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Post by jefferen on Aug 10, 2015 13:02:58 GMT -5
I am quite literally going through the Stages of Grief in relation to the Mass Exodus of BATB fans. I just don't get what the world is coming to. I went into silent mode to figure out if it was worth posting at all anymore, especially if I was unintentionally making someone else feel unwelcome. And came to the conclusion that others have come to that still remain: I love BATB. I love discussing it. I love arguing about it. I love expressing my opinion and learning the opinions of others. I love it when you guys convince me to change my opinion. Of course, I love it even more when I think I was right in the first place. BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE, I love the many diverse opinions of all, whether I agree or not. So I'm choosing to come back and post. But PLEASE understand my following DISCLAIMER: I am a lawyer by profession. So that naturally means that I argue my point most passionately. BUT I love ALL opinions and thoughts whether I agree with them or not. But understand that I may TRY to persuade you to my way of thinking. BUT I respect that you agree to disagree with me and probably love you all the more for choosing to quarrel with me about my opinion. Because it means you are at least thinking about what I have said and are giving me your thoughts on the subject. A lawyer must "zealously advocate" for their client and their position. That is ALL that I am trying to do. If I offend you, it is ENTIRELY UNINTENTIONAL. Please PLEASE let me know if I have accidentally stepped on toes so that I may apologize and better explain myself. With the above said, work is INSANE right now. And there are multiple episodes that I want to comment on. Will try to get to them as I am able. Still LOVE the forum and am glad there are many left to discuss all things BATB-related! ^^^^ ditto to what she said! I've missed you and your theories and opinions. You are in no way responsible for the mass exit of beasties. You have always been gracious with your posts & opinions and have shed light on a lot of small things that a lot of us missed. You are always giving us something new to think about, and despite not being happy sometimes with the show, you still love it (even at its worse). I admire that so much about you! And like I said you are always gracious, and kind when you post. You are truly a wonderful and dedicated person. Look forward to u posting again & hearing ur thoughts on the rest of the season! (Btw, I think u r gonna LOVE 310) how'd you like the last few episodes? xxo |
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 10, 2015 13:31:36 GMT -5
I am quite literally going through the Stages of Grief in relation to the Mass Exodus of BATB fans. I just don't get what the world is coming to. I went into silent mode to figure out if it was worth posting at all anymore, especially if I was unintentionally making someone else feel unwelcome. And came to the conclusion that others have come to that still remain: I love BATB. I love discussing it. I love arguing about it. I love expressing my opinion and learning the opinions of others. I love it when you guys convince me to change my opinion. Of course, I love it even more when I think I was right in the first place. BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE, I love the many diverse opinions of all, whether I agree or not. So I'm choosing to come back and post. But PLEASE understand my following DISCLAIMER: I am a lawyer by profession. So that naturally means that I argue my point most passionately. BUT I love ALL opinions and thoughts whether I agree with them or not. But understand that I may TRY to persuade you to my way of thinking. BUT I respect that you agree to disagree with me and probably love you all the more for choosing to quarrel with me about my opinion. Because it means you are at least thinking about what I have said and are giving me your thoughts on the subject. A lawyer must "zealously advocate" for their client and their position. That is ALL that I am trying to do. If I offend you, it is ENTIRELY UNINTENTIONAL. Please PLEASE let me know if I have accidentally stepped on toes so that I may apologize and better explain myself. With the above said, work is INSANE right now. And there are multiple episodes that I want to comment on. Will try to get to them as I am able. Still LOVE the forum and am glad there are many left to discuss all things BATB-related! ^^^^ ditto to what she said! I've missed you and your theories and opinions. You are in no way responsible for the mass exit of beasties. You have always been gracious with your posts & opinions and have shed light on a lot of small things that a lot of us missed. You are always giving us something new to think about, and despite not being happy sometimes with the show, you still love it (even at its worse). I admire that so much about you! And like I said you are always gracious, and kind when you post. You are truly a wonderful and dedicated person. Look forward to u posting again & hearing ur thoughts on the rest of the season! (Btw, I think u r gonna LOVE 310) how'd you like the last few episodes? xxo  What she said. Glad you're back alwayscrazedbatbfan, your posts have been sorely missed. I get why some are unhappy about certain elements of S3. I respect anyone's decision to leave. But at the same time, I love the show and love to discuss it too. It almost feels like when I was a kid, some other kids get their feelings hurt in the playground, take the ball home and decide not to play. Let's not have that happen here.  |
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Post by ebeline on Aug 10, 2015 17:15:05 GMT -5
alwayscrazedbatbfan I´m glad that you are back on posting modus. 
