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Post by katiebeast S3 <3 on Sept 23, 2014 2:47:14 GMT -5
This is the first rewatch I could do together with you guys, and what do you know? I fall asleep! And not because of the episode, but because I don't sleep enough lately, so that when I sit down to rest I immediately dose off . Anyway, I liked the episode. Or at least the part I was awake for. I liked strong Cat, I liked hurt and angry V, I loved to dislike Tori's clinging attitude, I liked Gab's concern, I liked Dana. I liked the way Kristin and Jay portrayed the hurt, and the anger, they are going through. I really did. It was a painfull episode for my VinCat heart, but I thought it was a good episode none the less. I know this is not really a popular opinion Maybe I'll be able to stay awake tonight for long enough to watch the rest of the episode, so I can give a more founded opinion .
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 23, 2014 4:13:08 GMT -5
Love how they portray Cat as not really being over V. She says she is but its obvious shes not actually that is one thing realistic in this episode ! its only 2 weeks past and grief has its stages , she did loss someone so dearest and special to her , someone she was going to have a future with him even if she had to give up everything to make that future with him happens ! someone she went throw hell for three month to find him and refused to accept that she lost him ! so if she now in a few days is over him and completely and easily accept the loss and say (Vincent who ) ?! that tells what about her character ? that she is a strong independent woman ?! sorry but NO ! most of the members here are women , very strong women if i must say , so please tell me if (God forbidden) you lost someone you truly loved would it be easy and fast to move on without passing throw the grief's stages ? it doesn't matter how did you loss that person because the result is the same , so who can that fast and easy get over that lost isn't strong independent woman but simply heartless <edited> her love for that person was all a lie ! so at lest they didn't make Cat one of those ! the same about Vincent frozen on his place when he saw her kissing Patric and bringing it from no where in the conversation with both JT and Cat ! yes at lest they are still human being not a machine robots would just press a button to forget and move on ! any thing else about this episode is off for me ! that is why there is no way in hell i would rewatch it ! actually i never have the chance to rewatch any ep with you because of the time zone , i don't even know what time in my local time the party starts ? all i know is i go to bed after 2.00am and it doesn't start et and wake up hours later and it finishes ! --- but i used to read all your post and sometime rewatch the episode alone if i can take it of course , but sure not this time ! one thing more i like and hate in the same time about that ep ? Cat helped Patric escaped ?! i liked because its something Cat could do when she is herself ?! yes law is not holy for Cat but justice is ! and some time mercy even beat justice for her ! no wonder here she saw how the law couldn't get her mother or Vincent their justice from Mirfield ?! she also sees the good inside the people and believes those who have good inside them deserve another chance ! she did it before not only with Vincent but with some of her cases , she didn't always did everything throw the system or by the book but she does it by her way if she think its right ! so its good to see her acts like her good old self again ! but in the same time it really pissed me off because Patric no matter his reasons were still his brother's partner in his crimes , so in the law's eyes he is a criminal too ? so now she helps a criminal she just met escapes but when it comes to Vincent she shot him in his gut because he tried to take the justice into his hand ?!! that means she didn't shot him to do the right thing or to apply the law but she did because she is mad he didn't choose her over his beast side !!! wow ! that give her the right to be mad of him but sure didn't give her the right to shot him ? especially shot for kill like she did ! i believed her then but when she did that with Patric it was the first time i saw how some time Cat could be hypocrite ! and in the next episodes every time she gives us Gabe's speech about doing things by the book and don't take the matter of justice into our own hands because that the different between humans and beasts !! i said yes right like you never did that before ? cut this hypocrite <edited> out and just shut up now ! i want to talk also about the poor choices they made as their rebounds and how gabrine and toricent are very similar in every way but this post is getting so long and i have somethings to do with Sara --- so to be continue
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rose
Army Recruit
Posts: 133
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Post by rose on Sept 23, 2014 6:30:44 GMT -5
Ancestors is not one of my favourite episodes. Everything seems to be going wrong in this episode. Even JT's comments about Vincent-Tori connection annoy me. And I agree cat's personality in the next few episodes is really annoying when she agrees with everything Gabe says and start reciting Gabe's speech over and over. I find that hard to listen to. However I am not sure that Cat should have stood by and allowed Vincent to kill her father in cold blood. How does one recover from witnessing your boyfriend kill your father especially when there is another option. I think Cat had to make a difficult choice and she only had seconds to do it. The outcome of that choice would likely have an impact to the rest of their lives.
