dwayne1111
Army Recruit
The art of leadership is saying no, not yes. It is very easy to say yes. (Tony Blair)
Posts: 183
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Post by dwayne1111 on Oct 15, 2016 13:31:14 GMT -5
Too bad that the beast does not speak French and therefore cannot work in his profession. Also, all of his documents are in the name of Vincent Keller. Of course, since they obviously falsified all of Catherine's documents (school records, college degrees, law school she supposedly went to, etc.) in order for her to have her previous education recognized and fast-track her to become a lawyer, what does it matter if they fake the beast's credentials, too, so he can work as a doctor, once he has mastered the French language. No problem, of course in BATB land it should take him all of 2-3 months - TOPS. You are right, the beast can not speak French, but he was able to make it sound like French, it was funny. French is not an easy language to learn, but of cause in BATB Land the time does not matter as a lot of other things too.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Oct 16, 2016 15:18:33 GMT -5
So, I am little confused who was Grace Rose source? May be Braxton but not sure. It would be really nice if someone explained the whole season 4 plot. It was so confusing. And after thinking a lot about s4 ending I am finally ok with it. Because if you think about it even if all the problems went away it doesn't make any sense for them to stay in NY. 409 made it clear that normal was lost, they wouldn't get their job back. The endend exactly how it could end in season 1, back in 122 they were suposed to use fake id and live in somewhere else. Like Cat said there will be sacrifices no matter what. Atleast they are thoghter and happy plus their friends and family know where they are. It would take a genius or a mad person to explain certain aspects of the plot in S4, but in the end it would be futile, because many things in there CANNOT be explained and just have to be accepted - or NOT. Or you have to fill in the blanks and make up your own story and your own explanation. Grace said she had sources both at DHS and at Graydal and we NEVER found out who they were. Just another one of the threads that were dropped, never to be discussed again. That is nothing new to this show - although there are many shows out there who do exactly the same thing on a weekly basis and only some people even notice. I just rewatched Operation Fake Date on my British channel and was reminded AGAIN of the many plot holes in that single episode. And here they also introduced something we NEVER hear about again. Vincent is wearing this powerful little gadget around his wrist which gives the nerdy scientist complete control over him - to the point of knocking him out. Later Vincent remembers that they took his blood and cut a strand of his hair, but in S3, when Liam tells him that DHS has his blood in this vault, he does not remember how they came by it. Liam later even admitted to having lied about DHS having his blood, only it was not a lie at all because they DID have it. And Vincent should have sensed that Liam is lying to him, and, and, and. Like BeastieBoy says: better NOT to open these cans of worms and try to explain everything rationally or logically and just accept that it is what it is. Still, I do not like the ending in Paris and would have preferred their 'Denver life' or at least an English-speaking country.... Yeah, I try to not let all the plot holes bother me. There are so many that my brain will explode if I think too hard! But actually, I was really enjoying all of these open questions, like who was Grace Rose's source and who was the real big bad etc. In fact, I felt episode 1-9 were all very enjoyable, to the point where I let my own expectations get the better of me. The following questions in my own mind were very intriguing: - Who was the real big bad? I had hoped it might be a resurrected Evan or someone else tied to S1 to bring things full circle. - Who was Grace's source? Again, I had hoped for somebody tied to Muirfield. But it was never clarified, anyone's guess is as good as mine. - I had thought that the synthetic adrenaline shots given to V was behind his aggressive and sometimes questionable behavior. But I guess it wasn't after all. - I wondered why Cat was suddenly drinking tea in one of the latter eps, seemed like the writers were going somewhere with that. But again, no closure on this one either. etc. etc. etc... I had high hopes that many of the plot holes and unanswered questions from 1 to 9 would be answered in 10-13. I was really looking forward to some big reveals. Disappointingly, it just didn't happen as I had hoped. I kind of felt that all the momentum that had been building up from 401 until 409 "The Getaway", was lost with 410 & 411. There was so much potential that just never materialized in the final arc of S4. Braxton being the big bad was a let down for me. What was the point of him putting up the beast bounty in 401? If there were no super beasts gone wild, what was the point of capturing Vincent? If he simply wanted to eliminate the last beast, he could have done it once V was captured, but he didn't. Why did he need to frame V? Braxton was already presumed dead, so he could have just fled at that point. The whole Braxton story just doesn't make sense to me. Which is a shame, because much of S4 was really good IMHO, it's just the final arc kind of fell flat for me. Nevertheless, I was satisfied and happy with 12 & 13 in the way the eps made me feel (vs. the storyline itself), so I felt the series ended well enough.
