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Post by ArwenFan on Oct 17, 2013 13:50:33 GMT -5
It seems that V has been reprogrammed to vehemently avoid answering any questions regarding his missions. We saw that during episode 1 with the JT and Vincent scene and today during the VinCat rooftop scene. Exactly. So, Catherine's usual "dog-with-a-bone" way of pursuing information is not a good plan. She's intelligent enough (I hope) to realize this and try something different. Something that is sort of annoying me in fan comments is this insistence that Vincent should grovel and beg and hang himself upside down on a cross by his toenails before Catherine gives him the time of day. Are people simply incapable of critical thinking and evaluating situations? Or do they think loving behavior equals keeping a scorecard "tit for tat"? I'm thinking people need a refresher course on the characteristics of love (I Corinthians anyone?) These remarks are as grating as labeling Catherine as needy, stalkerish and the like. Is she needy because she is in love with a man who has been ripped from her physically and emotionally? Is she being a stalker because she's trying to find him and keep him from further harm? The most misused words in this fandom are "stalker" and "cheesy." They've lost all meaning, but I digress. How--on the one hand--can you praise V/C for having an epic love then want to exact punishment, assign blame and jump ship when there are bumps in the road? Are you a diehard fan or a fair weather fan? I expect Catherine to be cautious, pull-back a bit and re-evaluate the entire situation carefully before making another move, but if she truly loves Vincent (and is committed to him), she won't give up on him. He would not give up on her, and serious fans have got to know that. The hysteria and hissy fits we've been treated to this week ("I'm going to boycott the show now because Vincat didn't live up to my expectations!") are both ridiculous and mildly amusing. I'm not calling any particular fan out, I'm just speaking on what I've noticed to be a trend, please don't crucify me. These are the traits of an epic love. Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs. Love finds no joy in unrighteousness but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. This is what I hope this season shows that Vincent and Catherine have...an epic love. And now I'm done.
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Post by kiki09 on Oct 17, 2013 14:02:53 GMT -5
It seems that V has been reprogrammed to vehemently avoid answering any questions regarding his missions. We saw that during episode 1 with the JT and Vincent scene and today during the VinCat rooftop scene. Exactly. So, Catherine's usual "dog-with-a-bone" way of pursuing information is not a good plan. She's intelligent enough (I hope) to realize this and try something different. Something that is sort of annoying me in fan comments is this insistence that Vincent should grovel and beg and hang himself upside down on a cross by his toenails before Catherine gives him the time of day. Are people simply incapable of critical thinking and evaluating situations? Or do they think loving behavior equals keeping a scorecard "tit for tat"? I'm thinking people need a refresher course on the characteristics of love (I Corinthians anyone?) These remarks are as grating as labeling Catherine as needy, stalkerish and the like. Is she needy because she is in love with a man who has been ripped from her physically and emotionally? Is being a stalker because she's trying to find him and keep him from further harm? The most misused words in this fandom are "stalker" and "cheesy." They've lost all meaning, but I digress. How--on the one hand--can you praise V/C for having an epic love then want to exact punishment, assign blame and jump ship when there are bumps in the road? Are you a diehard fan or a fair weather fan? I expect Catherine to be cautious, pull-back a bit and re-evaluate the entire situation carefully before making another move, but if she truly loves Vincent (and is committed to him), she won't give up on him. He would not give up on her, and serious fans have got to know that. The hysteria and hissy fits we've been treated to this week ("I'm going to boycott the show now because Vincat didn't live up to my expectations!") are both ridiculous and mildly amusing. I'm not calling any particular fan out, I'm just speaking on what I've noticed to be a trend, do please don't crucify me. These are the traits of an epic love. Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs. Love finds no joy in unrighteousness but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. This is what I hope this season shows that Vincent and Catherine have...an epic love. And now I'm done. Thank you for this ArwenFan. I always respect your rational thinking and responses re BATB. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Oct 17, 2013 14:05:50 GMT -5
As I wait for the clips for next weeks episode Liar, Liar and well since it seems I have LOTS and LOTS of time on my hands..And to be honest I see how many including myself were mortified by the last scene in this episode I just couldn't help but as much as I don't justify violence towards woman of any kind, I at least want to make sense of it and try to 'accept' the situation..Believe me accepting isn't the same as justifying. I looked it up in the dictionary Accept : To understand as having a specific meaning. To endure resignedly or patiently