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 23, 2014 7:05:20 GMT -5
OK here we go ! part of my problem with the stupid triangles was the poor choices they made when they choose Gabe and Tori as their rebounds ! well technically Vincent had no other choice but Tori ! it isn't like there was another woman or another shebeast who was interested in jumping into his relation with Cat to ruin it than jumping in to replace her in his bed ! but still poor choice because since the turkey drama he knew how she maximize his beast side over his human one , he even did say to her to stay away because there is some thing in her effects him badly , yet he said it again to her in ep 12 ( there is some thing in you effects the way i think and the way i feel ) like he just realized it now ? sorry bro you did know it since day one and anyone in his right mind would know nothing good can come out of this but he still went for it ? maybe because he wasn't in his right mind ? yes he did give up to his beast side and nothing is matter to him any more , so why not given up to Tori too ? in fact she was convenient to him because he just cut off his connection with his human side and decided to focus on his beast side , so he needed his beast full power , therefore anything or anyone maximize his beast power is convenient to him in this point ! not that Tori was a victim or that he took advantage of her , hell NO ! she knew exactly what she got herself in ! in fact she was the one who started it and took the first move just like Cat was the one to take the first move to make gabrine happened ! when Tori kissed him in ep7 i don't think it was an animals pull she had no control over it she knew exactly what she was doing she wants him for herself and the fact that he had a girlfriend ( or some one special as he said) that didn't stop her ! she saw what happened on dinner and knew there were troubles in paradise and took advantage of it ! otherwise why that kiss didn't happen in episode 6 ? she was a beast then and she had the power to case both V and her father to go crazy and beast out against their well ? but the difference is she didn't know she is a beast too then , so she would never consider having anything to do with a beast like Vincent , not while she had all the options in the world ! but when she knew she is a beast everything changed , now she has no other option but Vincent ! as she said in ep12 she had no one else , no family , no friends ! i had pity for her because of that and because she just wanted what every body wants in life ? not to be alone in this big world , to have some one in our life who understands and accepts us the way we are ! but her fault was to want that on other people's expensive , to want it although she knew there was no basic of love to build a relation , that someone's heart belongs to someone else ! any way in spite the fact that she asked for this relation she wasn't the upper hand on it ? Vincent was ! he was the one who have the final say in the decisions they made ! and Tori was the one who had to accept and obey because she didn't want to do anything jeopardize that fragile relation just like when Cat turned into Gabe's yes girl because she was afraid to disagree with him for another reason of course , Tori did as Vincent said because she didn't want to loss him because she had no one but him ! and Cat obeyed Gabe because she was afraid of facing her own feeling ! as i said both relation were the same for many reasons : 1- they both were rebound relations with no love involved ! 2- they both started and ended because of a third part ? Vincent got with Tori because Cat broke up with him and start to reject her once he reconnected with Cat ! i believe he would eventually break up with her if she stayed alive because he finally saw the light ! --- and Cat stared a relation with Gabe because she was afraid to go back to Vincent while his beast could took over him again , once she was sure he changed and that wouldn't happen she dumped Gabe in 2 seconds ! 3- they both was a poor choice ! i mentioned why Tori was poor choice for V , it is still his choice in spite Tori's role in it ! because if he choose to hold on what he had with Cat he would stay the hell away from Tori and get closer to Cat and his human side instead and didn't make the poor choice he made in ep 8 ! --- and Cat to choose Gabe between all men on the earth as her rebound ? what the hell ?! even if she broke up with Vincent how on earth she accept to replace him with the one who kidnapped her and tried to kill him for the most selfish reasons ?! and what exactly did Gabe do in this point to redeem himself ? other than did his job and brought her coffee ? he didn't even apologize to Vincent nether tried to make up for that to him ! if you really want to make up for your mistakes you would do it to the one you hurt most without expecting anything in return , right ? not to be nice and apologize to the woman he liked and wanted her for himself ! he did apologize to V in ep13 because if it wasn't for him Cat wouldn't give him that chance , he tried to keep pretend to be the nice guy and in the next ep he went back to his manipulation and tried to make her cut him out of her life ! --- i know he was always there to take advantage of her vulnerability but still she could think and do better specially for someone the show makers describe as our north poll ! 4- in both relations the two part were not equal ! the man was controlling the woman in it and have the final say and the woman shut up and obey for the wrong reasons ! any way despite how wrong both Gabe or Tori were for V&C they were useful in some way : Tori was useful for Vincent in her death in a way she never was in her life ? her death was his wake up call ,despite the fact that he didn't love her but he felt pity for her because she born a beast and didn't choose it , he felt responsible for her , so to cause her death by his choice ? and knowing it could be someone whom he cares for more like JT or Cat , yes that was his wake up call and the realization that choose his beast side was never the right choice ! and Gabe ? well we saw how his short relation with Cat then dumped him returned him to his bad nature ! well still all that could be establish without those meaningless stupid relations !
