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Post by ·· K å t ·· on Jun 14, 2015 4:51:06 GMT -5
I've seen other comments about this elsewhere too. IMHO, although Vincent has killed in the past, it had mostly been in order to save someone else or in self defense. The exception being the start of S2 where he was brainwashed/programmed to hunt and destroy beasts. In S2, this led to Cat giving the same ultimatum in "Man or Beast" and Vincent chose to try and kill. I might be wrong, but ever since that S2 episode, I don't think Vincent has actually killed someone, he seemed more intent on saving the innocent. The scene in this episode was almost an exact replay of the "Man or Beast" situation. So much so, that Cat seemed to be uttering almost the exact words from "Man or Beast" and her expression was also a near carbon copy (talk about deja vu). But this time Vincent chose not to kill. Showing that their love or Cat's power over him can now control his beast. The other thing I found very interesting about the battle scene is that his beast is continuing to evolve. The beast here was an enraged beast with crazy blood red eyes, we've not seen that before. While Cat can tame the beast for now, it's not a given that it stays that way. I agree with you in this reasoning! I noticed too the repeat of the script and storyline and even the KK's acting like the one we already saw on Man or Beast.... I immediately thought it was a very poor storyline and script as if they didn't have anything better to say and to show us... BUT on second thought I firmly think that they wanted to show us that now the love they have, the close bonding they share now can be the key through which Vinc can be Beast without lose his humanity. Plus I also noticed that they have reused again the motto: "together we can overcome anything" and again I'm convinced that they put it on Cat's mouth not just because the lame script BUT instead to point out something we still have to see and discover... and IMO the core of this S3 will be the love they have that now can avoid to Vinc to lose his humanity while in Beast way fight bad guys and moreover to show how they are part of something bigger that can come from their past or who knows...
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Post by cacosa on Jun 14, 2015 5:08:19 GMT -5
A few random thoughts on two of Ksitetv's "jumble of thoughts": I saw a tweet from Stu about them checking into why the broadcast version is darker than their actual filmed version.
But I'm wondering for those who actually watched it on your TV on the CW, not off the internet, did you feel it was too dark?
Maybe its my TVs, but the lighting was just fine. I have it on DVR and checked the lighting on two of my best TVs and I have no issue with the lighting. When I see gifs of the opening roof top scene and the proposal scene on the internet, they do seem very dark. But when I look at my DVR-ed CW recording, they are much brighter compared to what I see posted.I've seen other comments about this elsewhere too. IMHO, although Vincent has killed in the past, it had mostly been in order to save someone else or in self defense. The exception being the start of S2 where he was brainwashed/programmed to hunt and destroy beasts. In S2, this led to Cat giving the same ultimatum in "Man or Beast" and Vincent chose to try and kill. I might be wrong, but ever since that S2 episode, I don't think Vincent has actually killed someone, he seemed more intent on saving the innocent. The scene in this episode was almost an exact replay of the "Man or Beast" situation. So much so, that Cat seemed to be uttering almost the exact words from "Man or Beast" and her expression was also a near carbon copy (talk about deja vu). But this time Vincent chose not to kill. Showing that their love or Cat's power over him can now control his beast. The other thing I found very interesting about the battle scene is that his beast is continuing to evolve. The beast here was an enraged beast with crazy blood red eyes, we've not seen that before. While Cat can tame the beast for now, it's not a given that it stays that way. At first, when I saw the episode, in my tablet, hours after the Canada premiere, I thought ... again too dark scenes, especially those that take place on the roof between Catherine and Vincent . But finally, I was able to download the iTunes HD version, and I must say that although it's night, and all that, in that version and in my TV, the scenes are much better lighted, indeed, I say they are amazing.
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Post by NotOnTv on Jun 14, 2015 6:05:03 GMT -5
The lighting was a big problem in season 2 as well, wasn't it? I remember when I started streaming season 2 on Netlfix, I noticed right away how the lighting quality was so much better than on TV. Stuart and co. were apparently looking into it during season 2 already, doesn't look like much has changed.
As for being spoiled, I don't know hoy you do it, guys. I couldn't come in here and lurk and then expect to enjoy the episode. I have learned my lesson with some other TV shows in the past where I would even go so far as to watch the gifs and such before actually seeing the episode and it ruined everything for me. I really believe you would have enjoyed the episode so much more if you had stay away from the early viewers thread.
After reviewing the episode for the unhealthy number of times, these are my absolute, perhaps subtle, highlights:
1, The rooftop scene. I truly did not expect it to be so HOT. These two are hotter with their clothes on than most people on TV are naked.
2, The moment on the houseboat when Vincent says he doesn't really know what he wants. Cat's whole body language in that second - some great acting there from KK. You could see how she literally froze. As if her whole world was about to crumble.
