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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 3, 2016 16:20:26 GMT -5
BTS shot of 401
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 3, 2016 16:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 3, 2016 17:28:44 GMT -5
BeastieBoy,
You do, of course, realize that you will NEVER be able to live down that Kyle vs. Vincent comment, right?
And, um, what are you basing your qualifications on? I mean, the guy could hardly TALK to Heather. And he mentions that she took a BAD fall, yet he is willing to make her injuries worse THE DAY AFTER said fall by engaging in rather strenuous. . .er. . "activity" with Heather that could have (should have) worsened her injuries? (Although, granted, based on the sounds from VinCat's bedroom, Heather was not overly in any pain that she was complaining about!!. . . .)
Frankly, though, I LOVE the idea of Kyle working in the same HOSPITAL as Vincent. Don't you KNOW that Kyle was just cringing internally when he put together who Heather is NOW connected to by marriage?
So I would dearly love a scene where Vincent passes Kyle in the hallway of the ER and says, "hello, despoiler of my sister" or some such comment. But there is just not enough episode time to give us all what we would love to see on our screens, sadly.
As to the ratings, who other than Beasties even knew BATB was coming back on?? Even TVGUIDE put NOTHING in about BATB in the actual magazine that went out to consumers. In THIS WEEK's TVGUIDE, they list "Summer Shows" BY MONTH, and NOTHING is said AT ALL about BATB. It is not featured in anyway. If you look at the Thursday grid, it says something like "continuation of final season." So even TVGUIDE has given nothing in what goes out to customers.
And based on what the CW did to BATB, I won't watch another CW show. Maybe that is petty of me, but I don't like SO MUCH about how they have handled BATB over the course of its run. But the CW hasn't advertised the show that much before, so I doubt it did this time either.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 3, 2016 17:44:11 GMT -5
Last thing BeastieBoy--
You hit the nail on the head about Heather. I was laughing my rear-end off with Heather's actions as the episode played out. I generally like Heather, especially since she is the only family Cat really has left and adds that dynamic for Cat. But the "unrealistic" aspects of the episode as a whole had me thinking by its end. With the decisions that Heather is making throughout the episode, she is likely to get herself or the others killed off, and I was rather ticked off with her behavior all the way around by episode's end. Whether fair or not, you HAVE to be more careful of who you let into your life AND your SISTER's apartment, given what is at stake. But Heather just leaps before she looks (literally and figuratively in this episode) while seemingly aimless and adrift. And disastrously careless. But you are right in that JT was NO BETTER, and he has had OVER A DECADE more of dealing with Beast Issues than Heather so should have known not to go the route they did.
And why didn't the Beast Hunter yank JT back into the apartment and kill him then and there? IT IS New York, NOT Canada, at least in the series. So there are no real polite good Samaritans likely to help out JT if he screamed in reality. And this guy was willing to kidnap Cat in BROAD DAYLIGHT in a crowd, so I can't see him just leaving JT like he did.
As to Cat's leap---you have her successfully be able to jump up BUT she can't jump DOWN successfully? But again, you have ALWAYS had to suspend your disbelief with our beloved little show. Adrenaline does wonders. AND if the CW would ever go wtih my preference, Cat would have some supernatural reasons all her own to be able to do what she does. But she IS fit and well-trained, AND I loved how she just never gives up. Or waits for someone to save her.
PLUS, Cat was MOTIVATED to get safe to protect Vincent as well. So LOVE made the Great Leap of Faith in my own little humble opinion. She knew Vincent needed the info regarding the million-dollar bounty and that this was a potentially ORGANIZED attempt to get Vincent. So she determined to save herself and get that information back to Vincent. So she found her Little Olympian in herself!
Still love the episode for the implications of Love, Friendship and Sacrifice to promote one to do the unthinkable. Just shouldn't really try to THINK the episode through too much!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 3, 2016 17:58:35 GMT -5
Really really last thing BeastieBoy:
Like you, I believe it was RIDICULOUS to write-off Muirfield SO quickly when it had been a driving-force for SO many years and well-entrenched into the FBI/government. ALL those scientists and agents running around---and they ALL just disappeared into the woodwork? And Sam was able to stop that WHOLE 1% conspiracy group that included Muirfield's very foundational experiments?
PLUS, Season 2 showed that there was a whole BLACK MARKET for selling beasts for what, 6 million dollars? So Vincent WAS right in assuming he ought to be worth more. STILL, that OTHER beast that had been bought by the drug dealer was under PERFECT control, which Vincent never would be. So maybe THAT is the reason for the markdown! But that market, again, seemed to center around Muirfield, so presumably the market died with the institution, BUT maybe someone ELSE wants to bring it back?
