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Post by oa on Jan 19, 2013 21:23:40 GMT -5
hahha, lol on vincent being the beauty and cat the beast! true that the beauty comes before the beast!
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ladyd
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Post by ladyd on Jan 19, 2013 22:49:56 GMT -5
I think that because of the main enemy, "Muirfield", a lot of their problems are always going to fall back on Vincent. Because he's the most unstable of the two it seems the writers have a lot to get out the way before they can delve further into Cat's storyline and begin to tie the two together 50/50. And with the psychiatrist coming into Cat's life, which is supposedly a recurring role, we might see more of her than people seem to think. IMHO
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Fire And Ice
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Judging TPTB @ BATB Since 2012
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Post by Fire And Ice on Jan 20, 2013 2:34:39 GMT -5
I didn't really have a reason to start watching actor-wise. I didn't plan on watching the show. I thank my mother for forcing me to sit down and watch both the BATB and Arrow pilot episodes. I think she expected me to love Arrow... instead I loved BATB.
Vincent is my fave character on the show because I like the supernatural elements of his character. I also really like the whole gov't conspiracy S/L. That being said, I think Cat is the most relateable character on the show. I don't think it's a good idea to make her play second fiddle to Vincent. The two of them should be equal. Seriously, nothing against JT, Tess, Evan, Heather, Joe, and so on. But this show is Beauty & the Beast. It should be about Beauty AND the Beast and their relationship. For that reason, I really dislike the Alex S/L and all these other love triangles they are trying to throw at us. I think there is plenty of material to delve into with Vincent and Cat that you don't need to turn this into a soap opera.
We've had Vincent flashbacks. Great. Let's get some Cat flashbacks. Her mother was killed, but why choose to become a cop over a lawyer? She could have gone on to law school to become a prosecutor. Was she hoping to solve her mother's murder and thought she'd have better access to files as a cop? Did she become a cop so she could catch (and beat up) bad guys, rather than just prosecute them for their crimes like a lawyer would? Perhaps she has some pent up anger. We know she can fight. Did she learn how to fight as a result of what happened to her mother?
They've hinted that Cat had a lot of trouble after her mom died and had to see therapists and worried her family with how "obsessed" she was with the Beast and solving her mom's murder. How soon after her mother's death did she join the force? Who was her partner before Tess? I just think it'd be great it they flushed out Cat's back story as much as they are filling out Vincent's.
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Post by dan on Jan 20, 2013 5:40:32 GMT -5
Exactly, Thank You! Cat have so many backstory that they haven`t explored.It`s weird how they said the`d be giving more backstory to Tess,Evan,and JT on the second half of the show when they haven`t really delve with the female lead`s and her independentcy first.
and i don`t really understand how in order to start Cat`s story, the writers must deal a lot with Vincent`s first. Why can`t be the two stories flow at the same time?instead of making the first 13 eps mostly about Vincent,and even if the back 9 epis will be all Cat centric(which i highly doubt), that still wouldn`t make it 50/50 would it?
When i asked them several questions during the live tweet, they never denied that so far the show has been more Vincent heavy, and when they did answer regarding the lack of Cat`s personal arc, thye din`t give reasurring answer. They never said there will be more Cat focus on the back 9,(only that she`ll be face some changelles...typical answer).If they already write the rest of the season for more cat, they`d have answered with " yes,you`re going to love the second half".
Besides, when the ex arc over,on episode 14 Vincent will be given another bigger arc that involves rescuing Cat`s sister and doing murder.The police departmen will come after him and cat will try to hide him.It started to become 'what Vincent`problem of the week and how will Cat help him' instead of balancing between the beast`s story and the beauty`s.
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Post by oa on Jan 20, 2013 8:31:38 GMT -5
that is very, very true! need more cat in the series!
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Post by evanarose on Jan 21, 2013 2:28:49 GMT -5
People have made some great points in this thread! I kind of thought Kristin had more screening time actually...or is it only me? I would think they would give Kristin more screen time, mostly for the fact that Jay mentions he spends like 3 hours plus in make-up? Though probably in terms of this forum, and publicity the beast is promoted more.. One of the reasons; well I'm guessing more fans are female, than male... Another- The issue of exploring Vincents' identity between beast and human is kinda hard to beat. Then also in this version the mutating issue... Though its sounding like in spoilers; secondary characters will be explored more as well as new characters... I don't know how would people compare the 80s version with the beast issue (too much.)? And this one? Is it the same? I haven't seen much of the 80s version..
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Post by dan on Jan 21, 2013 2:39:29 GMT -5
Well, she probably does have a little more screentime,but like i said,all of those have been dealing mostly on shallow case of the week story that noone care about and being second fiddle to Vincent`s story. The big storyline of the week has always been about the beast and left no room for Cat`s independent story arc. Would love to see that change for once in second half,but based on future spoiler that has been all about Vincent, i keep my optimism low.