3, The proposal scene. I LOVED the first moment when their eyes met. It was so powerful. Vincent all nervous and Cat's surprised look - she really did not expect him to show up. The way KK delivered the "Never" - again, probably more powerful than any I love your or a kiss would have been.
This surely must be one of the most memorable BATB episodes.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 14, 2015 7:56:23 GMT -5
The lighting was a big problem in season 2 as well, wasn't it? I remember when I started streaming season 2 on Netlfix, I noticed right away how the lighting quality was so much better than on TV. Stuart and co. were apparently looking into it during season 2 already, doesn't look like much has changed. As for being spoiled, I don't know hoy you do it, guys. I couldn't come in here and lurk and then expect to enjoy the episode. I have learned my lesson with some other TV shows in the past where I would even go so far as to watch the gifs and such before actually seeing the episode and it ruined everything for me. I really believe you would have enjoyed the episode so much more if you had stay away from the early viewers thread. After reviewing the episode for the unhealthy number of times, these are my absolute, perhaps subtle, highlights: 1, The rooftop scene. I truly did not expect it to be so HOT. These two are hotter with their clothes on than most people on TV are naked. 2, The moment on the houseboat when Vincent says he doesn't really know what he wants. Cat's whole body language in that second - some great acting there from KK. You could see how she literally froze. As if her whole world was about to crumble. 3, The proposal scene. I LOVED the first moment when their eyes met. It was so powerful. Vincent all nervous and Cat's surprised look - she really did not expect him to show up. The way KK delivered the "Never" - again, probably more powerful than any I love your or a kiss would have been. This surely must be one of the most memorable BATB episodes. The parts that I've made bold...yes, yes, yes!! I'm so glad you mentioned Cat's reaction to Vincent's remark at the boathouse. That was spot on and I loved how Vincent picked up on her body language immediately and clarified that he will always want her. I am a big fan of less is more when it comes to Vincent and Catherine. They can convey so much with a simple look or wod that adding more would certainly be a case of gilding the lily.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 14, 2015 8:04:12 GMT -5
FAQ ANNA* No. Way back in the very first episode it was established that all of Vincent's immediate family were deceased. Immediate includes mother. Regarding Aaron...who knows? Who cares? It's bad enough we still have Heather. *Arwenfan's No Nonsense Answers
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 14, 2015 8:38:55 GMT -5
The lighting was a big problem in season 2 as well, wasn't it? I remember when I started streaming season 2 on Netlfix, I noticed right away how the lighting quality was so much better than on TV. Stuart and co. were apparently looking into it during season 2 already, doesn't look like much has changed. As for being spoiled, I don't know hoy you do it, guys. I couldn't come in here and lurk and then expect to enjoy the episode. I have learned my lesson with some other TV shows in the past where I would even go so far as to watch the gifs and such before actually seeing the episode and it ruined everything for me. I really believe you would have enjoyed the episode so much more if you had stay away from the early viewers thread. After reviewing the episode for the unhealthy number of times, these are my absolute, perhaps subtle, highlights: 1, The rooftop scene. I truly did not expect it to be so HOT. Th ese two are hotter with their clothes on than most people on TV are naked. 2, The moment on the houseboat when Vincent says he doesn't really know what he wants. Cat's whole body language in that second - some great acting there from KK. You could see how she literally froze. As if her whole world was about to crumble. 3, The proposal scene. I LOVED the first moment when their eyes met. It was so powerful. Vincent all nervous and Cat's surprised look - she really did not expect him to show up. The way KK delivered the "Never" - again, probably more powerful than any I love your or a kiss would have been. This surely must be one of the most memorable BATB episodes. regarding your bold so true regarding the rest, agree - but maybe cause i was starved
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 14, 2015 8:40:15 GMT -5
FAQ ANNA* No. Way back in the very first episode it was established that all of Vincent's immediate family were deceased. Immediate includes mother. Regarding Aaron...who knows? Who cares? It's bad enough we still have Heather. *Arwenfan's No Nonsense Answers when i saw Anna i thought you were responding to me, but couldnt link it with sth. then i realised what anna stands for lol
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Post by corinne on Jun 14, 2015 11:04:24 GMT -5
I agree there was great acting both from Jay and Kristin, at the boathouse and all through the episode. I loved the boathouse scene too and I loved when she told him "never" at the end. It was so important for him. Love it when they rae honest to each other and tell each other what they think and feel. That's our Vincat! I was rewatching the episode last night, and have you noticed that when she had said yes and they were kissing, on one plan both were holding the other's face, and on the next plan, only he was....I liked to notice these details, meaning they had to cut/do the scene several times
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Post by cacosa on Jun 14, 2015 12:25:36 GMT -5
