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Post by hcastro on Jan 29, 2013 23:40:42 GMT -5
I also think that in the process of making Vincent a JERK he did have some truth to what he was saying...Catherine closes herself to emotions..These feelings for Vincent are strong and she knows it..So she fears getting those emotions getting in her way. I think she PUSHED him away 1. Cause of the feelings she thinks Vince might have towards Alex but 2. and most importantly cause she is afraid of HER OWN FEELINGS towards him! I think the shrink will make her realize that what she is protecting is HERSELF from being hurt. Just my two cents cause this scene is all about JERK Vincent ..I'm not saying he's not just saying Catherine herself has issues. LOL First, SuzieQ...A+ post and I totally agree (like always ). Yolyco, I don't think anyone would deny that Vincent was correct in calling out Catherine on her faults as well. We know she puts up walls and has a hard time getting close, I'm actually happy that Vincent called her out on that and that Catherine agreed. Glad that was out in the open. My problem with that conversation is exactly what SuzieQ articulated wonderfully. Not only did Vincent lie to Catherine and call her his "handler", he never apologized for it! I was at least expecting him to apologize for not being completely honest with her about the Ex. In fact, Catherine was the one to bring up the Ex when they had that convo. Catherine just witnessed them kissing and Vincent didn't even acknowledge that...did he think Catherine was just going to sweep that under the rug and forget about it? And it wasn't the kiss per-say either, it's the fact that Catherine saw herself that Vincent may have some feeling for his Ex still. To call her out on her faults and put some blame on her on the progression of their relationship when he didn't apologize or acknowledge the mistakes he himself made in this episode was bothersome to me. Vincent has time to redeem himself, I don't think we'll see it in this next episode as he's out there having a playdate with Alex. We will see if he starts to come to his senses by the end of the episode and realize he may be losing Catherine for good after she has that confrontation with him. I'm ready to see a strong Catherine and I hope she gives him a piece of her mind in this next eppy!!
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Post by Reyna on Jan 29, 2013 23:51:24 GMT -5
First, SuzieQ...A+ post and I totally agree (like always ). Yolyco, I don't think anyone would deny that Vincent was correct in calling out Catherine on her faults as well. We know she puts up walls and has a hard time getting close, I'm actually happy that Vincent called her out on that and that Catherine agreed. Glad that was out in the open. My problem with that conversation is exactly what SuzieQ articulated wonderfully. Not only did Vincent lie to Catherine and call her his "handler", he never apologized for it! I was at least expecting him to apologize for not being completely honest with her about the Ex. In fact, Catherine was the one to bring up the Ex when they had that convo. Catherine just witnessed them kissing and Vincent didn't even acknowledge that...did he think Catherine was just going to sweep that under the rug and forget about it? And it wasn't the kiss per-say either, it's the fact that Catherine saw herself that Vincent may have some feeling for his Ex still. To call her out on her faults and put some blame on her on the progression of their relationship when he didn't apologize or acknowledge the mistakes he himself made in this episode was bothersome to me. Vincent has time to redeem himself, I don't think we'll see it in this next episode as he's out there having a playdate with Alex. We will see if he starts to come to his senses by the end of the episode and realize he may be losing Catherine for good after she has that confrontation with him. I'm ready to see a strong Catherine and I hope she gives him a piece of her mind in this next eppy!! Precisely Hcastro and well said. In the next episode, we are going see a range of emotions from Cat, which KK as we all know can play very well. Definitely expecting her to breakdown and cry from Vincent hurting her, yet in the end, she will pick herself right back up and will be strong.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jan 29, 2013 23:53:56 GMT -5
