|
Post by susy on Dec 1, 2014 21:49:41 GMT -5
The last 2 scenes are so cute., Tess shwing how well JT did it and Vinent saying he loves Cat because she is how she is. Both dialogues are so weet!
|
|
|
Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 1, 2014 21:53:11 GMT -5
I have to admit that this episode has grown on me since I first saw it. Cat making the Barbie and Ken comment to Vincent about their life in suburbia! So many cute little moments, particularly Jay going all Jack Nicholson-The Shining by seemingly craze-talking with the fish! And Tess building JT up and being able to work well with JT on a case just like Cat and Vincent compliment one another in their work efforts. So this episode does have its own little gems.
Thanks Jefferen and Susy for watching with me! I always love both of your comments. See you next week for one of my fave episodes of the season --Operation: Fake Date! See you then (and hopefully, others will rejoin us, assuming their fingers are still attached and not permanently damaged from all that PCA voting)!
|
|
|
Post by jefferen on Dec 1, 2014 22:03:23 GMT -5
I have to admit that this episode has grown on me since I first saw it. Cat making the Barbie and Ken comment to Vincent about their life in suburbia! So many cute little moments, particularly Jay going all Jack Nicholson-The Shining by seemingly craze-talking with the fish! And Tess building JT up and being able to work well with JT on a case just like Cat and Vincent compliment one another in their work efforts. So this episode does have its own little gems. Thanks Jefferen and Susy for watching with me! I always love both of your comments. See you next week for one of my fave episodes of the season --Operation: Fake Date! See you then (and hopefully, others will rejoin us, assuming their fingers are still attached and not permanently damaged from all that PCA voting)! I'll b here 1x21 is def one of my favorites! Can't believe we are just about through s2 rewatches
|
|
|
Post by susy on Dec 1, 2014 23:34:01 GMT -5
I´ll be here too. Thanks for sharing your thoughts it is always a pleasure!
|
|
|
Post by lovebatb on Dec 2, 2014 4:56:41 GMT -5
Sorry guys, but I must be honest. I could live without this episode. Despite the JT/Tess part (it was great), in my opinion, it was a waste of the show's precious time. Well, I think all of us already Known that Vincat could never have a normal life because os Cat's personality and Vicent condition (beast). And I can't stop think that Cat's behavior was too much selfish and reckless, really didn't fit with the circunstances of the three episodes before ( 17, 18, 19). And, for God sake, couldn't they have shown us a romantic scene or hot scene between Vincat on that big house? Of, course they couldn't, it's too much to ask.
|
|
|
Post by raniamahd on Dec 2, 2014 7:17:59 GMT -5
Next episode is where it really hits Cat about Gabe. Which is why she almost kills him. She is almost as angry at herself, you can tell, as she is at Gabe. She realizes how truly wrong she has been. Before that, even in that episode, she kept saying Gabe was motivated by trying to "protect" her. Cat has to come to see that Gabe is all about "winning" and dominating. Even Heather's kidnapping wasn't completely enough to wake Catherine up. She still makes excuses. It is only when Gabe glories in talking about dissecting Vincent and is clearly TRYING to hurt Cat that it really hits her. did i tell you before that i like the way you think dear ? lol you have a good point here because remember what Cat said to Gabe in the end of ep 11 when she was all happy and giggling when V unexpectedly saved the day ?! ( he wasn't all lost so i didn't fall in love with a jerk , i am not so screwed ) ! so yes maybe that is the reason she kept coming with excuses for Gabe to avoid facing the fact that she did screw big time when she choose to have any kind of relation with him especially after how much she was stubborn and kept repeating like a robot : i am with Gabe its the right choice ( doesn't look any right now , right ?) and i also agree with you that ep21 was the moment of truth for her about Gabe , although i think deep down she knew it even before she released her anger that she almost killed him ? hint : her saying to V and the group that after the conference tomorrow Gabe will be out of their lives for good and we never have to see him again ! -- meaning = if i can't came with excuses to make my brief relation with him any better than let me forget all about him and that part of my life which doesn't make me feel good about myself ! yeah that a good perspective to look to this ! although i have another funny theory about it i think Cat's surprise about what Gabe reached to is a reflection to what suppose to be our surprise i remember Mr. Kern said they really surprised the audience when Gabe went evil again after we really believed he redeemed himself lol yeah you really surprised us here Mr. Kern we never saw this coming ! i mean all the beasties totally believed that Gabe is a saint now with no selfish hide motivates at all ! no one ever doubted he is innocent like a new born if only he knows lol !
