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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 19, 2015 0:26:08 GMT -5
FINALLY GOT TO SEE THIS EPISODE!!!!! And I have GOT to say 1 thing: what the FREAK is wrong with my fellow Beasties? For ME, this episode was WONDERFUL in EVERY WAY. I loved EVERY character and every interaction. Every. Single. One. And the FLOW of the episode finally worked for me, as well as the division between PLOT and individual character development. not sure what is wrong with me - do you think I should visit a consultant? any recommendations? lol
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 19, 2015 0:35:49 GMT -5
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Post by tonysol on Jun 19, 2015 2:41:28 GMT -5
FINALLY GOT TO SEE THIS EPISODE!!!!! And I have GOT to say 1 thing: what the FREAK is wrong with my fellow Beasties? For ME, this episode was WONDERFUL in EVERY WAY. I loved EVERY character and every interaction. Every. Single. One. And the FLOW of the episode finally worked for me, as well as the division between PLOT and individual character development. ----My Review---- COUPLE Interaction: This was ENTIRELY consistent with VinCat. Quite frankly, Cat has always gone on and on about the romance of having the forbidden love, the hiding, the falling in love. At the beginning of Season 2, she even tried to put a positive spin on Vincent's amnesia by saying that they would get to do all of their "firsts" again--like kiss, date, etc. Which all made it PAINFULLY real how she has NEVER made it THIS FAR in a relationship before. After all the drama, Cat has no idea how to JUST BE STILL and live normally! "Normal is HARD." -- Cat has had to fend for herself for so very, very long. And go from drama to trauma, over and over again. And usually find that the people she was leaning on, if she was leaning on anyone at all, were not up to the challenge. And other than JT, Vincent literally had NO LIFE outside of a warehouse. Meaning NO interaction with the regular world. So no struggle with figuring out how to balance personal life from professional life. He just had JT and video games! Cat is territorial of her stuff. Her apartment has been her own private batcave for so long. SHE HAS ORDER in her place. (REMEMBER Cat in Season 1 --in "Worth" when she thought that Vincent was blowing her off, SHE FILED at the precinct--THAT was how Tess knew something was wrong. So Cat has to SPECIFICALLY put ORDER to EVERY LITTLE object in order to feel in CONTROL.) Now, our dear little miss obsessive control freak must cede partial control over her life, her apartment, her worries, etc. And as the episode progresses, Cat talks Vincent AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HERSELF through this all-important lesson. "Your problems are my problems." She GETS THAT and says that to Vincent while working the case. So Cat gets the concept ONLY as a result of having to process THROUGH A CASE. Cat will do what is necessary to solve a case. IT IS A ROUTINE she knows. SHE IS USED TO A PARTNER ON A CASE and to making use of the resources at hand. So working through her case makes her work through the issue with Vincent as well. You have to COMMUNICATE in a case--the other person HAS to have ALL of the information, know your whereabouts, and divvy out the tasks between the two to get the case solved. And in building a case, you have to understand the MOTIVES behind it. And NOTICE that THAT IS THE REASON that TESS knows Cat best AND knows EXACTLY where Cat's problems with Vincent truly lie. She points it out to Cat in the scene on the way to break into the agent's office. Cat is going to do EXACTLY what Cat wants to do and drag her partner along for the ride. So Cat thinks SHE must direct the relationship boat. But as the episode and case progresses, Cat learns to share the load as well as figure out the solutions WITH her team. And Tess is CONFIDENT in the following: that she KNOWS her partner and best friend AND that she has faith and a comfort level with her lover. Tess has clearly been bullied by her brothers her whole life--they have banded together and treat her with contempt. Unfortunately, that is WHY Tess so lacks self-confidence when it counts. BUT JT BELIEVES in her, and she believes in him. BOTH of them have a COMFORT LEVEL and TRUST in one another and what they can do. I LOVED their interactions throughout this episode. AND THAT IS WHY Tess and JT can give such GREAT advice to their best friends--for once, they are comfortable in their own homes and space with their loved ones. So they can use their energies to help their friends with their problems. I LOVED THIS. In Season 2, Tess was whiney herself due to having lost her own relationship, particularly in the WAY she lost it--Joe's obsession over the vigilante, which messed with her CAREER as well. So Tess was MISERABLE and determined to keep Cat away from a man on obsessive missions that dragged everyone down with him. NOW, in SEASON 3, we get to see how DOMESTIC comfort leads to COMFORT in the professional field AS WELL--Tess ACTUALLY finally feels the confidence to pursue the CAPTAIN's position. All because JT had her back and reminded her of her OWN abilities, something her BROTHERS never did. Her brothers only ever tore her down, ESPECIALLY in any field where they were competitive. And she LIKES that JT is nerdy--and is able to show her own nerdy self without recrimination---hence, she can where her periodic table shirt! JT ---Okay, I LOVE where this is going. So FRINGE and every other GOOD sci-fi show that I have loved! There is the mystery there. NOW WE KNOW that the agents themselves had NO REAL knowledge on JUST what the serum could do EXCEPT that it would save JT. But AT WHAT COST? Only the future and continuous tests (through cases AND ADRENALINE rushes, or fear or anger) will let us know what JT is "becoming." So WE GOT TO SEE the START of that "something" tonight! JT felt ANGER at the way Tess' brothers were treating the two of them. AND HE RESPONDED by focusing and having perfect aim, something he himself admits he had no skill in before. So JT will continue to exhibit MORE abilities as the season progresses, I am sure. As to whether or not it affects his PERSONALITY remains to be seen. THINK "CHUCK" for those of you who have seen that series --the abilities of Chuck when received by Morgan, his best friend, affect the guy's personality BECAUSE of the tweak to the formula/intersect made by the Fulcrum. So there has been a "tweaking" of the serum going on, and how this will continue to affect JT remains to be seen. BUT JT has what long kept Vincent from succumbing to his beast side--a STRONG SUPPORT TEAM in his friends and Tess. And ultimately, THAT is what SAVES VinCat. Their support team manages to confront