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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 20, 2015 18:14:03 GMT -5
I think some are making too much out of this Catherine/humanity thing. It's very simple for me.
If Vincent/Beast kills an innocent out of rage or revenge with intent to kill, Cat feels she will lose him as he's crossed the line. Whether it's the guy from Wall Street (Tyler) or this electro guy (Alton) or anyone else, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he gave into the worst side of the Beast vs. allowing his humanity to control him. That is something Catherine can't live with.
If he kills out of self defense or by accident while trying to save someone (as has happened many times before), it's still not good, but it's something that could happen to anyone "human" (just as it has happened to Cat). Hence, he will not lose his humanity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 19:42:58 GMT -5
Good explanation, but I'm not sure the writers have thought this through as well as you have. :) Either way, it's still difficult to grasp Cat's mindset until later when/if a person has re-watched the episode and/or compared notes on this forum. It shouldn't be that difficult. :)
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jun 20, 2015 19:50:07 GMT -5
I think some are making too much out of this Catherine/humanity thing. It's very simple for me. If Vincent/Beast kills an innocent out of rage or revenge with intent to kill, Cat feels she will lose him as he's crossed the line. Whether it's the guy from Wall Street (Tyler) or this electro guy (Alton) or anyone else, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he gave into the worst side of the Beast vs. allowing his humanity to control him. That is something Catherine can't live with. If he kills out of self defense or by accident while trying to save someone (as has happened many times before), it's still not good, but it's something that could happen to anyone "human" (just as it has happened to Cat). Hence, he will not lose his humanity. BeastieBoy, great observation!
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jun 20, 2015 19:54:13 GMT -5
Good explanation, but I'm not sure the writers have thought this through as well as you have. Either way, it's still difficult to grasp Cat's mindset until later when/if a person has re-watched the episode and/or compared notes on this forum. It shouldn't be that difficult. Dave, I only hope that the writers are thinking this through! This could be a wonderful saga if written properly. I have high hope that they are on the right track because I see a satisfying progression if they get it right. I will be faithful to the show in this hope.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 20, 2015 21:29:42 GMT -5
Good explanation, but I'm not sure the writers have thought this through as well as you have. Either way, it's still difficult to grasp Cat's mindset until later when/if a person has re-watched the episode and/or compared notes on this forum. It shouldn't be that difficult. Dave, I only hope that the writers are thinking this through! This could be a wonderful saga if written properly. I have high hope that they are on the right track because I see a satisfying progression if they get it right. I will be faithful to the show in this hope. I hope the writers have thought it through. I think they have, because it was the same ultimatum/plea that Catherine gave to Vincent in 208 "Man or Beast"; that time Vincent chose to ignore Cat and gave into his Beast - hence their break up. While I thought it was fine to revisit this in 301, the writers kind of over did it by having her use the "gem effect" two episodes in a row. Cat's "gem effect" should be saved for certain episodes only and they need to change it up so it doesn't become cliche.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 20, 2015 21:57:56 GMT -5
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jun 20, 2015 22:03:37 GMT -5
BeastieBoy, I with you in that thought and hope. It would be destructive not only to the validity of the story but most importantly to the enjoyment if they overuse the "Gem Effect". The purpose of that nuance of their relationship would be tarnished and destroy it's importance within the saga. Which I would absolutely be deeply disappointed should that occur certainly as we are so near what should be the long awaited payoff for we loyal Beasties!
