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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 10:20:57 GMT -5
Sorry, I understand all that you guys are saying, but I completely disagree. I don't think that running for his responsibilities and simply shutting Catherine down is doing the right thing as well as making her be with a man she doesn't love. It's not right for her and it certainly isn't right for Gabe. If he's indeed the good man the writers are trying to show us, he deserves someone that can give him his heart. As noble as it might seen, I still think Vincent took the easy route. He never apologized, never explained himself to anyone, not even to Tori and he totally lead her in. As hateful as she was, she was a victim and deserved respect. So he do need to man up, look at Cat's eyes and say I'm sorry. If he never do that, he'll never be a man. And, frankly, I'm tired of this almost-man that it's on my screen every week. The circunstances that lead him to his wrong doings were beyond his control, but it's past time for him to admit he was wrong about the things he could control. In a way, Tori's death is his fault so he should be depressed by it. To my eyes, Vincent isn't redeemed and I'm afraid that the writers aren't really interested on doing that. I have to disagree with you. Don't think Vincent took the easy route last ep. Actually, I think he's more mature now than ever. Despite his feelings, he RESPECTED Catherine's decision to be with Gabe. True that he was defending too much Gabe, but I think that came out of his guilt and from the fact that he wants to see Catherine happy and he truly thinks that Gabe is worthier than him in that role. I don't think Tori was Vincent's victim AT ALL. She was very concious of where and with who was she getting involved. She knew Vincent had feelings for Catherine all the way (from the beginning and until the end), Vincent never lied to her about having feelings or wanting a relationship with her further than the one they had. And i don't think that Tori's death is HIS fault! Did he push her to go find JT by her own? She was over confident and in that moment, desperate to recover him. Maybe Tori's reasons to go save JT were Vincent related but from that to think that it was Vincent fault? In last episode he admitted his wrongs, already apologized with Catherine in previous episodes, and THINKS that Catherine has moved on and has no feelings for him anymore. IMO, in ep 13 he was more man than in other moments of the show. He respected Catherine's decisions and tried to help her every time she asked him for it. On the other hand, we can't expect his evolution to happen in 1 single episode. He's evolving since mid-end of ep 12 and through 13. As for character development, so far, I've seen more in Vincent's than Catherine's. That's my opinion. The writers aren't showing any development in the character. Vincent simply went back to the man he was in S1 and that's no development at all. After everything the character went though it seems more like regression, IMO. And that's a problem with the writing and the show runners misjudgement. They're proving time and time again that they aren't capable of dealing with the task they brought upon themselves. If Vincent really respected Catherine decision, he would try to understand why she was making the decision of not being with Gabe, not prove that she was wrong on doing so. He took the easiest route by putting Gabe as an obstacle that would allow him to run from his feelings. It's easier to have Catherine in a relationship with another man so he can have the false sense of accomplishment that he made her happy than face her misery for all the things he did, including showing his trophy-beast to her face countless times. I never said that Tori was Vincent's victim. I understand that she was the one to blame for being in a toxic relationship. I said she was a victim in the sense that she, too, didn't ask to be a beast and have all those uncontrollable urges mixed with her false sense that the world spun around her due to her spoiled life. She made all the wrong decisions and wasn't exactly a good person, yes, but Vincent was really unfair to her. It's pretty clear that Vincent didn't show any respect for her. He accepted her presence without questioning, accepted her bed and her devotion without giving anything back. In the end, she died because he never tried to put her in her place before just dumping her. Of course she wouldn't admit defeat and try to have him under her claws by any means necessary. If he had been honest and fought for his dignity while she was around, would she do what she did in the end? No, she wouldn't. Because it's pretty clear that she didn't care a bit for anything else that wasn't her happy beast world. So the blame is on him in the sense that he lead her to make the decisions she made. Where did Vincent apologizes? In the dungeon he merely said he took the wrong path. Is that an apology? Not in my book. If that's all the writers can do, I'm not surprise to see the fans outrage.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 14, 2014 10:43:33 GMT -5
In my opinion, we don't know the full extent of the relationship that Vincent had with Tori. I can't believe that it was all one sided. I know it wasn't in the episode, but we did see an intimate almost kiss with Tori pic........it would never seen the light of day, if the writers were not implying that they were more than just physical. Vincent did grieve for Tori.....he was close with her, they did what every couple does......they went out on dates (confirmed by Cat and Tori in the precinct) they had a connection that Cat could never have with Vincent (said by the writers and by Tori and you can make that what you will) They lived together for a couple of months, sharing most of their time together because as Tori said, Vincent was all she had.