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Post by lovebatb on Aug 10, 2015 19:21:24 GMT -5
OH! What a great news!!! We have missed your posts!!!!  |
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Post by lovebatb on Aug 11, 2015 6:47:01 GMT -5
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Post by batb4evr1 on Aug 11, 2015 8:12:12 GMT -5
I am quite literally going through the Stages of Grief in relation to the Mass Exodus of BATB fans. I just don't get what the world is coming to. I went into silent mode to figure out if it was worth posting at all anymore, especially if I was unintentionally making someone else feel unwelcome. And came to the conclusion that others have come to that still remain: I love BATB. I love discussing it. I love arguing about it. I love expressing my opinion and learning the opinions of others. I love it when you guys convince me to change my opinion. Of course, I love it even more when I think I was right in the first place. BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE, I love the many diverse opinions of all, whether I agree or not. So I'm choosing to come back and post. But PLEASE understand my following DISCLAIMER: I am a lawyer by profession. So that naturally means that I argue my point most passionately. BUT I love ALL opinions and thoughts whether I agree with them or not. But understand that I may TRY to persuade you to my way of thinking. BUT I respect that you agree to disagree with me and probably love you all the more for choosing to quarrel with me about my opinion. Because it means you are at least thinking about what I have said and are giving me your thoughts on the subject. A lawyer must "zealously advocate" for their client and their position. That is ALL that I am trying to do. If I offend you, it is ENTIRELY UNINTENTIONAL. Please PLEASE let me know if I have accidentally stepped on toes so that I may apologize and better explain myself. With the above said, work is INSANE right now. And there are multiple episodes that I want to comment on. Will try to get to them as I am able. Still LOVE the forum and am glad there are many left to discuss all things BATB-related! My Beloved Beastie BFF, alwayscrazedbatbfan!!! I have missed you so so so much!!!  Can you feel how hard I am hugging you! I have been in silent mode due to heavy work load but what an outstanding event to greet me as I rejoin the DEN!!! |
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Post by daly1423 on Aug 11, 2015 15:26:30 GMT -5
I have been a long time lurker, but I am active I twitter and I think I can add something to this conversation. I think the major issue here is respect. Coming into forums or posting in private facebook groups about whatever you liked or didn't like about the show is not the problem. Some Beasties, myself included are upset at the tweets directed to the writers/actor or directors that are constantly complaining about the same thing over and over. I actually share a lot of the same opinion the VinCat moments from S1 are long gone as are Jen and Sherrie and I don't think they are coming back. That being said to tweet to actor/director directly and belittle what they do for a living, I do not agree with. Both Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath have addressed these types of tweets. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid......But a lot of us feel that taking those complaints to the actors/writer etc directly is disrespectful. It's a common response on twitter that "How will they know what we don't like if we don't tell them, or I have fought so hard for this show we deserve.... or the best is I am telling them in a respectful way what I don't like. News flash there is no respectful way to tell people you don't like what they are doing. Catherine Ashton left twitter and if we are all not careful Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath will to.... Bottom line is this. S3 is already complete and from Gillian Horvath's tweets the Powers that Be do think that what they are showing is romance so I don't see S4 changing all that much. Do I miss the VinCat from S1 you betcha I do.....Do I love this show and this season, absolutely. Do I constantly want to hear the same people making the same argument over and over......no, but as long as they don't involve the people who work really hard to put this show out there, I have no problem letting the rant and rave every week. We have to remember that the actors/writers and others directly involved with this show, are people with hearts and souls who love this show and are extremely proud of their work. How would it feel, if you were Austin Basis and were incredibly proud of the work you did on an episode only to go on twitter and hear that people hate Jt and T and its taking too much away from VinCat. Or Catherine Ashton who gave so much to beasties over the hiatus, getting inundated with tweets saying Cat is not sexy enough and they should bring back the designer from the beginning of S1.....We don't have to like what they are doing but we should at least respect them enough not to belittle the work they do in public. So by all means come to places like this and say those things, but don't think you can do so in public and not get called about it. Freedom of Speech does not me freedom from responsibility. Just because you can say it doesn't mean you should.
