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Post by Laura on Feb 3, 2014 14:23:25 GMT -5
I see how everyone here is expressing your feelings and that's always been a good thing.. Now let me tell you ONE thing I know for sure ... Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levin even though still are exec producer's are NOT the main voices anymore.. I can assure you that they aren't happy either with the VinCat storyline and how all has been going down...So much so that I believe that if there were a season 3 they wouldn't be exec producers of the series anymore.. There's an inner riff in the fandom but also with the powers that be... Cooper and Levin also haven't written that many episodes this season since this isn't about VinCat we know they write episodes about them... They've written only 2 episodes this season including next week's Til Death... So they not only lost ranks but also writing VinCat and that's where the problem lies. As much as many are disappointed for the way they 'changed' Vincent and made him unlovable the last few episodes have given me hope.. I don't expect people to stick around and watch it play out if it's that disappointing but as many have said I’ve invested many hours of watching. ..rewatching. ..voting..petitioning. ..making clips ....voting to just let this show go.. I'm not blind either to the way they messed up with Vincent and how they've erased not only Vincent memory but also the entire first season ...but like I said in a previous thread .. We can't get season one back..All we can hope for is redemption of the characters and a stronger more defined love... Epic? I dunno that word is overused. It seems that as Catherine's family has betrayed Vincent in one way or another..TPTB have done the same with the fans who've been with them since day one..yours truly included. First off, Yolie dear I agree with you completely. I've said it many times before how I wish Jennifer & Sherri still had the upper hand. To me, this show has been very much a character show, and that's where the VinCat magic happens. The way they started the show seemed great to me: VinCat, JT, and Tess being the main characters, each supporting one another in every possible way. The beautiful friendships and relationships portrayed were so not typical of what we see these days on TV. Throw in the 0h-my-Gawd sizzling chemistry between KK and Jay, and what else could I be asking for? Season two happened and new writers came in and I think that's when Jennifer & Sherri should have put their foot down and controlled/watched (I don't know what other words to use) the characters' development. They created them the beautiful way the did last season, and I guess it's only natural that they know them best and completely. Had they done that, the characters would have been more true to what they were intended to be in the first place. As you said, I too like many other Beasties have spent so much time and energy on this show to just let it go now. Also, I think we are all emotionally invested in this show to a great extent, or else, there wouldn't be all these heated discussions going on; there wouldn't have been the glorious (am being sentimental again, I know!) three PCA wins against all odds! OK, I digressed, but my main point here is that I understand we can't get season 1 back, and I'm also hoping the love and magic we've been so impatiently awaiting all this season, come back and are written if not more breathtakingly than season 1, but no less.
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Post by pippin on Feb 3, 2014 14:54:40 GMT -5
I see how everyone here is expressing your feelings and that's always been a good thing.. Now let me tell you ONE thing I know for sure ... Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levin even though still are exec producer's are NOT the main voices anymore.. I can assure you that they aren't happy either with the VinCat storyline and how all has been going down...So much so that I believe that if there were a season 3 they wouldn't be exec producers of the series anymore.. There's an inner riff in the fandom but also with the powers that be... Cooper and Levin also haven't written that many episodes this season since this isn't about VinCat we know they write episodes about them... They've written only 2 episodes this season including next week's Til Death... So they not only lost ranks but also writing VinCat and that's where the problem lies. As much as many are disappointed for the way they 'changed' Vincent and made him unlovable the last few episodes have given me hope.. I don't expect people to stick around and watch it play out if it's that disappointing but as many have said I’ve invested many hours of watching. ..rewatching. ..voting..petitioning. ..making clips ....voting to just let this show go.. I'm not blind either to the way they messed up with Vincent and how they've erased not only Vincent memory but also the entire first season ...but like I said in a previous thread .. We can't get season one back..All we can hope for is redemption of the characters and a stronger more defined love... Epic? I dunno that word is overused. It seems that as Catherine's family has betrayed Vincent in one way or another..TPTB have done the same with the fans who've been with them since day one..yours truly included. First off, Yolie dear I agree with you completely. I've said it many times before how I wish Jennifer & Sherri still had the upper hand. To me, this show has been very much a character show, and that's where the VinCat magic