In my mind, it should begin and end with Muirfield. And maybe Kern WOULD have gone back to Muirfield roots had the show lasted another season. Reynolds could NOT possibly be the ONLY agent left that worked with Muirfield, so the writers OUGHT to have those old Muirfield people in hiding or still in the government in other posts crawling out of the woodwork ESPECIALLY after HOMELAND got involved in Beast Issues. Because since governmental agencies are REQUIRED to share certain information since 9/11, you would think that even having people listed as "classified" that had fallen on Muirfield's radar before WOULD necessarily bring people out of the woodwork.
But Kern has always chosen to just bring in some new big-bad. Still, this IS the final season. Last season supposedly tied up a few ridiculous threads let loose in S2 that hadn't been realistically explained, so the same could happen this season. Only time will tell. And although I LOVE to be spoiled, I have actually only gone SO FAR in my spoilations so that I could still enjoy the surprise and anticipation as the villains get revealed this season. So we will just have to see.
(And HEY, if the CW really REALLY wants to go with the whole Comic Book Genre stuff, then they should pull a "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" effect --have Muirfield agents be like the Hydra agents--secretly entrenched in sleeper cells for years, poised to take over everything when a certain event happened.)
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 3, 2016 20:21:48 GMT -5
Okay, alwayscrazedbatbfan (& @lena ), I take back what I said. Vincent for the win! LOL. But I'm not sure about what you mean when you say TV Guide had nothing. I saw a number of things, like this article for example. www.tvguide.com/news/beauty-and-the-beast-season-4-big-bad-rich-hunter/The rating numbers for 401 were about the same as some of the middle lower rated S3 episodes, but not as good compared to 301. I think the NBA finals might have had something to do with it, but IIRC the finals were playing last year too when 301 aired. Then again, when the ratings are as low as they've been for S2, S3 and now 401, it's kind of like splitting hairs.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 3, 2016 21:20:41 GMT -5
BeastieBoy:
More people seem to be watching the NBA games this year due to Steph Curry being MVP again. In fact, I joined my family for the Warriors game in progress at their home AFTER the BATB Season premiere (I arrived at halftime)! I admit to never having watched the NBA before this year, but the excitement hype is big around here (Stephen Curry went to Davidson College, 45 minutes from where I live, and also where I graduated from college. So around here, Warriors' games are must-see tv. It's the only time Davidson College ever made the Elite Eight was when he played on the team.)
As to TVGuide, I meant about the actual magazine publication that goes out to subscribers homes like mine. NOTHING was in there about the premiere OR about summer programming, shows, etc. as to BATB. No pics, mention, squat. In previous years, EVEN S3, there was a pic of Vincent (from S2, but I was grateful for ANY nod that BATB gets!) and blurb about BATB. NOTHING for this year. I wasn't counting the online articles that people (like my parents' household) don't have access to due to lack of computer, lack of tech knowledge, etc. (I get my anti-technology genes from somewhere!)
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Post by zelly309 on Jun 3, 2016 21:52:51 GMT -5
Just some random thoughts on the things I liked and didn't like about this episode: - The honeymoon scenes were the highlights for me. Cat seems so happy just to finally have Vincent all to herself, she's got an almost goofy giddiness to her in the opening scene. The bike scene was adorable as expected and I loved seeing VinCat enjoying themselves at the Cafe (until Cat got the call from JT). - I really enjoyed seeing summer outfits instead of those heavy winter coats. That was a great change! And no flannel PJs for Cat in this episode! Thank god she didn't bring those on her honeymoon! - I loved that for the most part VinCat were united and the bickering was left to JTnT. - Jay's French was so funny, loved the ending roof top dinner. But those kinds of roof top endings are also becoming repetitive, as are the wine glasses etc. I hope they do change it up more in future eps. - I'm not sure why so many like to pick on Heather, she's probably my favorite character after VinCat. Heather's ditzy carefree style does get her into to trouble, but that makes things fun and funny for me. - In contrast, I actually find JT's neurotic worry wort traits more irritating. How dare he mess up VinCat's honeymoon!? He was the one that pulled Heather into his paranoid plot in the first place and pushed her out the window. But it's all good. - Kyle seems like a nice pairing for Heather. If I were a gal, he'd probably be more my type vs. Vincent. I'm actually more interested to see what happens to them vs. JTnT. Also interested to see what kind of dynamic it will bring between Vincent and Kyle at the hospital. - The beast hunter was an OK villain for the first episode. I'm glad he wasn't a superhuman or beast. I thought the actor played the role well and I'm intrigued to see where things go from here. It's very S3 like to me in that it seems there's another mysterious big bad in the background