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Post by valbatbforever on Jun 4, 2016 6:07:52 GMT -5
I agree with many things you say. Of course, since I did not expect too much to begin with - after the mostly disappointing S3 (disappointing for me that is), so it was actually quite enjoyable. Why do you say that Catherine was NEVER out of the US? Do we know this for sure? Just because Brad Kern mind-altered our Catherine in S2 into being submissive, agreeing-with-everything the slimebag ADA said and suggested to her, does not mean that Mexico was the first time she was out of the country. She only said that she has never been to MEXICO. Catherine is the daughter of affluent parents, so it could very well be that for graduation they gave her a trip to Paris and to prepare for that she just might have learned the language. Just saying. You're right. I don't know if her affluent parents sent her on a European tour and maybe she studied French all through school, but I shouldn't have to fill in the blanks. There should have been some signs of these skills and experiences prior to the French honeymoon, which BTW, was extremely clichéd and not representative of our formerly uniquely romantic couple. Vincat has pretty much been ruined for me. They didn't feel real to me. Maybe it's just been too long between seasons as well as the move from romance to beast adventure crime stories. Or maybe I just fell in love with other TV couples...Reign's Francis & Mary, Outlander's Claire & Jamie...whatever the reason I didn't feel the passion for or between Vincent & Catherine. I'm agreed with somerhing miss it... I'm dissapointed with this ep 4x1. The story line is not a surprise and so far to the essence from BATB. I don't andestand why v didn't use heartbeat or tracking like for Sam.And Catherine's fight was so unreal!!! I'm sad bcse i lost my best show during S3 S2 was better even i didn't like Tory's arc. ?
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 4, 2016 11:34:06 GMT -5
Had we not had S3, I probably would be far more in agreement with Arwenfan, bbatb and others. But as I have said earlier, I went ahead and set the expectation bar low.
I liked the honeymoon in France for its tongue-in-cheek nod to the original true Beauty and the Beast storyline. The actual French beauty really WAS named Catherine, and showing that particular castle in the background just paid tribute to that story and BATB origins.
I agree about Season 2 references to a point. Is the 217 prison scene with VinCat powerful, YES. But they stood to lose everything in that moment, and it was one of those do-or-die decision making scenes where they seriously discussed what their life could look like moving forward. Serious, well-thought out, and SO ROMANTIC. They got the dialogue PERFECT in that scene, which made Jay and KK take it that much farther when they put words on a script into action. But REMEMBER, we had Sherri and Jenn at that point who just knew how to make scenes like that work WITHOUT repetitive dialogue.
But you can't do S2-like scenes anyway in 401 on the honeymoon prior to the threat. VinCat WOULD naturally be light and breezy and happy. Without a care in the world. And cute with one another. I liked that aspect. Could it have been done better and more meaningful? Sure. But I appreciated the humor and lightness of the moment that conveyed general contentment and happiness. I LIKE seeing VinCat able to just have fun AND show the underlying abiding friendship and easiness around one another that is at the core of their love.
YES, they have talked about the threats of exposure to death. But they are facing it together without bickering. Which is certainly better than S3.
(Quite frankly, if I had my druthers about it, I think the FANS could write better VinCat dialogue. I wasn't crazy about Vincent seemingly wanting to be out-and-about seeing the French countryside rather than enjoying the comforts of the honeymoon bed anymore than the next romantic watching the scene. I had to go for enjoying the humor. BUT THE SCENE COULD have been so much more serious, romantic, and loving between VinCat--think subway scene from S1.
Here is my scenario that I WOULD HAVE LIKE TO SEE:
--The dialogue would have produced a FAR more romantic feel to it had Vincent said that he was looking forward to being able to take Cat out into the light and be with her in the open. See places with her and enjoy each and every moment that he has with her to cram as much life in as possible. He spent over a quarter of his LIFE having to hide from the world and even hide from Catherine at first, afraid that he could hurt her or be a threat to her or lead other threats to her. Vincent could have said then that he wanted to spend the rest of his life making beautiful memories, living life to the fullest with her, enjoying every new experience that they encounter in their lives and giving her the life they both want and deserve.