Vincent would have been a heartless "fill in the blank" if he didn't have feelings for Tori. Was it love.........Vincent never said. But has Vincent said that he even "loves" Catherine this whole entire season?? True,........Vincent hears Cats heartbeat, A LOT.....but he also hears others too. Vincent said to Tori that he felt conflicted with her......he didn't like the way he felt in his mind and how he acted.......but he didn't attribute wanting to feel more like himself that to Catherine. We see Vincent sneaking to call Catherine and it is about the "necklace/gem" and the mythology............others can see that he wants to be with her, but he is all about finding out about the Past and how that fits with "who he is". You can make assumptions, but if you look at it objectively, he hasn't shown more than that.
Even when Vincent "does the right thing" and saves Tess and the lives of the others in the Precinct.........He wasn't saving Cat. In fact he didn't even break Cat's hand cuffs when she went to try and save the hostages. Catherine turns off the lights to protect Vincent. Vincent stays to save the hostages. Vincent does save Cat from the sniper, but that doesn't mean that he loves her, because she actually helps him first and I see Vincent as reciprocating. Again, Vincent is not really showing Cat he "loves" her with this act, but he is more surprised that she did something to protect him, even after he told her he didn't care about her or the others. Catherine in this scene again show how much she sacrifices for Vincent because she loves him.
The Whole Breakup between Tori and Vincent is still dubious to me. Vincent has this conversation with Tori outside JT's and he says he needs a break. Then Tori goes back to the boathouse ........she isn't packing her clothes BTW. Tori calls Vincent and Vincent tells her about JT and tells her he will "talk with her later". This doesn't scream that they are entirely "broken up". Next thing we see is Tori saving JT.......for JT or to make things right with Vincent, who knows........and Vincent tries to save Tori and Catherine ends up saving Vincent AGAIN!!
The last conversation of Vincent, and what some call his "Redemption", comes in the form of a conversation with Cat in the dungeon. Vincent "confesses" about the things he has done wrong and the wrong choices but a lot has to do with Tori and he throws some regret Catherine's way. He admits to Cat about how he chose the wrong path and that he understands how people are in danger around him and he wouldn't want to lose Cat too. I would say that was a start , but this really isn't an apology......it is an "Acknowledgement" of his actions. Catherine, as always......says it isn't his fault. Cat also says that he is also a "victim" in HER whispered apology that he doesn't hear. So many times Catherine is so easily forgiving to Vincent......he doesn't have to work hard for her to soften and listen to him.
IMO, Vincent hasn't really redeemed himself to anyone. He hasn't really "apologized" to Catherine in a truly sincere way. His acknowledgement of his wrong choices and his "bad boyfriend" behavior and how that affected Cat's trust issues but it was said not in an "apology" but as a statement at the bar. Maybe all this admitting is satisfactory to some of you and a true redemption of Vincent but I feel it falls short of it.
*****Vincent needs to face Catherine and look her in the eyes and admit to her that he realizes how much he has hurt her.....he needs to understand what she has been going through and acknowledge her pain and heartache........he needs to put himself in her shoes as well and understand what he might have done if he had lost her..............I want him to sincerely and DIRECTLY talk to her and express his apology. I don't want it as a collective apology with Tori or anything else, but to her and her alone. I don't want Catherine to have any doubt about his feelings and I don't want to ASSUME ANYTHING. I want it to be clear. I think Catherine could also apologize to Vincent, but I want her to express how hurt she has been...........because this girl has suffered, from her losing Vincent, Thomas' death, finding out about Reynolds, losing the man she loves to a She-Beast......come on, I mean this girl has had a lot to deal with too. Vincent needs to hear this from her. I want it all hashed out. The writers had all this exposition in this episode, ..........I want a True, HONEST exposition between Catherine and Vincent.
I just think so much is assumed in Vincent's behavior.............I give credit to Vincent for admitting that he loves Catherine to JT, but JT kind of threw it out there FIRST......, but it sounded more forced to me than out of love. I know he is trying to be strong I guess.........he sees Gabe as a guy more "worthy" than him". He is pushing her away and we are right back where we were last year. It is like these characters haven't learned anything at all.
