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[jefferen]

Jul 27, 2014 21:27:23 GMT -5 alwayscrazedbatbfan said:

Jefferen,

I agree entirely with what you just said. Catherine alternately tries to hard and presses Vincent in the early episodes of Season 2 and then fails to be there for him when he actually needs her and comes to her. So we have those moments of disconnect and failure to launch between the two. Again, Catherine is too damaged and desperate and needy at the beginning of Season 2 to see what she is doing. And, like you said, I believe it was because Catherine blamed herself for why Vincent was captured. I really wish she would have vocalized that (and some other things) to Vincent. Again, Missed Opportunities becomes the name of the game for the first part of Season 2. While Catherine talks about "not wanting to go backwards" in 216, she fails to realize that so much of Vincent's frustration in early Season 2 is because Catherine instantaneously wants him to be what he can't even remember. She doesn't accept the person standing right in front of her. And that person BADLY needed acceptance or at least companionship and the chance to just be human by interacting with others. Catherine causes a breakdown in communication on multiple occasions because she always demands to know the very thing Vincent has been brainwashed/programmed not to reveal. Which is especially painful to the audience, because when Catherine is sweet, understanding and caring (like taking care of Vincent's wound in "Who Am I?") Vincent's programming slips, even if for only a moment. And he stays longer than he planned simply because he wants to know WHY this woman seems to have such a pull on him that he would stop in the middle of his mission (when said mission was at its highest chance of success) in order to save her.

Vincent's rage so quickly comes to the surface in early Season 2 episodes because he has forgotten the long struggle to obtain control over his beast side (and also, it is my belief that Reynolds would have tortured Vincent in order to break him so that he could then "build" a "better soldier" from the ground up. So naturally, barely concealed rage is almost all Vincent has--would be necessary in order to get him to automatically kill. So Vincent doesn't need to be directly challenged. Catherine has seen Vincent pull away when she asked questions throughout 201 and in early 202 on the roof. Vincent seems open to the idea of spending time with Cat until she starts questioning him, and then he leaps off the roof. And again, when Vincent returns to the roof at the end of 202, Cat just won't stop asking questions. And Vincent has so little control of his rage at this point that the Shove Heard Round the Beastie Universe occurs. And Vincent is obviously appalled by his actions and wants so badly to apologize and start over with Cat (I mean, the guy finally brings her flowers--something even Season 1 Vincent couldn't do without blacking out!). Then Vincent finds realizes that Cat had lied about accepting his apology just to break into his computer. And Vincent ALREADY had trust issues. When Cat is angry throughout Season 2, she behaves in the worst possible manner without taking stock of how she will view her actions when she is no longer "beasting out."

"Liar Liar" is such a painful episode for me to watch. There was so much potential for character growth in this one, and I feel that BOTH characters fail miserably, yet understandably. Both react with so much hurt towards the other--each goes directly for the jugular. HOWEVER, that said, you see how much the two mean to each other already just from the sheer amount of hurt coming off in waves from both Vincent and Catherine. Vincent so wants Cat in his life, even if he can't completely admit it. And in the dance scene, you just see the PASSION coming out of everything they are saying (yet are able to dance together flawlessly--no hesitation. No failure to relate to one another on a base, chemical level. They sizzle so close to the surface.). And the adrenalin rush FINALLY brings back flashes of Catherine to Vincent. And Vincent runs straight to Cat. And she shuts him out because she "can't deal" with the lies he told before (although, come on, SHE was the first to lie. Yes, she thought she had good reason. Still, Vincent was reacting to her lie and hurting her the way she hurt him. No understanding or giving by either individual.). 