who's behind all of this and things will be exposed little by little. But I do hope they change it up, add some twists and give us some real suspense. I wouldn't actually mind seeing Muirfield resurrected to bring things full circle, but not sure if that's something Brad Kern would do. - For me, the whole episode was light and fun for the most part. Which is both good and bad. It made for very enjoyable TV, but I never really got the sense that VinCat were in any real danger. For me, it's because the show has evolved into more of a superhero/comic like genre. It's the same when I watch the Flash or Supergirl, I enjoy those shows very much, but I'm never really worried about the outcome. - Which brings to me what I didn't care for so much. Parts of the show are getting too unrealistic for my tastes. The part where Vincent speeds up on the bike, leaving Cat flat on her butt, was just comical. It was funny to watch, but V shouldn't have done that. Cat could have really gotten hurt. - As I mentioned before, I thought Cat's flip to free herself was also unreal. Her fighting skills were always a bit much for her petite size, but still seemed realistic. However that flip move bordered on becoming a Street Fighter Chun Li kind of wire work type of move. Like most, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. I'm just really happy to have VinCat back on my TV. This VinCat 4.0 is much better than the bickering VinCat 3.0 and IMHO is a return to the VinCat 2.0 from the last 6 episodes of S2. I wouldn't compare VinCat 4.0 to VinCat 1.0, which isn't a bad thing, they've just evolved too far as a couple to ever be VinCat 1.0 again. Hey, some great points you've raised, a lot of which I agree with, particularly the bike thing - there's no way in hell Vincent would risk Catherine that way. It annoys me when the writers can't be creative enough to write a funny incident without basically going against character. And yes, the style of the fighting has definitely become more superhero etc, which really makes me frustrated because we have enough of that on telly! I actually watch the flash, arrow, DC legends and that's plenty. There's more shows in that genre that I don't watch.. Why must our show go in that direction? Naturally it goes without saying that s1 will never be again, it can't because the story must evolve but I do wonder how awesome the seasons would have been had they kept the writers, sherrie and Jennifer etc on during s2/3/4. Sigh. However, I am enjoying what we have so far and will treasure it no matter these issues because unless a miracle happens, that's all we have.
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Post by Vincent Keller on Jun 3, 2016 22:27:19 GMT -5
Andromeda03, Vincent Keller, pippin - Maybe next week one of the mods can open the US/CW episode thread just prior to East Coast airing. That way folks can even start posting their impressions as the episode airs live. The Episode thread is indeed supposed to be opened before the East Coast US airing. I just didn't think and went straight to Twitter. We'll be on it for next week!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 3, 2016 22:52:15 GMT -5
BeastieBoy: More people seem to be watching the NBA games this year due to Steph Curry being MVP again. In fact, I joined my family for the Warriors game in progress at their home AFTER the BATB Season premiere (I arrived at halftime)! I admit to never having watched the NBA before this year, but the excitement hype is big around here (Stephen Curry went to Davidson College, 45 minutes from where I live, and also where I graduated from college. So around here, Warriors' games are must-see tv. It's the only time Davidson College ever made the Elite Eight was when he played on the team.) As to TVGuide, I meant about the actual magazine publication that goes out to subscribers homes like mine. NOTHING was in there about the premiere OR about summer programming, shows, etc. as to BATB. No pics, mention, squat. In previous years, EVEN S3, there was a pic of Vincent (from S2, but I was grateful for ANY nod that BATB gets!) and blurb about BATB. NOTHING for this year. I wasn't counting the online articles that people (like my parents' household) don't have access to due to lack of computer, lack of tech knowledge, etc. (I get my anti-technology genes from somewhere!) Fair point, but I hate to say this - the highly desired demo that the advertisers want are young adults 18-34 years old. That probably isn't the age group that subscribes to the magazine version of TV Guide. The adults that do, like your parents, are more than likely out of the next desired demo group of 18-49. So even if they did know about it, it might help the number of viewers go up a little, but we'd still be stuck with that 0.2 demo.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 4, 2016 0:33:19 GMT -5
I haven't read through the entire thread, but honestly, I wasn't wowed by this episode and really didn't expect to be. That said, MEMB failed to even meet my non-expectation.
First off, I rolled my eyes over Vincat speaking French. Since when? Seriously, did they forget that Catherine had never been outside the country before her side trip to Mexico with Gabe? But. Whatever.
Second, the beast makeup seemed to regress. I guess the final season's budget was very, very small. The shot of Vincent's beast hands was awful. Ditto for the "accident" couple--bad makeup and bad acting.