Justify: To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid ... To declare free of blame; absolve....To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin.With that said the best way to 'accept' this situation at least for me is to go back and do some research. How do I do that? Well by examining the Vincent we knew AKA 1.0 and examining Vincent 2.0 the new charged and mind washed version. I've done so by my Season 1 DVD's and by watching the 2 first episodes of this season. By this I've come to my own conclusions and take as to what could have possibly aside from the obvious triggered Vincent to do such a thing. Yes a push or a shove isn't the same as actually hitting her but the outcome is still the same, HURT,FEAR and LACK OF TRUST is now on the table and it was there in season 1 but we were always lead to believe that Vincent would NEVER truly HURT her in that way. So here's what I come up with, In season 1 many of times the 'issue' of Vincent's control had come to surface Pilot, Proceed With Caution, Basic Instinct,Saturn Returns,Out Of Control, Trapped, Bridesmaid Up,Seeing Red, Cold Turkey,Tough Love,Any Means Possible I chose the episodes above cause those are the ones which Vincent and Catherine struggle the most with WHAT HE IS. The trust issues about "he would never hurt me" are the key to these episodes too. "You know that..that first night we met in the woods? I knew that you would never hurt me.That was my gut! I'm sticking with that." Catherine (Basic Instinct)
then we have "Even when you are not yourself..You do the right thing." Catherine (Out Of Control)
"There were these guys and they told him to kill her and..and he was going to do it he was going to pull the trigger..I didn't know what to do..its..you know I didn't mean to." Vincent (Tough Love)
BUT the key to all of this for me is with Any Means Possible:
"Vincent I'm trying to help! You keep pulling back cause of what? Some headlines?" "No I keep pulling back cause I don't want to hurt you."
"Vincent, You have ALWAYS been able to control yourself with me" "And I've been putting up a good front..TRUTH is I've never felt so out of control then when I do when I'm with you."Now those are just a few example and very good ones at that...For indirectly the answers to Vincent's 1.0 as to WHY Vincent wouldn't hurt HER: He LOVED this woman, plan and simple and even though he didn't know her at first..The connection of HIM saving her the 10 years prior was catalyst to ALL that happened in Season 1. HE was her protector, friend, lover, soul mate <-- All of it! His 'feelings' for her was his 'control' method and that's why he was able to keep his BEAST in check with her. Now you have Vincent 2.0 ..One that doesn't have that history of him saving her, protecting,falling in love with her and put together the fact that she comes into his life and tells him that 'They had a life together and continues to push him into remembering something which he obviously can't. He has been turned into a super soldier which to me is mostly BEAST ..He was programmed to do his makers bidding without having ANYONE interfere. This comes along this woman and begins to BELIEVE the things she's telling him...It's like a computer and a virus...His program is being jeopardized for what is the virus that is Catherine Chandler. Bringing back the Vincent we know for maybe a few times here and there what he is now meant to do.So this freaks HIM out cause he NOT suppose to do those things. In comes the last scene of this episode. All the factors above and the fact that the Catherine also tried to hard and the fact that he is still being programmed and controlled gives me enough to forgive him for what he did and learn to accept it even though I know it's not right what he did. Below is the slow motion of the END scene..Look at it and see Vincent's reaction to what he had done. At watching this the other night when I was making the clips from the episode I came to the conclusion that he didn't know or understand what he was doing. Both of them got hurt in that scene. Both must come to terms with it and move forward..AS must we Zena you said it correctly... Well no Disney did LOL If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? <Catherine Chandler did it once and will again!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 14:08:43 GMT -5
So many people are saying that V shoved Cat. No, the beast did. He immediately turned back into V and was shocked and appalled at what he did. Zena said it before, he is beast 2.0...people have brainwashed and changed him. Had V not been shocked and appalled, then I would be appalled, but he was. I'm not saying that makes what beast did ok, but maybe a tad more understandable. EXACTLY, watch it again folks, when he turns around from her, you can see that he is starting to lose control, she then grabs him, the BEAST is who pushes her away, and her fear, is what brings the HUMAN Vincent back. Catherine needed to be shaken from the belief that pestering/seducing him about who he used to be would work, frankly it was getting annoying... Just from the glimpses of next weeks episode you can see that the strong independent Catherine is back. Those who are using the terms physical abuse and emotional abuse around need to remember those refer to a patter of behavior. So far we have seen nothing like that. I do think some people are reacting to the loss of the old Vincent and literally mouring him. I know after the first episode my heart was so broken for both Catherine and JT that I was not sure I could keep watching. It took a couple of days to process the episode, but that just means it's good drama. That is how your supposed to feel!
