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Post by bbatb on Jul 21, 2016 1:59:51 GMT -5
Ok, so I know we've discussed this already, but I'm really struggling with Vincent killing that security guard. I get that he is driven and desperate right now, but Vincent used to save random strangers at the risk of getting exposed, because he just couldn't help himself! He had no idea that Cat was coming to the house, and he can't have known he'd have a chance to save the guard later. There are definitely tons of plot holes in this ep., which I mostly try to ignore, because I love seeing VibCat on my screen (loved how desperate V was to see C) and I'm willing to forgive quite a bit, but this is just so hugely against character it really bothers me Maybe he DID hear Catherine coming. She was gunning Sally and driving really fast and her approach was probably not a silent one breaking, turning off the motor, slamming the car door and running toward the entrance once she saw the open door. Vincent has super ears! And maybe he heard her heartbeat?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 2:30:24 GMT -5
Ok, so I know we've discussed this already, but I'm really struggling with Vincent killing that security guard. I get that he is driven and desperate right now, but Vincent used to save random strangers at the risk of getting exposed, because he just couldn't help himself! He had no idea that Cat was coming to the house, and he can't have known he'd have a chance to save the guard later. There are definitely tons of plot holes in this ep., which I mostly try to ignore, because I love seeing VibCat on my screen (loved how desperate V was to see C) and I'm willing to forgive quite a bit, but this is just so hugely against character it really bothers me This behavior had worried me since 407. It's not completely against character if compared to the Vincent at the start of S2. Maybe a part of his FBI brainwashing/Condor training is kicking back in for some reason? (I hope the writers have something clever planned, but again, I've set my expectation bar low. So we'll see...) Like Tess said (and she applies that very well), at a certain point they must set apart their natural pull to help other people and be a little more selfish: Vincent had to choose in a second if reveal himself and lost every possibility to understand who is behind the bounty hunter and why (and so save himself and his friends) or do what he was asked and go on with the plan. He could have made the guard unconscious and then beast out and kill the blond but this plan require a straight mind and Vincent is not thinking straight as he said. I think writers went down the plot that he without Cat is unable to do the right thing, he need her to preserve his human side... I'm not ok with this, bacause Vincent isn't a puppet in Cat's hands for me but we will see. I noticed Cat's surprise when he "kissed her boob"... IMO Jay watching her so worried that the blanked could go down, tried to slow down the blanked between the arm and the boob ... with teeth ... or at least I can see Jay doing this in my mind :-)
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Post by zelly309 on Jul 21, 2016 2:49:24 GMT -5
During the ending scene I've notice that KK flinched or a little bit surprised. Did she thought Jay kissed her boob. LOL.😉.. Yup, I caught that too. It might have been her arm that he was kissing, but the angle made it look like it was her boob. KK's reaction to me was kind of like "where is your mouth going Jay?". We need a zelly309 meme for that boob kiss! You want a meme??? Ooooooohhhh I've never done a meme by request ! How exciting! Ok, just for you my beastly speedster, I shall make a meme for this boob kiss! (We must be connected by brainwaves or something coz I had an almost identical thought as to kk's mind! ) okay, thanks Jewels for pointing out this request - I hadn't been on site all day due to RL interference. Grrrr. I shall return BeastieBoy with meme in hand. Mwah
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Post by missingalias on Jul 21, 2016 3:08:26 GMT -5
This behavior had worried me since 407. It's not completely against character if compared to the Vincent at the start of S2. Maybe a part of his FBI brainwashing/Condor training is kicking back in for some reason? (I hope the writers have something clever planned, but again, I've set my expectation bar low. So we'll see...) Like Tess said (and she applies that very well), at a certain point they must set apart their natural pull to help other people and be a little more selfish: Vincent had to choose in a second if reveal himself and lost every possibility to understand who is behind the bounty hunter and why (and so save himself and his friends) or do what he was asked and go on with the plan. He could have made the guard unconscious and then beast out and kill the blond but this plan require a straight mind and Vincent is not thinking straight as he said. I think writers went down the plot that he without Cat is unable to do the right thing, he need her to preserve his human side... I'm not ok with this, bacause Vincent isn't a puppet in Cat's hands for me but we will see. I noticed Cat's surprise when he "kissed her boob"... IMO Jay watching her so worried that the blanked could go down, tried to slow down the blanked between the arm and the boob ... with teeth ... or at least I can see Jay doing this in my mind :-) after rewatching that particular scene I think Jay actually kissed very close to her boob and most likely his beard touched KK's boobs a bit too low which made her worried that the blanket has fell of. I think you can see him moving his lips a bit to the left (her arm) only after KK's surprise. Might be that I'm imagining things but that's how it looked to me now.