|
|
|
Post by BeastieBoy on Dec 3, 2014 1:57:42 GMT -5
I have to admit that this episode has grown on me since I first saw it. Cat making the Barbie and Ken comment to Vincent about their life in suburbia! So many cute little moments, particularly Jay going all Jack Nicholson-The Shining by seemingly craze-talking with the fish! And Tess building JT up and being able to work well with JT on a case just like Cat and Vincent compliment one another in their work efforts. So this episode does have its own little gems. Thanks Jefferen and Susy for watching with me! I always love both of your comments. See you next week for one of my fave episodes of the season --Operation: Fake Date! See you then (and hopefully, others will rejoin us, assuming their fingers are still attached and not permanently damaged from all that PCA voting)! I just did my own rewatch of Ever After, while putting in another 2500 PCA votes in parallel. This episode has grown on me too. When I first saw it, it was okay - kinda good, not great. But it killed the momentum that was building up towards the finale. And I was quite disappointed that the writers didn't give VinCat any romantic alone time moments in the burbs. But each time I rewatch it, I enjoy it more and more as its own stand alone episode. The interactions between Catherine and Vincent are so different, yet they still have such amazing chemistry with each other that I find the episode entertaining in different ways. Also looking forward to Operation Fake Date, it's one of my favorites as well!
|
|
|
Post by tenshi on Dec 3, 2014 12:55:06 GMT -5
Can't help but say this. Vincent is clearly thinking about living that married life, even before getting inside that house! You just KNOW that the first thing they did was christen every single room in that house! THAT is the reason why Vincent doesn't even get around to unpacking the car until the next day!And Vincent is SO cheerful and happy (and sated) the next morning. Now Cat, on the other hand. . . . Just done my rewatch of Ever After while voting. I have to say I liked this ep from the beginning. Not as much as Beast is the new Black but more than some other Eps of S3. I loved the VinCat interactions in this ep - trying to live a normal life. And their little quarrels. I can really imagine how S3 could go along - the both being together and solving cases together. I would love to see some quarrels like this between the two in S3 and of course some hot make up sex afterwards. I can realy understand why Vincent is so into this "normal live" at the beginning of suburbia. We have to consider that V hasn't had a normal life for over a decade. That's probably why he is more into that normal life than Cat. I like the little innuendos to a "normal couple"- like He is watching TV while She is ? (doing the dishes?). He drinking beer - She drinking Wine. Cat and her Barbie and Ken reference. It's clear that this would not work with VinCat. BTW in S1 V never drank alcohol - did Daddy Reynolds changed that too? The only thing that bottered me a lot in this episode was, that we didn't got one little love scene! It would have been the ideal ep for the showrunners to give beasties what they want. They could have saved the time for the scene with Gabe and the Guy who spotteded Vincent (absolutely useless) and used the time for some hot make out of VinCat! But I didn't looked at the scene like alwayscrazedbatbfan. So with that imagination I'm propitiated with it. I wonderd where Vincent got that Pyjama? Did the FBI got him the Pyjama? He normaly wears no Pyjama in bed - considering Father knows Best and Saturn Returns - he prefers nothing or a jeans. Which for my liking is better than that Pyjama. Did you noticed that in the end scene of VinCat the two of them are walking away from Lizzy D's closet?
|
|
|
Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 3, 2014 13:16:43 GMT -5
All right, final assessment and thoughts about the episode:
I guess that is the thing that sometimes still surprises me about this episode: the controversy with the fans. There are some fans out there that really hated this episode, especially in how Catherine was portrayed in this episode. This episode was obviously meant to be a light, somewhat comical filler episode. It was clearly trying to be a break in the action that would give the cast a few lighter moments and also a few character moments between Vincent and Catherine contrasted with Tess and JT.
The action had been increasing exponentially each week, with Gabe closing in on Vincent and going increasingly off the walls and heading back towards becoming an actual physical beast again (although he was clearly already a "beast" as far as criminal intent and character). Vincent was once again hunted and had reason to feel guilty regarding what his relationship with Catherine was doing as far as the disruption of her life. You had those season 1 elements that people had loved and were moving towards a season finale showdown. So "Ever After" was seemingly meant to just be that comic relief before the final battle to come.