I think that Vincent is back on a path to redemption but he is far from it with Catherine. We have a lot of ground to cover in the next 3 episodes..........I am afraid that a reconciliation will be so lightswitched that it will make all the starving Beasties happy, but it won't be truly satisfying to me. Hey, I am with you all Banana loving Beasties, but when Catherine and Vincent finally get back together, I want all the old baggage thrown out the window!! A Fresh New Beginning...............
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Post by kiki09 on Feb 14, 2014 11:14:40 GMT -5
In my opinion, we don't know the full extent of the relationship that Vincent had with Tori. I can't believe that it was all one sided. I know it wasn't in the episode, but we did see an intimate almost kiss with Tori pic........it would never seen the light of day, if the writers were not implying that they were more than just physical. Vincent did grieve for Tori.....he was close with her, they did what every couple does......they went out on dates (confirmed by Cat and Tori in the precinct) they had a connection that Cat could never have with Vincent (said by the writers and by Tori and you can make that what you will) They lived together for a couple of months, sharing most of their time together because as Tori said, Vincent was all she had. Vincent would have been a heartless "fill in the blank" if he didn't have feelings for Tori. Was it love.........Vincent never said. But has Vincent said that he even "loves" Catherine this whole entire season?? True,........Vincent hears Cats heartbeat, A LOT.....but he also hears others too. Vincent said to Tori that he felt conflicted with her......he didn't like the way he felt in his mind and how he acted.......but he didn't attribute wanting to feel more like himself that to Catherine. We see Vincent sneaking to call Catherine and it is about the "necklace/gem" and the mythology............others can see that he wants to be with her, but he is all about finding out about the Past and how that fits with "who he is". You can make assumptions, but if you look at it objectively, he hasn't shown more than that. Even when Vincent "does the right thing" and saves Tess and the lives of the others in the Precinct.........He wasn't saving Cat. In fact he didn't even break Cat's hand cuffs when she went to try and save the hostages. Catherine turns off the lights to protect Vincent. Vincent stays to save the hostages. Vincent does save Cat from the sniper, but that doesn't mean that he loves her, because she actually helps him first and I see Vincent as reciprocating. Again, Vincent is not really showing Cat he "loves" her with this act, but he is more surprised that she did something to protect him, even after he told her he didn't care about her or the others. Catherine in this scene again show how much she sacrifices for Vincent because she loves him. The Whole Breakup between Tori and Vincent is still dubious to me. Vincent has this conversation with Tori outside JT's and he says he needs a break. Then Tori goes back to the boathouse ........she isn't packing her clothes BTW. Tori calls Vincent and Vincent tells her about JT and tells her he will "talk with her later". This doesn't scream that they are entirely "broken up". Next thing we see is Tori saving JT.......for JT or to make things right with Vincent, who knows........and Vincent tries to save Tori and Catherine ends up saving Vincent AGAIN!! The last conversation of Vincent, and what some call his "Redemption", comes in the form of a conversation with Cat in the dungeon. Vincent "confesses" about the things he has done wrong and the wrong choices but a lot has to do with Tori and he throws some regret Catherine's way. He admits to Cat about how he chose the wrong path and that he understands how people are in danger around him and he wouldn't want to lose Cat too. I would say that was a start , but this really isn't an apology......it is an "Acknowledgement" of his actions. Catherine, as always......says it isn't his fault. Cat also says that he is also a "victim" in HER whispered apology that he doesn't hear. So many times Catherine is so easily forgiving to Vincent......he doesn't have to work hard for her to soften and listen to him. IMO, Vincent hasn't really redeemed himself to anyone. He hasn't really "apologized" to Catherine in a truly sincere way. His acknowledgement of his wrong choices and his "bad boyfriend" behavior and how that affected Cat's trust issues but it was said not in an "apology" but as a statement at the bar. Maybe all this admitting is satisfactory to some of you and a true redemption of Vincent but I feel it falls short of it. *****Vincent needs to face Catherine and look her in the eyes and admit to her that he realizes how much he has hurt her.....he needs to understand what she has been going through and acknowledge her pain and heartache........he needs to put himself in her shoes as well and understand what he might have done if he had lost her..............I want him to sincerely and DIRECTLY talk to her and express his apology. I don't want it as a collective apology with Tori or anything else, but to her and her alone. I don't want Catherine to have any doubt about his feelings and I don't want to ASSUME ANYTHING. I want it to be clear. I think Catherine could also apologize to Vincent, but I want her to express how hurt she has been...........because this girl has suffered, from her losing Vincent, Thomas' death, finding