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Post by bbatb on Jul 21, 2016 4:39:23 GMT -5
Okay, I have a question after re-watching it - AGAIN - this morning.
How did Diane get her handcuffed behind her back hands to the front within two seconds? We see her being walked away by agent Dylan with her hands cuffed behind her back, but then she pushes Dylan to the ground with a kick with her leg. So far so good. But one second later, Diane picks up Dylan's gun and threatens her with it and she holds the gun in her hands - still cuffed - but now in the front of her??? How did that happen? I have no means to slow-mo this scene, but maybe some clever person could and we can see how she managed that so quickly.
In 'Held Hostage' Catherine managed to get her hand-cuffed arms from the back to the front, but it took some time and a lot of contortions and wiggling. So, it is do-able, but not very quickly.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 21, 2016 6:23:44 GMT -5
Changing subject... i want to focus on JT. He is the most loyal friend someone could have. Vincent is in trouble so what else he has to do but save him? Yes JT maybe it is your gratest porpouse, helping people in your own way, make them safe. This time the show reminds me of "person of interest"... I think they used the same type of techical equipment. "What else I have to do? I'm a single unemployed person".. poor JT! JT to Cat "He bag me to make you meet him" ... yes JT you could save VinCat even from their own error. But Tess's date at the end is real or she manage to let JT know that she could possibly have a date to see if he would try to win her back? we see a bottle beer and a glass of beer but I haven't understand if was the same beer in the glass or Tess ordered two before the guy arrrive. Thinking about how much she was unhappy that JT just left the bar without fighting for her makes me suppose that was a fake dateA couple of things I felt were happening here. JT hears from Heather that Tess has a date, so he comes to the bar because he knows she's going to be there, to talk her out of it. It was sweet what he said, about them not being together any more but that he was not ready to let her go, he was close to finding out what he wanted to do. I think Tess had gone to meet the ADA and he had probably told her he was running a little late but was about to arrive any second, so Tess ordered him a drink. What I didn'y understand was JT's reaction to the beer. He KNEW Tess was there to meet someone, so why was he surprised when the beer arrived. Did he think Tess was there drinking alone? No I don't think so. Tess's reaction to him running out was because she cares about him and she realised that her dating was going to hurt him. It reminded me of the scene with Cat and Vincent on the boathouse when Cat came to tell Vincent she couldn't see him any more, even as friends, if she was to move on with her relationship with Gabe. She was worried about telling Vincent because she didn't want him to be hurt. She knew he still loved her. As it turned out, she really didn't want to have that conversation with Vincent for another reason too. SHE still loved HIM and her relationship with Gabe was always doomed to failure because of it. Maybe Tess's new relationship with the ADA is doomed for the same reason. She clearly still loves JT. Maybe the dating thing IS a move to prompt him to sort his life out. JT is a great friend to Vincent but maybe he's throwing himself into trying to help Vincent and Cat to this extreme degree to try to put off dealing with his own issues.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 21, 2016 6:32:04 GMT -5
So my curiosity got the better of me and I popped in here to see if this episode is a and ........and it was "racy" like Hitower stated? I am gathering from a scan of all of your comments that it was kinda .............. I really wasn't expecting a scene like AMP but I thought there would be at least one more scene with some of the passion or sexiness of Vincent and "Gabrielle" (I think that was her name) or instead of Catherine yapping about this or that, she would have a scene where she would have on a little nightie (like with Gabe) and try some seductive moves on Vincent. That's all. I don't need a whole strip down, but for Pete's sake, ........Catherine should have been a little more "aggressive" with her Beast. I guess the "absence" of the mind-numbing 'Flannel Shirt' is something we should be thankful for, but come on..........3 