I also think that in the process of making Vincent a JERK he did have some truth to what he was saying...Catherine closes herself to emotions..These feelings for Vincent are strong and she knows it..So she fears getting those emotions getting in her way. I think she PUSHED him away 1. Cause of the feelings she thinks Vince might have towards Alex but 2. and most importantly cause she is afraid of HER OWN FEELINGS towards him! I think the shrink will make her realize that what she is protecting is HERSELF from being hurt. Just my two cents cause this scene is all about JERK Vincent ..I'm not saying he's not just saying Catherine herself has issues. LOL First, SuzieQ...A+ post and I totally agree (like always ). Yolyco, I don't think anyone would deny that Vincent was correct in calling out Catherine on her faults as well. We know she puts up walls and has a hard time getting close, I'm actually happy that Vincent called her out on that and that Catherine agreed. Glad that was out in the open. My problem with that conversation is exactly what SuzieQ articulated wonderfully. Not only did Vincent lie to Catherine and call her his "handler", he never apologized for it! I was at least expecting him to apologize for not being completely honest with her about the Ex. In fact, Catherine was the one to bring up the Ex when they had that convo. Catherine just witnessed them kissing and Vincent didn't even acknowledge that...did he think Catherine was just going to sweep that under the rug and forget about it? And it wasn't the kiss per-say either, it's the fact that Catherine saw herself that Vincent may have some feeling for his Ex still. To call her out on her faults and put some blame on her on the progression of their relationship when he didn't apologize or acknowledge the mistakes he himself made in this episode was bothersome to me. Vincent has time to redeem himself, I don't think we'll see it in this next episode as he's out there having a playdate with Alex. We will see if he starts to come to his senses by the end of the episode and realize he may be losing Catherine for good after she has that confrontation with him. I'm ready to see a strong Catherine and I hope she gives him a piece of her mind in this next eppy!! Believe me..LIES are a killer in a relationship..If you can't start off being honest with someone..how far can you go?? Although I believe as I said in previous posts that MAYBE the reason why he LIED to ALex about Catherine being his "Handler" was cause he thought he would never see Alex again..She questioned him in the car.."Will I ever see you again"..the look Vincent gave her was Um no..IMO...so how did he know he would have to see her again and how did he know Catherine would find out about the "Handler" and of course of the engagement if he didn't intend to ever see her again? I'm not at all condoning the fact he lied..I'm guessing he thought he would never have to tell Catherine about it. Now the woman he loves is pissed and the one who he used to love will be pissed when she finds out she's no longer the HOLDER of his HEART LOL
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jan 29, 2013 23:54:11 GMT -5
Not only did Vincent lie to Catherine and call her his "handler", he never apologized for it! I was at least expecting him to apologize for not being completely honest with her about the Ex. In fact, Catherine was the one to bring up the Ex when they had that convo. Catherine just witnessed them kissing and Vincent didn't even acknowledge that...did he think Catherine was just going to sweep that under the rug and forget about it? And it wasn't the kiss per-say either, it's the fact that Catherine saw herself that Vincent may have some feeling for his Ex still. To call her out on her faults and put some blame on her on the progression of their relationship when he didn't apologize or acknowledge the mistakes he himself made in this episode was bothersome to me. Exactly!! He had a couple of opportunities to explain things and at the very least, acknowledge his mistakes. Instead, we saw him act guilty and tried to brush off Catherine. I agree, Catherine has her faults, but I am not sure that was the best time to have that conversation. I still love the scene, it was real and raw emotion came out. Yes, Yes! I want to see Catherine fired up.........seeing the gun practice was evident that she is letting out some frustration. She knows and acknowledges her faults,......I love that......she knows her strong points too. I hope they show her character become more confident in her personal life. This next episode may be tough to get through..........we will all need our methods of comfort to tolerate it. Here's hoping we see the VinCat light at the end of the tunnel in this episode.
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Post by hcastro on Jan 30, 2013 0:19:59 GMT -5
Yep, the timing certainly could of been better. After all, Catherine probably was going through one of the worst days of her life! More compassion for what Catherine was going through that day would've been nice to have been acknowledged by Vincent. She was still hurting from that gunshot wound and running around trying to save Alex's life. Then the devastation of learning about Vincent/Ex. Poor Catherine. But like you said, the guilt on Vincent's face was apparent. Perhaps he was feeling so guilty but instead of owning up to his mistakes, he put the onus on Catherine and her faults to avoid having to confront his lingering feelings and confusion about Alex which of course Catherine wasn't going to let slide.