Third, the primary issues and conversations were a re-hash of S3. I thought Vincat had accepted that their lives would always be chaotic before they made their union permanent. It is really unbelievable that Cat is STILL talking about being a normal married couple when that is literally impossible given who she chose to marry. Why am I still hearing about this? WHY!?! I have a similar complaint about Tess (although, I loved her new hair style). She insisted on (1) knowing everything, (2) said she would stand by Cat when it was clear that Cat loved and would remain true to Vincent, (3) she took up with JT who she knows is Vincent's BFF in all the world and is loyal to his buddy through thick and then, and (4) she knows what Vincent is and the types of danger he faces. And yet with all this, she is still whining to JT about wanting to move forward without the shadow of beast issues.
*Head slamming on table.* I am sick of this. Really and truly. Did the writers and showrunner just give up? I know the story needs conflict. But the conflict doesn't lie in constant whining about the situation or repeating previous conversations ad nauseam. That isn't conflict. That is dull, boring and repetitive. If this is the best writing they have to offer it's no wonder they got cancelled. Speaking of repeats...once again we get the slaughter of Team Beast's only ally and in his office no less! The only person who remains true to himself is JT and it's a good thing, too, since Vincent seems to have forgotten how to use any of his beast skills, like tracking. His excuse? He hasn't used them in a while. We're talking 2 months, not 2 years. *Eyes have rolled onto tabletop.* Whatever. And let's not forget Catherine who has not only learned fluent French in her free time, but has also learned some unbelievable fighting moves a la Charmed. I am beyond baffled that Heather still hasn't found a place to live yet. She's (in her own words) a grown woman and yet she continues to act like a irresponsible college student. Sleeping in Vincat's bed with someone she just met? I'm so done with Heather's BS. Oh, wait. I was done with Heather 3 seasons ago.
There is nowhere to go but up after this. But I don't know if I'm going to continue watching real time. It's just so disappointing and sad that after such a promising start and impressive S2 mid-season rally that BATB has sunk to this level of mediocrity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 2:16:13 GMT -5
BTS shot of 401 Is this the actual shot or just the rehearsing? Because Cat seems to be wearing her flannel shirt again. I thought she burned them down, at least for their honeymoon. LOL.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 4, 2016 3:06:17 GMT -5
@lena - I think they're rehearsing and that she has a robe on, not the flannel shirt.
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Post by bbatb on Jun 4, 2016 4:01:05 GMT -5
I haven't read through the entire thread, but honestly, I wasn't wowed by this episode and really didn't expect to be. That said, MEMB failed to even meet my non-expectation. First off, I rolled my eyes over Vincat speaking French. Since when? Seriously, did they forget that Catherine had never been outside the country before her side trip to Mexico with Gabe? But. Whatever. Second, the beast makeup seemed to regress. I guess the final season's budget was very, very small. The shot of Vincent's beast hands was awful. Ditto for the "accident" couple--bad makeup and bad acting. Third, the primary issues and conversations were a re-hash of S3. I thought Vincat had accepted that their lives would always be chaotic before they made their union permanent. It is really unbelievable that Cat is STILL talking about being a normal married couple when that is literally impossible given who she chose to marry. Why am I still hearing about this? WHY!?! I have a similar complaint about Tess (although, I loved her new hair style). She insisted on (1) knowing everything, (2) said she would stand by Cat when it was clear that Cat loved and would remain true to Vincent, (3) she took up with JT who she knows is Vincent's BFF in all the world and is loyal to his buddy through thick and then, and (4) she knows what Vincent is and the types of danger he faces. And yet with all this, she is still whining to JT about wanting to move forward without the shadow of beast issues. *Head slamming on table.* I am sick of this. Really and truly. Did the writers and showrunner just give up? I know the story needs conflict. But the conflict doesn't lie in constant whining about the situation or repeating previous conversations ad nauseam. That isn't conflict. That is dull, boring and repetitive. If this is the best writing they have to offer it's no wonder they got cancelled. Speaking of repeats...once again we get the slaughter of Team Beast's only ally and in his office no less! The only person who remains true to himself is JT and it's a good thing, too, since Vincent seems to have forgotten how to use any of his beast skills, like tracking. His excuse? He hasn't used them in a while. We're talking 2 months, not 2 years. *Eyes have rolled onto tabletop.