I get why Cat shut Vincent out in "Liar Liar." However, this was the one time I wanted Cat to take that leap in character growth right in the moment and simply be there for Vincent, whether she thought he deserved it or not. Yes, Cat is right: their original relationship was not based on lies (except when it suited them in Season 1--both DID lie to each other to try to save the other in Season 1, however, again to protect and to wound the other). This moment was when Vincent needed her to take a leap of faith. After all, he remembered something. She should have let him in, or better yet, gone out on the fire escape as they used to do. Talk it out. Because that was one of the Hard-Earned Lessons from Season 1--talk it out or end up blowing up Muirfield's computers when you could have had that information had you worked together (all you beasties know what episode I am talking about). Vincent is continuously questioning whether or not he can trust Cat in 201 and 202 because she continually questions what he cannot comment on. Yet when Vincent is finally willing to talk because he DOES realize that Cat was a significant part of his former life, Cat won't push pause and at least try. Leaving BOTH Cat and Vincent in an enraged and simmering below the surface to the point that BOTH look for a fight in 204. The two are at their closest by the end of "Hothead" because they had the hospital scene and then talked things out and worked together. And while both start to push one another away at times during the episode, they talk their way through (Vincent doesn't kick Cat out of the boathouse even though told not to have contact with her that might bring on memories. Cat tells him she is not leaving because she cares and asks for the truth. And Vincent gives it to her, they plan, happy episode.). And Vincent admits at episode's end that it is amazing what a couple of memories and some HONESTY can do. Yet by "Reunion," we again have the discontent and disconnect back, with Cat having more than a little resentment built up. 

So yes, like the typical viewer, I sometimes admit to wanting to shake either Catherine or Vincent when I felt each was neglecting to build upon lessons that had been so hard-learned the first time around. Vincent gets the excuse of memory loss, torture and trauma. I mean, they freaking messed with his brain! And Cat gets a pass, in part, because she has lost so much on top of the torture and trauma she endured in Season 1. When you consider how very many close people Catherine lost in such a short period of time AND the fact that she would place blame on herself for many of the losses (her father maybe killed by Muirfield, Evan, Heather, Vincent, etc.), you get why Cat has such a short fuse and seems unable to carry over what she has learned. Catherine acts as if it is Vincent that has to do all the work to become a man he USED to be without understanding all that has happened to make him someone else entirely new that needed compassion and a chance to get to know her at his own pace. But one can certainly understand and sympathize with Catherine's situation as well.

So yeah, if this post is any indication, still dealing with all the baggage of Season 2. And while I would have readily ended "Liar Liar" in a different way, I fully admit that the beginning of "Hothead" would not have been nearly as funny. Vincent and Catherine can't deal with being separated, and BOTH go looking for a fight to deal with their frustrations. One punches out a Judge, and the other ends up in the hospital from the fight. Neither can handle their separation which just shows how already committed the two are to the relationship. Damaged, but fully committed. And the two NEVER let go of each other, even for a moment, even when Catherine is trying to say "Vincent who?" to Tess. So I couldn't stop watching. Watching the train wreck in progress made Season 2 something I couldn't miss, even at its most painful. Even when the charcters were falling madly backwards rather than forwards.    

Agree! When it comes down to it, it takes two to tango. And IMO Catherine didnt do anything to make the situation w/ V any better.  On the surface, and in her heart, she thought she was doing what's right, but I dont think that Cat has ever really evaluated her heart and thoughts and how what she feels and what she does affects everyone around her. She fails to see that pushing V is actually doing more damage than good. Cat never had any empathy for what V went. And if you think about it V lost almost just much as Catherine. And just because V really cant remember what he lost and the real damage it has done to him, doesnt make his losses any less important  than everything Cat has been through.  JT IMO had more empathy for V in the early episodes of S2 than Cat did. But V didnt as far as we kno have any flashes or memories, or feel a pull/connection of JT like he had w/ Cat. V wanted to remember Cat, and try to be build some kind of life w/ her. But pushing V to remember her and their relationship wasnt helping matters and she fails to see that 

And I think IMO Tess & Gabe didnt do anything to make the situation any better, especially Tess.  I dont think Tess especially was ever fully and truly onboard w/ a VinCat relationship until 216ish. Tess was always IMO "dissing V" in the beginning episodes of S2 and always making the case as to why Cat shouldnt be w/ V and how much V was different. I know part of it was her concern for Cat as her bff, but her attitude towards everything concerning V always rubbed me the wrong way.  I think Tess obviously was grateful to V for saving her in S1, but I think in a way all she ever really saw him as a menace to Cat who has caused her grief over & over again, and that regardless if he saved Cat & herself and others, Cat was better off w/o him in her life. Plus also I think Tess had some jealously & bitterness built up from her split w/ Joe.  Honestly it wasnt until I think Tess found JT that she really began to see how EPIC, destined and how much love there really is between VinCat, and than she was onboard w/ VinCat 