The problem with "Ever After" is what is appears to say about the VinCat relationship. Here is this epic love, yet Cat seems unable to endure a moment in the sun with her boyfriend and would prefer NY and his life at risk. That is what many fans felt, yet that is not the real thing that the writers, in my mind, were going for. After all, for Catherine, she has just been isolated almost in the country somewhere (because really, they shouldn't interact with the neighbors at all. They need to be as low-profile as possible due to being in witness protection and having the manhunt still going on in NY. I mean, even in my smalltown in NC, we get the NY1 channel now. With the internet, all kinds of news is at your fingertips, so VinCat need to be completely off the radar). So Cat is completely out of her element and not allowed to participate in the investigation in any way to try to clear Vincent (or herself) or to build any kind of real life at all. And Cat is just supposed to ignore everything she loved (like the Yankees) and is supposed to immediately be this completely different person, a mystery writer. Catherine has to trust that others will take up the case and get Vincent exonerated, all without their input, and they are just supposed to wait around until they can begin actually living their own lives again. There is no way of knowing how long such a situation would even last. I would certainly expect to be uneasy in such a similar situation! Catherine has really had her life-purpose taken away from her and not really allowed to do anything but sit back and wait. Had Catherine actually been thrilled and happy with this situation, then she really would have been some female that only had life through her boyfriend and would NOT be the strong-willed, active and self-actualized character that we all have grown to love.
So Catherine really gets a raw deal in this episode, when you think about it. It will naturally be a much easier situation for Vincent who HAS hade to live in hiding for over a decade. For Vincent, he has lived in either a houseboat, old abandoned building, or old chemical warehouse. So being in the country and having some freedom PLUS the woman you love should be a MUCH easier transition for him. Vincent had been denied having his chosen profession for some time, so he was used to having to stay indoors for long extended periods of time and having only one other person to talk to. And in this situation, he finally gets time in hiding WITH Catherine, so it is no wonder that Vincent is so jovial throughout most of the episode. Had the two of them been in surburbia longer, I think that the dynamic would have changed. I mean, Catherine never gets the chance to actually make this life "hers" in the sense of actually building a real life someplace instead of just being stuck somewhere with your life on permanent "on hold" pattern.
What it comes down to: yes, there is another way that this concept could have been presented. However, I think it would have required that 220 actually be a two-parter so that we could actually have a chance to SEE VinCat in this new life while still having time left to do the action sequences and move the plot forward. It would have been nice to see Vincent and Catherine actually moving through the house and deciding how to merge their things and decorate their living space TOGETHER. It would have been nice to see them quarrelling over space and who does the cooking (obviously Vincent as we all KNOW Cat can't cook) and dishes. We could have had sweet moments where VinCat end up splashing each other and horsing around (think "Date Night") in the kitchen while arguing over whether their future house would have to have a dishwasher or not. It could have led to other couples-moments where maybe Vincent comments on how a certain room would make a good nursery and having Catherine panic about how soon Vincent actually wants to start a family. And certainly, we could have seen Vincent and Catherine having a chance to be romantic with one another and actually have that camping trip into the surrounding woods that they had talked about doing for so long. However, you are not likely to get a chance to see this kind of situation on television. The network would be likely to say that people don't want to just turn on their television to see everyday home life of couples. However, it would have been nice to see VinCat in more domestic scenes together. Then, when it was over, you could actually see some real REGRET for Catherine as she realizes that she LIKES having quiet moments home alone with Vincent, when there are no demands on them career-wise or from other sources. What is sad is that it IS really difficult to have many of these scenes with sweet moments of domestic bliss for VinCat due to the action-packed sequences and further plot development.
And that brings us back to the whole problem with "Ever After" and episodes like it: how do you have a moving plotline, with action-sequences, and still have time for the romantic moments? You have enough time to have VinCat bemoan the fact that they don't have anything normal, yet you don't get to see just regular domestic happiness because it doesn't move the plot along. Sigh. Finding that right balance THAT INCLUDES THE ROMANCE would be my fondest wish. However, you risk losing fans who say that VinCat is no longer interesting if not having to fight constantly for their love and against things determined to tear them apart.