happens. The way they started the show seemed great to me: VinCat, JT, and Tess being the main characters, each supporting one another in every possible way. The beautiful friendships and relationships portrayed were so not typical of what we see these days on TV. Throw in the 0h-my-Gawd sizzling chemistry between KK and Jay, and what else could I be asking for? Season two happened and new writers came in and I think that's when Jennifer & Sherri should have put their foot down and controlled/watched (I don't know what other words to use) the characters' development. They created them the beautiful way the did last season, and I guess it's only natural that they know them best and completely. Had they done that, the characters would have been more true to what they were intended to be in the first place. As you said, I too like many other Beasties have spent so much time and energy on this show to just let it go now. Also, I think we are all emotionally invested in this show to a great extent, or else, there wouldn't be all these heated discussions going on; there wouldn't have been the glorious (am being sentimental again, I know!) three PCA wins against all odds! OK, I digressed, but my main point here is that I understand we can't get season 1 back, and I'm also hoping the love and magic we've been so impatiently awaiting all this season, come back and are written if not more breathtakingly than season 1, but no less. Levin and Cooper are not the show runners, meaning they don't have a foot to put down. They can argue for or against certain storylines, etc in the writers room but Kern, the studio and the network are above them. If they didn't agree with the direction for the season and the show, they could either get on board or leave. Last season Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson were co-showrunners with Levin and Cooper. Seeing as Levin and Cooper had never been showrunners before, Souders and Peterson may actually really have been the main two but maybe with more input from Levin and Cooper. By the upfronts May 2013, Souders and Peterson were already gone. I mentioned their absence back when the upfront renewal announcements were released and they were no longer listed among Beauty's EPs. Now maybe Souders and Peterson left on their own to pursue other projects -- they don't appear to be working on another show right now but maybe they wanted a year off -- or the network and studio either dictated changes that they didn't agree with, or the network/studio let them go.
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Post by Laura on Feb 3, 2014 15:00:53 GMT -5
Levin and Cooper are not the show runners, meaning they don't have a foot to put down. They can argue for or against certain storylines, etc in the writers room but Kern, the studio and the network are above them. If they didn't agree with the direction for the season and the show, they could either get on board or leave. Last season Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson were co-showrunners with Levin and Cooper. Seeing as Levin and Cooper had never been showrunners before, Souders and Peterson may actually really have been the main two but maybe with more input from Levin and Cooper. By the upfronts May 2013, Souders and Peterson were already gone. I mentioned their absence back when the upfront renewal announcements were released and they were no longer listed among Beauty's EPs. Now maybe Souders and Peterson left on their own to pursue other projects -- they don't appear to be working on another show right now but maybe they wanted a year off -- or the network and studio either dictated changes that they didn't agree with, or the network/studio let them go. OK, thanks! Honestly, I don't know beans about the showbiz, as I'd never been a fan....until BATB So, thanks for "clarifying"
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Post by ArwenFan on Feb 3, 2014 16:20:14 GMT -5
Well, we can always call S2 a textbook titled: HOW TO KILL A GREAT SHOW IN LESS THAN 22 EPISODES.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 3, 2014 17:13:31 GMT -5
First off, Yolie dear I agree with you completely. I've said it many times before how I wish Jennifer & Sherri still had the upper hand. To me, this show has been very much a character show, and that's where the VinCat magic happens. The way they started the show seemed great to me: VinCat, JT, and Tess being the main characters, each supporting one another in every possible way. The beautiful friendships and relationships portrayed were so not typical of what we see these days on TV. Throw in the 0h-my-Gawd sizzling chemistry between KK and Jay, and what else could I be asking for? Season two happened and new writers came in and I think that's when Jennifer & Sherri should have put their foot down and controlled/watched (I don't know what other words to use) the characters' development. They created them the beautiful way the did last season, and I guess it's only natural that they know them best and completely. Had they done that, the characters would have been more true to what they were intended to be in the first place. As you said, I too like many other Beasties have spent so much time and energy on this show to just let it go now. Also, I think we are all emotionally invested in this show to a great extent, or else, there wouldn't be all these heated discussions going on; there wouldn't have been the glorious (am being sentimental again, I know!) three PCA wins against all odds! OK, I digressed, but my main point here is that I