the characters were dimensional. Season 2, in my opinion, failed with these aspects. The plot did not have a clear direction and I feel as though the writers bit off more than they could chew. They focused way too much on developing the love triangles and not developing the plot. I don't mind love triangles, but the mistake the writers made was putting Gabe and Catherine together. S1 Catherine would have NEVER entered into a relationship with Gabe. He tried to kill the man she loved! This was just unbelievable. Also, I did not get any indication that Gabe was romantically interested in Catherine at all last season. Gabe was using her and only getting in her good graces so that he could get closer to Vincent. Gabe is a very selfish individual (beast or non-beast) and it is very clear that he has adopted the "by any means possible" principle. He did not give a flying saucer about Tyler when she died (did he even cry/mourn?). So, how am I supposed to believe that he's so in love Catherine and will do anything to protect her? Moving on, I also feel that S2 did not do a very good job at incorporating sub plots from S1. There are still so many questions about Catherine's mother/fake father that need to be answered, that have not been answered yet. For example, was Catherine's mother good or bad? Is she alive? What did Evan see in her mother's file when he went to Muirfield in Heart of Darkness? Who killed Catherine's fake father? (please feel free to correct me if these aspects have been cleared up). In terms of characters, I really don't feel as if JT and Tess have lives outside of Catherine and Vincent. Like does JT work at the university anymore? What happened to Sarah? Although I love JTnT, I feel that it is kind of a cop out, in the sense that by putting them together, the writers can avoid exploring their lives and relationships, but that's just my personal opinion.

I also feel like this season was super faced paced 95% of the time and I think it just needs to slow down a bit. The characters talk really fast and the episode goes by quickly, so sometimes it's hard for me to understand what is going on. I really miss the sweet Vincat scenes. I'm not saying that Vincat scenes are not sweet and romantic because they are, but not to the same magnitude as S1 scenes were. I miss the little things, like Vincent randomly appearing in her bedroom or on the fire escape and I miss their heart to hearts. I can't even remember the last time they hung out on the fire escape! That's like one of their most treasured hang out spots lol. Lastly and most importantly, I feel as though the Vincent I love from S1 is sooo much different in S2. I still love Vincent with all of my heart, but I feel like he's changed. In S1 Vincent was a lot more chill, flirty, enigmatic, sweet, and caring. In S2, his character still has some of those qualities but not to the same degree and maybe this has to do with Kern taking over and wanting to portray a more "manlier" beast, different writers, idk. S2 Vincent is a little high strung for me and I don't like that they use him for comic relief. Please leave that to JT. 

The best episodes from this season are the ones that have aired after the hiatus only because I feel like the plot line and direction is a lot more clear than before and of course, Vincat is back together. This is just my commentary on the two seasons. I still love the show, the characters, and actors as much as I did before and I'm really looking forward to Season 3. 

[anapi -season3baby :)]

Jul 3, 2014 13:34:37 GMT -5 devin said:

I was discussing a few things with my older sister yesterday, who also watches the show, about the difference between season 1 and 2 and we seemed to agree upon a few things. While both seasons have their stronger and weaker points, I personally feel that season 2's cons greatly outweigh the pros. I'm not saying that I dislike season 2, because it has its moments, but I prefer season 1 more. 

In season 1, I felt there was a good amount of character development and the plot had a CLEAR direction. The main focal point was evading Muirfield, keeping Vincent safe, and escaping the FBI task force/Gabe after Gabe tried to frame him for a series of beast killings. Tess/Catherine/Tess actually went to their jobs and had lives outside of beasts/Vincent. Cat had to deal with Evan, her sister, and questions about her mother, Tess had to deal with issues regarding Joe, JT had Sarah, Joe had to deal with the death of his brother/Tess, Evan had to deal with Cat and his discovery of cross species DNA, and so on so forth. In all, the story had a clear direction and the characters were dimensional. Season 2, in my opinion, failed with these aspects. The plot did not have a clear direction and I feel as though the writers bit off more than they could chew. They focused way too much on developing the love triangles and not developing the plot. I don't mind love triangles, but the mistake the writers made was putting Gabe and Catherine together. S1 Catherine would have NEVER entered into a relationship with Gabe. He tried to kill the man she loved! This was just unbelievable. Also, I did not get any indication that Gabe was romantically interested in Catherine at all last season. Gabe was using her and only getting in her good graces so that he could get closer to Vincent. Gabe is a very selfish individual (beast or non-beast) and it is very clear that he has adopted the "by any means possible" principle. He did not give a flying saucer about Tyler when she died (did he even cry/mourn?). So, how am I supposed to believe that he's so in love Catherine and will do anything to protect her? Moving on, I also feel that S2 did not do a very good job at incorporating sub plots from S1. There are still so many questions about Catherine's mother/fake father that need to be answered, that have not been answered yet. For example, was Catherine's mother good or bad? Is she alive? What did Evan see in her mother's file when he went to Muirfield in Heart of Darkness? Who killed Catherine's fake father? (please feel free to correct me if these aspects have been cleared up). In terms of characters, I really don't feel as if JT and Tess have lives outside of Catherine and Vincent. Like does JT work at the university anymore? What happened to Sarah? Although I love JTnT, I feel that it is kind of a cop out, in the sense that by putting them together, the writers can avoid exploring their lives and relationships, but that's just my personal opinion.