And when it comes to Gabe, obviously he wanted to redeem himself, but the further we got into S2, it was clear that he thought the only way he could be redeem was through Catherine.  He always tredded water when it came to talking to Cat about V especially once they were actually together.  Before they were together he was gonna do everything he could do to save V, help Cat get her V back, and he hoped secretly that Cat could see V was just a beast and would be no more. He knew then the depth of VinCat's connection & love. Once he finally got Cat he knew that VinCat were still in love w/ each other. I mean how could you not see it? So he had to tred more water because he knew as much as Cat said she wanted to move on, her heart still beats for V. Gabe had to always point out how much of a beast V really is and how hes never gonna change, and did that because he knew that Cat's connection to V was so deep that she would see it on her own.  

The only one who was Pro VinCat was JT. JT was more pro Vincent, but he wasn't in V's ear whispering Tori is bad for you, you should work things out w/ Cat, or move on cuz Cat cant accept you for who you are. 

[rose]

   [/quote]Agree! When it comes down to it, it takes two to tango. And IMO Catherine didnt do anything to make the situation w/ V any better.  On the surface, and in her heart, she thought she was doing what's right, but I dont think that Cat has ever really evaluated her heart and thoughts and how what she feels and what she does affects everyone around her. She fails to see that pushing V is actually doing more damage than good. Cat never had any empathy for what V went. And if you think about it V lost almost just much as Catherine. And just because V really cant remember what he lost and the real damage it has done to him, doesnt make his losses any less important  than everything Cat has been through.  JT IMO had more empathy for V in the early episodes of S2 than Cat did. But V didnt as far as we kno have any flashes or memories, or feel a pull/connection of JT like he had w/ Cat. V wanted to remember Cat, and try to be build some kind of life w/ her. But pushing V to remember her and their relationship wasnt helping matters and she fails to see that 

And I think IMO Tess & Gabe didnt do anything to make the situation any better, especially Tess.  I dont think Tess especially was ever fully and truly onboard w/ a VinCat relationship until 216ish. Tess was always IMO "dissing V" in the beginning episodes of S2 and always making the case as to why Cat shouldnt be w/ V and how much V was different. I know part of it was her concern for Cat as her bff, but her attitude towards everything concerning V always rubbed me the wrong way.  I think Tess obviously was grateful to V for saving her in S1, but I think in a way all she ever really saw him as a menace to Cat who has caused her grief over & over again, and that regardless if he saved Cat & herself and others, Cat was better off w/o him in her life. Plus also I think Tess had some jealously & bitterness built up from her split w/ Joe.  Honestly it wasnt until I think Tess found JT that she really began to see how EPIC, destined and how much love there really is between VinCat, and than she was onboard w/ VinCat 

And when it comes to Gabe, obviously he wanted to redeem himself, but the further we got into S2, it was clear that he thought the only way he could be redeem was through Catherine.  He always tredded water when it came to talking to Cat about V especially once they were actually together.  Before they were together he was gonna do everything he could do to save V, help Cat get her V back, and he hoped secretly that Cat could see V was just a beast and would be no more. He knew then the depth of VinCat's connection & love. Once he finally got Cat he knew that VinCat were still in love w/ each other. I mean how could you not see it? So he had to tred more water because he knew as much as Cat said she wanted to move on, her heart still beats for V. Gabe had to always point out how much of a beast V really is and how hes never gonna change, and did that because he knew that Cat's connection to V was so deep that she would see it on her own.  