them individually AND ENCOURAGES them to talk to one another. THAT is what most irks Cat--the fact that Vincent seemed willing to talk to EVERYONE ELSE about their problems BUT her. BUT THAT ALSO made Cat realize that she HAD TO LISTEN AND COMPROMISE. So she packs up some of HER things --because it needs to be THEIR home and NOT just hers. (Even if the lamp is just THAT ugly!) Cat and Vincent have long had to deal with their PAIN and their PROBLEMS alone. Now, they have each other and their friends. They are forming their own FAMILY together. And I LOVED seeing this in operation tonight! And Heather returns with some of her annoying little habits. THANK GOODNESS! She was beginnnig to sound more mature than Cat, and I didn't want her just around to give better sisterly advice. Tonight, she DOES recognize just how significantly close VinCat are, even if EACH has their momentary doubts and insecurities. So she HELPS both of them, as well as annoying the heck out of them accidentally. And SHE has to learn BOUNDARIES, JUST AS MUCH as VinCat in their own way! So her problems serve to actually HELP as well as pleasantly annoy. She and Vincent actually bonded some. I even liked how they handled the hacker guy. He WAS a victim. In trying to solve his problems, he ended up killing the courier, which proved to be an accident. The guy was better able to control his abilities and left Agent Thomas alive. And in the end, Cat was able to make BOTH Alton and Vincent see that the end result of their fight would only be their mutual deaths. BUT IT ALSO showed that no matter VinCat's SURFACE insecurities, THEY STILL HAD that loving and SOLID FOUNDATION in their relationship that allowed each to PROVIDE THE OTHER with what was needed. (I get why people are annoyed that the Hacker guy might get away with his actions. But on the scheme of things, the Hacker went after the guilty parties or defended himself. He really WAS a victim and DID stop himself in the end. Doesn't wipe the slate clean. But really, who would prosecute this case? Where is the proof? No jury is going to believe the electric stuff, so the best that can happen is for this guy to be cured or else inevitably succumb to the tumor. One way or the other, THIS ONE will solve itself. The Hacker either dies on the operating room table OR the tumor and the ability will be removed.) This guy was NOT Gabe--he didn't go deliberately looking to beast himself out in order to kill. SO I LOVED THIS ONE! The FLOW of the episode had everything to it that last week's episode lacked for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked the beginning and ending scenes of last week's episode. BUT THIS ONE had EVERYTHING--great bonding moments (between the guys and the girls with their best friends) as well as showing relationship strengths and weaknesses. And VinCat have always been rushing from Danger to Danger, so they have NEVER had a chance to just be quiet and still with one another. And actually learn one another's individual interests and things done in their down-time. So I LOVED seeing how VinCat has so much to learn about one another. And that both is SO afraid to mess up! It is obviously VERY important to both to be together and to find out how to make it work. And Cat acts true to character: she gets mad at the other person and situation UNTIL she has a chance to truly think about it. And then she learns to compromise and empathize. This was NOT "Ever After" for me at all. I felt this was a realistic portrayal of two individuals who have been ON THEIR OWN for so very long. Each has had to work SO HARD for ABSOLUTE CONTROL that it is tough to surrender some of that control to the other person. Each wants to protect the other, but each must learn to communicate and solve things together. THIS HAS ALWAYS been VinCat's toughest issue each season, although for different reasons. First, they quarrelled over what kind of involvement Vincent should have in the world and towards Muirfield, with various disasters (remember Orchard Industries?) when they DIDN'T work together and chose to "protect" one another or control the situation themselves individually. Same with the discord and distrust sewn into the relationship as a result of Beast Missions and Reynolds in Season 2. So they FINALLY have to tackle the situation head-on this season, rather than just moving on to the next mission or case. Now, VinCat are proceeding with eyes wide open. BUT both realize just how committed they are to one another and making it work. So I am still LOVING it. I mean, I DON'T want my beautiful VinCat to lose their individual quirks and annoyances that actually made me love them in the first place! I love Cat's control freakery--I just love how she is coming to terms with it and realizing that she MUST let Vincent in and communicate with him. VINCENT came far tonight in learning to communicate. CAT is going to have to come farther in LEARNING to listen from the get-go, without doing that car turn JUST because she was angry and annoyed and wanting to knock Vincent on his head (LITERALLY in this scene!). Still LOVING these developments!! That was a FANTASTIC analysis of the issues and beliefs driving our fab four. I totally agree with what you said about Cat - she has never made it this far in a relationship before (Cat said so herself at the beginning of AMP after VinCat did the deed for the 1st time; all her previous relationships ended in disaster!). I think you get what the writers are trying to bring together this season with regards to the development of our heroes. That's not something some of the online reviewers seem to appreciate or understand. Love the continued support that Tess and JT bring to VinCat, while themselves developing as characters. I would like to see a greater intensity in their own relationship with each other though.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jun 19, 2015 2:45:56 GMT -5