years of a relationship and all we get some pecks and cuddling from one of greatest love stories ever developed and all the passion is in 1 maybe 2 episodes? ? I have't seen the episode but if that is it, well they have lead us on. I guess that is why we haven't really heard from Jay or Kristin about the show this season. It really is odd and a disappointment how disconnected the two LEADS of BATB have been and essentially closed the door. Austin should be commended for his continuous engagement with the fans all these years. Still,........I just find it weird and suspicious why Kristin and Jay didn't at least give one last interview about this season. Did I miss something? I haven't followed as closely this season. Oh well, I hope the rest of the season has some good drama because the "romance boat" has sailed away for me. I actually really enjoyed "that scene" quite a bit. I've re-watched that scene several times and still enjoy it. Yes it could have and been better, but I'm still happy we got what we got. Having said that, I think the problem for most was HiTower's tweets. It set expectations a certain way, with words like "racy" and "pushing the limits of network tv" and "VinCat in bed a lot". I continue to set my expectation bar low and told myself ahead of time not to expect the kind of scene Hitower hinted at. We've been burned too many times in the past by misleading tweets from the crew, so I no longer believe them. I think that's also what helped me to enjoy it more, instead of feeling totally disappointed with it. Yet another reason why I'm trying to stay completely spoiler free throughout the season. Regarding KK and J, I feel the same way. They've totally disengaged from the show. I wonder why? Don't want to moan or be a killjoy, but can we leave this discussion to another thread. It's supposed to be a thread to discuss the episode that's already been watched by Canadian viewers and those, like me, who can't wait and have watched it online. This is the last season and I really want to enjoy it. We all have our opinions and all opinions are valid but I for one, don't feel that the romance has gone. I am definitely feeling the romance in season 4 and I hope you will change your mind, Season 4 Suzie, when you see the episode for yourself on Thursday. On your other points, BeastieBoy, about expectations, I completely agree. I loved the scene too. It was cute and more than a little sexy. I think Hittower's comments were more about what the scene implied was going on under the sheets at the end. Since some things SHOULD be left to the imagination, (it's not soft porn, after all) I was happy to let my own brain take me there. I didn't really need to see it to know what was going on. I actually really liked the whole episode, I was dreading the 'other woman' scenario but in the end, it just highlighted the love Vincent has for Cat. The fact Diane needed to 'test' Vincent's loyalty to Graydal, stemmed from the fact that he 'kissed like a married man' who was obviously still very much in love with his wife.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 21, 2016 6:48:26 GMT -5
During the ending scene I've notice that KK flinched or a little bit surprised. Did she thought Jay kissed her boob. LOL.😉.. I think he did, accidentally, but like the true pros they are, they just carried on with the scene.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 21, 2016 7:15:48 GMT -5
Ok, so I know we've discussed this already, but I'm really struggling with Vincent killing that security guard. I get that he is driven and desperate right now, but Vincent used to save random strangers at the risk of getting exposed, because he just couldn't help himself! He had no idea that Cat was coming to the house, and he can't have known he'd have a chance to save the guard later. There are definitely tons of plot holes in this ep., which I mostly try to ignore, because I love seeing VibCat on my screen (loved how desperate V was to see C) and I'm willing to forgive quite a bit, but this is just so hugely against character it really bothers me I agree that this was very un-Vincent like so I think Vincent would only have done this if he felt he had no choice. I think that part of this episode was to show that, without Cat, Vincent doesn't always make good decisions. Handing over Nathanson to NYPD was a bad plan as Nathanson refused to talk, was probably finger-printed and due to his connection to Greydal, DHS probably flexed their muscles and took over. Vincent