--Catherine could have been touched then and replied something to the effect that every moment with him, rather running or otherwise, was worth it. And she regrets none of the hardships that gave him to her. And that she'll love him through "worse" if their lives took that turn again, no matter what threats may come or even if she HAD to live with him in hiding for the rest of whatever life they can have together. That all the fancy scenery in the world only becomes truly meaningful to her because she experiences it with him. You could then have her say that when he puts it like that, why don't they go out and see new things and make new memories of the world outside in the light together. Then have VINCENT say maybe after round three, as Catherine has just reminded him of WHY being shut up in a room with her has quite lovely possibilities WITHOUT the scenery. . . .
You give me the above, then the accident scene and threat of exposure becomes MORE thereafter. If the above style of dialogue had been used, THEN the accident would have been more poignant moving forward. Because the THREAT of living a life in hiding is that much closer, everytime Vincent uses his abilities.
BUT you COULD have had Catherine add that she will NEVER regret Vincent saving people---after all, it is how THEY met.)
So YEAH, if I think about what I WANT on my screen, I will inevitably be disappointed. My bar is so very low---just give me better than S3. Give me VinCat looks and their talk of being happy together and it is STILL better than last year. AGAIN, they are going for HUMOR rather than serious romance, but it would be hard for the actors to remain in that serious Mode all the time.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 4, 2016 12:39:06 GMT -5
Knowing what the current writing/producing team is capable of, the barometer for me is also S3. With that as my gauge, I'm happy with this first episode.
Anyone hoping for the kind of writing Jen & Sherri produced in S1/S2 will no doubt be disappointed. I came to terms with that reality early on in S3, which allowed me to continue to enjoy what the show had become, despite being a totally different show from what it once was.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 4, 2016 13:10:21 GMT -5
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 4, 2016 13:22:58 GMT -5
More reviews: www.spoilertv.com/2016/06/beauty-and-beast-monsieur-et-madame.html Overall observation: Right off the bat, the writing in this episode feels more solid and purposeful than the somewhat shapeless plotlines of early Season 3. Instead of dropping vague hints and repeating the same lines over and over, here's hoping that Season 4 will continue on the stronger notes this episode promised, with follow-through on who has initiated the hunt for Vincent and why.cartermatt.com/208671/beauty-beast-season-4-episode-1-review-stage-set-new-threat/When “Beauty and the Beast” is not obsessed with the preoccupation that its characters can be normal, it remains a lot of fun. Kristin Kreuk and Jay Ryan continue to have great history, and we like that there is some sort of advance warning that the end of the series is near. After all, that gives us something to build to. Grade: B.
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Post by pippin on Jun 4, 2016 13:26:13 GMT -5
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Post by pippin on Jun 4, 2016 13:40:24 GMT -5
Review from Showbuzzdaily www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/showbuzzdaily-season-premiere-review-beauty-the-beast-2.htmlSo many fantasy adventures have hit the air since Beauty & the Beast arrived in 2012 that the show seems even more negligible than it did when it started. Its characters have never been particularly deep, its production values are paltry even for CW (the newlyweds’ brief “French” honeymoon in the season premiere was particularly sad), and the plotting (under more than one set of showrunners) has sometimes been woeful. It developed a certain comfort food quality over time, though, especially once the writers realized that Vincent and Catherine were more appealing as rom-com leads than as brooding and miserable, and the actors bring some charm to their roles. On balance, however, it seems best for all concerned that soon all of us will be able to move on to new things, before the series finds itself going hopelessly around in circles
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 4, 2016 13:56:45 GMT -5
Hi, alwayscrazedbatbfan; bet you thought I'd flown the coop forever. These proboard forums don't play nice with my browsers for whatever reasons, and I don't have a lot of patience with them during off seasons. This type of cheap bone thrown at the fans doesn't please me in the least. The heart of the show was scrapped a long time ago and it's crystal clear to me that they have no intention of pleasing the devoted fanbase in the series' final season. So, don't. fan-bait. me. It's already happened once this season with another show I used to watch, and I will not tolerate it ever again. Actually, CW better be glad I'm even tuning in because I am totally pissed off with commercial network television and have stopped watching everything I followed. And this makes it better or more acceptable how? It doesn't, and really insults the intelligence and goodwill of the people who are even bothering to watch this crap into the summer. They as professionals should want to offer their best writing skills whether it's the first season or the last. They should want the fans to be fully engaged and entertained by the characters and their stories. These people clearly don't give a hoot about the show or its fans. I have no idea who they are playing to, but it sure ain't me. Review from Showbuzzdaily www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/showbuzzdaily-season-premiere-review-beauty-the-beast-2.htmlSo many fantasy adventures have hit the air since Beauty & the Beast arrived in 2012 that the show seems even more negligible than it did when it started. Its characters have never been particularly deep, its production values are paltry even for CW (the newlyweds’ brief “French” honeymoon in the season premiere was particularly sad), and the plotting (under more than one set of showrunners) has sometimes been woeful. It developed a certain comfort food quality over time, though, especially once the writers realized that Vincent and Catherine were more appealing as rom-com leads than as brooding and miserable, and the actors bring some charm to their roles. On balance, however, it seems best for all concerned that soon all of us will be able to move on to new things, before the series finds itself going hopelessly around in circlesThe writers were woefully misguided. I am not nor have I ever been a fan of romantic comedies. They suck and so do the writers who embraced this theme. <--This is my opinion. And the actors brought it in every scene when they were "brooding and miserable." God, I hate the CW.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 4, 2016 17:06:57 GMT -5
ArwenFan, Welcome Back!!