FINALLY GOT TO SEE THIS EPISODE!!!!! And I have GOT to say 1 thing: what the FREAK is wrong with my fellow Beasties? For ME, this episode was WONDERFUL in EVERY WAY. I loved EVERY character and every interaction. Every. Single. One. And the FLOW of the episode finally worked for me, as well as the division between PLOT and individual character development. ----My Review---- COUPLE Interaction: This was ENTIRELY consistent with VinCat. Quite frankly, Cat has always gone on and on about the romance of having the forbidden love, the hiding, the falling in love. At the beginning of Season 2, she even tried to put a positive spin on Vincent's amnesia by saying that they would get to do all of their "firsts" again--like kiss, date, etc. Which all made it PAINFULLY real how she has NEVER made it THIS FAR in a relationship before. After all the drama, Cat has no idea how to JUST BE STILL and live normally! "Normal is HARD." -- Cat has had to fend for herself for so very, very long. And go from drama to trauma, over and over again. And usually find that the people she was leaning on, if she was leaning on anyone at all, were not up to the challenge. And other than JT, Vincent literally had NO LIFE outside of a warehouse. Meaning NO interaction with the regular world. So no struggle with figuring out how to balance personal life from professional life. He just had JT and video games! Cat is territorial of her stuff. Her apartment has been her own private batcave for so long. SHE HAS ORDER in her place. (REMEMBER Cat in Season 1 --in "Worth" when she thought that Vincent was blowing her off, SHE FILED at the precinct--THAT was how Tess knew something was wrong. So Cat has to SPECIFICALLY put ORDER to EVERY LITTLE object in order to feel in CONTROL.) Now, our dear little miss obsessive control freak must cede partial control over her life, her apartment, her worries, etc. And as the episode progresses, Cat talks Vincent AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HERSELF through this all-important lesson. "Your problems are my problems." She GETS THAT and says that to Vincent while working the case. So Cat gets the concept ONLY as a result of having to process THROUGH A CASE. Cat will do what is necessary to solve a case. IT IS A ROUTINE she knows. SHE IS USED TO A PARTNER ON A CASE and to making use of the resources at hand. So working through her case makes her work through the issue with Vincent as well. You have to COMMUNICATE in a case--the other person HAS to have ALL of the information, know your whereabouts, and divvy out the tasks between the two to get the case solved. And in building a case, you have to understand the MOTIVES behind it. And NOTICE that THAT IS THE REASON that TESS knows Cat best AND knows EXACTLY where Cat's problems with Vincent truly lie. She points it out to Cat in the scene on the way to break into the agent's office. Cat is going to do EXACTLY what Cat wants to do and drag her partner along for the ride. So Cat thinks SHE must direct the relationship boat. But as the episode and case progresses, Cat learns to share the load as well as figure out the solutions WITH her team. And Tess is CONFIDENT in the following: that she KNOWS her partner and best friend AND that she has faith and a comfort level with her lover. Tess has clearly been bullied by her brothers her whole life--they have banded together and treat her with contempt. Unfortunately, that is WHY Tess so lacks self-confidence when it counts. BUT JT BELIEVES in her, and she believes in him. BOTH of them have a COMFORT LEVEL and TRUST in one another and what they can do. I LOVED their interactions throughout this episode. AND THAT IS WHY Tess and JT can give such GREAT advice to their best friends--for once, they are comfortable in their own homes and space with their loved ones. So they can use their energies to help their friends with their problems. I LOVED THIS. In Season 2, Tess was whiney herself due to having lost her own relationship, particularly in the WAY she lost it--Joe's obsession over the vigilante, which messed with her CAREER as well. So Tess was MISERABLE and determined to keep Cat away from a man on obsessive missions that dragged everyone down with him. NOW, in SEASON 3, we get to see how DOMESTIC comfort leads to COMFORT in the professional field AS WELL--Tess ACTUALLY finally feels the confidence to pursue the CAPTAIN's position. All because JT had her back and reminded her of her OWN abilities, something her BROTHERS never did. Her brothers only ever tore her down, ESPECIALLY in any field where they were competitive. And she LIKES that JT is nerdy--and is able to show her own nerdy self without recrimination---hence, she can where her periodic table shirt! JT ---Okay, I LOVE where this is going. So FRINGE and every other GOOD sci-fi show that I have loved! There is the mystery there. NOW WE KNOW that the agents themselves had NO REAL knowledge on JUST what the serum could do EXCEPT that it would save JT. But AT WHAT COST? Only the future and continuous tests (through cases AND ADRENALINE rushes, or fear or anger) will let us know what JT is "becoming." So WE GOT TO SEE the START of that "something" tonight! JT felt ANGER at the way Tess' brothers were treating the two of them. AND HE RESPONDED by focusing and having perfect aim, something he himself admits he had no skill in before. So JT will continue to exhibit MORE abilities as the season progresses, I am sure. As to whether or not it affects his PERSONALITY remains to be seen. THINK "CHUCK" for those of you who have seen that series --the abilities of Chuck when received by Morgan, his best friend, affect the guy's personality BECAUSE of the tweak to the formula/intersect made by the Fulcrum. So there has been a "tweaking" of the serum going on, and how this will continue to affect JT remains to be seen. BUT JT has what long kept Vincent from succumbing to his beast side--a STRONG SUPPORT TEAM in his friends and Tess. And ultimately, THAT is what SAVES VinCat. Their support team manages to confront them individually AND ENCOURAGES them to talk to one another. THAT is what most irks Cat--the fact that Vincent seemed willing to talk to EVERYONE ELSE about their problems BUT her. BUT THAT ALSO made Cat realize that she HAD TO LISTEN AND COMPROMISE. So she packs up some of HER things --because it needs to be THEIR home and NOT just hers. (Even if the lamp is just THAT ugly!) Cat and Vincent have long had to deal with their PAIN and their PROBLEMS alone. Now, they have each other and their friends. They are forming their own FAMILY together. And I LOVED seeing this in operation tonight! And Heather returns with some of her annoying little habits. THANK GOODNESS! She was beginnnig to sound more mature than Cat, and I didn't want her just around to give better sisterly advice. Tonight, she DOES recognize just how significantly close VinCat are, even if EACH has their momentary doubts and insecurities. So she HELPS both of them, as well as annoying the heck out of them accidentally. And SHE has to learn BOUNDARIES, JUST AS MUCH as VinCat in their own way! So her problems serve to actually HELP as well as pleasantly annoy. She and Vincent actually bonded some. I even liked how they handled the hacker guy. He WAS a victim. In trying to solve his problems, he ended up killing the courier, which proved to be an accident. The guy was better able to control his abilities and left Agent Thomas alive. And in the end, Cat was able to make BOTH Alton and Vincent see that the end result of their fight would only be their mutual deaths. BUT IT ALSO showed that no matter VinCat's SURFACE insecurities, THEY STILL HAD that loving and SOLID FOUNDATION in