I also want to see a more confident Catherine as well. That's why I'm really looking forward to that conversation she has with Vincent where she seemingly decides to cut all ties with him (for now). The rest of the episode will be hard to go through, I agree. So that conversation is hopefully the beginning of our light at the end of the tunnel. The realization that he may lose Catherine forever is what I hope gets Vincent back to her...hopefully by the end of the episode which would make "romantic getaway" nothing more than a ruse.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jan 30, 2013 0:48:20 GMT -5
Yep, the timing certainly could of been better. After all, Catherine probably was going through one of the worst days of her life! More compassion for what Catherine was going through that day would've been nice to have been acknowledged by Vincent. She was still hurting from that gunshot wound and running around trying to save Alex's life. Then the devastation of learning about Vincent/Ex. Poor Catherine. But like you said, the guilt on Vincent's face was apparent. Perhaps he was feeling so guilty but instead of owning up to his mistakes, he put the onus on Catherine and her faults to avoid having to confront his lingering feelings and confusion about Alex which of course Catherine wasn't going to let slide. I also want to see a more confident Catherine as well. That's why I'm really looking forward to that conversation she has with Vincent where she seemingly decides to cut all ties with him (for now). The rest of the episode will be hard to go through, I agree. So that conversation is hopefully the beginning of our light at the end of the tunnel. The realization that he may lose Catherine forever is what I hope gets Vincent back to her...hopefully by the end of the episode which would make "romantic getaway" nothing more than a ruse. Jay spoke of the FAMOUS romantic getaway in an interview..Here's a little insight into the famous getaway! "Ryan: He thinks he could possibly live a normal life without telling her. They end up going on a "romantic weekend" because Catherine pushes Vincent to tell Alex the truth, but for Alex, she thinks they'll consummate the relationship again and go full throttle, but for Vincent it's the moment he'll release his secret."So it wasn't a romantic thing for Vincent really..and Catherine forces him to go and tell her the truth. So there isn't much romance at least for Vincent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 12:00:31 GMT -5
This makes me very happy to hear.
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Post by oa on Jan 30, 2013 18:35:05 GMT -5
that makes a hell of a lot more sense to me right now!
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Post by ArwenFan on Feb 27, 2013 17:55:42 GMT -5
Hello. I'm new to the forum so I've missed out on all the earlier conversations, but I'm re-watching some key episodes, so I'm moved to add my two cents.
First observation...have you noticed how all the EPIC couples NEVER use nicknames for each other? In Merlin, you can count the number of times Arthur called Guinevere"Gwen" on 1 hand in 5 seasons. I love how Vincent never calls Catherine "Cat" nor does she call him "Vinnie" or "Vince." 'Kay, I just had to get that off my chest. LOL
On to "Seeing Red" comments. I didn't think much about Alex's behavior towards Vincent the first time I saw this episode, but now, I have plenty to say. What kind of psycho chick is Alex to begin with? Who can't get over a man believed to be dead for TEN--count 'em--TEN years!?! Seriously, this is pathetic loser behavior. Once upon a time I may have thought this reaction the height of romanticism...you know, a love so grand that the left behind partner chooses spinster/bachelor-hood over sucking it up and getting a life. But that was then and this is now. Now, I think that's just plain crazy, not to mention a waste.
I think Alex saw Catherine as competition for Vincent's affections right off the bat. First, Catherine gets a dreamy expression when Alex tells her about the roadside surgery. Alex figures out pretty fast that her ex-fiance had visited her new patient's room, but when she asked Catherine about the "tall doctor with the scar," Catherine feigned total ignorance. When Vincent does show up, Alex wants to know right away who else knows about his secret life and what Catherine means to him. Remember, Alex has known Vincent for a very long time, she knows the kind of guy he is at his core. She remembered how he was with her and probably had a strong suspicion that he had an emotional attachment to Catherine.
Although they had never talked about their status, I believe Catherine and Vincent had begun thinking of themselves as a couple after "Worth" and were moving toward a declaration when Alex appeared. Catherine's spider sense started tingling when Alex reacted so strongly to Vincent's reappearance, and I practically saw the walls going up when Alex referred to her as Vincent's handler and after discovering the true nature of Vincent and Alex's past relationship. When Vincent showed up, Catherine was PO'd and rightfully so. She wasn't in the relationship with Vincent by herself; he had been fully engaged and more than willing. But now she was his "handler?" She had to be wondering WTF?