"Date Night" from Season 1 was beautiful and a favorite of many fans because it DID find a way to show little moments of VinCat happiness and hope amidst the chaos. You got to actually SEE why Vincent would be willing to risk taking pills that would ultimately kill him quickly because such short moments of happiness with Catherine were worth it to him. However, even in that episode, Vincent and Catherine got to go out into the world rather than being confined in hiding in a community they didn't know while having others decide their fate. So "Ever After" gets a lot of grief when it actually realistically shows the difficulty of witnesses forcibly being relocated from anything and everything they know AND not even having their own careers to fall back upon. Instead, they are expected to be someone entirely different, and in VinCat's situation, really not interact with the world at all. Who would want to have their lives effectively put "on hold?" For Vincent, his life had basically been in hiding and on hold for years. So he didn't really have much to adapt to. In fact, his life has improved in that he has the ideal home WITH the person he loves instead of having to sneak in and out of her apartment whenever stolen moments could be found. So no wonder it was harder for Catherine. At least in NY, she could take part in the action and know what was going on and actually make sure that others really pursued the case in the right way. However, "Ever After" doesn't show us WHY Catherine has such a hard time in suburbia--it really just seems to show that brief part of the stay where she appears difficult. After all, Catherine had clearly gone multiple nights in a row without even being able to sleep due to not being able to adapt to suburbia and the radical change to her life. Yes, she enjoyed bedroom activities with Vincent, but he was able to sleep thereafter while she was not. So she ends up wondering around this huge house in the dead of night until morning comes. And she is desperate for anything that says "home" to her, so Vincent fussing at her for still being a Yankees fan seemed a bit much to me. I'm from NC, and I still root for the Yankees. So Vincent arguably wasn't as understandable as maybe he could have been.
At any rate, we may continue to have the "Ever After" type of problem continuing into Season 3--you need to present some kind of threat to the VinCat relationship to keep the action going and keep the desperation to preserve the love there. Yet those action sequences and developing of plotline revolving around the villains and cases or Beasts keeps you from having some of the sweet moments of just seeing normality for these two. And I DO think we need to actually SEE some of those sweet and tender moments--after all, if they don't get them, why would they be so willing to fight to keep it? So BALANCE is key to everything, and "Ever After" unfortunately doesn't have the time to give us those sweet romantic moments that you KNOW must have occurred at some point (after all, as I said before, there is a REASON that Vincent doesn't unpack the car until a whole DAY later--he and Cat were "getting used" to the house and all of its rooms by christening them in the type of scenes too often censured on regular network tv!).
I still think "Ever After" has some sweet and decent moments, even if it fails to live up to the potential it could have. It was a weird situation for VinCat to be in. But Vincent responds to the whole thing in an amazingly sweet way--he stands by Catherine needing to have a life and purpose outside of himself. And he is proud of her for needing to "kick butt." Catherine has had to be so supportive of Vincent in the past through his many tumultuous transitions, and it was nice to see Vincent getting a chance to see and deal with Cat's needs, both professionally and personally. Vincent just won't let Cat feel guilty for spoiling suburbia for them--he loves she did the right thing, even if it cost him. So that was definitely relationship development in my book!
|
|
|
Post by corinne on Dec 10, 2014 3:16:47 GMT -5
I must admit to have been a bit disappointed by this one. As I said in another thread, I wouldn't like a classical romance drama show. No way. But for once they were out the city, quiet and nearly alone in that big house. After all the rush and violence and stress we and they had had before, I would have loved to see more of them together as a quiet happy couple, sharing romantic moments, for God's sake, they deserved that!
Ok there were some nice things, that's right, but the decor had me hope for a breif reprive in all that rush/violence. On half of one episode I would have enjoyed having just that....
|
|
|
Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 10, 2014 13:36:59 GMT -5
Corinne,
I agree. I, too, wish that we could have seen VinCat actually BEING domestic and building a life together. However, as I said in my above post, it really wouldn't have been realistic at that time. They weren't getting a chance at living their OWN life--they were having to live someone else's life for an indeterminable amount of time. They had to adopt personas given to them by the FBI and pretend to be people that they weren't, in a life that would be taken from them at any moment, depending on what resulted from Knox's efforts. All while knowing that the investigation was going on back in NY without them being able to work on the very thing that would REALLY free them to have a life together. So no wonder Cat, in particular, can't relax. Cat CAN'T leave her fate and Vincent's in the hands of others. Self-exiled Suburbia was really just a fancy jail cell for her.