their relationship that allowed each to PROVIDE THE OTHER with what was needed. (I get why people are annoyed that the Hacker guy might get away with his actions. But on the scheme of things, the Hacker went after the guilty parties or defended himself. He really WAS a victim and DID stop himself in the end. Doesn't wipe the slate clean. But really, who would prosecute this case? Where is the proof? No jury is going to believe the electric stuff, so the best that can happen is for this guy to be cured or else inevitably succumb to the tumor. One way or the other, THIS ONE will solve itself. The Hacker either dies on the operating room table OR the tumor and the ability will be removed.) This guy was NOT Gabe--he didn't go deliberately looking to beast himself out in order to kill. SO I LOVED THIS ONE! The FLOW of the episode had everything to it that last week's episode lacked for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked the beginning and ending scenes of last week's episode. BUT THIS ONE had EVERYTHING--great bonding moments (between the guys and the girls with their best friends) as well as showing relationship strengths and weaknesses. And VinCat have always been rushing from Danger to Danger, so they have NEVER had a chance to just be quiet and still with one another. And actually learn one another's individual interests and things done in their down-time. So I LOVED seeing how VinCat has so much to learn about one another. And that both is SO afraid to mess up! It is obviously VERY important to both to be together and to find out how to make it work. And Cat acts true to character: she gets mad at the other person and situation UNTIL she has a chance to truly think about it. And then she learns to compromise and empathize. This was NOT "Ever After" for me at all. I felt this was a realistic portrayal of two individuals who have been ON THEIR OWN for so very long. Each has had to work SO HARD for ABSOLUTE CONTROL that it is tough to surrender some of that control to the other person. Each wants to protect the other, but each must learn to communicate and solve things together. THIS HAS ALWAYS been VinCat's toughest issue each season, although for different reasons. First, they quarrelled over what kind of involvement Vincent should have in the world and towards Muirfield, with various disasters (remember Orchard Industries?) when they DIDN'T work together and chose to "protect" one another or control the situation themselves individually. Same with the discord and distrust sewn into the relationship as a result of Beast Missions and Reynolds in Season 2. So they FINALLY have to tackle the situation head-on this season, rather than just moving on to the next mission or case. Now, VinCat are proceeding with eyes wide open. BUT both realize just how committed they are to one another and making it work. So I am still LOVING it. I mean, I DON'T want my beautiful VinCat to lose their individual quirks and annoyances that actually made me love them in the first place! I love Cat's control freakery--I just love how she is coming to terms with it and realizing that she MUST let Vincent in and communicate with him. VINCENT came far tonight in learning to communicate. CAT is going to have to come farther in LEARNING to listen from the get-go, without doing that car turn JUST because she was angry and annoyed and wanting to knock Vincent on his head (LITERALLY in this scene!). Still LOVING these developments!! I personally think the episode didn't work for many cause of the silliness and execution of the episode. Not everyone can agree on or like the same thing. I was one that enjoyed the episode with a few exceptions but again that's just me. It has a lot to do with the direction it took as well, it could have been an angsty episode with the subject matter but instead the writers decided to go with the comedic and cute aspect of it. That turns many beasties off. Others thought too repetitive, for me that was the ONLY thing that I found I didn't like. The having to bring Vincent down from his BEASTMODE when in season ONE he didn't need any help in doing so
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Post by Bill the beast on Jun 19, 2015 3:56:25 GMT -5
I like this discussion about how the simple decision to move in together has revealed the VinCat fault lines. These two may have found their way back to each other but that doesn't mean anything is going to be easy from here on out. Catherine and Vincent are both still "broken" characters, although there has been growth and development. This is how they've always been setup from the beginning. Catherine needs to be the judge of what is Justice, she has to enact Justice in her world, she needs to be in control, the leader. And at one time she was afraid of her feelings, particularly how important Vincent is to her. Vincent is afraid of the Beast within. He fears he will lose control of the inner self and lash out, destroying his relationships and ultimately himself in the process. So they both live in fear that they will lose control. But the heart of their mythology is that through love, together they can heal each other. It's not going to happen in one episode or even one season, maybe. But that is their process. That is what we will continue to witness, in all its various forms. This episode was about their need to communicate better. I like the way alwayscrazedbatbfan put it. Catherine "gets the concept ONLY as a result of having to process THROUGH A CASE". Reminds me of the first part of Season 1 where Cat is solving a case but her words also had a double meaning, a personal theme running around in her mind. I was actually a big fan of those cases of the week, just for that reason. The writers actually integrated them with Cat's inner conflicts. And she grew, there was real character development. Same with Vincent. So that was one of the wonderful things about Season 1. Sherri & Jennifer knew exactly what they were doing. By the way, I must say this S3 Catherine theme "If Vincent kills, his humanity will be lost" is not working for me. I know they want to make Cat the guardian of his humanity but this just seems dumb. Sometimes the police have to shoot some guy that's gone off his nut. It's the only way to stop him. To NOT do so would be inhuman. Catherine has had to do it herself in the shooting of Jacob Sutter in S2. You don't enjoy it but the lives you worry about saving are all the innocent victims, first and foremost. This seems to be something introduced this season that I do not remember from S2. Every time Vincent uses Beast power he is in danger of losing control and killing every one within reach. Only Catherine is there to use, as tonysol put it, her "charmspeak" to calm all enhanced humans nearby ... Where the Heck did this come from?