I have been waiting for my absolute favorite person to quarrel with (insert imagined emoticon thingie where the smiley face eagerly and yet somewhat sinisterly rubs its hands together, preparing auditory missiles for immediate deployment. . . .)!
And hey, I have learned to live with the fact that the CW only throws me bones every now and then. So I'll take the historical references in the honeymoon. The CW has shown that they completely lack creativity and are not willing to really challenge such wonderful talent as KK and Jay.
(And, by the by, you still watch other CW shows?? At least I can say I have learned my lesson. They have me with BATB. That is all. Still mad for what they did to my beloved little show, and I can and will hold a grudge against them. As I said earlier, they won't get me to watch another show from them.)
And I do agree with you that KK and Jay have ALWAYS beautifully played those particularly poignant, sad yet romantic scenes like the Subway Scene from S1, the art studio scene from "Worth" and the prison scene from 217's "Beast is the New Black." But without Sherri and Jenn, there is no way the current team could sustain those kinds of scenes. They were nowhere present in S3. Which will lead me to believe that it really WAS all Sherri and Jenn's doing that made so many beautiful moments in S1 and even in S2.
But BATB IS my COMFORT FOOD, as that reviewer eluded to. And I stand by the statement that 401 was better than the entire S3. You are correct in part in basically saying that the bar should be set higher in that we deserve some of those great moments and scenes from S1 and S2. But we ain't gettin' em, not with the current team AND with the CW and their current "dare to defy" comic-book like genre-happy shows.
It all comes down to just WHAT you compare episode 401 to. If you look back at favorite S1 moments, then it appears a pale and cheap imitation. I went down that angry road in S3 increasingly as it played out on my screen. But in re-evaluating at the end of that season, I still decided that BATB post-Jenn/Sherri is still better than nothing at all. BARELY, at that time. I'll admit that.
And had I known what S3 looked like upfront, I might HAVE been one of those that quit watching. Then again, KK and Jay somehow keep me coming back, and the little moments in 401 are enough to keep me around. I missed them. Mightily. So practically cried like a baby in watching the prodigal couple return to my screen.
So if you take it for what you know is the current platform and direction of both Kern and the CW, then 401 was acceptable and even enjoyable in that 1) KK and Jay make the MOST out of what they are given in the script, 2) accept that comedy and humor have been part of the new emphasis of BATB since the end even of S2 but especially in S3, and 3) be glad that VinCat is NOT acting like spoiled, shallow-minded teenagers tattling on one another to that therapist from in S3.
Sadly, I did live for the little moments in 401 that once upon a time could have been ignored or less-enjoyable fodder for a much more drawn-out scene. But the action-packed punching-the-bad-guy scenes are going to be there moving forward. They are going by Formula now which yes, means we miss something.
But I still like what little they give me. Maybe BECAUSE Jay and KK can still play the fear for one another and intense love for one another that occasionally still resonates in their FACES and body language if not in the dialogue.
Yes, I also miss the better-coordinated action scenes like in "Cold Turkey" that had realistic fighting, for the most part, between VinCat and the Muirfield agents while having pre and post-battle verbal VinCat sparring. And the acting that went into that--Cat going from angry/resentful to understanding and commiseration wtih Vincent in the same scene as she watched Muirfield, yet again, keep Vincent from having a couples weekend with his ex-fiance. Cat was hurt by Vincent's choice, but she came to understand why Vincent was trying to hide and be normal (ALTHOUGH SHE NEVER HAD to prat on and on about "normal") to someone. And she felt sorry that he had to "hide from her [Alex]."