understand we can't get season 1 back, and I'm also hoping the love and magic we've been so impatiently awaiting all this season, come back and are written if not more breathtakingly than season 1, but no less. Levin and Cooper are not the show runners, meaning they don't have a foot to put down. They can argue for or against certain storylines, etc in the writers room but Kern, the studio and the network are above them. If they didn't agree with the direction for the season and the show, they could either get on board or leave. Last season Kelly Souders and Brian Peterson were co-showrunners with Levin and Cooper. Seeing as Levin and Cooper had never been showrunners before, Souders and Peterson may actually really have been the main two but maybe with more input from Levin and Cooper. By the upfronts May 2013, Souders and Peterson were already gone. I mentioned their absence back when the upfront renewal announcements were released and they were no longer listed among Beauty's EPs. Now maybe Souders and Peterson left on their own to pursue other projects -- they don't appear to be working on another show right now but maybe they wanted a year off -- or the network and studio either dictated changes that they didn't agree with, or the network/studio let them go. pippin, That's what I meant..last year they had more 'say' in what the story and storyline for VinCat would be..Now that the other producer's have gone and Kern stepped in and TPTB wanted a shift in the story they lost whatever 'little' power they had in Season 1.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 9:34:24 GMT -5
Like many others here I feel misled, betrayed, and abandoned by the hot mess that is the season 2 storyline. I won't rehash all of my issues, I think I have been pretty vocal about my discontent, but let me just say one more time, that i signed up for a story about true love and with season two have gotten nothing more than a teen melodrama. Don't get me wrong, I recognize that the production values are better - actually many things are better, but IMO the writing is worse, the characters we love - even supporting cast have fallen by the way side in favor of guest stars most of us don't particularly care for. I cannot say that I am a true fan anymore, and I will not continue to support the show or the writers or TPTB. I'm depressed by the continual love triangling and cringe-worthy story arcs. And as a very vocal season 1 fan, I find everything they have done with season 2 almost completely unbelievable. Make no mistake about it that when I say they have ruined the show for me, this much is completely true.
Honestly I don't know why I'm still watching. It's like groundhog day, and every week I tune in and return to the scene of a crime, watching silently, powerlessly as it unfolds before me. I think I hit rock bottom this week with the implied meaningless sex and melodrama about a relationship that was cut on the editing room floor. It was embarrassing and made me feel sick. it is just that I am continually surprised by the tolerance of this mess. Last night I was trying to sleep when I realized they paved the way to fake Tori's death, by showing that Ambulance speeding off, with no resolutions. I wonder if we will see an open casket or if it was planned for her to return in a few months pregnant with V.'s child. Why else was there a need for meaningless sex? Needless to say, this drove me to an even lower low. They built a house and it's foundation, then tore it all down, leaving a crater of heartache the size of our devotion, as though the fact that we had taken up residence here meant less than nothing. There is a sadness here, and indeed, I do feel abandoned with my discontent. It's a lonely place to be, but it is nice to find this small corner where we can talk openly without fear of repercussion.
I need to take back my power and get out while I still can. I have thought about writing a little, how cathartic that would be, and I'm kicking around a story in my head. Hopefully that will help with the disappointment and will bring joy to other sad beasties. I would never write a story like the one they are telling, thank goodness. I also feel, as I have said elsewhere, that I kind of missed my window to quit while I was ahead, I had the momentum during the turkey trauma, but decided to see how things played out, now I find all of my worst fears have come true… yet I'm locked in this cycle of continual disappointment. As much as I love all of you, I'm hoping that writing will free me from the ties that still bind me to this sinking ship.
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Post by Windflwr on Feb 23, 2014 16:14:16 GMT -5
You and me both, SpydancerLovesVincat! I find solace in writing my own version of Season 2 eps and I live in that world. It is my happy place, because I really do still love the characters, but as far as I'm concerned, Season 1 and Season 2 are two different shows. Hey, is there a Grumpy Beasties Facebook page or anything? Most of the groups I belong to don't want to hear negative stuff, but I think people still have a need to talk out their frustrations with like-minded other beasties.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 17:16:46 GMT -5
Every time a new episode airs, I feel more betrayed and hopeless. Seeing that they went there and put Catherine sleeping with Gabe from all people just makes me disgusted. I can't even think how someone can have such a twisted vision to have something like this on the screen. It's defense to abusive relationships in my eyes.