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 17, 2013 14:10:30 GMT -5
As I wait for the clips for next weeks episode Liar, Liar and well since it seems I have LOTS and LOTS of time on my hands..And to be honest I see how many including myself were mortified by the last scene in this episode I just couldn't help but as much as I don't justify violence towards woman of any kind, I at least want to make sense of it and try to 'accept' the situation..Believe me accepting isn't the same as justifying. I looked it up in the dictionary Accept : To understand as having a specific meaning. To endure resignedly or patiently
Justify: To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid ... To declare free of blame; absolve....To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin.With that said the best way to 'accept' this situation at least for me is to go back and do some research. How do I do that? Well by examining the Vincent we knew AKA 1.0 and examining Vincent 2.0 the new charged and mind washed version. I've done so by my Season 1 DVD's and by watching the 2 first episodes of this season. By this I've come to my own conclusions and take as to what could have possibly aside from the obvious triggered Vincent to do such a thing. Yes a push or a shove isn't the same as actually hitting her but the outcome is still the same, HURT,FEAR and LACK OF TRUST is now on the table and it was there in season 1 but we were always lead to believe that Vincent would NEVER truly HURT her in that way. So here's what I come up with, In season 1 many of times the 'issue' of Vincent's control had come to surface Pilot, Proceed With Caution, Basic Instinct,Saturn Returns,Out Of Control, Trapped, Bridesmaid Up,Seeing Red, Cold Turkey,Tough Love,Any Means Possible I chose the episodes above cause those are the ones which Vincent and Catherine struggle the most with WHAT HE IS. The trust issues about "he would never hurt me" are the key to these episodes too. "You know that..that first night we met in the woods? I knew that you would never hurt me.That was my gut! I'm sticking with that." Catherine (Basic Instinct)
then we have "Even when you are not yourself..You do the right thing." Catherine (Out Of Control)
"There were these guys and they told him to kill her and..and he was going to do it he was going to pull the trigger..I didn't know what to do..its..you know I didn't mean to." Vincent (Tough Love)
BUT the key to all of this for me is with Any Means Possible:
"Vincent I'm trying to help! You keep pulling back cause of what? Some headlines?" "No I keep pulling back cause I don't want to hurt you."
"Vincent, You have ALWAYS been able to control yourself with me" "And I've been putting up a good front..TRUTH is I've never felt so out of control then when I do when I'm with you."Now those are just a few example and very good ones at that...For indirectly the answers to Vincent's 1.0 as to WHY Vincent wouldn't hurt HER: He LOVED this woman, plan and simple and even though he didn't know her at first..The connection of HIM saving her the 10 years prior was catalyst to ALL that happened in Season 1. HE was her protector, friend, lover, soul mate <-- All of it! His 'feelings' for her was his 'control' method and that's why he was able to keep his BEAST in check with her. Now you have Vincent 2.0 ..One that doesn't have that history of him saving her, protecting,falling in love with her and put together the fact that she comes into his life and tells him that 'They had a life together and continues to push him into remembering something which he obviously can't. He has been turned into a super soldier which to me is mostly BEAST ..He was programmed to do his makers bidding without having ANYONE interfere. This comes along this woman and begins to BELIEVE the things she's telling him...It's like a computer and a virus...His program is being jeopardized for what is the virus that is Catherine Chandler. Bringing back the Vincent we know for maybe a few times here and there what he is now meant to do.So this freaks HIM out cause he NOT suppose to do those things. In comes the last scene of this episode. All the factors above and the fact that the Catherine also tried to hard and the fact that he is still being programmed and controlled gives me enough to forgive him for what he did and learn to accept it even though I know it's not right what he did. Below is the slow motion of the END scene..Look at it and see Vincent's reaction to what he had done. At watching this the other night when I was making the clips from the episode I came to the conclusion that he didn't know or understand what he was doing. Both of them got hurt in that scene. Both must come to terms with it and move forward..AS must we Zena you said it correctly... Well no Disney did LOL If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? <Catherine Chandler did it once and will again! Yolie, THERE ALREADY ARE VIDEOS FOR LIAR,LIAR!!! JUST CHECK THE OTHER THREAD!!! EDIT: btw, amazing analysis! completely agree! thanks for your work, as always!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 15:18:46 GMT -5