The only one who was Pro VinCat was JT. JT was more pro Vincent, but he wasn't in V's ear whispering Tori is bad for you, you should work things out w/ Cat, or move on cuz Cat cant accept you for who you are. [/quote]


I re watched who am I , kidnapped and part of liar liar over the weekend. And with regard to Tess I agree with you, her attitude also rubbed me the wrong way. As a bff I cannot assume to know who or what's best for my friend which I think is what Tess did. She may have thought that Vincent was not good for Cat but that was not up to her and in the beginning she kind of pushed cat towards Gabe. As a friend I think Tess should just have been there for Cat as she worked through the issues for herself in the end I thought cat felt pressured by Tess and Gabe who were always telling her how unsafe it was for her to be alone with Vincent and how dangerous he had become. In the end in an effort to speed things up cat pushed Vincent for answers and we all know how that went down. Gabe on the other hand while pretending to be helpful planted doubts in cat's mind like after that incident when Vincent pushed cat. When cat tried to explain that this is not a classic case of domestic abuse, Gabe was like so you are saying you are to blame for this and when Vincent and Tori were being photographed out and about Gabe kind of rubbed it in to cat that they were an item. So I think cat lacked the right support network that allowed her to be herself and make her own decisions. It seems the only person who could allow her to be herself was Vincent and when she no longer had his support she started to second guess herself. This to me somehow explain why she was out of character for the better part of s2

[jefferen]

Jul 28, 2014 9:50:32 GMT -5 rose said:

   

Agree! When it comes down to it, it takes two to tango. And IMO Catherine didnt do anything to make the situation w/ V any better.  On the surface, and in her heart, she thought she was doing what's right, but I dont think that Cat has ever really evaluated her heart and thoughts and how what she feels and what she does affects everyone around her. She fails to see that pushing V is actually doing more damage than good. Cat never had any empathy for what V went. And if you think about it V lost almost just much as Catherine. And just because V really cant remember what he lost and the real damage it has done to him, doesnt make his losses any less important  than everything Cat has been through.  JT IMO had more empathy for V in the early episodes of S2 than Cat did. But V didnt as far as we kno have any flashes or memories, or feel a pull/connection of JT like he had w/ Cat. V wanted to remember Cat, and try to be build some kind of life w/ her. But pushing V to remember her and their relationship wasnt helping matters and she fails to see that 

And I think IMO Tess & Gabe didnt do anything to make the situation any better, especially Tess.  I dont think Tess especially was ever fully and truly onboard w/ a VinCat relationship until 216ish. Tess was always IMO "dissing V" in the beginning episodes of S2 and always making the case as to why Cat shouldnt be w/ V and how much V was different. I know part of it was her concern for Cat as her bff, but her attitude towards everything concerning V always rubbed me the wrong way.  I think Tess obviously was grateful to V for saving her in S1, but I think in a way all she ever really saw him as a menace to Cat who has caused her grief over & over again, and that regardless if he saved Cat & herself and others, Cat was better off w/o him in her life. Plus also I think Tess had some jealously & bitterness built up from her split w/ Joe.  Honestly it wasnt until I think Tess found JT that she really began to see how EPIC, destined and how much love there really is between VinCat, and than she was onboard w/ VinCat 

And when it comes to Gabe, obviously he wanted to redeem himself, but the further we got into S2, it was clear that he thought the only way he could be redeem was through Catherine.  He always tredded water when it came to talking to Cat about V especially once they were actually together.  Before they were together he was gonna do everything he could do to save V, help Cat get her V back, and he hoped secretly that Cat could see V was just a beast and would be no more. He knew then the depth of VinCat's connection & love. Once he finally got Cat he knew that VinCat were still in love w/ each other. I mean how could you not see it? So he had to tred more water because he knew as much as Cat said she wanted to move on, her heart still beats for V. Gabe had to always point out how much of a beast V really is and how hes never gonna change, and did that because he knew that Cat's connection to V was so deep that she would see it on her own.  

The only one who was Pro VinCat was JT. JT was more pro Vincent, but he wasn't in V's ear whispering Tori is bad for you, you should work things out w/ Cat, or move on cuz Cat cant accept you for who you are. [/quote]