Then perhaps they should change the title to "The Beast and his Beauty".
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jan 21, 2013 8:03:28 GMT -5
I don't see it as Vincent storyline taking over Catherine's...Let's be seriuos here...There wouldn't be a Vincent/Beast story without Catherine, EVERYTHING that is written about him will always lead back to HER! So screen time doesn't count it's how the story is being told. In the end it is BEAUTY and the relationship she develops with this MAN/BEAST that the show is truly about!
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Post by dan on Jan 21, 2013 22:38:08 GMT -5
Because in order to know Cat we must explore all things Vincent first? Because watching Vincent dealing with his best dillemas is actually getting to know Cat as character better? Because seeing flashback of Vincent and his love story with Alex is more about Cat than the writers actually showing viewers of Cat`s backstory post her mom murder?
yeah, I don`t think so.Vincent`s backstory is actually more about Vincent than Cat.
right..because that`s all that her character serves so far.The writers use Cat As a guide for the viewers to know the beast. Being a supporter for his story.
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Post by hcastro on Jan 22, 2013 14:00:25 GMT -5
I initially watched this show because of KK and will stick with it because I love KK....she's my girl crush and I will always support any and all things KK!!! I have to agree a bit that the focus of the show has gravitated towards Vincent especially as it pertains to this second half, but I think it's necessary at least for now to explore Vincent's back story and in that way Catherine is always going to be a main part of that because of the connection of her mother to Vincent.
I want to see more of Catherine too and would love to know more about her apart from her relationship with Vincent, but Catherine/Vincent will always be tied together so their stories will always overlap. The show is "Beauty and the Beast" after all and whether they focus on Cat or Vincent, either one of them will always be in the mix. What's disappointing to me is the lack of pics/spoilers about Catherine in the next couple of episodes. All the coverage is about Vincent/Ex which also includes Catherine, but I want to know what else Catherine is up to besides all this triangle angst. My hope at least is that the lack of news/spoilers indicates there is more for Catherine than the writers are willing to reveal at this time.
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Fire And Ice
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Post by Fire And Ice on Jan 23, 2013 1:20:37 GMT -5
It's okay if there is overlap. The show is about Beauty and the Beast. So both of them being featured is to be expected in this show. However, Cat shouldn't turn into a Mary Sue character. I think that's dan's concern here.
I think the cop aspect of Cat's job hasn't been written well so far. What have you really learned thanks to the cases? How she should give Vincent a chance...that's about it. As a result, I really have no interest in what happens at the precinct or any of the characters there.
Cat wants to avenge her mother's death? Show me. Look at early Supernatural. I'm talking 1st or 2nd season before they decided to transition the show to demon hunting and then angels... You had clear storytelling that showed you why Sam and Dean did what they were doing - to avenge their mother (and for Sam, his fiancee as well). Look at Grimm first and second season, that is a fine example of a supernatural police procedural on TV right now. That show makes it work. Also, even though "Nick" is the main character, all of the other characters have defined personalities. On BATB, so far, we just have a bunch of stereotypes and the characters beyond Vincent and sorta Cat have no meat to them. I guess the closest would be JT.
Tess is just around to go "Where have you been, Cat?" or "Who's the guy?" Oh and to try to keep throwing Cat at Evan...
Heather is around to make Cat's life look boring...or, at least, to make Cat seem more virginal, level-headed, and mature since Heather is sleeping with everyone and acts really immature.
Evan is around to make Vincent jealous...and I guess we're sort of now seeing that somehow a medical examiner has the time to track mutant DNA. Yeah, right. Maybe if he had other people working in the lab, but if the JT thing is to be believed...no one works there except Evan. Oh, except, that in that same episode, there's a shot of Evan and in the background is an extra in a lab coat...that extra conveniently disappears when it's time for JT to be in the lab. Oh, TPTB @ BATB and continuity...not their strong suit.
Joe is around to show that there isn't one old person on the NYPD...not even the chief. Has anyone noticed they all look to be around the same age? Is this Dexter...? or Bones...? Oh and so he can tell everyone in a commanding voice to go out and do their jobs. Or to tell him what they've found out after like 30 seconds of getting on the scene. BTW, why is he going to crime scenes? Doesn't he know that his position is mostly a desk job...unless it's high profile.
And JT, the most flushed out character, has given up his social life to hang with Vincent and not really be in hiding at all. That's pretty much it. That's his character. Oh and suddenly he's becoming comical and less moody...despite the fact that they are still in hiding and now Muirfield knows Vincent is still in NYC. Because apparently he can't go anywhere else in the world then go back to where he was before the war...which is the first place anyone would look for him. And I'm sorry. What is on the show is not being in hiding. The fact that Vincent & JT live in a NYC warehouse is hiding? Um, what? They are off the grid? Really? JT teaches at a college and Cat and Tess found him in like 5 minutes. Plus JT Skypes at the warehouse and has internet so...not off the grid. Oh and his cell phone is always on. But I guess we should go with its off the grid because it's sort of run down. I mean it only has a few leather sofas and HD big screen TVs. The monstrosity!!