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Post by Chymere on Jun 19, 2015 6:30:29 GMT -5
I personally think the episode didn't work for many cause of the silliness and execution of the episode. Not everyone can agree on or like the same thing. I was one that enjoyed the episode with a few exceptions but again that's just me. It has a lot to do with the direction it took as well, it could have been an angsty episode with the subject matter but instead the writers decided to go with the comedic and cute aspect of it. That turns many beasties off. Others thought too repetitive, for me that was the ONLY thing that I found I didn't like. The having to bring Vincent down from his BEASTMODE when in season ONE he didn't need any help in doing soI liked the episode but yes this is one of the points who bothers me! Ok for the repetition in 3.01 maybe this helped to catch new viewers and understand the show better. Now again in 3.02 the same dialogue about lose humanity blah! blah! blah!... I hope each fight will not ending with the same speech and move forward. The another thing that annoys me a little, I am sorry about what I will have to say but it's when Jay overact his comical side, it a great actor sure with multiple facets so I think it could be play comedy a more natural way. In this situations sometimes I seem to see "Kevin" and I want and need to see Vincent! That said, I liked the several character interactions on the phone, there was funny moments. I think this episode prepares us for upcoming episodes darker, the kind of have a good laugh now because after you will crying and freak out! LOL! I was sure that Heather was in the shower and not Vincent , Bromance moment was nice and JTnT was ok for me because I don't expecte nothing more, I don't want nothing romantic at all with them like VinCat! I liked the shooting range scene with the macho brother! JT has assured! Yeahhh!
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jun 19, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -5
[Hi alwayscrazedbatbfan I, unfortunately, have not seen the episode yet. It was preempted due to some local event. I won't be able to view it until perhaps tomorrow or possibly Saturday. I will painfully have to reserve my enthusiasm until later. I am not reading this thread so that I can experience this episode without spoilers or my fellow Beasties' personal observations. I will be back to give me observations and I'm certain that I will not be disappointed in our VinCat. I'll gush with you soon! Are you in Chicago? Hi pippin Yes currently. I'm a Midwestern girl, by birth, as a result of business as well as social connections. You can find me anywhere in my devoted state of Wisconsin, Minnesota, sometimes Michigan and Northern Illinois at any given time. Can't you tell from my touchy feely expressions. This is the heart of who I am and darn it indicative of the traditional Midwestern demeanor!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 19, 2015 7:36:09 GMT -5
FINALLY GOT TO SEE THIS EPISODE!!!!! And I have GOT to say 1 thing: what the FREAK is wrong with my fellow Beasties? For ME, this episode was WONDERFUL in EVERY WAY. I loved EVERY character and every interaction. Every. Single. One. And the FLOW of the episode finally worked for me, as well as the division between PLOT and individual character development. ----My Review---- COUPLE Interaction: This was ENTIRELY consistent with VinCat. Quite frankly, Cat has always gone on and on about the romance of having the forbidden love, the hiding, the falling in love. At the beginning of Season 2, she even tried to put a positive spin on Vincent's amnesia by saying that they would get to do all of their "firsts" again--like kiss, date, etc. Which all made it PAINFULLY real how she has NEVER made it THIS FAR in a relationship before. After all the drama, Cat has no idea how to JUST BE STILL and live normally! "Normal is HARD." -- Cat has had to fend for herself for so very, very long. And go from drama to trauma, over and over again. And usually find that the people she was leaning on, if she was leaning on anyone at all, were not up to the challenge. And other than JT, Vincent literally had NO LIFE outside of a warehouse. Meaning NO interaction with the regular world. So no struggle with figuring out how to balance personal life from professional life. He just had JT and video games! Cat is territorial of her stuff. Her apartment has been her own private batcave for so long. SHE HAS ORDER in her place. (REMEMBER Cat in Season 1 --in "Worth" when she thought that Vincent was blowing her off, SHE FILED at the precinct--THAT was how Tess knew something was wrong. So Cat has to SPECIFICALLY put ORDER to EVERY LITTLE object in order to feel in CONTROL.) Now, our dear little miss obsessive control freak must cede partial control over her life, her apartment, her worries, etc. And as the episode progresses, Cat talks Vincent AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HERSELF through this all-important lesson. "Your problems are my problems." She GETS THAT and says that to Vincent while working the case. So Cat gets the concept ONLY as a result of having to process THROUGH A CASE. Cat will do what is necessary to solve a case. IT IS A ROUTINE she knows. SHE IS USED TO A PARTNER ON A CASE and to making use of the resources at hand. So working through her case makes her work through the issue with Vincent as well. You have to COMMUNICATE in a case--the other person HAS to have ALL of the information, know your whereabouts, and divvy out the tasks between the two to get the case solved. And in building a case, you have to understand the MOTIVES behind it. And NOTICE that THAT IS THE REASON that TESS knows Cat best AND knows EXACTLY where Cat's problems with Vincent truly lie. She points it out to Cat in the scene on the way to break into the agent's office. Cat is going to do EXACTLY what Cat wants to do and drag her partner along for the ride. So Cat thinks SHE must direct the relationship boat. But as the episode and case progresses, Cat learns to share the load as well as figure out the solutions WITH her team. And Tess is CONFIDENT in the following: that she KNOWS her partner and best friend AND that she has faith and a comfort level with her lover. Tess has clearly been bullied by her brothers her whole life--they have banded together and treat her with contempt. Unfortunately, that is WHY Tess so lacks self-confidence when it counts. BUT JT BELIEVES in her, and she believes in him. BOTH of them have a COMFORT LEVEL and TRUST in one another and what they can do. I LOVED their interactions throughout this episode. AND THAT IS WHY Tess and JT can give such GREAT advice to their best friends--for once, they are comfortable in their own homes and space with their loved ones. So they can use their energies to help their friends with their problems. I LOVED THIS. In Season 2, Tess was whiney herself due to having lost her own relationship, particularly in the WAY she lost it--Joe's obsession over the vigilante, which messed with her