out about Reynolds, losing the man she loves to a She-Beast......come on, I mean this girl has had a lot to deal with too. Vincent needs to hear this from her. I want it all hashed out. The writers had all this exposition in this episode, ..........I want a True, HONEST exposition between Catherine and Vincent. I just think so much is assumed in Vincent's behavior.............I give credit to Vincent for admitting that he loves Catherine to JT, but JT kind of threw it out there FIRST......, but it sounded more forced to me than out of love. I know he is trying to be strong I guess.........he sees Gabe as a guy more "worthy" than him". He is pushing her away and we are right back where we were last year. It is like these characters haven't learned anything at all. I think that Vincent is back on a path to redemption but he is far from it with Catherine. We have a lot of ground to cover in the next 3 episodes..........I am afraid that a reconciliation will be so lightswitched that it will make all the starving Beasties happy, but it won't be truly satisfying to me. Hey, I am with you all Banana loving Beasties, but when Catherine and Vincent finally get back together, I want all the old baggage thrown out the window!! A Fresh New Beginning...............I agree with a lot of what you said and you've made some key points but it seems like even him being on the 'path to redemption' is not good enough for some, which does not make sense at all. Making steps towards a change should be recognised and acknowledged. It's not as if he's not trying. Maybe not enough for some, but steps have been taken. And like anapi -season3baby :) pointed out, this all can't happen overnight let alone two eps. Like you, I really want them to hash all of this out, have the conversations (very quintessential VinCat) and I hope they allow for this. Cause I think it's important for both of them to understand where the other is coming from and how the other feels or has been feeling.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 12:06:24 GMT -5
In my opinion, we don't know the full extent of the relationship that Vincent had with Tori. I can't believe that it was all one sided. I know it wasn't in the episode, but we did see an intimate almost kiss with Tori pic........it would never seen the light of day, if the writers were not implying that they were more than just physical. Vincent did grieve for Tori.....he was close with her, they did what every couple does......they went out on dates (confirmed by Cat and Tori in the precinct) they had a connection that Cat could never have with Vincent (said by the writers and by Tori and you can make that what you will) They lived together for a couple of months, sharing most of their time together because as Tori said, Vincent was all she had. Vincent would have been a heartless "fill in the blank" if he didn't have feelings for Tori. Was it love.........Vincent never said. But has Vincent said that he even "loves" Catherine this whole entire season?? True,........Vincent hears Cats heartbeat, A LOT.....but he also hears others too. Vincent said to Tori that he felt conflicted with her......he didn't like the way he felt in his mind and how he acted.......but he didn't attribute wanting to feel more like himself that to Catherine. We see Vincent sneaking to call Catherine and it is about the "necklace/gem" and the mythology............others can see that he wants to be with her, but he is all about finding out about the Past and how that fits with "who he is". You can make assumptions, but if you look at it objectively, he hasn't shown more than that. Even when Vincent "does the right thing" and saves Tess and the lives of the others in the Precinct.........He wasn't saving Cat. In fact he didn't even break Cat's hand cuffs when she went to try and save the hostages. Catherine turns off the lights to protect Vincent. Vincent stays to save the hostages. Vincent does save Cat from the sniper, but that doesn't mean that he loves her, because she actually helps him first and I see Vincent as reciprocating. Again, Vincent is not really showing Cat he "loves" her with this act, but he is more surprised that she did something to protect him, even after he told her he didn't care about her or the others. Catherine in this scene again show how much she sacrifices for Vincent because she loves him. The Whole Breakup between Tori and Vincent is still dubious to me. Vincent has this conversation with Tori outside JT's and he says he needs a break. Then Tori goes back to the boathouse ........she isn't packing her clothes BTW. Tori calls Vincent and Vincent tells her about JT and tells her he will "talk with her later". This doesn't scream that they are entirely "broken up". Next thing we see is Tori saving JT.......for JT or to make things right with Vincent, who knows........and Vincent tries to save Tori and Catherine ends up saving Vincent AGAIN!! The last conversation of Vincent, and what some call his "Redemption", comes in the form of a conversation with Cat in the dungeon. Vincent "confesses" about the things he has done wrong and the wrong choices but a lot has to do with Tori and he throws some regret Catherine's way. He admits to Cat about how he chose the wrong path and that he understands how people are in danger around him and he wouldn't want to lose Cat too. I would say that was a start , but this really isn't an apology......it is an "Acknowledgement" of his actions. Catherine, as always......says