So all we've had is Vincent's issues, Cat trying to help Vincent, and their love story. Now they are taking away their love story for 4 episodes...so we pretty much have nada. I really hope that Cat doesn't sit around thinking about Vincent and being all mopey these next 4 episodes. You know what would be nice? Cat does something, non-Vincent or JT-related and non-work related. I don't care if she's working on her needlework as long as I see that this girl has some sort of life beyond pining after Vincent.
Okay, I think this has been ranty enough. I refrained from adding GIFs...but I almost think this post could've used them. haha. I will throw in the disclaimer that I enjoy this show despite its many flaws. I just hope that the PCA win encourages the writers to strive for better S/Ls so we can attract new viewers & keep the viewers we have, especially those with Nielson boxes. I don't want to see a show with this much potential cancelled.
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Post by dan on Jan 23, 2013 5:18:44 GMT -5
Fire and Ice I`m not sure where you get the marry sue thing but the following description above doesn`t exactly make Cat a marry sue.. Regarding the overlap,there`s no denie that V and C are link to each other but so far it`s more that Vincent`s story that being told and it overlap Cat`s instead of Cat`s story that is being told and it overlap with Vincent`s. There should be some balance there.I agree that the the case of the week story were weak and somewhat disjointed though..
I think the writers already established that Cat has pretty much moved on from that But the execution of that arc was poorly done. Finding the truth behind her mom murder was Cat`s only arc but we didn`t even see her did much investigating as she did helping Vincent.When she did finally decided to move on on 'Trapped', they had to make that episode Vincent centric. The resolution of her arc had to be the backstory to Vincent`s flashback and finding the temporary cure for his blackouts.They`should`ve made that ep revolved on Cat if that was supposed to be the closure to her only independent arc thus far.
Wouldn`t that be terrible if all she will be doing during the next 4 episodes pining after Vincent . I too wonder what she`ll be doing. During Alex`s arc Cat is supposedly on recovery from her gunshot wound and the NYPD wouldn`t let her work until she heals and based on ep description everyone(Vincent w Alex, Evan w JT, Tess and Joe) but Cat will be busy and have something to do. From the spoiler we know they`ll be giving her a shrink so will she whines about her feelings to Vincent(while he`s off with alex) during those sessions? i hope not.
I really wish they wouldn`t make her whinny during those episodes.Poor Cat not only will she have to deal with a shrink but also has to help Vioncent and Alex all through episode 10 to 12.
Save #1: Seeing red, we know from the spoiler images Alex will be in some sort of trouble and Vincent will help her and probably also ask Cat for help as she was seen on the trailer holding gun in her apartment.While also have to witness V and His getting close to a kissing distance.
Save #2: On Thin Ice, Vincent and Alex on a ice skating ring,they get caught by the polices and the only was they can get out of that by Cat`s help through her connection w the police department.And she would have to find out that they were on a date.More heartache for poor cat.
Save #3: Cold Turkey, Based on the official description it`s prettyy much confirmed that Cat will save the day again.Whether she likes it or not will have to disturb Vinlex`s romantic cabin getaways (eeew)
Once save by Cat is to be expected but Three times in a row?That`s just torture...lol
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Fire And Ice
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Post by Fire And Ice on Jan 23, 2013 15:47:03 GMT -5
[h] Fire and Ice I`m not sure where you get the marry sue thing but the following description below doesn`t exactly make Cat a marry sue.. Regarding the overlap,there`s no denie that V and C are link to each other but so far it`s more that Vincent`s story that being told and it overlap Cat`s instead of Cat`s story that is being told and it overlap with Vincent`s. There should be some balance there.I agree that the the case of the week story were weak and somewhat disjointed though..[/quote] I am referring to what "Mary Sue" is now referred to - best example, Bella Swan. A character that has very little dimension that is basically a placeholder for women to place themselves in her shoes so easily. I'm not sure Cat is fully there, but is in danger of becoming so because we're getting episode after episode and no development or flushing out of who her character is...except as it relates to Vincent. I guess we get that she has bad taste in men...but somehow even though she's attracting jerks, she has no ability to strike up a convo with guys (remember the firemen?) but she's super confidant and witty around Evan... it basically doesn't make any sense. So instead it can come across as basically fantasy-fulfillment for the female viewers especially. I think the writers already established that Cat has pretty much moved on from that But the execution of that arc was poorly done. Finding the truth behind her mom murder was Cat`s only arc but we didn`t even see her did much investigating as she did helping Vincent.When she did finally decided to move on on 'Trapped', they had to make that episode Vincent centric. The resolution of her arc had to be the backstory to Vincent`s flashback and finding the temporary cure for his blackouts.They`should`ve made that ep revolved