Back to Alex. Yes, she was pathetic and needy and didn't miss an opportunity to try and pick up where they'd left off with Vincent, like TEN years hadn't happened, but she was also determined to run off the competition. I think she intentionally mentioned the break-in to Catherine so that she could look through Alex's closet and see her box of TEN-year-old love letters and pictures. That was intended to let Catherine know that she had prior (and stronger) claim to Vincent no matter what. Then there's her later declaration that she was in love with someone else while making googly eyes at Vincent in Catherine's presence. I did notice that Vincent was uncomfortable and tried to change the direction of the conversation as best he could, but it was too little to late. Catherine had gotten the message.
I'm not sure why Vincent went with the "handler" story to explain his relationship with Catherine to Alex, but we KNOW he's not quick on his feet when he's caught off guard. I do believe that Vincent felt guilty about the abrupt end of their relationship. Also, Vincent is basically a decent, loyal and caring man. Someone who knew him well (Alex), would be aware of that and play on that while trying to wheedle her way back into his life. I don't think Vincent really knew how to deal with the current situation--men rarely know how to deal with romantic confrontations. LOL
He was in love with Catherine, but I think he felt some obligation and/or responsibility for Alex. I think it was a calculated move on Alex's part to kiss Vincent after the rescue. There was really no reason for that--it's not like they'd only been separated for a day or even a month. It has been TEN years. What made Alex think that (just because she was a loser and was still in love with Vincent) that he was still in love with her? Vincent hugged Alex because he was relieved that she hadn't been hurt, but that didn't mean he wanted her to lay one on him.
Unlike others, I don't think Vincent was trying to blame Catherine for their situation at the end of the episode. I think he really felt the way he said. He had expressed his desire to escort Catherine to her father's wedding repeatedly and, once there, Vincent seemed quite content to be introduced to her friends and family and stand by her side all night. I can understand how her reasons to keep him away--no matter how well intentioned--might seem like attempts to keep him at arm's length to Vincent. That said, I think Catherine was reasonable to suggest that Vincent sort through his feelings before moving on.
Love J.T. I didn't initially, but now he's one of my favorites. Evan is a quick study and always knows more than he lets on. He is a bit of a schemer, I think and I'm not sure what his motivation is for pursuing "the creature." I think his affection for Catherine is just part of his motivation (I'm not even sure his crush on Catherine is on the up-and-up either). I really liked this episode. It was character driven and had a lot of depth.
Sorry this is so long. TTFN
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Post by curly on Feb 28, 2013 21:15:55 GMT -5
Why am I sitting through this episode again. It's like torture after everything we have seen so far. Ugh!!!Am I allowed to shut it off yet. I did however realized something I really liked Alex the moment we first met her and then again the moment she left. She was actually really nice. lol
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Post by summer on Feb 28, 2013 21:28:10 GMT -5
haha curly!!! ... here I am watching this as well ... anything to save this show ... I actually am muting a bit and listening to some of the batb music ... works well.
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Post by gena7373 on Feb 28, 2013 21:38:17 GMT -5
Hello. I'm new to the forum so I've missed out on all the earlier conversations, but I'm re-watching some key episodes, so I'm moved to add my two cents. First observation...have you noticed how all the EPIC couples NEVER use nicknames for each other? In Merlin, you can count the number of times Arthur called Guinevere"Gwen" on 1 hand in 5 seasons. I love how Vincent never calls Catherine "Cat" nor does she call him "Vinnie" or "Vince." 'Kay, I just had to get that off my chest. LOL On to "Seeing Red" comments. I didn't think much about Alex's behavior towards Vincent the first time I saw this episode, but now, I have plenty to say. What kind of psycho chick is Alex to begin with? Who can't get over a man believed to be dead for TEN--count 'em--TEN years!?! Seriously, this is pathetic loser behavior. Once upon a time I may have thought this reaction the height of romanticism...you know, a love so grand that the left behind partner chooses spinster/bachelor-hood over sucking it up and getting a life. But that was then and this is now. Now, I think that's just plain crazy, not to mention a waste. I think Alex saw Catherine as competition for Vincent's affections right off the bat. First, Catherine gets a dreamy expression when Alex tells her about the roadside surgery. Alex figures out pretty fast that her ex-fiance had visited her new patient's room, but when she asked Catherine about the "tall doctor with the scar," Catherine feigned total ignorance. When Vincent does show up, Alex wants to know right away who else knows about his secret life and what