But the absolute PRICELESSNESS of that scene was in the IMPLICATION that Vincent DIDN'T ever have to hide from Cat. That CAT really appreciated and loved Vincent for ALL of him. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL, Cat WANTED to build Vincent up to someone that wasn't ashamed of what he was--she recognized the good and decency in his actions even when he was a Beast. It really WAS Vincent's problem, not hers, as she says. Her "normal" was just day-by-day living, without focusing on what they could be missing. That was Vincent messing up and not valuing just what he had with Catherine at the time in order to fall back upon the known, boring threadbare standard relationship he had before that CLEARLY lacked the passion that Cat could elicit so easily from him. (Oh S1, how much I miss you. . . .)
So when you contrast the above scene from "Cold Turkey" with the pier scene in 401, ouch! That poignant and insightful dialogue into one another's psyches is gone for VinCat. I guess we are to assume that they already know each other souls thru and thru, so there is no need to hash it out in words anymore! But the LOOKS were there. And Cat's clear terror for Vincent and the discovery of his identity by the Hunter---she worries more for him than for herself in that moment. And THAT SENTIMENT was in line with what I loved from S1's "Cold Turkey." And what I loved from Cat in general in S1--that she really would make any insane sacrifice to her career or even her life due to her love for Vincent and her desire to keep him safe. And vice versa. That WAS what I loved about them in the first place---their moral fiber, strength of character, and refusal to back down against incredible odds. And love one another whether feasible or not. Take the moments where they could.
And Vincent's sheer terror, remorse and fear when he confronts JT and Tess after Cat has been snatched. I LOVED the VULNERABILITY of Vincent in that scene. Reminded me of Cat when coming to her realizations with the shrink in S1. YES, I wished there was better dialogue AND Vincent discussing this with Cat in a similar fashion from 102, 104 and again, "Cold Turkey."
They no longer have time for those meaningful little VinCat scenes that occur in 217 and the above-mentioned episodes due to the dang Formula that has been with us since S3. BUT I have enough of the old still filtering in despite itself to IMAGINE a bit better than what I get on my screen. And to still love KK and Jay TRYING to give more than what was given to them on the script page.
We have so little time left with BATB that I will see it through and probably find hints of things past enough to make me appreciate having a wee bit more left.
And time, of course, to quarrel over scenes with you, ArwenFan. (And Catherine was just WAY better and smarter than Vincent in the episode. Really. Take that. Idiot Vincent wanting to prattle around on a bike when he COULD have been enjoying passionate engagements of the physical kind with Cat in their hotel room. And WHY would they get a hotel room in the first place---LIVE a little with that beastly self, Vincent! Have fun destroying the furniture and marking your territory since it is not like you and Cat ever really got that much lovin' time, given the events of the last three seasons!. HeeHeeHee!). But glad you are back and still watching, ArwenFan!
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Post by dan on Jun 4, 2016 17:39:12 GMT -5
I know why CW cancelled it. The dialouges and storyline got repettive, they've hit a brick wall & couldn"t figured out how to move past it.
and what? Beasthunter?So I take it the entire season is going to be about people chasing Vincient.AGAIN.what a surprise.
Couldn't it be a Cat-Hunter instead? That way at least we have a season more focus on Cat, hell I dont even mind if she got killed at the end, as long as we have more Cat centric year, like the original. Why is never the target? Why is she never the one everyone focusing over? Right..right I got it, cause Vincent is lot more important than the Beauty herself. She's not interesting.
I don't even need to watch next episode promo to know it's going to be about Vincent having another beast issues, or trying to adjust with normal.married life.
Maybe Cat will get oone centric episode if she's lucky.like last season. It's a little sad, though. This maybe the only show where KK ever gonna got the first billing and exec prod tittle but the show wasnt even about her.She only played the supportive girlfriend. Just like in smallvile.