was very flustered when he was talking to Cat behind the curtain at the party and admitted his plan might have been a bad one but that they really didn't have another plan. Diane was not that badd-ass at arm-to-arm combat. As Vincent admitted, she 'met her match' when she met Cat, but she WAS very calculating and cold-blooded. If she pointed a gun at you and told you she would kill you it's clear that she would do it and not miss any sleep over it. I think Vincent made a snap decision - if he didn't kill the guard, he didn't risk exposure, he risked death and the security guard would certainly have been next. As an ER doctor, he would have a better chance than most at bringing the guy back from the brink. He tried to appear cold and calculating to Diane as he cut off the guard's windpipe but was very agitated afterwards and was desparately looking for a way to distract her so that he could revive the guard. Cat being in the apartment gave him an excuse to send Diane away, otherwise, I think he would have taken the guard outside, on the premise of disposing of the body and revived him there. I'm sure that if no other plan surfaced he would have tried to dis-arm Diane and knock her out or risk beast exposure rather than let the guard die. Diane was suspicious of Vincent's reasons for wanting to join Graydal so I don't think she was stupid. I think that if she had lived, she would have figured out Vincent's secret.
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Post by bbatb on Jul 21, 2016 8:56:21 GMT -5
Okay, I have a question after re-watching it - AGAIN - this morning. How did Diane get her handcuffed behind her back hands to the front within two seconds? We see her being walked away by agent Dylan with her hands cuffed behind her back, but then she pushes Dylan to the ground with a kick with her leg. So far so good. But one second later, Diane picks up Dylan's gun and threatens her with it and she holds the gun in her hands - still cuffed - but now in the front of her??? How did that happen? I have no means to slow-mo this scene, but maybe some clever person could and we can see how she managed that so quickly. In 'Held Hostage' Catherine managed to get her hand-cuffed arms from the back to the front, but it took some time and a lot of contortions and wiggling. So, it is do-able, but not very quickly. A friend of mine made a slow-mo of this scene and I must say it was cleverly done: they cheated, of course, but I guess there was no other way to make this work. And it worked just fine, because it took a few times of watching before I even noticed the little discrepancy. LOL. This is how they did it: we see Diane with her hands cuffed behind her back, then the camera swings to agent Dylan as she is being kicked by Diane's leg coming up. Then the camera swings back to Diane and all of sudden she has her hands raised really high above her head - again in handcuffs - and then she brings them down. So, there is cut in there where they switched the handcuffs from the back to the front. The whole scene is speeded up so it is impossible for the normal eyes to see all this.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 21, 2016 10:42:45 GMT -5
I actually really enjoyed "that scene" quite a bit. I've re-watched that scene several times and still enjoy it. Yes it could have and been better, but I'm still happy we got what we got. Having said that, I think the problem for most was HiTower's tweets. It set expectations a certain way, with words like "racy" and "pushing the limits of network tv" and "VinCat in bed a lot". I continue to set my expectation bar low and told myself ahead of time not to expect the kind of scene Hitower hinted at. We've been burned too many times in the past by misleading tweets from the crew, so I no longer believe them. I think that's also what helped me to enjoy it more, instead of feeling totally disappointed with it. Yet another reason why I'm trying to stay completely spoiler free throughout the season. Regarding KK and J, I feel the same way. They've totally disengaged from the show. I wonder why? Don't want to moan or be a killjoy, but can we leave this discussion to another thread. It's supposed to be a thread to discuss the episode that's already been watched by Canadian viewers and those, like me, who can't wait and have watched it online. This is the last season and I really want to enjoy it. We all have our opinions and all opinions are valid but I for one, don't feel that the romance has gone. I am definitely