* Whatever. And let's not forget Catherine who has not only learned fluent French in her free time, but has also learned some unbelievable fighting moves a la Charmed. I am beyond baffled that Heather still hasn't found a place to live yet. She's (in her own words) a grown woman and yet she continues to act like a irresponsible college student. Sleeping in Vincat's bed with someone she just met? I'm so done with Heather's BS. Oh, wait. I was done with Heather 3 seasons ago. There is nowhere to go but up after this. But I don't know if I'm going to continue watching real time. It's just so disappointing and sad that after such a promising start and impressive S2 mid-season rally that BATB has sunk to this level of mediocrity. I agree with many things you say. Of course, since I did not expect too much to begin with - after the mostly disappointing S3 (disappointing for me that is), so it was actually quite enjoyable. Why do you say that Catherine was NEVER out of the US? Do we know this for sure? Just because Brad Kern mind-altered our Catherine in S2 into being submissive, agreeing-with-everything the slimebag ADA said and suggested to her, does not mean that Mexico was the first time she was out of the country. She only said that she has never been to MEXICO. Catherine is the daughter of affluent parents, so it could very well be that for graduation they gave her a trip to Paris and to prepare for that she just might have learned the language. Just saying.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 4, 2016 4:25:28 GMT -5
I haven't read through the entire thread, but honestly, I wasn't wowed by this episode and really didn't expect to be. That said, MEMB failed to even meet my non-expectation. First off, I rolled my eyes over Vincat speaking French. Since when? Seriously, did they forget that Catherine had never been outside the country before her side trip to Mexico with Gabe? But. Whatever. Second, the beast makeup seemed to regress. I guess the final season's budget was very, very small. The shot of Vincent's beast hands was awful. Ditto for the "accident" couple--bad makeup and bad acting. Third, the primary issues and conversations were a re-hash of S3. I thought Vincat had accepted that their lives would always be chaotic before they made their union permanent. It is really unbelievable that Cat is STILL talking about being a normal married couple when that is literally impossible given who she chose to marry. Why am I still hearing about this? WHY!?! I have a similar complaint about Tess (although, I loved her new hair style). She insisted on (1) knowing everything, (2) said she would stand by Cat when it was clear that Cat loved and would remain true to Vincent, (3) she took up with JT who she knows is Vincent's BFF in all the world and is loyal to his buddy through thick and then, and (4) she knows what Vincent is and the types of danger he faces. And yet with all this, she is still whining to JT about wanting to move forward without the shadow of beast issues. *Head slamming on table.* I am sick of this. Really and truly. Did the writers and showrunner just give up? I know the story needs conflict. But the conflict doesn't lie in constant whining about the situation or repeating previous conversations ad nauseam. That isn't conflict. That is dull, boring and repetitive. If this is the best writing they have to offer it's no wonder they got cancelled. Speaking of repeats...once again we get the slaughter of Team Beast's only ally and in his office no less! The only person who remains true to himself is JT and it's a good thing, too, since Vincent seems to have forgotten how to use any of his beast skills, like tracking. His excuse? He hasn't used them in a while. We're talking 2 months, not 2 years. *Eyes have rolled onto tabletop.* Whatever. And let's not forget Catherine who has not only learned fluent French in her free time, but has also learned some unbelievable fighting moves a la Charmed. I am beyond baffled that Heather still hasn't found a place to live yet. She's (in her own words) a grown woman and yet she continues to act like a irresponsible college student. Sleeping in Vincat's bed with someone she just met? I'm so done with Heather's BS. Oh, wait. I was done with Heather 3 seasons ago. There is nowhere to go but up after this. But I don't know if I'm going to continue watching real time. It's just so disappointing and sad that after such a promising start and impressive S2 mid-season rally that BATB has sunk to this level of mediocrity. I agree with many things you say. Of course, since I did not expect too much to begin with - after the mostly disappointing S3 (disappointing for me that is), so it was actually quite enjoyable. Why do you say that Catherine was NEVER out of the US? Do we know this for sure? Just because Brad Kern mind-altered our Catherine in S2 into being submissive, agreeing-with-everything the slimebag ADA said and suggested to her, does not mean that Mexico was the first time she was out of the country. She only said that she has never been to MEXICO. Catherine is the daughter of affluent parents, so it could very well be that for graduation they gave her a trip to Paris and to prepare for that she just might have learned the language. Just saying. You're right. I don't know if her affluent parents sent her on a European tour and maybe she studied French all through school, but I shouldn't have to fill in the blanks. There should have been some signs of these skills and experiences prior to the French honeymoon, which BTW, was extremely clichéd and not representative of our formerly uniquely romantic couple. Vincat has pretty much been ruined for me. They didn't feel real to me. Maybe it's just been too long between seasons as well as the move from romance to beast adventure crime stories. Or maybe I just fell in love with other TV couples...Reign's Francis & Mary, Outlander's Claire & Jamie...whatever the reason I didn't feel the passion for or between Vincent & Catherine.
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