And it's not just that. It's the fact that the show isn't even remotely romantic anymore. Nothing in the screen is believable now, not even Vincent's realization that he still loves Catherine. When did that happen?
It's all so badly writen that I just stare at my computer and laugh. I've seen badly writen fanfics that are better than the show.
There's absolutely no depth in the characters and they only repeat the same sentence throughout the episodes as if saying the same thing over and over will convince the audience. I never watched TVD so I can't tell if this happens there. Maybe this can work in a show like that, but it doesn't work in a show like BatB.
And Kern made a point to completely erase S1. Only, if not for S1, how will we ever know that what these character say is true? Who here knows when Vincent 2.0 fell in love with Catherine? Why Catherine is calling Reynolds dad when she hates the guy? When Gabe became a guy someone should trust? When JT fell for Tess? When Tess started to reciprocate those feelings?
The only thing that interests the writers is bed hoping. There's nothing on this season besides that. It's revolting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 21:11:43 GMT -5
Revolting?
I have to wonder why you're still watching the show. Many of us have turned down expectations (or at least changed them) and are just rolling with the flow of the new show this season.
It is what it is, but I can't see any reason to get all wound up about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 22:01:02 GMT -5
Revolting? I have to wonder why you're still watching the show. Many of us have turned down expectations (or at least changed them) and are just rolling with the flow of the new show this season. It is what it is, but I can't see any reason to get all wound up about it. Isn't saying that equal to tell people they can't tell what they think about the show or that they should stop watching it? Sorry, it just didn't feel right to me. If I disagree with a person's opinion, I might argue and expose my view of it, but not say that is wrong. I hope you weren't actually saying what your post convey, but it's a little shocking.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 23:12:31 GMT -5
Please don't read between the lines and extrapolate an intention/meaning that wasn't there. As I read it again, clearly my wording wasn't.....clear. Sorry about that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 23:25:47 GMT -5
Revolting? I have to wonder why you're still watching the show. Many of us have turned down expectations (or at least changed them) and are just rolling with the flow of the new show this season. It is what it is, but I can't see any reason to get all wound up about it. @dvy123, it is not my intention to be disrespectful to you, so I will begin by apologizing beforehand if my comment offends you in any way; yet I feel I need to say that your comment does not agree or disagree with anyone's opinion, or serve to shed light on someone's comment, nor does it offer an alternate perspective....instead it very much feels like a judgement, and I am sure that was not your intention.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 23:42:40 GMT -5
Please don't read between the lines and extrapolate an intention/meaning that wasn't there. As I read it again, clearly my wording wasn't.....clear. Sorry about that. I knew that wasn't your intention; thanks for clarifying. Word choice can be such beast!
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Post by Bill the beast on Feb 27, 2014 0:32:24 GMT -5
Something funny, to me. I saw so much mention of Brad Kern that I Googled his name to find articles in which he talked about his plan for this Season-Two. Well, I got that OK.
But one of them was from 2006 titled "Has Brad Kern Ruined Charmed?" (He was producer for eight seasons)
I laughed out loud.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Mar 2, 2014 16:44:46 GMT -5
Yeah, well one could argue that he singlehandedly sunk BATB in one season or less.
You know the saddest thing of all? I barely remember anything about Season 2 other than all the things I hated. All the mythology and baddies - everything that is supposed to be the bigger story arc fades to the background. I just don't care enough to pay attention to it, because my blood is boiling from all the things I HATE that are happening in the forefront with the main characters. I don't really remember names of episodes, details, anything besides the moments that book-end my never ending disdain. I wish I had the forethought to quit while I was ahead when everything went down the crapper in the turkey trauma. Because I'm like a broken record repeating the same moments of absolute horror over and over again... I literally can't think of anything else to talk about. I mean, why does anything else matter? The show is called Beauty and the Beast, and they gave us the CW teen melodrama of the week complete with sleeping around and cringeworthy sex-triangles. I mean, I really can't look past the white noise that dominates the landscape of Season 2. If there are important story arcs and mythology, I probably forgot to pay attention because I was so tortured by the sounds of horror that are the thoughts in my head going round and round about everything I have been seeing... And God forbid someone should force me to rewatch... I get hives just thinking about it.
This really isn't a healthy relationship anymore for me... it's all pain and turmoil, with absolutely no pleasure or enjoyment.
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