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Post by jefferen on Aug 11, 2015 16:18:02 GMT -5
I have been a long time lurker, but I am active I twitter and I think I can add something to this conversation. I think the major issue here is respect. Coming into forums or posting in private facebook groups about whatever you liked or didn't like about the show is not the problem. Some Beasties, myself included are upset at the tweets directed to the writers/actor or directors that are constantly complaining about the same thing over and over. I actually share a lot of the same opinion the VinCat moments from S1 are long gone as are Jen and Sherrie and I don't think they are coming back. That being said to tweet to actor/director directly and belittle what they do for a living, I do not agree with. Both Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath have addressed these types of tweets. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid......But a lot of us feel that taking those complaints to the actors/writer etc directly is disrespectful. It's a common response on twitter that "How will they know what we don't like if we don't tell them, or I have fought so hard for this show we deserve.... or the best is I am telling them in a respectful way what I don't like. News flash there is no respectful way to tell people you don't like what they are doing. Catherine Ashton left twitter and if we are all not careful Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath will to.... Bottom line is this. S3 is already complete and from Gillian Horvath's tweets the Powers that Be do think that what they are showing is romance so I don't see S4 changing all that much. Do I miss the VinCat from S1 you betcha I do.....Do I love this show and this season, absolutely. Do I constantly want to hear the same people making the same argument over and over......no, but as long as they don't involve the people who work really hard to put this show out there, I have no problem letting the rant and rave every week. We have to remember that the actors/writers and others directly involved with this show, are people with hearts and souls who love this show and are extremely proud of their work. How would it feel, if you were Austin Basis and were incredibly proud of the work you did on an episode only to go on twitter and hear that people hate Jt and T and its taking too much away from VinCat. Or Catherine Ashton who gave so much to beasties over the hiatus, getting inundated with tweets saying Cat is not sexy enough and they should bring back the designer from the beginning of S1.....We don't have to like what they are doing but we should at least respect them enough not to belittle the work they do in public. So by all means come to places like this and say those things, but don't think you can do so in public and not get called about it. Freedom of Speech does not me freedom from responsibility. Just because you can say it doesn't mean you should. Ditto! How many times can you say the same thing over & over again? And on top of that, if you are gonna criticize there is an appropriate way to do it, without sounding repititive, demanding, rude, know it-allish and completely unhappy, |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Aug 11, 2015 17:23:07 GMT -5
Daly1423 and Jefferen:
AMEN and Double Ditto.
And the thing is, the actors themselves oftentimes have little or no input whatsoever into the scripts unless they have a producer credit OR it is in their contract (the actor that played Luke on General Hospital had it in his contract that he could change his character's lines. And various heads of the show tried to change that over the years, but he kept it in. That is RARE for an actor to have the leverage to have this AND it cost him A LOT of money, bonuses, etc. to have that in his contract). So actors just have to make-do with what they have. So it isn't their fault anyways, and they could get fined a lot of money if they tried to protest a storyline they don't like.
And how would ANY of us feel if some complete stranger walked up to any one of us and said that we were not doing well on our job? People somehow think that freedom of speech means you can verbally attack and hurt people or that you have the right to say anything. And like Daly1423 says, just because you might have the LEGAL RIGHT to do something doesn't actually make it MORALLY right or even good sense of any kind to do so.
YES, I agree that there needs to be SOME way for shows to get input. But there IS. Posts and blogs can be informative, especially if there are a lot of comments related to the same thing. If you simply visit this Forum and read through the Season 3 posts, you would most likely think that the average Beasties watch BATB for the following: 1) VinCat scenes, 2) VinCat LOVE, as expressed through looks and vocalizations, 3) VinCat love as expressed through love scenes (meaning kissage and more, people!), 4) VinCat friends and how they interact with VinCat, 5) drama that affects the VinCat love. People might like the action sequences, but UNIVERSALLY, you can see people want OBVIOUS VinCat love-related issues to take precedence over anything else on the screen. So there are ways for the Headrunners to get a feel of what viewers want WITHOUT the need to feel like they are being attacked personally.