I re watched who am I , kidnapped and part of liar liar over the weekend. And with regard to Tess I agree with you, her attitude also rubbed me the wrong way. As a bff I cannot assume to know who or what's best for my friend which I think is what Tess did. She may have thought that Vincent was not good for Cat but that was not up to her and in the beginning she kind of pushed cat towards Gabe. As a friend I think Tess should just have been there for Cat as she worked through the issues for herself in the end I thought cat felt pressured by Tess and Gabe who were always telling her how unsafe it was for her to be alone with Vincent and how dangerous he had become. In the end in an effort to speed things up cat pushed Vincent for answers and we all know how that went down. Gabe on the other hand while pretending to be helpful planted doubts in cat's mind like after that incident when Vincent pushed cat. When cat tried to explain that this is not a classic case of domestic abuse, Gabe was like so you are saying you are to blame for this and when Vincent and Tori were being photographed out and about Gabe kind of rubbed it in to cat that they were an item. So I think cat lacked the right support network that allowed her to be herself and make her own decisions. It seems the only person who could allow her to be herself was Vincent and when she no longer had his support she started to second guess herself. This to me somehow explain why she was out of character for the better part of s2[/quote]


Exactly!  Tess wasnt giving her the right type of support. And when she did give Cat the support she did it w/ edge and an attitude. IMO she treated Catherine like a kid, like when it comes to Vincent Cat cant make her own decisions and judgments. Gabe just continued to plant seeds of doubt in Cats mind about Vincent in the beginning of S2 well still playing the front of trying to redeem himself to VinCat.  JT I have to say is the only one who was NEVER really fooled by Gabe's redemption. And then finally when Cat & incent break up and he finally has Catherine, he continues to push himself on Cat and really make it known, first subtlely how much he dislikes Vincent, and then as he realizes that VinCat are getting closer he pretty much openingly hates Vincent, and talks trash about him. 

But I definitely agree with you, Cat didnt have the right support system during everything that was going on through the whole Vincent ordeal, and ontop of everything Cat was kind of on autopilot because she never dealt w/ all the loss & hurt she went thro at the end of S1. Instead of saying you need to stay away from Vincent, and doing things behind Cats back, Tess shouldve been like "How can I help you?" 

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

Cat's Support System is something that undergoes a substantial overhaul between Seasons 1 & 2. You see how close the Special Victims' Unit was in Season 1's episode "Saturn Returns." Joe, Evan, and Tess are all at Cat's surprise birthday bash and are clearly fairly close. The first real thing to come between Tess and Cat is Vincent. Cat's hiding evidence breaks up their partnership, although Tess retains enough loyalty to not rat out Cat to Gabe when he comes investigating the DA's office. And Tess does later realize why Cat loves Vincent after she herself is saved by Vincent. While Tess later helps Cat save Vincent, it is clear that Tess does so for Cat's sake, not Vincent's. And Tess was very clear to Vincent that if he ever hurt Cat, she would make him pay (this scene from the episode where Vincent is doing his laundry at Cat's and Tess comes by to drag Cat off to the roof to talk).

Enter Season 2. Tess has seen firsthand what being unable to let go will cost someone. As Tess tells Cat in 201, Joe's failure to let go of his brother meant that he ignored or mishandled cases resulting in compromised judgment, which led to the DA's office overturning Joe's cases. And that would have been a whole lot of cases, doubling the workload for everyone. And Cat is basically absent for 3 months searching for Vincent and completely falling apart. Tess, meanwhile, loses Joe because he couldn't let go of Darius and what happened to him. Tess sees Cat as going down the same obsessive highway that Joe went down. Thus, I DO see Tess' actions, in part, as her well-meaning attempt to keep Cat from suffering the same heartache that she has suffered. And where getting justice for others once meant everything to Cat, Cat has left Tess to worry about all the cases that come their way during those 3 months. So Tess can see what pursuing Vincent has cost Cat.

And Tess realizes, perhaps before anyone else, just how really different Vincent is. As Tess tells Cat in 202, Vincent's way of killing the head of Muirfield is completely different from the way he has ever killed before. Always before, Vincent only killed someone when trying to save someone else. Vincent didn't go stalking someone to deliberately maul them to death. Vincent lacks basic empathy or remorse for his victims. And while Cat tries to be on board with Vincent's "killing the Darth Vader of Muirfield," even Cat is appalled by the vicious way Vincent later kills Zach and Curt Windsor. Cat's eyes tell her one thing, and her heart tells her another. Catherine is already second guessing herself before the Windsor's ever enter the picture.