I also feel like this season was super faced paced 95% of the time and I think it just needs to slow down a bit. The characters talk really fast and the episode goes by quickly, so sometimes it's hard for me to understand what is going on. I really miss the sweet Vincat scenes. I'm not saying that Vincat scenes are not sweet and romantic because they are, but not to the same magnitude as S1 scenes were. I miss the little things, like Vincent randomly appearing in her bedroom or on the fire escape and I miss their heart to hearts. I can't even remember the last time they hung out on the fire escape! That's like one of their most treasured hang out spots lol. Lastly and most importantly, I feel as though the Vincent I love from S1 is sooo much different in S2. I still love Vincent with all of my heart, but I feel like he's changed. In S1 Vincent was a lot more chill, flirty, enigmatic, sweet, and caring. In S2, his character still has some of those qualities but not to the same degree and maybe this has to do with Kern taking over and wanting to portray a more "manlier" beast, different writers, idk. S2 Vincent is a little high strung for me and I don't like that they use him for comic relief. Please leave that to JT. 

The best episodes from this season are the ones that have aired after the hiatus only because I feel like the plot line and direction is a lot more clear than before and of course, Vincat is back together. This is just my commentary on the two seasons. I still love the show, the characters, and actors as much as I did before and I'm really looking forward to Season 3. 

thanks for your view, really insightful - i am still evaluating the procs and cons and will hopefully reach a verdict at some point! i may just rewatch both seasons again and then reach a conclusion (just another excuse ot rewatch really)

[devin]

Thank you! I just needed to get a few things off of my chest lol

[Mrs Forbes Glass Half Full]

Jul 3, 2014 14:01:37 GMT -5 devin said:

Thank you! I just needed to get a few things off of my chest lol

This is the place for it !!

I agree with a lot of what you said.

I love Season 2 but I am still 'In Love' with Season 1.

Season 2 has spent too much of each episode on things I wasn't invested in . Not bothered about Gabe's redemption, or other love interests or beasts of the week. I don't find myself re-watching Season 2 like I did /do with Season 1.
I don't understand the writers apparent lack of understanding as to what the fandom would tolerate!! I know that they had a story they wanted to tell but really-- love triangles in a story about epic love between a beauty and her beast!!! The chemistry between VinCat needed a decent story to propel it forward. I wanted history and mythology!!! I still find it difficult to understand why they seem clueless on what works and what doesn't. I thought they had sorted that out in Season 1.

[devin]

Jul 3, 2014 14:50:29 GMT -5 Mrs Forbes Glass Half Full said:

Jul 3, 2014 14:01:37 GMT -5 devin said:

Thank you! I just needed to get a few things off of my chest lol

This is the place for it !!

I agree with a lot of what you said.

I love Season 2 but I am still 'In Love' with Season 1.

Season 2 has spent too much of each episode on things I wasn't invested in . Not bothered about Gabe's redemption, or other love interests or beasts of the week. I don't find myself re-watching Season 2 like I did /do with Season 1.
I don't understand the writers apparent lack of understanding as to what the fandom would tolerate!! I know that they had a story they wanted to tell but really-- love triangles in a story about epic love between a beauty and her beast!!! The chemistry between VinCat needed a decent story to propel it forward. I wanted history and mythology!!! I still find it difficult to understand why they seem clueless on what works and what doesn't. I thought they had sorted that out in Season 1.

I second this. The writer spent way too much focusing on Gabe's character and as a result, Tess and JT's storylines were pushed to the background. IMO Gabe should not have become a main character.