Still, when you get past the fact that you aren't really going to get to see VinCat relax, the episode still does have its moments. Vincent gets a chance to show that he really does love Cat, even with all her quirks and inability to relax when a case presents itself. He loves her dedication and that she really does go to the ends of the earth for justice. Vincent really would rather be on the run and possibly caught at any moment BUT with Cat in NY then have her so unhappy by having her life on-hold in suburbia. So you just have to love the MESSAGE that comes out of the episode: they are determined to have THEIR happy ending, on THEIR OWN terms.
|
|
|
Post by corinne on Dec 10, 2014 14:49:52 GMT -5
Hey alwaycrazedbatbfan (are we allowed to shorten your pseudo name, it took me some time here, LOL) Just kidding of course
You are right, I know Cat is like that and it was perfectly understandable to see her that way, and I get the message they sent us.... Now, I'm really wondering when they will have time! I mean we know there'll always be beast issues and villains to cope with and people to defend, and we need that, so do you really think we'll have a whole 10-20 minutes of an episode in season 3 with them just enjoying themselves?! Really! I'm not sure about that...
|
|
|
Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 10, 2014 17:08:07 GMT -5
That is my concern as well Corinne. I really REALLY want to see VinCat actually BE domestic and romantic. However, to keep an episode moving, we are not likely to get more than short VinCat moments, although I have never understood why not. It seems to me, in reading comments on this forum and elsewhere, that what the fans tune in for IS to see VinCat.
On the same note, I was actually reading the Unofficial 25th Anniversary Companion to the Original "Beauty and the Beast" tv series from the late 80's (with Linda Hamilton playing the role of Catherine Chandler and Ron Perlman playing the role of man/beast Vincent), and they actually had a whole several pages of the writing staff/directors and others associated with that tv show debating whether what they put on the screen worked versus what they WANTED to put on the screen. In their Season 2, the network would NOT allow them to get Vincent and Catherine together. Plus, the network said they HAD to do more action-oriented episodes rather then Vincent/Catherine moments. A real debate emerged among the writing staff, many who wanted to forward the romance versus the action and wanted more character pieces then Vincent or Catherine just beating up on bad guys each week. It was really interesting reading and explained (to me, at any rate) WHY the writers and directors couldn't just do what they wanted. It was felt by the network and showrunners that just pushing the romance would erode the audience. And the network AND writers just never completely understood the audience I felt. (One writer even commented on the fact that a FAN actually vandalized his car after Catherine was killed off on the show. He noted how the audience felt that the show was theirs. My thoughts are that, as fans, we ARE the consumers and the ones the show is targeted to. We keep it on the air. So yeah, as an audience, you DO expect them to take into account what we might want to see on our screens.)
Frankly, I think that if an audience is tuning into a show called "Beauty and the Beast," it is because you EXPECT a love story AND want to see that. I want to see why that love is so worth fighting for, not just see said fights with bad guys. Sigh. I think neither the original series nor the current series exactly GET what the audience is tuning in for, and that is for the romance. Yes, I do want some mythology, if it is decently written, about beasts, and I do want to see Catherine working cases some. But I most want to see those little moments between VinCat that just show their Epic Romance. Those little moments are what I replay, over and over again.
|
|
|
Post by corinne on Dec 11, 2014 2:42:59 GMT -5
That must have been an interesting read indeed! I think you have a good point. They should give the fans what they want, at least once. Now maybe the day we get that, will be the day the series end, so maybe, I'm not so impatient after all ;-) The more we wait and expect, the crazier and more passionate we become!
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 11, 2014 6:52:45 GMT -5
Hey alwaycrazedbatbfan (are we allowed to shorten your pseudo name, it took me some time here, LOL) Just kidding of course You are right, I know Cat is like that and it was perfectly understandable to see her that way, and I get the message they sent us.... Now, I'm really wondering when they will have time! I mean we know there'll always be beast issues and villains to cope with and people to defend, and we need that, so do you really think we'll have a whole 10-20 minutes of an episode in season 3 with them just enjoying themselves?! Really! I'm not sure about that... 10-20 mins? lol impossible! maybe we get 5 if we are lucky. i am being serious here... it would be amazing if they gave us that but i doubt it. season 3 will be very fast paced so if they manage to give us some deep/quiet moments of 5 mins each then i will be satisfied i think
|
|