I agree there was great acting both from Jay and Kristin, at the boathouse and all through the episode. I loved the boathouse scene too and I loved when she told him "never" at the end. It was so important for him. Love it when they rae honest to each other and tell each other what they think and feel. That's our Vincat! I was rewatching the episode last night, and have you noticed that when she had said yes and they were kissing, on one plan both were holding the other's face, and on the next plan, only he was....I liked to notice these details, meaning they had to cut/do the scene several times It not necessarily means that they have cut the scene. As I have understood, many scenes, if not all, are filmed from two different perspectives to change the view. That said, I don't say they have filmed from beginning to end that scene, without making mistakes or having to repeat. But I suppose that there is a person responsible for keep an eye on those details, continuity assistant, or something, I think. Whom I would fire ... Just kidding. But it is very noticeable, because it happened one time or another last season too
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 14, 2015 13:17:37 GMT -5
The lighting was a big problem in season 2 as well, wasn't it? I remember when I started streaming season 2 on Netlfix, I noticed right away how the lighting quality was so much better than on TV. Stuart and co. were apparently looking into it during season 2 already, doesn't look like much has changed. As for being spoiled, I don't know hoy you do it, guys. I couldn't come in here and lurk and then expect to enjoy the episode. I have learned my lesson with some other TV shows in the past where I would even go so far as to watch the gifs and such before actually seeing the episode and it ruined everything for me. I really believe you would have enjoyed the episode so much more if you had stay away from the early viewers thread. After reviewing the episode for the unhealthy number of times, these are my absolute, perhaps subtle, highlights: 1, The rooftop scene. I truly did not expect it to be so HOT. These two are hotter with their clothes on than most people on TV are naked. 2, The moment on the houseboat when Vincent says he doesn't really know what he wants. Cat's whole body language in that second - some great acting there from KK. You could see how she literally froze. As if her whole world was about to crumble. 3, The proposal scene. I LOVED the first moment when their eyes met. It was so powerful. Vincent all nervous and Cat's surprised look - she really did not expect him to show up. The way KK delivered the "Never" - again, probably more powerful than any I love your or a kiss would have been. This surely must be one of the most memorable BATB episodes. The parts that I've made bold...yes, yes, yes!! I'm so glad you mentioned Cat's reaction to Vincent's remark at the boathouse. That was spot on and I loved how Vincent picked up on her body language immediately and clarified that he will always want her. I am a big fan of less is more when it comes to Vincent and Catherine. They can convey so much with a simple look or wod that adding more would certainly be a case of gilding the lily. Totally agree with the 3 points made by NotOnTv. Points 2 and 3 I hadn't really thought about, but it's so true! This episode is just full of wonderful little moments like that. My favorite line was during the opening roof top scene: Vincent: "So how long you got?" Catherine: "That depends, how long can you last?..." The way KK delivered that line while having her neck nibbled on was oh so seductive! And then Jay gives her that look!
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Post by ArwenFan on Jun 14, 2015 14:10:48 GMT -5
The parts that I've made bold...yes, yes, yes!! I'm so glad you mentioned Cat's reaction to Vincent's remark at the boathouse. That was spot on and I loved how Vincent picked up on her body language immediately and clarified that he will always want her. I am a big fan of less is more when it comes to Vincent and Catherine. They can convey so much with a simple look or wod that adding more would certainly be a case of gilding the lily. Totally agree with the 3 points made by NotOnTv. Points 2 and 3 I hadn't really thought about, but it's so true! This episode is just full of wonderful little moments like that. My favorite line was during the opening roof top scene: Vincent: "So how long you got?" Catherine: "That depends, how long can you last?..." The way KK delivered that line while having her neck nibbled on was oh so seductive! And then Jay gives her that look!Ah, Beastieboy, are you really going to make me watch this again? Okay!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 14, 2015 17:23:02 GMT -5
Final Thoughts on this one:
1) LOVED: How Catherine is just waiting for Vincent on the roof at "their" time at the end of the episode, EVEN IF she doesn't expect him to show up. And her deep sadness at thinking he needed the space and wouldn't show. AND she is TRYING to meet Vincent's needs--she asks him if he needs space and if he wants her there at the boathouse.
--There is DEFINITE insecurity there--that she may have damaged the relationship irreparably, that he might not want her if some kind of strings/uncertainty attached, concern that the beast issues can't ever be truly behind them. Catherine really worries that SHE IS NOT ENOUGH for Vincent.
2) "We do this TOGETHER or not at all." --Whatever action is taken, it will be together. And neither of them really want to be in this position at all BUT recognize that the only choice would be to ignore someone else's suffering, which they will NOT do.