CAREER as well. So Tess was MISERABLE and determined to keep Cat away from a man on obsessive missions that dragged everyone down with him. NOW, in SEASON 3, we get to see how DOMESTIC comfort leads to COMFORT in the professional field AS WELL--Tess ACTUALLY finally feels the confidence to pursue the CAPTAIN's position. All because JT had her back and reminded her of her OWN abilities, something her BROTHERS never did. Her brothers only ever tore her down, ESPECIALLY in any field where they were competitive. And she LIKES that JT is nerdy--and is able to show her own nerdy self without recrimination---hence, she can where her periodic table shirt! JT ---Okay, I LOVE where this is going. So FRINGE and every other GOOD sci-fi show that I have loved! There is the mystery there. NOW WE KNOW that the agents themselves had NO REAL knowledge on JUST what the serum could do EXCEPT that it would save JT. But AT WHAT COST? Only the future and continuous tests (through cases AND ADRENALINE rushes, or fear or anger) will let us know what JT is "becoming." So WE GOT TO SEE the START of that "something" tonight! JT felt ANGER at the way Tess' brothers were treating the two of them. AND HE RESPONDED by focusing and having perfect aim, something he himself admits he had no skill in before. So JT will continue to exhibit MORE abilities as the season progresses, I am sure. As to whether or not it affects his PERSONALITY remains to be seen. THINK "CHUCK" for those of you who have seen that series --the abilities of Chuck when received by Morgan, his best friend, affect the guy's personality BECAUSE of the tweak to the formula/intersect made by the Fulcrum. So there has been a "tweaking" of the serum going on, and how this will continue to affect JT remains to be seen. BUT JT has what long kept Vincent from succumbing to his beast side--a STRONG SUPPORT TEAM in his friends and Tess. And ultimately, THAT is what SAVES VinCat. Their support team manages to confront them individually AND ENCOURAGES them to talk to one another. THAT is what most irks Cat--the fact that Vincent seemed willing to talk to EVERYONE ELSE about their problems BUT her. BUT THAT ALSO made Cat realize that she HAD TO LISTEN AND COMPROMISE. So she packs up some of HER things --because it needs to be THEIR home and NOT just hers. (Even if the lamp is just THAT ugly!) Cat and Vincent have long had to deal with their PAIN and their PROBLEMS alone. Now, they have each other and their friends. They are forming their own FAMILY together. And I LOVED seeing this in operation tonight! And Heather returns with some of her annoying little habits. THANK GOODNESS! She was beginnnig to sound more mature than Cat, and I didn't want her just around to give better sisterly advice. Tonight, she DOES recognize just how significantly close VinCat are, even if EACH has their momentary doubts and insecurities. So she HELPS both of them, as well as annoying the heck out of them accidentally. And SHE has to learn BOUNDARIES, JUST AS MUCH as VinCat in their own way! So her problems serve to actually HELP as well as pleasantly annoy. She and Vincent actually bonded some. I even liked how they handled the hacker guy. He WAS a victim. In trying to solve his problems, he ended up killing the courier, which proved to be an accident. The guy was better able to control his abilities and left Agent Thomas alive. And in the end, Cat was able to make BOTH Alton and Vincent see that the end result of their fight would only be their mutual deaths. BUT IT ALSO showed that no matter VinCat's SURFACE insecurities, THEY STILL HAD that loving and SOLID FOUNDATION in their relationship that allowed each to PROVIDE THE OTHER with what was needed. (I get why people are annoyed that the Hacker guy might get away with his actions. But on the scheme of things, the Hacker went after the guilty parties or defended himself. He really WAS a victim and DID stop himself in the end. Doesn't wipe the slate clean. But really, who would prosecute this case? Where is the proof? No jury is going to believe the electric stuff, so the best that can happen is for this guy to be cured or else inevitably succumb to the tumor. One way or the other, THIS ONE will solve itself. The Hacker either dies on the operating room table OR the tumor and the ability will be removed.) This guy was NOT Gabe--he didn't go deliberately looking to beast himself out in order to kill. SO I LOVED THIS ONE! The FLOW of the episode had everything to it that last week's episode lacked for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked the beginning and ending scenes of last week's episode. BUT THIS ONE had EVERYTHING--great bonding moments (between the guys and the girls with their best friends) as well as showing relationship strengths and weaknesses. And VinCat have always been rushing from Danger to Danger, so they have NEVER had a chance to just be quiet and still with one another. And actually learn one another's individual interests and things done in their down-time. So I LOVED seeing how VinCat has so much to learn about one another. And that both is SO afraid to mess up! It is obviously VERY important to both to be together and to find out how to make it work. And Cat acts true to character: she gets mad at the other person and situation UNTIL she has a chance to truly think about it. And then she learns to compromise and empathize. This was NOT "Ever After" for me at all. I felt this was a realistic portrayal of two individuals who have been ON THEIR OWN for so very long. Each has had to work SO HARD for ABSOLUTE CONTROL that it is tough to surrender some of that control to the other person. Each wants to protect the other, but each must learn to communicate and solve things together. THIS HAS ALWAYS been VinCat's toughest issue each season, although for different reasons. First, they quarrelled over what kind of involvement Vincent should have in the world and towards Muirfield, with various disasters (remember Orchard Industries?) when they DIDN'T work together and chose to "protect" one another or control the situation themselves individually. Same with the discord and distrust sewn into the relationship as a result of Beast Missions and Reynolds in Season 2. So they FINALLY have to tackle the situation head-on this season, rather than just moving on to the next mission or case. Now, VinCat are proceeding with eyes wide open. BUT both realize just how committed they are to one another and making it work. So I am still LOVING it. I mean, I DON'T want my beautiful VinCat to lose their individual quirks and annoyances that actually made me love them in the first place! I love Cat's control freakery--I just love how she is coming to terms with it and realizing that she MUST let Vincent in and communicate with him. VINCENT came far tonight in learning to communicate. CAT is going to have to come farther in LEARNING to listen from the get-go, without doing that car turn JUST because she was angry and annoyed and wanting to knock Vincent on his head (LITERALLY in this scene!). Still LOVING these developments!! I