As I wait for the clips for next weeks episode Liar, Liar and well since it seems I have LOTS and LOTS of time on my hands..And to be honest I see how many including myself were mortified by the last scene in this episode I just couldn't help but as much as I don't justify violence towards woman of any kind, I at least want to make sense of it and try to 'accept' the situation..Believe me accepting isn't the same as justifying. I looked it up in the dictionary Accept : To understand as having a specific meaning. To endure resignedly or patiently
Justify: To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid ... To declare free of blame; absolve....To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin.With that said the best way to 'accept' this situation at least for me is to go back and do some research. How do I do that? Well by examining the Vincent we knew AKA 1.0 and examining Vincent 2.0 the new charged and mind washed version. I've done so by my Season 1 DVD's and by watching the 2 first episodes of this season. By this I've come to my own conclusions and take as to what could have possibly aside from the obvious triggered Vincent to do such a thing. Yes a push or a shove isn't the same as actually hitting her but the outcome is still the same, HURT,FEAR and LACK OF TRUST is now on the table and it was there in season 1 but we were always lead to believe that Vincent would NEVER truly HURT her in that way. So here's what I come up with, In season 1 many of times the 'issue' of Vincent's control had come to surface Pilot, Proceed With Caution, Basic Instinct,Saturn Returns,Out Of Control, Trapped, Bridesmaid Up,Seeing Red, Cold Turkey,Tough Love,Any Means Possible I chose the episodes above cause those are the ones which Vincent and Catherine struggle the most with WHAT HE IS. The trust issues about "he would never hurt me" are the key to these episodes too. "You know that..that first night we met in the woods? I knew that you would never hurt me.That was my gut! I'm sticking with that." Catherine (Basic Instinct)
then we have "Even when you are not yourself..You do the right thing." Catherine (Out Of Control)
"There were these guys and they told him to kill her and..and he was going to do it he was going to pull the trigger..I didn't know what to do..its..you know I didn't mean to." Vincent (Tough Love)
BUT the key to all of this for me is with Any Means Possible:
"Vincent I'm trying to help! You keep pulling back cause of what? Some headlines?" "No I keep pulling back cause I don't want to hurt you."
"Vincent, You have ALWAYS been able to control yourself with me" "And I've been putting up a good front..TRUTH is I've never felt so out of control then when I do when I'm with you."Now those are just a few example and very good ones at that...For indirectly the answers to Vincent's 1.0 as to WHY Vincent wouldn't hurt HER: He LOVED this woman, plan and simple and even though he didn't know her at first..The connection of HIM saving her the 10 years prior was catalyst to ALL that happened in Season 1. HE was her protector, friend, lover, soul mate <-- All of it! His 'feelings' for her was his 'control' method and that's why he was able to keep his BEAST in check with her. Now you have Vincent 2.0 ..One that doesn't have that history of him saving her, protecting,falling in love with her and put together the fact that she comes into his life and tells him that 'They had a life together and continues to push him into remembering something which he obviously can't. He has been turned into a super soldier which to me is mostly BEAST ..He was programmed to do his makers bidding without having ANYONE interfere. This comes along this woman and begins to BELIEVE the things she's telling him...It's like a computer and a virus...His program is being jeopardized for what is the virus that is Catherine Chandler. Bringing back the Vincent we know for maybe a few times here and there what he is now meant to do.So this freaks HIM out cause he NOT suppose to do those things. In comes the last scene of this episode. All the factors above and the fact that the Catherine also tried to hard and the fact that he is still being programmed and controlled gives me enough to forgive him for what he did and learn to accept it even though I know it's not right what he did. Below is the slow motion of the END scene..Look at it and see Vincent's reaction to what he had done. At watching this the other night when I was making the clips from the episode I came to the conclusion that he didn't know or understand what he was doing. Both of them got hurt in that scene. Both must come to terms with it and move forward..AS must we Zena you said it correctly... Well no Disney did LOL If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? <Catherine Chandler did it once and will again! agreed and well put!