it isn't his fault. Cat also says that he is also a "victim" in HER whispered apology that he doesn't hear. So many times Catherine is so easily forgiving to Vincent......he doesn't have to work hard for her to soften and listen to him. IMO, Vincent hasn't really redeemed himself to anyone. He hasn't really "apologized" to Catherine in a truly sincere way. His acknowledgement of his wrong choices and his "bad boyfriend" behavior and how that affected Cat's trust issues but it was said not in an "apology" but as a statement at the bar. Maybe all this admitting is satisfactory to some of you and a true redemption of Vincent but I feel it falls short of it. *****Vincent needs to face Catherine and look her in the eyes and admit to her that he realizes how much he has hurt her.....he needs to understand what she has been going through and acknowledge her pain and heartache........he needs to put himself in her shoes as well and understand what he might have done if he had lost her..............I want him to sincerely and DIRECTLY talk to her and express his apology. I don't want it as a collective apology with Tori or anything else, but to her and her alone. I don't want Catherine to have any doubt about his feelings and I don't want to ASSUME ANYTHING. I want it to be clear. I think Catherine could also apologize to Vincent, but I want her to express how hurt she has been...........because this girl has suffered, from her losing Vincent, Thomas' death, finding out about Reynolds, losing the man she loves to a She-Beast......come on, I mean this girl has had a lot to deal with too. Vincent needs to hear this from her. I want it all hashed out. The writers had all this exposition in this episode, ..........I want a True, HONEST exposition between Catherine and Vincent. I just think so much is assumed in Vincent's behavior.............I give credit to Vincent for admitting that he loves Catherine to JT, but JT kind of threw it out there FIRST......, but it sounded more forced to me than out of love. I know he is trying to be strong I guess.........he sees Gabe as a guy more "worthy" than him". He is pushing her away and we are right back where we were last year. It is like these characters haven't learned anything at all. I think that Vincent is back on a path to redemption but he is far from it with Catherine. We have a lot of ground to cover in the next 3 episodes..........I am afraid that a reconciliation will be so lightswitched that it will make all the starving Beasties happy, but it won't be truly satisfying to me. Hey, I am with you all Banana loving Beasties, but when Catherine and Vincent finally get back together, I want all the old baggage thrown out the window!! A Fresh New Beginning............... I never said that Vincent didn't have feelings for Tori. They were pretty obvious. He pitied her and felt guilty because he killed her father and left her "alone" - since I don't know how a person can be alone and have so many contacts that allowed him to be in every newspaper in town and go to a TV show - in the world. But it's clear to me that his feelings didn't even touch the ones of a romantic relationship. Those pics of him sharing a intimate kiss with her only proves that he tried, but didn't manage to bring himself to care about her. Trying doesn't takes his guilt of misleading her, though. On the contrary, only makes him even more responsible for her end. He tried, it didn't work, he never made clear to her that it wasn't working until the final moment. That's why she couldn't accept being dumped. Their so called dates were only an ambush for their persecutors so how is that real? Tori's insecurity when referring to those same dates to Catherine only proves that she knew quite well the dates weren't real, their relationship wasn't real. Vincent didn't need to sneak out of the bed at night to talk to Catherine if he wasn't doing that to reconnect with her in the only way he could and that was through the gem and beasts mystery. If he wasn't trying to exclude Tori of his life, we would do that with her around. He wasn't trying to protect her from the danger because he knew she could handle herself in a fight. Proof of that was that he exposed her publically and he was using her in the ambush on boathouse. He never tried to use Cat when there was danger around, not even during his memory loss. The search for the gem was an excuse for that reconnection and Tori knew that. She always knew that she couldn't compete with Cat and that Vincent would eventually let her know she didn't have a place in his life, thus her being aggressive and spitful in all her interactions with her and Vincent's friends. I agree with you. Much is given for the audience to assume and it's not shown and that's what I referred when I talked about the writers inefficiency of bringing to the screen what they were supposed to. That's the big problem of this season and the reason why so many fans are insatisfied, me included. I don't disagree that Vincent is in the path of redemption, but I think this path isn't being handled well and it's giving me a sour taste in my mouth. Specially because I don't see any evolution on Vincent's character. He went from a kind soul to a heartless beast to a kind soul again without any change so it's not clear to me what improved on him. And I fear that his redemption will be closed in next episode with him saving someone and that's it. No apology, no talk coming from the heart and no real regret. It's not enough for me.