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Post by pippin on Jun 21, 2015 0:59:51 GMT -5
I think some are making too much out of this Catherine/humanity thing. It's very simple for me. If Vincent/Beast kills an innocent out of rage or revenge with intent to kill, Cat feels she will lose him as he's crossed the line. Whether it's the guy from Wall Street (Tyler) or this electro guy (Alton) or anyone else, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he gave into the worst side of the Beast vs. allowing his humanity to control him. That is something Catherine can't live with. I thought that was more the man or beast arc. When Vincent had Reynolds, he was basically like a bad cop who had his suspect down and subdued but decides to shoot and kill him anyway. Vincent had killed lots of people before, but now he was going to murder someone so that's why Cat shot him. Now, I think they are continuing with the theme they started when Gabe turned back into a beast and saying that in order to defeat these super-charged people, Vincent may have to fight them so savagely that he will lose himself and not be able to come back to his human side. Along those lines, I thought they had Vincent take a little longer to turn back after fighting Alton. Now why they can't just use the actual gem on him or that thing the DHS agents put on his wrist in Fake Date but maybe they'll remember those things when it is more convenient. Just like they conveniently forgot about the gem when they were battling Sam's beasts. That's why I thought they should have kept Tori alive and had Vincent let her keep the gem. She could have taken off traveling the world and not been easily reached. That way Vincent wouldn't have looked selfish for keeping the gem for himself and the others wouldn't have looked stupid for not thinking about using it.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 21, 2015 1:18:45 GMT -5
I think some are making too much out of this Catherine/humanity thing. It's very simple for me. If Vincent/Beast kills an innocent out of rage or revenge with intent to kill, Cat feels she will lose him as he's crossed the line. Whether it's the guy from Wall Street (Tyler) or this electro guy (Alton) or anyone else, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he gave into the worst side of the Beast vs. allowing his humanity to control him. That is something Catherine can't live with. I thought that was more the man or beast arc. When Vincent had Reynolds, he was basically like a bad cop who had his suspect down and subdued but decides to shoot and kill him anyway. Vincent had killed lots of people before, but now he was going to murder someone so that's why Cat shot him. Now, I think they are continuing with the theme they started when Gabe turned back into a beast and saying that in order to defeat these super-charged people, Vincent may have to fight them so savagely that he will lose himself and not be able to come back to his human side. Along those lines, I thought they had Vincent take a little longer to turn back after fighting Alton. Now why they can't just use the actual gem on him or that thing the DHS agents put on his wrist in Fake Date but maybe they'll remember those things when it is more convenient. Just like they conveniently forgot about the gem when they were battling Sam's beasts. That's why I thought they should have kept Tori alive and had Vincent let her keep the gem. She could have taken off traveling the world and not been easily reached. That way Vincent wouldn't have looked selfish for keeping the gem for himself and the others wouldn't have looked stupid for not thinking about using it.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 21, 2015 1:55:06 GMT -5
pippin - I do agree about your point of how Vincent may need to beast out so savagely that it's very hard for him to turn back.
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Post by pippin on Jun 21, 2015 2:04:47 GMT -5
pippin - I do agree about your point of how Vincent may need to beast out so savagely that it's very hard for him to turn back. Sorry, I deleted my post and edited anapi -season3baby :) 's post. Forgot I was in the Episode thread
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Post by ragulr25 on Jun 21, 2015 2:15:00 GMT -5
I think some are making too much out of this Catherine/humanity thing. It's very simple for me. If Vincent/Beast kills an innocent out of rage or revenge with intent to kill, Cat feels she will lose him as he's crossed the line. Whether it's the guy from Wall Street (Tyler) or this electro guy (Alton) or anyone else, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he gave into the worst side of the Beast vs. allowing his humanity to control him. That is something Catherine can't live with. If he kills out of self defense or by accident while trying to save someone (as has happened many times before), it's still not good, but it's something that could happen to anyone "human" (just as it has happened to Cat). Hence, he will not lose his humanity. i think cat might be looking too much into the humanity thing. (can some one plz burn that damn diary lol).
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Post by Bill the beast on Jun 21, 2015 10:04:07 GMT -5
Some have mentioned the setup - the possibility - that JT will develop some sort of power because of the serum that saved his life.
Then there is also the suggestion that Catherine has this "Beast-Gem" power to calm anyone who is in Beast mode.
Now all we need is for Tess to be given a "power" and instead of the Fab Four, we can have the "Fantastic Four". Are we ready for a team of crime-fighters, each with his own ability? If I remember my comic books, JT is a ringer for Ben Grimm, "The Thing", in size and shape (sort of).
I can't begin to imagine a super-power for Tess but if she gets the new job, she'll be "Captain Vargas", which at least sounds pretty cool.