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Post by feezya on Oct 17, 2013 15:32:40 GMT -5
It seems that V has been reprogrammed to vehemently avoid answering any questions regarding his missions. We saw that during episode 1 with the JT and Vincent scene and today during the VinCat rooftop scene. Exactly. So, Catherine's usual "dog-with-a-bone" way of pursuing information is not a good plan. She's intelligent enough (I hope) to realize this and try something different. Something that is sort of annoying me in fan comments is this insistence that Vincent should grovel and beg and hang himself upside down on a cross by his toenails before Catherine gives him the time of day. Are people simply incapable of critical thinking and evaluating situations? Or do they think loving behavior equals keeping a scorecard "tit for tat"? I'm thinking people need a refresher course on the characteristics of love (I Corinthians anyone?) These remarks are as grating as labeling Catherine as needy, stalkerish and the like. Is she needy because she is in love with a man who has been ripped from her physically and emotionally? Is being a stalker because she's trying to find him and keep him from further harm? The most misused words in this fandom are "stalker" and "cheesy." They've lost all meaning, but I digress. How--on the one hand--can you praise V/C for having an epic love then want to exact punishment, assign blame and jump ship when there are bumps in the road? Are you a diehard fan or a fair weather fan? I expect Catherine to be cautious, pull-back a bit and re-evaluate the entire situation carefully before making another move, but if she truly loves Vincent (and is committed to him), she won't give up on him. He would not give up on her, and serious fans have got to know that. The hysteria and hissy fits we've been treated to this week ("I'm going to boycott the show now because Vincat didn't live up to my expectations!") are both ridiculous and mildly amusing. I'm not calling any particular fan out, I'm just speaking on what I've noticed to be a trend, do please don't crucify me. These are the traits of an epic love. Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs. Love finds no joy in unrighteousness but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.
This is what I hope this season shows that Vincent and Catherine have...an epic love. And now I'm done. Love your "traits of an epic love". Now give a face to it, no two faces - Vincent n Catherine = Perfect!
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Post by feezya on Oct 17, 2013 15:41:00 GMT -5
If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? <Catherine Chandler did it once and will again! Yollie, you could really be a CSI or CSU, as Cat once said? But i love the last part the most.... *siiighh* yup, i grew up watching fairy tales and they screw up my perspective on real life
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Post by panda98 on Oct 17, 2013 16:14:36 GMT -5
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 17, 2013 16:20:55 GMT -5
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Oct 17, 2013 16:21:22 GMT -5
If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? <Catherine Chandler did it once and will again! Yollie, you could really be a CSI or CSU, as Cat once said? But i love the last part the most.... *siiighh* yup, i grew up watching fairy tales and they screw up my perspective on real life The DISNEY movie is my ALL time Favorite DISNEY MOVIE EVER! LOL Having four kids and 9 grand kids sort of puts you in the Disney watching mood Little Mermaid second
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 16:23:32 GMT -5
hahaha you should send this to vincent lol
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Post by feezya on Oct 17, 2013 16:58:02 GMT -5
hahaha you should send this to vincent lol i second that
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Post by feezya on Oct 17, 2013 17:01:04 GMT -5
Yollie, you could really be a CSI or CSU, as Cat once said? But i love the last part the most.... *siiighh* yup, i grew up watching fairy tales and they screw up my perspective on real life The DISNEY movie is my ALL time Favorite DISNEY MOVIE EVER! LOL Having four kids and 9 grand kids sort of puts you in the Disney watching mood Little Mermaid second 4 kids and 9 grand kids?? No wonder you are always the rational and wise one (until when it come to the :banana:issue)
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Oct 17, 2013 18:04:01 GMT -5
The DISNEY movie is my ALL time Favorite DISNEY MOVIE EVER! LOL Having four kids and 9 grand kids sort of puts you in the Disney watching mood Little Mermaid second 4 kids and 9 grand kids?? No wonder you are always the rational and wise one (until when it come to the :banana:issue) Sorry Hun I FORGET RATIONALITY when it comes to I just didn't! LOL BUT YOU STARTED IT!!
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