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Post by bookworm on Feb 14, 2014 12:09:00 GMT -5
In ep 14 there will be a VinCat chat at his place..... before we let's forget the shirtless part and see what can happen at this scene. Even if spoilers are misleading there is often a good reason why they are hinted! In this case I believe this has to be an important conversation between VinCat. Now what's the BIG discussion we all expect to happen at some point? maybe THAT talk when he apologizes/ explains some of his past actions or asks for her forgiveness and begs her to give him a chance.... one last time.... I'm not sure, maybe it will take place in 15 or happen in a totally different way from what we want to see...... but they may surprise us: it can happen!!!! this will be a game ghanger ep after all! (Though they say that every 2nd week... )
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 14, 2014 12:28:51 GMT -5
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 14, 2014 12:29:25 GMT -5
In ep 14 there will be a VinCat chat at his place..... before we let's forget the shirtless part and see what can happen at this scene. Even if spoilers are misleading there is often a good reason why they are hinted! In this case I believe this has to be an important conversation between VinCat. Now what's the BIG discussion we all expect to happen at some point? maybe THAT talk when he apologizes/ explains some of his past actions or asks for her forgiveness and begs her to give him a chance.... one last time.... I'm not sure, maybe it will take place in 15 or happen in a totally different way from what we want to see...... but they may surprise us: it can happen!!!! this will be a game ghanger ep after all! (Though they say that every 2nd week... ) You know I am going to say this and I know it is blasphemy, but..........I don't give a Rat's Patooty to see Jay take his shirt off if we aren't going to have Vincent and Catherine going at it like Bunnies. There I said it. Having Cat see Vincent with his shirt off is just a cheap gratuitous way of having Cat have lustful feelings for Vincent! Come on writers, you did this already........season 1 remember?? Doggone it, WE KNOW VINCENT AND CATHERINE HAVE THE HOTS FOR ONE ANOTHER..........let's see them open up emotionally to one another FIRST! Geez. Put on your little "writers caps" and write something meaningful between them. Please don't show/imply that Gabe and Cat had sex and the next minute you show Cat going all googly eyes for Vincent's Pecs................it just isn't cool.......seriously, cringeworthy.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 14, 2014 12:37:55 GMT -5
happy valentines day loved this hope we get more of these in the next three episodes, really do!
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Post by bookworm on Feb 14, 2014 12:43:30 GMT -5
I'm a little sad because all they have is old pics..... This is not a happy valentine for vincat Why couldn't they bring them together by this ep?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 14, 2014 12:49:08 GMT -5
I'm a little sad because all they have is old pics..... This is not a happy valentine for vincat Why couldn't they bring them together by this ep? i thought oh my i want recent ones now please magic vincat be back soon
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Post by bookworm on Feb 14, 2014 12:54:28 GMT -5
I'm a little sad because all they have is old pics..... This is not a happy valentine for vincat Why couldn't they bring them together by this ep? i thought oh my i want recent ones now please magic vincat be back soon the timing of VinCat "reunion" sucks.... could've happened a little sooner, just in time for Valentine's Day imo. Well I guess it's too late for that but maybe next year??? Btw sorry for being grumpy today! these so called holidays are not really my fav days...
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Post by kiki09 on Feb 14, 2014 13:00:26 GMT -5
i thought oh my i want recent ones now please magic vincat be back soon the timing of VinCat "reunion" sucks.... could've happened a little sooner, just in time for Valentine's Day imo. Well I guess it's too late for that but maybe next year??? Btw sorry for being grumpy today! these so called holidays are not really my fav days... I think having it during Valentine's Day would be a little clichéd and obvious IMO
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Post by bookworm on Feb 14, 2014 13:12:09 GMT -5
the timing of VinCat "reunion" sucks.... could've happened a little sooner, just in time for Valentine's Day imo. Well I guess it's too late for that but maybe next year??? Btw sorry for being grumpy today! these so called holidays are not really my fav days... I think having it during Valentine's Day would be a little clichéd and obvious IMO I agree LOL but i've been starving for a very very very long time! i wouldn't care at this point if it went down too cheesy I am really pathetic today, arent I?