And to be quite frank, whenever has a message that has the affect of humiliating someone or making them feel bad EVER resulted in getting them to alter their behavior unless it was some kind of necessary Intervention-type thing? And there are even RULES for conducting a successful Intervention, so why wouldn't someone want a stop-gap or filter if, for no other reason, then to protect themselves? So I don't see what anyone gains by it.
In my profession, if someone walked into a courtroom and said to the Judge that said person did not like how the Judge ruled on such and such a case and that the Judge was bad, that person would basically find themselves in a jail cell for contempt of court. And people are quick to forget that such personal attacks can even result in 1) threatening/hostile-related court charges, 2) libel, and 3) slander, 4) harrassment, and 5) even potential hate-crime related even or 6) cyberbullying. And those things cost time and money to the person who unwittingly or foolishly posted. Which would certainly effect future employment opportunities. So YES, there is ADDITIONAL COST associated and risk that entails with not choosing one's words with care.
At least in the US right now, Negativity of this kind seems to rule. Donald Trump has made what many term to be offensive comments towards women and those from other countries/immigrants/illegal aliens. Yet he is leading in the polls with voters. Nothing he has said has been positive about how he would actually help people in the country, at least, not that has been televised and commented on. He is a wonderful businessman who has employed many individuals. I personally wish he would comment on THAT and how he would open up jobs and business opportunities for the country. However, that is not the focus of his campaign or what seems to score with the voters. So there you go. Attack Mode seems "in" right now as the best source of bullying or brow-beating someone into doing something. Not so sure how successful such a strategy is long-term.
HOWEVER, one thing to keep in mind is that this whole thing with the Fandom may actually have a unintentioned POSITIVE affect of getting more drama surrounding the show and get people curious enough to watch. IF for no other reason than to find out what the drama is about. And anyone watching VinCat, at least in my opinion, would WANT to see more of them AND see how they got to this point in the first place.
Anyone I have mentioned the show to has never heard of it. All this hoopla may actually drum up interest. And if people come to look, they often stay to buy as the old expression goes. And who could complain about that, especially if it keeps our show on the air?
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Post by batb4evr1 on Aug 12, 2015 8:47:37 GMT -5
I have been a long time lurker, but I am active I twitter and I think I can add something to this conversation. I think the major issue here is respect. Coming into forums or posting in private facebook groups about whatever you liked or didn't like about the show is not the problem. Some Beasties, myself included are upset at the tweets directed to the writers/actor or directors that are constantly complaining about the same thing over and over. I actually share a lot of the same opinion the VinCat moments from S1 are long gone as are Jen and Sherrie and I don't think they are coming back. That being said to tweet to actor/director directly and belittle what they do for a living, I do not agree with. Both Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath have addressed these types of tweets. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid......But a lot of us feel that taking those complaints to the actors/writer etc directly is disrespectful. It's a common response on twitter that "How will they know what we don't like if we don't tell them, or I have fought so hard for this show we deserve.... or the best is I am telling them in a respectful way what I don't like. News flash there is no respectful way to tell people you don't like what they are doing. Catherine Ashton left twitter and if we are all not careful Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath will to.... Bottom line is this. S3 is already complete and from Gillian Horvath's tweets the Powers that Be do think that what they are showing is romance so I don't see S4 changing all that much. Do I miss the VinCat from S1 you betcha I do.....Do I love this show and this season, absolutely. Do I constantly want to hear the same people making the same argument over and over......no, but as long as they don't involve the people who work really hard to put this show out there, I have no problem letting the rant and rave every week. We have to remember that the actors/writers and others directly involved with this show, are people with hearts and souls who love this show and are extremely proud of their work. How would it feel, if you were Austin Basis and were incredibly proud of the work you did on an episode only to go on twitter and hear that people hate Jt and T and its taking too much away from VinCat. Or Catherine Ashton who gave so much to beasties over the hiatus, getting inundated with tweets saying Cat is not sexy enough and they should bring back the designer from the beginning of S1.....We don't have to like what they are doing but we should at least respect them enough not to belittle the work they do in public. So by all means come to places like this and say those things, but don't think you can do so in public and not get called about it. Freedom of Speech does not me freedom from responsibility. Just because you can say it doesn't mean you should. And I'm sure the DEN says We Agree!!! I am so disappointed in humanity at large feeling when they feel that is it acceptable to display over-privileged disrespect by saying whatever one is thinking without filter. Certainly we all have a right to our own opinion but we do not have a moral or human right to express hurtful comments about others especially those who are working to entertain us. We all have gripes and dissatisfaction, this is human. We have friends to whom we, although tempered, can candidly share these feelings and SEO is the forum for loyal Beasties who realistically love, like or don't like some aspect of an episode. This is our environment to express ourselves that but always tactfully and respectfully. I cannot understand conveying hurtful comments when in communication with the actors, crew and/or a director of a show whom we profess to love or at best find entertaining. These actors love their fans and the support that they receive from them. They would never intentionally do anything to disappoint or hurt those who are loyal to them. |