And by "Reunion," we see that Gabe's feelings for Cat and own self-interest promote his "I can protect Cat better" controlling vibe, and he is no longer so motivated to help Vincent get back with Cat. I had never really picked up on the little squabble at the gym between Gabe and Vincent until re-watching the episode during the TV Guide marathon. Each wants to get Cat out of harm's way, so each goes to pulling on Cat. Neither Gabe or Vincent backs down, and both physically pull on Cat. TESS is the one to settle the issue by telling Gabe to cover the front door with her and have Vincent get Catherine out the back. And Vincent really stares down Gabe as he leaves the gym, realizing that Gabe is going to talk to Catherine and that maybe, just maybe, he should pay a bit more attention to that relationship.

I admit that I would love an alternate universe of Season 2 BATB episodes that cover the "What If?" angle. I would love to see what would have happened had Vincent killed Curt Windsor without ever coming into contact with Tori. And if Reynolds had just let Vincent go rather than trying to kill him. Would be really interesting to have seen how Vincent continued to develop and where Tess and Gabe would have ended up as far as what each would have said regarding the relationship. I agree that Tess had HER OWN baggage that colored her opinion when she looked at Cat's relationship with Vincent. Above all else, Tess wanted to keep Cat from losing herself and everything that Cat had worked her whole life to get. Even Cat has bitterness regarding the direction of her life by "Reunion." So Tess' statements and attitude don't come out of no where. She wants Cat's pain to end and for Cat to end up with someone that values her and her career. And Gabe would SEEM to fit that bill, at least in early Season 2, considering how far he is willing to go to redeem himself in Cat's eyes. But again, that is another important theme of Season 2 BATB: do what you do for the right reasons and for yourself first, then you can be strong enough to be there for someone else. Tess and Gabe both fall into this trap. Tess is bitter, upset, and resentful because of what happened in her own love life and to her own job. Rather than fixing herself, she obsesses over Cat and seeks to influence Cat to not take the path she took. Gabe does things designed to give Cat what she wants. That merges into getting Cat what she should want, in Gabe's eyes, without letting or relying on Cat to make her own decisions or judgments. Never does Gabe know himself or work on himself for his own sake in order to develop his own character for the right reasons. 

So neither Gabe or Tess are themselves in a good place at the beginning of Season 2. Both have experienced their own significant trauma and loss. Both think their experiences (Gabe being a former Beast, Tess being with Joe) form enough of a reason to keep Cat from Vincent and to mandate their interference in Cat's life "for her own good." So both are in the wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak, to be influencing Cat, who has lost so much herself. So no one is in a good position to be a support system for anyone else. Again, the beautiful Train Wreck of Season 2 with everyone making the wrong decisions for what appear to be the right reasons at the time. Tess' and Gabe's evolution over the course of Season 2 causes BOTH of them to completely do a turnabout in their thoughts regarding VinCat due to their own experiences and Reynolds' involvement in their lives. Pushes Tess and JT to find common ground and a better understanding of their themselves, and as a result, make them better able to help support (not control) their best friends. So Season 2 is NOT just about Vincent and Catherine's development BUT about how their whole support system evolves as a result of the alliances and traumas that happen throughout the season. Another reason to appreciate Season 2 for all of its complexities, despite the pain and trauma (and I am not just talking about the characters at this point--I think we viewers suffered as much by watching the painful transitions).     

[jefferen]

Jul 28, 2014 16:43:54 GMT -5 alwayscrazedbatbfan said:

Cat's Support System is something that undergoes a substantial overhaul between Seasons 1 & 2. You see how close the Special Victims' Unit was in Season 1's episode "Saturn Returns." Joe, Evan, and Tess are all at Cat's surprise birthday bash and are clearly fairly close. The first real thing to come between Tess and Cat is Vincent. Cat's hiding evidence breaks up their partnership, although Tess retains enough loyalty to not rat out Cat to Gabe when he comes investigating the DA's office. And Tess does later realize why Cat loves Vincent after she herself is saved by Vincent. While Tess later helps Cat save Vincent, it is clear that Tess does so for Cat's sake, not Vincent's. And Tess was very clear to Vincent that if he ever hurt Cat, she would make him pay (this scene from the episode where Vincent is doing his laundry at Cat's and Tess comes by to drag Cat off to the roof to talk).