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 14, 2014 13:21:54 GMT -5
I never said that Vincent didn't have feelings for Tori. They were pretty obvious. He pitied her and felt guilty because he killed her father and left her "alone" - since I don't know how a person can be alone and have so many contacts that allowed him to be in every newspaper in town and go to a TV show - in the world. But it's clear to me that his feelings didn't even touch the ones of a romantic relationship. Those pics of him sharing a intimate kiss with her only proves that he tried, but didn't manage to bring himself to care about her. Trying doesn't takes his guilt of misleading her, though. On the contrary, only makes him even more responsible for her end. He tried, it didn't work, he never made clear to her that it wasn't working until the final moment. That's why she couldn't accept being dumped. Their so called dates were only an ambush for their persecutors so how is that real? Tori's insecurity when referring to those same dates to Catherine only proves that she knew quite well the dates weren't real, their relationship wasn't real. Vincent didn't need to sneak out of the bed at night to talk to Catherine if he wasn't doing that to reconnect with her in the only way he could and that was through the gem and beasts mystery. If he wasn't trying to exclude Tori of his life, we would do that with her around. He wasn't trying to protect her from the danger because he knew she could handle herself in a fight. Proof of that was that he exposed her publically and he was using her in the ambush on boathouse. He never tried to use Cat when there was danger around, not even during his memory loss. The search for the gem was an excuse for that reconnection and Tori knew that. She always knew that she couldn't compete with Cat and that Vincent would eventually let her know she didn't have a place in his life, thus her being aggressive and spitful in all her interactions with her and Vincent's friends. I agree with you. Much is given for the audience to assume and it's not shown and that's what I referred when I talked about the writers inefficiency of bringing to the screen what they were supposed to. That's the big problem of this season and the reason why so many fans are insatisfied, me included. I don't disagree that Vincent is in the path of redemption, but I think this path isn't being handled well and it's giving me a sour taste in my mouth. Specially because I don't see any evolution on Vincent's character. He went from a kind soul to a heartless beast to a kind soul again without any change so it's not clear to me what improved on him. And I fear that his redemption will be closed in next episode with him saving someone and that's it. No apology, no talk coming from the heart and no real regret. It's not enough for me. My post was actually not a reply to your post. I posted after you without reading yours. So I really wasn't disagreeing/agreeing with what you were saying. I agree with much of what you said here. But, I actually think that Tori felt like Vincent and she were in every sense a couple. IMO, at the precinct, Tori kept "reminding" Cat that Vincent was indeed her Boyfriend. I think she truly believed it and that she shared something special with Vincent that Cat could never have with him. There was also in the Promo for Held Hostage that showed Vincent and Tori leaving the Precinct with their arms around each other. As well as Tori, being upset with Vincent in the Bar after tracking the guy who beat up JT. The promo also showed, I believe, an angry Tori walking away from Vincent in a alley. Now those 2 Promo scenes were cut out of the episodes but I think they show that Tori and Vincent were close physically and emotionally. It was also clear that Vincent was very much involved with finding out about the gem and how it relates to him. Tori didn't care, but he did. When Vincent found out about Cat's ancestor, it became her story too. So Vincent calling Cat about the gem makes sense. Having Vincent sneak out of bed to call Cat shows that Vincent knew Tori would be upset because indeed, they were in a relationship. If Vincent didn't care about Tori, then he wouldn't care if Tori knew or not he was seeing Catherine. But, because he knew Tori would be upset, he was vested in their relationship. Now, how deep were his actual feelings ..........well, as time went on he grew tired of Tori and wanted space...........there is an assumption it was because he still had feelings for Catherine. Or like he said, he didn't like how being with Tori messed with his mind and his feelings. But I agree, the writers were grossly inefficient in showing on the screen what is really going on.......I can assume some things but I want clarity and need an honest expression of feelings at least some pivotal moments. I don't want to question or leave things up to interpretation, ....the value of the meaning of the scene becomes so weak when they are not clear what the characters are actually feeling.
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Post by kiki09 on Feb 14, 2014 13:34:20 GMT -5
I think having it during Valentine's Day would be a little clichéd and obvious IMO I agree LOL but i've been starving for a very very very long time! i wouldn't care at this point if it went down too cheesy I am really pathetic today, arent I? Lolol! Not really! We all miss VinCat. I just want it to be right when they get together properly.
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