Catherine means to him. Remember, Alex has known Vincent for a very long time, she knows the kind of guy he is at his core. She remembered how he was with her and probably had a strong suspicion that he had an emotional attachment to Catherine. Although they had never talked about their status, I believe Catherine and Vincent had begun thinking of themselves as a couple after "Worth" and were moving toward a declaration when Alex appeared. Catherine's spider sense started tingling when Alex reacted so strongly to Vincent's reappearance, and I practically saw the walls going up when Alex referred to her as Vincent's handler and after discovering the true nature of Vincent and Alex's past relationship. When Vincent showed up, Catherine was PO'd and rightfully so. She wasn't in the relationship with Vincent by herself; he had been fully engaged and more than willing. But now she was his "handler?" She had to be wondering WTF? Back to Alex. Yes, she was pathetic and needy and didn't miss an opportunity to try and pick up where they'd left off with Vincent, like TEN years hadn't happened, but she was also determined to run off the competition. I think she intentionally mentioned the break-in to Catherine so that she could look through Alex's closet and see her box of TEN-year-old love letters and pictures. That was intended to let Catherine know that she had prior (and stronger) claim to Vincent no matter what. Then there's her later declaration that she was in love with someone else while making googly eyes at Vincent in Catherine's presence. I did notice that Vincent was uncomfortable and tried to change the direction of the conversation as best he could, but it was too little to late. Catherine had gotten the message. I'm not sure why Vincent went with the "handler" story to explain his relationship with Catherine to Alex, but we KNOW he's not quick on his feet when he's caught off guard. I do believe that Vincent felt guilty about the abrupt end of their relationship. Also, Vincent is basically a decent, loyal and caring man. Someone who knew him well (Alex), would be aware of that and play on that while trying to wheedle her way back into his life. I don't think Vincent really knew how to deal with the current situation--men rarely know how to deal with romantic confrontations. LOL He was in love with Catherine, but I think he felt some obligation and/or responsibility for Alex. I think it was a calculated move on Alex's part to kiss Vincent after the rescue. There was really no reason for that--it's not like they'd only been separated for a day or even a month. It has been TEN years. What made Alex think that (just because she was a loser and was still in love with Vincent) that he was still in love with her? Vincent hugged Alex because he was relieved that she hadn't been hurt, but that didn't mean he wanted her to lay one on him. Unlike others, I don't think Vincent was trying to blame Catherine for their situation at the end of the episode. I think he really felt the way he said. He had expressed his desire to escort Catherine to her father's wedding repeatedly and, once there, Vincent seemed quite content to be introduced to her friends and family and stand by her side all night. I can understand how her reasons to keep him away--no matter how well intentioned--might seem like attempts to keep him at arm's length to Vincent. That said, I think Catherine was reasonable to suggest that Vincent sort through his feelings before moving on. Love J.T. I didn't initially, but now he's one of my favorites. Evan is a quick study and always knows more than he lets on. He is a bit of a schemer, I think and I'm not sure what his motivation is for pursuing "the creature." I think his affection for Catherine is just part of his motivation (I'm not even sure his crush on Catherine is on the up-and-up either). I really liked this episode. It was character driven and had a lot of depth. Sorry this is so long. TTFN I agree 100%. I think he more wanted to close that chapter for her not himself. He had been over it but felt bad she was hanging on. I too saw he was uncomfortable many times with her, many! And at the end I felt he was being real too. Plus he had to go see her, once she recognized him she would have started snooping, googling his name etc and would have drawn muirfield in, so he had too after that it was guilt and trying to make his leaving her right.
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Post by curly on Feb 28, 2013 21:41:05 GMT -5
Summer I am actually watching the writers twitter feed while the show plays in the backround.lol It is more interesting and can I say that I still get annoyed at that Chandler the Handler stuff.lol
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Post by summer on Feb 28, 2013 21:56:12 GMT -5
Nope ... Alex is just plain annoying ... if they bring her back, they should write her a personality.
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Post by hcastro on Mar 1, 2013 1:27:20 GMT -5
Haven't changed my mind on what an awful episode this was. I had this running on MUTE while I did my laundry and did some net surfing, lol. Curious to see what the ratings are for this episode...I truly couldn't sit and watch this again and I doubt I ever will except for the VinCat scenes of course!
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