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Post by jefferen on Sept 23, 2014 8:39:03 GMT -5
This is the first rewatch I could do together with you guys, and what do you know? I fall asleep! And not because of the episode, but because I don't sleep enough lately, so that when I sit down to rest I immediately dose off . Anyway, I liked the episode. Or at least the part I was awake for. I liked strong Cat, I liked hurt and angry V, I loved to dislike Tori's clinging attitude, I liked Gab's concern, I liked Dana. I liked the way Kristin and Jay portrayed the hurt, and the anger, they are going through. I really did. It was a painfull episode for my VinCat heart, but I thought it was a good episode none the less. I know this is not really a popular opinion Maybe I'll be able to stay awake tonight for long enough to watch the rest of the episode, so I can give a more founded opinion . That is probably one of the best things about this episode and why I can enjoy it. Most underrated actors ever
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 23, 2014 9:42:12 GMT -5
However I am not sure that Cat should have stood by and allowed Vincent to kill her father in cold blood. How does one recover from witnessing your boyfriend kill your father especially when there is another option. I think Cat had to make a difficult choice and she only had seconds to do it. The outcome of that choice would likely have an impact to the rest of their lives. of course not ! killing Reynolds in V's hand never was the right choice despite everything he did , even V came to this realization later ! and that isn't because he is her father , because he isn't ? he choose not to be her father from the beginning , he only remembers he is her father when he wants to control her life ! but we are not discuss Reynolds now , so to return to Cat letting V kill him in her watch ? never was an option , but sure there was a way to stop Vincent without shooting him in his gut a killing shot while she knew he can't heal himself anymore ?! when ep8 first aired i thought like you said she panic because she only had seconds to react , that is why she didn't shot a warning shot in his arm or leg for example , but after ep10 when she told Patric they have a little time before the cops come ( or something like that ) i thought : wow she could act fast under pressure ? and i remembered she is a cop ! and people like cops or doctors are training to react fast and correct under pressure or else God help the people they deal with ! and even after shooting him she acted like it isn't a big deal ! she waited till next day to check if he is ok ? she was even surprised when she found out he isn't and could die ! what do you expect Cat ? you shot him a deadly shot in the gut ! i asked myself a question : would she do the same if their relationship was in a good term ? if it isn't on the stick ? if he didn't had to choose between her and anything else ?! my answer was NO ! she would find another way in that case , i also remembered how after what he did to her in episode 2 she turned him to Gabe ?! Gabe between all people ?! in ep4 she still had doubt in his motives and even in ep13 she still doubted him but yet because she was mad at Vincent and disappointed in him she turned to Gabe to deal with him risking him to hurt him again ?! so i came to a realization that Cat never was objective when it came to V , it depended on how things are going on between them , if things are ok she could risk her life for him , but if not ? if she is mad or disappointed on him she could do things could risk his life even subconsciously ! maybe her subconscious tries to hurt him like he hurts her ! another realization i had : that our beauty sometime acts in a hypocrite way ! not just because she shot V because he wanted to take the justice into his own hand while she did the same thing in many occasions but look what she did in ep14 when she asked him to beast out to catch Sam's beast and of course to save her rebound guy precious life after all that happened ?! ok why didn't she do it by the book and throw the system ? and most important how dared she after that in ep15 to keep repeat Gabe's speech about the difference between beasts and humans and the importance of doing things by the book ! that because simply she acts hypocrite sometime and goes by the book only when its convenient to her ! ok no one is perfect and i came to terms to accept that about Cat , and i wish Gabe's bad effect on her had something to do with that and now while he is gone she would do better and have fixed principles don't change whenever it suits her !