personally think the episode didn't work for many cause of the silliness and execution of the episode. Not everyone can agree on or like the same thing. I was one that enjoyed the episode with a few exceptions but again that's just me. It has a lot to do with the direction it took as well, it could have been an angsty episode with the subject matter but instead the writers decided to go with the comedic and cute aspect of it. That turns many beasties off. Others thought too repetitive, for me that was the ONLY thing that I found I didn't like. The having to bring Vincent down from his BEASTMODE when in season ONE he didn't need any help in doing so Thanks Yolie, Yes, at this stage I am not interested in analysing the intentions and motives of Vincent or Catherine or anyone else for that matter and trying to understand the whys and the hows because this is not the issue here for me (well, not the main issue anyway). I have an issue with the approach adopted in telling the story and the methodology for character exploration and development. I feel it is disjointed, not cohesive enough, the writing is somewhat blunt and it is somewhat repetitive. I really enjoyed reading Bill’s post – I feel we had a clear path in season 1 specifically around the characters and their individual character development and their mutual relationship development. It was extremely well done in that respect and had a very clear beginning, middle and end. Very very well thought of and it all (even the silly cases) linked to that overall vision – writing was weaker in other aspects such as constructing a big threat etc but not in that very important aspect. And I feel the writing along with jays and kristins acting made what appeared on screen pretty special and why so many people got seriously hooked. In season 2 i felt they started off with a plan in mind and i could kind of work out where they were heading – but then they deviated from their original plan (for a number of reasons) plus their plan was also based on some very wrong choices that did not make sense – Gabe etc. And now this third season we are only into episode 2 of 13 and i am very very confused as to what they are trying to bring to the table and what the show’s identity is or/and the linkages to previous seasons. I felt they started off quite well with episode 1 but they completely threw me off with episode 2 - I fear the writers themselves are also very confused, or maybe not. So at this stage I am not trying to delve into the characters’ inner psyche as I personally find it pointless. My issue with the episode was of a different nature. I do understand I may not be able to see their vision as early as episode 2 but there are definitely some red flags – quit e a few of them and i cant help but feel confused and sceptical about the future direction of the show. Hopefully episode 3 can help clear any confusion I currently have, and hopefully in a positive way.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jun 19, 2015 7:43:44 GMT -5
I like this discussion about how the simple decision to move in together has revealed the VinCat fault lines. These two may have found their way back to each other but that doesn't mean anything is going to be easy from here on out. Catherine and Vincent are both still "broken" characters, although there has been growth and development. This is how they've always been setup from the beginning. Catherine needs to be the judge of what is Justice, she has to enact Justice in her world, she needs to be in control, the leader. And at one time she was afraid of her feelings, particularly how important Vincent is to her. Vincent is afraid of the Beast within. He fears he will lose control of the inner self and lash out, destroying his relationships and ultimately himself in the process. So they both live in fear that they will lose control. But the heart of their mythology is that through love, together they can heal each other. It's not going to happen in one episode or even one season, maybe. But that is their process. That is what we will continue to witness, in all its various forms. This episode was about their need to communicate better. I like the way alwayscrazedbatbfan put it. Catherine "gets the concept ONLY as a result of having to process THROUGH A CASE". Reminds me of the first part of Season 1 where Cat is solving a case but her words also had a double meaning, a personal theme running around in her mind. I was actually a big fan of those cases of the week, just for that reason. The writers actually integrated them with Cat's inner conflicts. And she grew, there was real character development. Same with Vincent. So that was one of the wonderful things about Season 1. Sherri & Jennifer knew exactly what they were doing. By the way, I must say this S3 Catherine theme "If Vincent kills, his humanity will be lost" is not working for me. I know they want to make Cat the guardian of his humanity but this just seems dumb. Sometimes the police have to shoot some guy that's gone off his nut. It's the only way to stop him. To NOT do so would be inhuman. Catherine has had to do it herself in the shooting of Jacob Sutter in S2. You don't enjoy it but the lives you worry about saving are all the innocent victims, first and foremost. This seems to be something introduced this season that I do not remember from S2. Every time Vincent uses Beast power he is in danger of losing control and killing every one within reach. Only Catherine is there to use, as tonysol put it, her "charmspeak" to calm all enhanced humans nearby ... Where the Heck did this come from? Hi Bill the beast, I love the greater portion of what you said but personal disagree regarding your reference to the S3 Catherine theme. I do not believe it is simply her theme I believe it is the theme of the saga and paramount to the outworking of their destiny. I must go back to Rebecca's diary, it wasn't simply thrown into the dialogue. It has substance and is crucial to the further development of our characters. Rebecca and Bob Reynold mentions strongly this fear because it is real. I love justice too but when it results in death there is a high price to be paid whether it was justified or not. Trust that because Catherine is who she is she has personally experienced it as so many others have. That is at the heart of Catherine's fear largely looming and she has to voice it especially to Vincent because clearly he isn't certain where to draw the line is he when he is a Beast? I respect your feeling about this but I think "charmspeak" or as I prefer "the Gem Effect" is realistic due to the unknown nature of their unique circumstance. Her love grounds him for a reason which, sorry to sound like a broken record, if this saga is written properly will manifest itself beautifully. I too wish Sherri and Jennifer could have written our story from conception to finale and constantly hope for their miraculous return. If they did I think our thread would be unanimously filled with jubilation. I look forward to more of your observations. I do sincerely enjoy them!