feeling the romance in season 4 and I hope you will change your mind, Season 4 Suzie, when you see the episode for yourself on Thursday. Point taken on this issue. I do, however, think we are being shortchanged on the relationship and the lack of passion. Romance and cute scenarios are great but it is unrealistic to show all "cutsie" when you have dramatic, life-risking story lines and not show intense "reunions" between Vincent and Catherine. At any point either one could die and just the fact that they survived would make them cherish their reunions more and hence, more passion. At least in my opinion that would be a great set up for that type of scene at least once this season. I am enjoying many aspects of this season. Just because I am behind on seeing the episode until the US airing doesn't mean I can't have an "anticipated" view of it. So I go in hoping I will "LOVE IT" but so far this season, I am only at the "Very enjoyable" stage. I think too, that the involvement of the actors on Social Media would really ENGAGE the BATB faithful, don't you think? And their silence is surprising. Their view on the episode or any tidbits was what I initially loved about the beginning of the show. But, again, maybe I will rant in another thread. Hope I enjoy the episode........Happy viewing to all!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 21, 2016 11:35:57 GMT -5
Like Tess said (and she applies that very well), at a certain point they must set apart their natural pull to help other people and be a little more selfish: Vincent had to choose in a second if reveal himself and lost every possibility to understand who is behind the bounty hunter and why (and so save himself and his friends) or do what he was asked and go on with the plan. He could have made the guard unconscious and then beast out and kill the blond but this plan require a straight mind and Vincent is not thinking straight as he said. I think writers went down the plot that he without Cat is unable to do the right thing, he need her to preserve his human side... I'm not ok with this, bacause Vincent isn't a puppet in Cat's hands for me but we will see. I noticed Cat's surprise when he "kissed her boob"... IMO Jay watching her so worried that the blanked could go down, tried to slow down the blanked between the arm and the boob ... with teeth ... or at least I can see Jay doing this in my mind :-) after rewatching that particular scene I think Jay actually kissed very close to her boob and most likely his beard touched KK's boobs a bit too low which made her worried that the blanket has fell of. I think you can see him moving his lips a bit to the left (her arm) only after KK's surprise. Might be that I'm imagining things but that's how it looked to me now. Ha, that's our Jay, you know he's a naughty one! LOL.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 21, 2016 12:02:25 GMT -5
Yup, I caught that too. It might have been her arm that he was kissing, but the angle made it look like it was her boob. KK's reaction to me was kind of like "where is your mouth going Jay?". We need a zelly309 meme for that boob kiss! You want a meme??? Ooooooohhhh I've never done a meme by request ! How exciting! Ok, just for you my beastly speedster, I shall make a meme for this boob kiss! (We must be connected by brainwaves or something coz I had an almost identical thought as to kk's mind! ) okay, thanks Jewels for pointing out this request - I hadn't been on site all day due to RL interference. Grrrr. I shall return BeastieBoy with meme in hand. Mwah Yes meme please, thanks. He, he, can't wait to see you work!
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Post by zelly309 on Jul 21, 2016 12:33:06 GMT -5
You want a meme??? Ooooooohhhh I've never done a meme by request ! How exciting! Ok, just for you my beastly speedster, I shall make a meme for this boob kiss! (We must be connected by brainwaves or something coz I had an almost identical thought as to kk's mind! ) okay, thanks Jewels for pointing out this request - I hadn't been on site all day due to RL interference. Grrrr. I shall return BeastieBoy with meme in hand. Mwah Yes meme please, thanks. He, he, can't wait to see you work! Ta da !!! Psssstt. Check your Twitter too.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 21, 2016 12:56:24 GMT -5
Yes meme please, thanks. He, he, can't wait to see you work! Ta da !!! Psssstt. Check your Twitter too. LOVE IT!!! Too funny!!!!
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