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Sept 24, 2014 10:27:24 GMT -5
Well it seems that Cat was ready to Kiss anyone on line this episode! She was being a lip <edited> lol.. just kidding. Okay come on I know I'm gonna get hell for that ...tell me how Vincent locked lips with Tori. She kissed 2 different guys 3 times in one episode. OUT OF CHARACTER MUCH? And slime ball vincent? Who are you? Hence why I don't watch this episode lol Well he started it, and we all know that he wasn't just locking lips with Tori. Turnabout is fair play as far as I'm concerned. Tori was effectively living at the houseboat with him by this time. Talk about disgusting. I think Ancestors is really ugly too, as far as S2 BATB episodes go, but I think at this point Catherine can kiss whoever she wants to. Especially given that Vincent kissed Tori for the first time within a couple of hours of Vincent and Catherine being in bed together at her father's house. Or at least, that is how I interpreted that particular scene... As for Patrick, she was kissing him so as not to blow her cover. Period. We may not have liked it, but there it is. At the very least, they had some chemistry, something that was entirely lacking between all of the other third party relationships that went on in S2. I may not have liked this episode, actually I hated it, like most of S2, but the only redeeming quality is that Catherine (in this episode) had chemistry with someone besides Vincent. A little chemistry is the minimum required if you are going to make your audience sit through months of really stupid love triangles. I liked the little flirtation with Patrick. Especially given that Vincent was pretty much banging Tori this entire time. I'm not condoning two wrongs making a right or anything, I would not have had ANY love triangles, but the writers went there. It was a freaking waste of a season, but if you are going to go there... Anyway, I could swallow Catherine kissing Patrick a lot more than Gabe. That is all I'm saying.
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Post by tenshi on Sept 24, 2014 11:42:13 GMT -5
Actually I liked ancestors. Like SpydancerLovesVincat I think too that Catherine was kissing Patrick at the bar just because of her cover. She didn't wanted Vincent to talk to her and she knew very well that this would piss him off. The jealousy in Vincents glance showed for me, that there was still Love. Thats why I loved this particular scene - and for the music. Also the fight between Catherine and Vincent at the russian embassy was oozing with chemisty - all sparks and flames of jealousy in each glance - for me wonderfull!
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Post by jefferen on Sept 24, 2014 11:50:30 GMT -5
Actually I liked ancestors. Like SpydancerLovesVincat I think too that Catherine was kissing Patrick at the bar just because of her cover. She didn't wanted Vincent to talk to her and she knew very well that this would piss him off. The jealousy in Vincents glance showed for me, that there was still Love. Thats why I loved this particular scene - and for the music. Also the fight between Catherine and Vincent at the russian embassy was oozing with chemisty - all sparks and flames of jealousy in each glance - for me wonderfull! I think it was a little bit of not blowing her cover and inwardly trying to make V jealous a bit even if she couldn't admit it to herself. But in all fairness I think Cat did like Patrick a little bit since she kissed him again right before she left after telling Patrick to run before the FBI/Cops were onto him
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Post by tenshi on Sept 24, 2014 15:45:26 GMT -5
Actually I liked ancestors. Like SpydancerLovesVincat I think too that Catherine was kissing Patrick at the bar just because of her cover. She didn't wanted Vincent to talk to her and she knew very well that this would piss him off. The jealousy in Vincents glance showed for me, that there was still Love. Thats why I loved this particular scene - and for the music. Also the fight between Catherine and Vincent at the russian embassy was oozing with chemisty - all sparks and flames of jealousy in each glance - for me wonderfull! I think it was a little bit of not blowing her cover and inwardly trying to make V jealous a bit even if she couldn't admit it to herself. But in all fairness I think Cat did like Patrick a little bit since she kissed him again right before she left after telling Patrick to run before the FBI/Cops were onto him Imo you're right about Cat and Patrick. She liked him. But it didn't botter me that she kissed him again. For me that kiss wasn't passionate at all. I think it was like kissing a friend farewell.
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Post by jefferen on Sept 24, 2014 17:44:36 GMT -5
I think it was a little bit of not blowing her cover and inwardly trying to make V jealous a bit even if she couldn't admit it to herself. But in all fairness I think Cat did like Patrick a little bit since she kissed him again right before she left after telling Patrick to run before the FBI/Cops were onto him Imo you're right about Cat and Patrick. She liked him. But it didn't botter me that she kissed him again. For me that kiss wasn't passionate at all. I think it was like kissing a friend farewell. Compared to how she kisses V, that definitely wasn't a passionate kiss. LOL
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 25, 2014 10:30:43 GMT -5
one more thing i hated about this episode ! as if there is anything i could possibly like about it i hated that they deleted the V & T's kiss i can't believe i just said that but really i hated the childish treatment they gave us when they deleted it ! i know the whole stupid triangles were a teenage treatment ! not to us ( first season's audiences ) they targeted new audiences ? the CW regular audiences : Teenagers ! ( no offense its correct statistically that most of CW's viewers are teenagers ) so they made those stupid triangles , add more actions in romance's expensive , they even casted a new chick for the males teenagers ! and they intended to make many scenes with V&C rolling sheets with others (puke)but unfortunately for them those new audiences never came and they had to face consequences and deal with us ! so what did they do ?! they treated us like if we are children and kept assure us those triangles wouldn't happened ?! remembered all the interviews and what they said ? ( Gabe is just a possibility for Cat , Vincent sees Tori as his little sister , Cat is always in his mind ---- blah blah ) and then in ep12 oops ! guess what torecint really happened and gabrine will happen too but be optimistic and look at the big picture ! be patient and you will be reward !! like if they deal with children ? ! and i really hated it if you took the decision to change the show direction risking losing your basic audiences for the sake of other expected audiences you have to have the courage to deal with consequences ? either they cut this whole storyline out and cancel those triangles or be brave and put it complete ! i think we had the right to know when exactly did toricent happen and under what terms ? were they like gabrine not exclusive , and sleeping with other people aren't count as cheating because Tori didn't have a ring on her finger and didn't even accept V's key like Cat with Gabe ?! wait a second Tori lived with V on this houseboat that means she did had her key ?! so did that mean they were in a serious exclusive relationship where sleeping around isn't an option ?! i am confuse and i shouldn't because they are commuted to us as a viewers to make everything clear instead of treating us like children then letting everybody analyses and assumes things the way they wanted ! wow i just realized i talked about the most hateful episode for me than i talked about the episodes i like ?! that is what i do even in real life , when i am satisfied and content i am in awe silence and hardly speak -- but when i am mad ? oh God ! no one can shut me up !