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Post by Lisa on Jun 19, 2015 10:04:27 GMT -5
I thought the episode was great. I laughed out loud during the V and C car ride/Heather phone call. Loved the V and JT scenes. While I thought last week felt rushed and disjointed, I thought this week they found their footing. Fast paced, but not rushed. Yes, it got a bit silly with V beasting out about flat screens, but I didn't mind. I was entertained. Loved the last scene..."wanna play a video game?" Lol!
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jun 19, 2015 10:41:57 GMT -5
*Le sigh* I feel kind of ambivalent about this episode. The "moving in" together issues feel a little like a contrivance to me, (ha ha what else is new), and honestly, as others have stated, for a guy that fled his previous abode with few belongings... who really cares about an old lamp? Frankly, I'm surprised he does. I can kind of see the flat screen being a thing, but again, color me surprised he even owns one. It seems like the bigger ticket items might have belonged to JT. But alas, I might have forgotten about S2 and all those pesky "living situation" details we weren't really privy to. Maybe he bought a flatscreen when he was living at the boathouse? I don't know. It seems like anything that meant anything to him would have lived in the gentleman's club with JT. Details details. This show is kind of infamous for fogging the windows and perimeter of these situations. The blurry details remind me of the she-beast, and to be honest that erodes my sense of equilibrium here. Anyway, I'll try to stay on track.
I was pretty amused by the Heather-Vincent interaction, and this was one of the only "funny" parts of the episode that I really liked. She's an emotional wreck, and meanwhile he's trying to curb his inner beast. For a moment this was the show that I loved and I was thoroughly entertained. It's funny that it's Heather and Vincent that bring it all back for me. Maybe I have too much baggage when it comes to my favorite couple. Too much is still too much. They broke me last year. I was pregnant and emotional, and I can't get my VinCat groove back, it seems. Anyway... The VinCat car ride/phone call with Heather scene was good too... but again, it was Heather and her messy emotional-wrecked-ness that was so entertaining, and Vincent trying to backpedal. I know Heather annoys everyone, but she is pretty good at bringing back some of the vibe that I used to love. Her character is messy and kind of annoying, but wonderfully grounded in the essence of everything I loved about S1. And she was pretty minimally involved in S2. I love that too. I wish VinCat had been minimally involved in S2. LOL. Heh.
I'm not really feeling whatever is going on with JT either, and the case of the week is just that... meh. The scene with Cat repetitively talking Vincent down, was cringe-worthy, IMO. Anyway, that is about all I've got. The episode that centers on "commitment issues" leaves me feeling some commitment issues of my own with my "favorite show." No big surprises here.
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Post by Lisa on Jun 19, 2015 10:47:22 GMT -5
I'm not really feeling whatever is going on with JT either, and the case of the week is just that... meh. The scene with Cat repetitively talking Vincent down, was cringe-worthy, IMO. Anyway, that is about all I've got. The episode that centers on "commitment issues" leaves me feeling some commitment issues of my own with my "favorite show." No big surprises here. I'm not feeling the JT storyline either. I love JT the way he was...just witty/funny/loyal...I don't want him turning into some crazed lunatic with super-human powers or worse.
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Post by Bill the beast on Jun 19, 2015 12:07:25 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice this other series about a NYC Detective named "Cat" who works at the 125th precinct? I'm talking about "Taxi Brooklyn" with Chyler Leigh. The premise is that she can't drive so she leans on this French-born Brooklyn cabbie named Leon for transportation and help in solving cases.
Imitation is sincere flattery but the show just tried too hard. I lost interest after a few episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 12:29:40 GMT -5
"Charmspeak," I like that. :)
I just can't stand Heather. A more irritating presence as the kid sister would not be possible, in my opinion. It's no wonder her fiance' dumped her. :)
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Post by Laura on Jun 19, 2015 13:57:26 GMT -5
FINALLY GOT TO SEE THIS EPISODE!!!!! And I have GOT to say 1 thing: what the FREAK is wrong with my fellow Beasties? For ME, this episode was WONDERFUL in EVERY WAY. It's simply a matter of opinion I think we just have to agree to disagree.
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