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Post by jefferen on Aug 12, 2015 9:06:08 GMT -5
I have been a long time lurker, but I am active I twitter and I think I can add something to this conversation. I think the major issue here is respect. Coming into forums or posting in private facebook groups about whatever you liked or didn't like about the show is not the problem. Some Beasties, myself included are upset at the tweets directed to the writers/actor or directors that are constantly complaining about the same thing over and over. I actually share a lot of the same opinion the VinCat moments from S1 are long gone as are Jen and Sherrie and I don't think they are coming back. That being said to tweet to actor/director directly and belittle what they do for a living, I do not agree with. Both Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath have addressed these types of tweets. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid......But a lot of us feel that taking those complaints to the actors/writer etc directly is disrespectful. It's a common response on twitter that "How will they know what we don't like if we don't tell them, or I have fought so hard for this show we deserve.... or the best is I am telling them in a respectful way what I don't like. News flash there is no respectful way to tell people you don't like what they are doing. Catherine Ashton left twitter and if we are all not careful Austin Basis and Gillian Horvath will to.... Bottom line is this. S3 is already complete and from Gillian Horvath's tweets the Powers that Be do think that what they are showing is romance so I don't see S4 changing all that much. Do I miss the VinCat from S1 you betcha I do.....Do I love this show and this season, absolutely. Do I constantly want to hear the same people making the same argument over and over......no, but as long as they don't involve the people who work really hard to put this show out there, I have no problem letting the rant and rave every week. We have to remember that the actors/writers and others directly involved with this show, are people with hearts and souls who love this show and are extremely proud of their work. How would it feel, if you were Austin Basis and were incredibly proud of the work you did on an episode only to go on twitter and hear that people hate Jt and T and its taking too much away from VinCat. Or Catherine Ashton who gave so much to beasties over the hiatus, getting inundated with tweets saying Cat is not sexy enough and they should bring back the designer from the beginning of S1.....We don't have to like what they are doing but we should at least respect them enough not to belittle the work they do in public. So by all means come to places like this and say those things, but don't think you can do so in public and not get called about it. Freedom of Speech does not me freedom from responsibility. Just because you can say it doesn't mean you should. And I'm sure the DEN says We Agree!!! I am so disappointed in humanity at large feeling when they feel that is it acceptable to display over-privileged disrespect by saying whatever one is thinking without filter. Certainly we all have a right to our own opinion but we do not have a moral or human right to express hurtful comments about others especially those who are working to entertain us. We all have gripes and dissatisfaction, this is human. We have friends to whom we, although tempered, can candidly share these feelings and SEO is the forum for loyal Beasties who realistically love, like or don't like some aspect of an episode. This is our environment to express ourselves that but always tactfully and respectfully. I cannot understand conveying hurtful comments when in communication with the actors, crew and/or a director of a show whom we profess to love or at best find entertaining. These actors love their fans and the support that they receive from them. They would never intentionally do anything to disappoint or hurt those who are loyal to them. . I think a lot of people in the fandom have a thinking towards the line that they are the ambassadors for the show and that they think and speak for all beasties or atleast the majority of them and in that role they think they can say and do whatever they want. And bring into fault for them not liking or enjoying the show whoever they want actors other beasties...whoever. Imo sometimes I feel like it gets to the point that if you speak out or have a different opinion, you are belittled or made to feel like your opinion is wrong especially by some people that feel like they are the "ambassadors" so to speak of the show. (Sometimes I feel like it's a bit of a cult in a way) when in reality it's no ones fault but maybe their own or it's something that only that specific viewer can fix. All just how I see it & my opinion:) |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Aug 16, 2015 19:56:06 GMT -5
Jefferen,
I think you hit on the heart of the matter. Many fans, due to their contributions of power voting and campaigns and twitter and the like, can feel that they are ambassadors to the show. The problem with that is that even ambassadors have duties and certain obligations to not harm those they reportedly represent. And ambassadors don't get to start wars and the like. Again, all about responsibility (and sometimes even plain common sense and tact).