3) Vincent's Beast issues: As in "Operation: Fake Date," Vincent ADMITS that he literally was on the HUNT to actually KILL the guy. Vincent and Catherine both know when Vincent is on a "mission" and that as an Alpha Predator, he WON'T stop until the threat is eliminated. THAT still stands. HOWEVER, it is VINCENT HIMSELF that recognizes that Catherine is his reason for fighting, the balm to his rage, the reason to his beastly rage. She gives him a reason to come back to himself AND a reason NOT to kill. Vincent defines himself as "LOST" without her at his side.
4) CHANGES from 208: Cat uses her VOICE ALONE to talk Vincent down. She shot at the LOCK on the gate. Thereafter, the gun was not in play. She gave VINCENT the choice AND TRUSTED that he would make the right one. Which he DID. And she CLEARLY was never threatened personally, as she comes as close to Vincent as she can get. So she never feared in danger for her personal safety.
So TRUST is there between the two. And LOVE is there. And PASSION. ALL of that seen in this episode. Things that were MISSING in 208 and show how far the characters have come since then.
---I LIKED how we got to see how far the characters have come since Season 2. They NEED each other now AND FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE IT. The same exact situation played out VERY DIFFERENTLY here because the characters are assured of their commitment to one another. Vincent WON'T risk his relationship with Catherine--he WILL do what he needs to do to preserve his humanity, which he credits HER with providing him the necessary motivation.
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Post by ebeline on Jun 14, 2015 17:30:44 GMT -5
After I read the comments of some of you, I want to express my point of view. For me you can not compare VinCat S1 and S2. S2 had some tough moments for me wherever I just thought oh nooooo, where VinCat S1 is left. But than I saw that also in the dark the Love of the two mutually allways exsisted. So they have evolved in each S and have grown up to the couple that they are now. Now in S 3 it is to develop further, as much as I would have liked the couple of S1 seen in S2 , it would be unrealistic and boring become permanently. A couple with edges as they are making the show to what is the consensus of the whole: Love conqueres all! Which make the show so romantic. This can be seen well in 3/1 , romance, insecurity, doubt, fear, hope, anger and love. For this reason I am looking forward to S2.
I really love the proposal for this what it was, a moment with overwelming feelings. I don't need the full name or something else. The question how he asked was so from the heart.
The feelings , bodylanguage and expression on the houseboat of the two was great, great.....
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Post by ebeline on Jun 14, 2015 17:35:10 GMT -5
Final Thoughts on this one: 1) LOVED: How Catherine is just waiting for Vincent on the roof at "their" time at the end of the episode, EVEN IF she doesn't expect him to show up. And her deep sadness at thinking he needed the space and wouldn't show. AND she is TRYING to meet Vincent's needs--she asks him if he needs space and if he wants her there at the boathouse. --There is DEFINITE insecurity there--that she may have damaged the relationship irreparably, that he might not want her if some kind of strings/uncertainty attached, concern that the beast issues can't ever be truly behind them. Catherine really worries that SHE IS NOT ENOUGH for Vincent. 2) "We do this TOGETHER or not at all." --Whatever action is taken, it will be together. And neither of them really want to be in this position at all BUT recognize that the only choice would be to ignore someone else's suffering, which they will NOT do. 3) Vincent's Beast issues: As in "Operation: Fake Date," Vincent ADMITS that he literally was on the HUNT to actually KILL the guy. Vincent and Catherine both know when Vincent is on a "mission" and that as an Alpha Predator, he WON'T stop until the threat is eliminated. THAT still stands. HOWEVER, it is VINCENT HIMSELF that recognizes that Catherine is his reason for fighting, the balm to his rage, the reason to his beastly rage. She gives him a reason to come back to himself AND a reason NOT to kill. Vincent defines himself as "LOST" without her at his side. 4) CHANGES from 208: Cat uses her VOICE ALONE to talk Vincent down. She shot at the LOCK on the gate. Thereafter, the gun was not in play. She gave VINCENT the choice AND TRUSTED that he would make the right one. Which he DID. And she CLEARLY was never threatened personally, as she comes as close to Vincent as she can get. So she never feared in danger for her personal safety. So TRUST is there between the two. And LOVE is there. And PASSION. ALL of that seen in this episode. Things that were MISSING in 208 and show how far the characters have come since then. ---I LIKED how we got to see how far the characters have come since Season 2. They NEED each other now AND FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE IT. The same exact situation played out VERY DIFFERENTLY here because the characters are assured of their commitment to one another. Vincent WON'T risk his relationship with Catherine--he WILL do what he needs to do to preserve his humanity, which he credits HER with providing him the necessary motivation. Excactly my thoughts, thanks
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Post by cacosa on Jun 14, 2015 18:06:29 GMT -5
I really enjoy a lot reading each episode analysis of every one who write here ... But yours alwayscrazedbatbfan.... As you dissect every detail. I love it.
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