Ideas anyone? Vincent is, of course, strength. JT could be brains. And Catherine's ability could develop into the power to neutralize or turn off anyone's ability. Or maybe even rob that ability. So Catherine could absorb / acquire any super-power from another.
Just "spit balling" here, folks... (I'm not entirely serious - just in case anyone wonders)
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 21, 2015 12:40:54 GMT -5
Some have mentioned the setup - the possibility - that JT will develop some sort of power because of the serum that saved his life. Then there is also the suggestion that Catherine has this "Beast-Gem" power to calm anyone who is in Beast mode. Now all we need is for Tess to be given a "power" and instead of the Fab Four, we can have the "Fantastic Four". Are we ready for a team of crime-fighters, each with his own ability? If I remember my comic books, JT is a ringer for Ben Grimm, "The Thing", in size and shape (sort of). I can't begin to imagine a super-power for Tess but if she gets the new job, she'll be "Captain Vargas", which at least sounds pretty cool. Ideas anyone? Vincent is, of course, strength. JT could be brains. And Catherine's ability could develop into the power to neutralize or turn off anyone's ability. Or maybe even rob that ability. So Catherine could absorb / acquire any super-power from another. Just "spit balling" here, folks... (I'm not entirely serious - just in case anyone wonders) I know you're just spit balling and it's fun to imagine this band of super heroes, but in reality I wouldn't want any of those things to happen. Other than the Beast and the occasional supernatural foe, I think the others need to remain normal for the show to stay grounded and stay real. Cat's power over Vincent is really "love", so it's still a bit of a mystery to me why Alton gave into her at the same time Vincent did. She of all people must stay a normal human in my view, to keep the show aligned with the universal theme of Beauty and the Beast. If Tess does make captain, I'm not so sure how I'll like that. She really hasn't displayed strong leadership as far as I can recall. I am very curious to see what happens with JT. I wouldn't want him to develop a permanent super power. Whatever happens to him could also affect his personality, maybe for the worse, as it did with Tyler and Alton. So if JT does change, I hope he'll get changed back to normal before S3 is done.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 21, 2015 12:43:56 GMT -5
Some have mentioned the setup - the possibility - that JT will develop some sort of power because of the serum that saved his life. Then there is also the suggestion that Catherine has this "Beast-Gem" power to calm anyone who is in Beast mode. Now all we need is for Tess to be given a "power" and instead of the Fab Four, we can have the "Fantastic Four". Are we ready for a team of crime-fighters, each with his own ability? If I remember my comic books, JT is a ringer for Ben Grimm, "The Thing", in size and shape (sort of). I can't begin to imagine a super-power for Tess but if she gets the new job, she'll be "Captain Vargas", which at least sounds pretty cool. Ideas anyone? Vincent is, of course, strength. JT could be brains. And Catherine's ability could develop into the power to neutralize or turn off anyone's ability. Or maybe even rob that ability. So Catherine could absorb / acquire any super-power from another. Just "spit balling" here, folks... (I'm not entirely serious - just in case anyone wonders) I know you're just spit balling and it's fun to imagine this band of super heroes, but in reality I wouldn't want any of those things to happen. Other than the Beast and the occasional supernatural foe, I think the others need to remain normal for the show to stay grounded and stay real. Cat's power over Vincent is really "love", so it's still a bit of a mystery to me why Alton gave into her at the same time Vincent did. She of all people must stay a normal human in my view, to keep the show aligned with the universal theme of Beauty and the Beast. If Tess does make captain, I'm not so sure how I'll like that. She really hasn't displayed strong leadership as far as I can recall. I am very curious to see what happens with JT. I wouldn't want him to develop a permanent super power. Whatever happens to him could also affect his personality, maybe for the worse, as it did with Tyler and Alton. So if JT does change, I hope he'll get changed back to normal before S3 is done. agreed. regarding tess being the captain, i like the idea. yes in real life i could definitely not see her as the captain at all, but it could be good for the show because of the relationship dynamics...if they handled it well that is
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