on Cat if that was supposed to be the closure to her only independent arc thus far. We saw her talk to the gravestone and say that she was going to basically help Vincent/fix what her mom did because that's what her mom would've done if she had lived. Sort of like "I'm taking up on where you left off." Again. Sorta. Like you said, it wasn't that great of an execution of that scene...well, until Vincent showed up. Than the scene got good. But again, because it was all the relationship and no longer just what Cat was going through. Sidenote - is she really over her mom's death? Because it seems to me that she isn't. The show is about them "saving each other," so... I think it just seems like we're moving on from the mom because we have no recent ties to Muirfield. Since JT, Cat, and Vincent killed a bunch of agents, we've heard nothing more. Muirfield is coming back, so I have a feeling this will dredge up more Cat's mom stuff...maybe we'll even find out who at Muirfield ordered her mom to be killed. All of that would be interesting, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. I really hope it isn't just more "Oh no. Vincent's in trouble let's hide him" or "Let's kill all those agents too and just forget about Muirfield for another few episodes." Wouldn`t that be terrible if all she will be doing during the next 4 episodes pining after Vincent . I too wonder what she`ll be doing. During Alex`s arc Cat is supposedly on recovery from her gunshot wound and the NYPD wouldn`t let her work until she heals and based on ep description everyone(Vincent w Alex, Evan w JT, Tess and Joe) but Cat will be busy and have something to do. From the spoiler we know they`ll be giving her a shrink so will she whines about her feelings to Vincent(while he`s off with alex) during those sessions? i hope not. I really wish they wouldn`t make her whinny during those episodes.Poor Cat not only will she have to deal with a shrink but also has to help Vioncent and Alex all through episode 10 to 12. Yeah, I just want to see her have something beyond just Vincent. Can we see random friends stopping by to check on her? Heather being a crazy sister and talking about maybe how their mom used to act when they were little...maybe their mom always made chicken soup and then Cat would watch cartoons. I don't need to see it all play out necessarily on screen. I just want to see that she is strong enough on her own. Not saying I don't want Vincent to show up. Jerk should totally show up. And I pretty much think I'll hate him for the next 4 episodes because of this Alex nonsense... but I'd like to see some development of Cat's character. In regards to talk to the shrink, I hope it all isn't just her talking about Vincent even in innuendo form. Save #1: Seeing red, we know from the spoiler images Alex will be in some sort of trouble and Vincent will help her and probably also ask Cat for help as she was seen on the trailer holding gun in her apartment.While also have to witness V and His getting close to a kissing distance. Save #2: On Thin Ice, Vincent and Alex on a ice skating ring,they get caught by the polices and the only was they can get out of that by Cat`s help through her connection w the police department.And she would have to find out that they were on a date.More heartache for poor cat. Save #3: Cold Turkey, Based on the official description it`s prettyy much confirmed that Cat will save the day again.Whether she likes it or not will have to disturb Vinlex`s romantic cabin getaways (eeew) Once save by Cat is to be expected but Three times in a row?That`s just torture...lol I guess they are trying to show that it's not just Vincent saving Cat over and over, but that she can save him too... but all this side story with an Ex. I just hate it. Not just because I want "VinCat" but mainly because I don't see a purpose for it AT ALL. It really just seems like something to tear them apart for the next 4 episodes. That's it. Really? How does this move the S/L ahead? It doesn't.
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Post by dan on Jan 23, 2013 18:45:30 GMT -5
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ladyd
Rookie Cop
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Post by ladyd on Jan 23, 2013 19:17:19 GMT -5
I'll admit that I don't like that we haven't heard any news on what Catherine is doing during this "Valex" situation in the next four episodes, but I seriously doubt she'll be completely ignored.
I don't really understand why everyone seems so worried. Every primetime show I've ever watched has a tendency to juggle focus between characters. When the show first started, we saw Catherine more than anything and each episode was focused primarily on her feelings.
I think it's actually a good thing to get some of Vincent's backstory out of the way now so that we don't have to keep hearing about it in the future. I certainly do miss seeing KK kick serious ass, but I have faith that the writers will have good material for her too. Let's not forget that they seem to be sticking with this "case-of-the-week" thing and those are more focused on Catherine, her job and her work friends. Plus, all of the cast additions, except Alex, will probably have much more interaction with Catherine than Vincent.
The writers kind of have their work cut out for them with a storyline where the male lead is in hiding and the female lead has a full life and career. I'm sure they're just trying to give him something to do rather than just sitting in a warehouse with JT. I'm pretty sure Catherine's personal struggles are coming too. we just have to wait a little while.
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