Au revoir, Beast!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 4, 2016 17:45:30 GMT -5
Review from Showbuzzdaily www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/showbuzzdaily-season-premiere-review-beauty-the-beast-2.htmlSo many fantasy adventures have hit the air since Beauty & the Beast arrived in 2012 that the show seems even more negligible than it did when it started. Its characters have never been particularly deep, its production values are paltry even for CW (the newlyweds’ brief “French” honeymoon in the season premiere was particularly sad), and the plotting (under more than one set of showrunners) has sometimes been woeful. It developed a certain comfort food quality over time, though, especially once the writers realized that Vincent and Catherine were more appealing as rom-com leads than as brooding and miserable, and the actors bring some charm to their roles. On balance, however, it seems best for all concerned that soon all of us will be able to move on to new things, before the series finds itself going hopelessly around in circles"Comfort Food" - that's a good way to put it! We all know this show is far from being top quality television, but we just can't stay away. LOL.
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Jun 4, 2016 18:14:29 GMT -5
It's been awhile since I posted here. I must admit season 3 killed a lot of my passion for the show. I still love it, but the passion is gone.
That being said Thurs reignited my passion for it. I loved how VinCat interacted. Their chemistry was off the charts. Honeymoons & rooftops, thank you writers.
Heather always amuses me and I think she has far more chemistry than Tess & JT. Don't get me wrong, I love both JT & Tess, but not together. I really wish they never went full speed with that relationship, but I guess the budget is tight to have recurring LI outside of the main cast.
As for the Bounty Hunter, I thought it was a unique way to have there be tension, without rolling out some major convoluted plot. Plus Cat's kickass scenes defending herself were amazing. I don't mind BaTB becoming more of action based show. I did mind the repetitiveness of s3 and the lack of a good villain. But I will never miss the opportunity to watch Cat & Vincent in the field. I do wonder if they will bring Muirfield back. It really was a good villain without being too out there in mysticism with s3 and the connected through ancestors part, which did require a lot of stretching of the imagination.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 4, 2016 19:45:50 GMT -5
I agree that it would be lovely to bring back in the remnants of Muirfield. Would be interesting coming back full-circle.
After all, no way all those scientists and trained agents just disappeared, retired or voluntarily faded into the woodwork. They most likely got government jobs, since agents in the FBI (like Reynolds) were protecting them in the first place. OR they could have found a home with some of those 1%ers that funded the experiments that killed Sam's child. We learned in 201 and more specifically in 202 that there was a Black Market for Beasts, with the going rate for that particular beast as what, 6 million dollars for that drug kingpen? So Vincent WAS right in saying he should be worth MORE than 5 million!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 4, 2016 19:55:27 GMT -5
And Dan, preaching to the choir here.
I have long wanted Cat to have her OWN connection to the beast mythology other than a long-dead ancestor. If that leap of hers in 401 was any indication, she ought to have some special little genetic tweaks all her own that maybe her mother sought to cover-up by pursuing beast and gene-related research.
Still the CW is unlikely to ever go that route with Catherine, given the current use of the Formula for episodes that they seem to like and live by. BUT KK is such a wonderful actress that she makes the MOST out of the scenes for Catherine. She never just phones it in. Her emotional range throughout scenes in 401 helped make me realize WHY I still watch BATB. And she and Jay just never lack for chemistry.
I still love Cat's confidence and her take-charge attitude. It was HER plan that Vincent followed in 401. And Vincent nearly fell apart upon losing her while Cat never lost focus, even when that Bounty Hunter had her trussed up like a dairy cow ready for slaughter. So KK is not just the "girlfriend" in this show. Catherine remains the driving force behind the Beast and the confident-in-her-life and choices person that I fell in love with in S1.
It is what it is. I might want MORE, but I will settle for and enjoy what I get, if S4 continues on in the same vein as 401. It still is better than S3 for me. Yeah, I know, now I am sounding repetitive in harping that it is better than S3, but that is the bar for me.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jun 4, 2016 20:21:57 GMT -5
And Dan, preaching to the choir here.
I have long wanted Cat to have her OWN connection to the beast mythology other than a long-dead ancestor. If that leap of hers in 401 was any indication, she ought to have some special little genetic tweaks all her own that maybe her mother sought to cover-up by pursuing beast and gene-related research.
I would have loved this storyline. I wanted to believe that Cat had a little something, something that came from Vanessa that drew her so close with Vincent. Plus, Vincent (as a Beast) was attracted to Catherine since the first time he saw her in the woods. I know there is LOVE and all the ancestry, but there just had to be something special between Vincent and Catherine. Welcome back dan!
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