Enter Season 2. Tess has seen firsthand what being unable to let go will cost someone. As Tess tells Cat in 201, Joe's failure to let go of his brother meant that he ignored or mishandled cases resulting in compromised judgment, which led to the DA's office overturning Joe's cases. And that would have been a whole lot of cases, doubling the workload for everyone. And Cat is basically absent for 3 months searching for Vincent and completely falling apart. Tess, meanwhile, loses Joe because he couldn't let go of Darius and what happened to him. Tess sees Cat as going down the same obsessive highway that Joe went down. Thus, I DO see Tess' actions, in part, as her well-meaning attempt to keep Cat from suffering the same heartache that she has suffered. And where getting justice for others once meant everything to Cat, Cat has left Tess to worry about all the cases that come their way during those 3 months. So Tess can see what pursuing Vincent has cost Cat.

And Tess realizes, perhaps before anyone else, just how really different Vincent is. As Tess tells Cat in 202, Vincent's way of killing the head of Muirfield is completely different from the way he has ever killed before. Always before, Vincent only killed someone when trying to save someone else. Vincent didn't go stalking someone to deliberately maul them to death. Vincent lacks basic empathy or remorse for his victims. And while Cat tries to be on board with Vincent's "killing the Darth Vader of Muirfield," even Cat is appalled by the vicious way Vincent later kills Zach and Curt Windsor. Cat's eyes tell her one thing, and her heart tells her another. Catherine is already second guessing herself before the Windsor's ever enter the picture.

And by "Reunion," we see that Gabe's feelings for Cat and own self-interest promote his "I can protect Cat better" controlling vibe, and he is no longer so motivated to help Vincent get back with Cat. I had never really picked up on the little squabble at the gym between Gabe and Vincent until re-watching the episode during the TV Guide marathon. Each wants to get Cat out of harm's way, so each goes to pulling on Cat. Neither Gabe or Vincent backs down, and both physically pull on Cat. TESS is the one to settle the issue by telling Gabe to cover the front door with her and have Vincent get Catherine out the back. And Vincent really stares down Gabe as he leaves the gym, realizing that Gabe is going to talk to Catherine and that maybe, just maybe, he should pay a bit more attention to that relationship.

I admit that I would love an alternate universe of Season 2 BATB episodes that cover the "What If?" angle. I would love to see what would have happened had Vincent killed Curt Windsor without ever coming into contact with Tori. And if Reynolds had just let Vincent go rather than trying to kill him. Would be really interesting to have seen how Vincent continued to develop and where Tess and Gabe would have ended up as far as what each would have said regarding the relationship. I agree that Tess had HER OWN baggage that colored her opinion when she looked at Cat's relationship with Vincent. Above all else, Tess wanted to keep Cat from losing herself and everything that Cat had worked her whole life to get. Even Cat has bitterness regarding the direction of her life by "Reunion." So Tess' statements and attitude don't come out of no where. She wants Cat's pain to end and for Cat to end up with someone that values her and her career. And Gabe would SEEM to fit that bill, at least in early Season 2, considering how far he is willing to go to redeem himself in Cat's eyes. But again, that is another important theme of Season 2 BATB: do what you do for the right reasons and for yourself first, then you can be strong enough to be there for someone else. Tess and Gabe both fall into this trap. Tess is bitter, upset, and resentful because of what happened in her own love life and to her own job. Rather than fixing herself, she obsesses over Cat and seeks to influence Cat to not take the path she took. Gabe does things designed to give Cat what she wants. That merges into getting Cat what she should want, in Gabe's eyes, without letting or relying on Cat to make her own decisions or judgments. Never does Gabe know himself or work on himself for his own sake in order to develop his own character for the right reasons. 