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Post by Windflwr on Sept 28, 2014 0:29:15 GMT -5
So Rebecca was helping Scotland Yard in 1836, but in 2x22 opens up in 1854, so what was Rebecca doing for 18 years and how old was she when she was helping Scotland Yard? So many answered questions and a bit of continuity issues I had to rewatch this episode today (much to my despair) for research for my fanfic and noticed this for the first time, too! Total continuity problem. They are ending their relationship in New York in 1954 but she was helping Scotland Yard in London 18 years before.... Lol. No wonder S2 was such a mess. They were literally rewriting storylines with each ep. Arghhh. I did like a few scenes in this episode, though, I have to admit. It wasn't all bad....
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 28, 2014 5:25:12 GMT -5
So Rebecca was helping Scotland Yard in 1836, but in 2x22 opens up in 1854, so what was Rebecca doing for 18 years and how old was she when she was helping Scotland Yard? So many answered questions and a bit of continuity issues I had to rewatch this episode today (much to my despair) for research for my fanfic and noticed this for the first time, too! Total continuity problem. They are ending their relationship in New York in 1954 but she was helping Scotland Yard in London 18 years before.... Lol. No wonder S2 was such a mess. They were literally rewriting storylines with each ep. Arghhh. it seems dear Ladies that no one of the writers or the showmakers pay much attention to those details like beasties do lol i think if some one asked them about that they would be confused and i can imagine them said something like that to each others 1836 or 1954 ? -- London or New York ? what's big deal ?! its enough for them to know it was in the ancient past ! it isn't like its a real history of real people ! wow those beasties are the hardest to deal with ! they notice every single tiny thing and they don't let anything go !) sure we are , and we like ourselves this way , so deal with this better than you do maybe team work between the writers team and paying more attention to details would be a good idea for S3 !
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 28, 2014 12:54:13 GMT -5
This is the first rewatch I could do together with you guys, and what do you know? I fall asleep! And not because of the episode, but because I don't sleep enough lately, so that when I sit down to rest I immediately dose off . Anyway, I liked the episode. Or at least the part I was awake for. I liked strong Cat, I liked hurt and angry V, I loved to dislike Tori's clinging attitude, I liked Gab's concern, I liked Dana. I liked the way Kristin and Jay portrayed the hurt, and the anger, they are going through. I really did. It was a painfull episode for my VinCat heart, but I thought it was a good episode none the less. I know this is not really a popular opinion Maybe I'll be able to stay awake tonight for long enough to watch the rest of the episode, so I can give a more founded opinion . That is probably one of the best things about this episode and why I can enjoy it. Most underrated actors ever I've been on the fence on whether to post in this thread, knowing that this episode is unpopular with many and makes some folks really upset. But seeing that I'm not alone in not hating this episode, here goes nothing... I like this episode quite a bit. If one can put aside that the "ship" is sailing in the wrong direction, it's a very entertaining hour (ehem 43 minutes) of TV. Even when Cat & Vincent are "trying" to be mean to each other, their "pull" is too strong and I can just see the love regardless of their words and actions. Kristin and Jay just act so well together that the episode works for me. The part I didn't like was Cat kissing Gabe at the end. But I just rewatched it again last week and I feel differently about the kiss now. To me, it's more of a peck to say "thank you, you trusted me", so I don't even mind that kiss at the end now.
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