I'm deeply saddened that it has gotten ugly to the point that anyone feels unwelcome for whatever reason. But this is spilling over to actors and people feeling actually attacked, it seems, in what they do for their careers. It hurts us not just for the legal and moral implications but also when we cease getting information from sources willing to give it to us prior to feeling alienated due to possibly inappropriate comments. Technology can giveth, and technology can taketh away, depending on the responsibilities of the poster and recipient.
This also affects campaigns to keep the show on the air, potentially. We really need Beasties roaring together at the appropriate times in order to a) ensure we get Season 4 in the end without it being cancelled due to perceived lack of interest and b) get a Season 5. I'm wondering if the numbers are worth it to the CW for continued Summer viewing. If they can put reality shows or other stuff in for cheaper AND get more viewers, then business will dictate what they do.
I know that networks are doing press for upcoming fall seasons, so has there been anything from the CW regarding how they have felt about summer programming adn whether or not it will continue?
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Post by texasscotian on Aug 16, 2015 23:40:31 GMT -5
Jefferen, I think you hit on the heart of the matter. Many fans, due to their contributions of power voting and campaigns and twitter and the like, can feel that they are ambassadors to the show. The problem with that is that even ambassadors have duties and certain obligations to not harm those they reportedly represent. And ambassadors don't get to start wars and the like. Again, all about responsibility (and sometimes even plain common sense and tact). I'm deeply saddened that it has gotten ugly to the point that anyone feels unwelcome for whatever reason. But this is spilling over to actors and people feeling actually attacked, it seems, in what they do for their careers. It hurts us not just for the legal and moral implications but also when we cease getting information from sources willing to give it to us prior to feeling alienated due to possibly inappropriate comments. Technology can giveth, and technology can taketh away, depending on the responsibilities of the poster and recipient. This also affects campaigns to keep the show on the air, potentially. We really need Beasties roaring together at the appropriate times in order to a) ensure we get Season 4 in the end without it being cancelled due to perceived lack of interest and b) get a Season 5. I'm wondering if the numbers are worth it to the CW for continued Summer viewing. If they can put reality shows or other stuff in for cheaper AND get more viewers, then business will dictate what they do. I know that networks are doing press for upcoming fall seasons, so has there been anything from the CW regarding how they have felt about summer programming adn whether or not it will continue? Mark Pedowitz recently stated that BATB, will continue as a Summer show. He says that he is very pleased with JR & KK"s performances. So... sigh... Summer it shall continue to be... he couldn't make any promises about a 5th season.. says he will have to see how it goes ratings wise, etc., that it is too early to say. At least we know we have a 4th season coming. |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Aug 16, 2015 23:57:23 GMT -5
While I dislike having only 13 episodes a year, I will take that over nothing. So as long as there is a chance of further seasons, I'm thrilled. WHile I have missed certain VinCat passion issues this season, I'm thrilled with how it appears to be coming together. So a shorter season means less plot threads left wide open and under-used or ill-used potential bad guys. There are definitely some pros to having to use all of your screentime. HOWEVER, the biggest con, in my opinion, is that CHARACTER-moments get shafted due to having so little time. With 22 episodes, you have TIME to see passion and the occasion diversion/plot-free but character driven episode.
I had already figured, based on the ratings, that BATB would be hopelessly bound to the summertime. But again, I'll take what I can get. Better summertime and 13 episodes compared with nothing at all.
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Post by texasscotian on Aug 17, 2015 0:59:52 GMT -5
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What she said. Glad you're back 
Can you feel how hard I am hugging you! 