So neither Gabe or Tess are themselves in a good place at the beginning of Season 2. Both have experienced their own significant trauma and loss. Both think their experiences (Gabe being a former Beast, Tess being with Joe) form enough of a reason to keep Cat from Vincent and to mandate their interference in Cat's life "for her own good." So both are in the wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak, to be influencing Cat, who has lost so much herself. So no one is in a good position to be a support system for anyone else. Again, the beautiful Train Wreck of Season 2 with everyone making the wrong decisions for what appear to be the right reasons at the time. Tess' and Gabe's evolution over the course of Season 2 causes BOTH of them to completely do a turnabout in their thoughts regarding VinCat due to their own experiences and Reynolds' involvement in their lives. Pushes Tess and JT to find common ground and a better understanding of their themselves, and as a result, make them better able to help support (not control) their best friends. So Season 2 is NOT just about Vincent and Catherine's development BUT about how their whole support system evolves as a result of the alliances and traumas that happen throughout the season. Another reason to appreciate Season 2 for all of its complexities, despite the pain and trauma (and I am not just talking about the characters at this point--I think we viewers suffered as much by watching the painful transitions).     

Seriously, another great post Whats left to say when you say it all?

[BeastieBoy]

The latest Nick Roman S2 Essay, "Beauty and the Beast’ Season 2 Retrospective Pt. 4: Miss Independent", focuses on Cat.

www.rickey.org/beauty-beast-season-2-retrospective-pt-4-miss-independent/266250/

Seems like Nick wrote it especially for dan

[anapi -season3baby :)]

Aug 6, 2014 3:15:23 GMT -5 BeastieBoy said:

The latest Nick Roman S2 Essay, "Beauty and the Beast’ Season 2 Retrospective Pt. 4: Miss Independent", focuses on Cat.

www.rickey.org/beauty-beast-season-2-retrospective-pt-4-miss-independent/266250/

Seems like Nick wrote it especially for dan

lol i think he talked about all the things that we have been talking about in the forum in terms of how the character was developed this season and what he and most forum members see as the iggest mistake of all, the pairing up with gabe during the break up instead of her independent, individual growth

[sweetrosie29]

He's so spot on whete Gabe in concerned and hiw much Catherine changed and was so quick to forgive and forget what Gabe had done only months before and it was sad to see how the writers made her into a yes girl for Gabe. I think that Sendhill did go a good job but I'm glad that Gabe us gone and it was by Cat's hand not Vincent's.

[lovebatb]

I really do think that Catherine and Gabe together was the worst and non-sense ideia they ever had!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't really fit with the strong and independent woman Cat was in first season! They have chosen "that" instead of her growth as an individual!

[jefferen]

t.co/Uw1wXfrElp  Nick's last BATB analysis  

[SpydancerLovesVincat]

Aug 13, 2014 9:12:42 GMT -5 jefferen said:

t.co/Uw1wXfrElp  Nick's last BATB analysis  

For me, he's spot on. I think he's being kind, but then again, I'm not a fan of S2. I'm a lot less in love with this show than I was a year ago. I blame it on a creatively uninspired second season. There's not much more for me to say about it. I need to read his earlier analysis of S2 - but I can tell from his overall tone that in general I tend to agree with where he's coming from.

[lovebatb]

Oh, let's just forget about season 2....

[Bill the beast]

Aug 30, 2014 6:13:49 GMT -5 lovebatb said:

Oh, let's just forget about season 2....

It is forgotten lovebatb  Even Nick's recap exhausted me.

Many of you had great comments in his comment section, though.

[ragulr25]

look alive people
gina rodriguez has won over the critics
and jane the virgin kinda getting some good reviews in past weeks
for the show airs on mon which does not have much pr like flash is gonna depend on critics choice .
its heading in a good dir .
not to press the panic button here.

[anapi -season3baby :)]

Sept 9, 2014 22:24:23 GMT -5 ragulr25 said:

look alive people
gina rodriguez has won over the critics
and jane the virgin kinda getting some good reviews in past weeks
for the show airs on mon which does not have much pr like flash is gonna depend on critics choice .
its heading in a good dir .
not to press the panic button here.

thing is u can never predict how well a show will do we have been surprised many times in the past. besides the flash which we know will do well for a range of reasons and SN which has a very loyal fanbase and arrow which is a favourite we know we cannot make any assumptions about any other shows. jane the virgin has got some good reviews, I know and it may do well or it may flop. we just don't know. i am not panicking about this at this stage because what's the point, there is nothing i can do.