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Post by bbatb on Oct 17, 2016 4:21:24 GMT -5
I really like your way of looking at things in this show BeastieBoy . Maybe this kind of serenity comes with having watched many other US shows - and cared about them - like for example Smallville. When I hear you guys discussing SV, I get the feeling that you really liked it, but that it had so many flaws and plotholes and unsatisfying plotlines that it takes a 'hardened' fan to continue watching. I have NEVER gotten involved with ANY show as much as I have with this one, so surely that is the reason that my tolerance threshold for nonsense is so low and I have such a hard time 'forgiving' all the crap that is presented here. Yes, I take things personally too often and in S2, I was totally frustrated how my favorite character was presented as being weak, confused, borderline insane, indecisive, morally questionable, submissive, snarky, mean - I just felt insulted as a woman to have Catherine portrayed in this manner. Completely my personal impression, of course, because I get very defensive when women are shown in that light on tv or anywhere else. As for your analysis of S4, I can wholeheartedly agree: Braxton's motives were murky, Hill's motives were even more obscure. Maybe what Pippin said was correct: they changed course in the middle of the stream and tried to go into another direction alltogether. That maybe why Vincent's gruff behavior was never explained and why we were suddenly presented with a cabal, no new beast, a senseless plot and a rushed ending. I don't think that I will ever be happy with THAT ending, because it is just too much to swallow - even for BATB standards. The French are in uproar regarding terrorist threats and living in Paris under a false identity with a fake and falsified background is the height of stupidity. AND for them to go after petty criminals WILL get them on the radar of the French police, so the ending scene was awful, because for me it implied that (like in 220) they will always try to 'do the right thing' and NOT look away and that will get them into the same trouble they just left behind in NYC. Then their happily ever after will mean that they move from country to country, because Vincent's secret WILL eventually come out and JT will have to provide them with an endless stream of fake passports and background documents. What kind of a life is that???
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Post by joyabeast on Oct 17, 2016 7:07:07 GMT -5
I really like your way of looking at things in this show BeastieBoy . Maybe this kind of serenity comes with having watched many other US shows - and cared about them - like for example Smallville. When I hear you guys discussing SV, I get the feeling that you really liked it, but that it had so many flaws and plotholes and unsatisfying plotlines that it takes a 'hardened' fan to continue watching. I have NEVER gotten involved with ANY show as much as I have with this one, so surely that is the reason that my tolerance threshold for nonsense is so low and I have such a hard time 'forgiving' all the crap that is presented here. Yes, I take things personally too often and in S2, I was totally frustrated how my favorite character was presented as being weak, confused, borderline insane, indecisive, morally questionable, submissive, snarky, mean - I just felt insulted as a woman to have Catherine portrayed in this manner. Completely my personal impression, of course, because I get very defensive when women are shown in that light on tv or anywhere else. As for your analysis of S4, I can wholeheartedly agree: Braxton's motives were murky, Hill's motives were even more obscure. Maybe what Pippin said was correct: they changed course in the middle of the stream and tried to go into another direction alltogether. That maybe why Vincent's gruff behavior was never explained and why we were suddenly presented with a cabal, no new beast, a senseless plot and a rushed ending. I don't think that I will ever be happy with THAT ending, because it is just too much to swallow - even for BATB standards. The French are in uproar regarding terrorist threats and living in Paris under a false identity with a fake and falsified background is the height of stupidity. AND for them to go after petty criminals WILL get them on the radar of the French police, so the ending scene was awful, because for me it implied that (like in 220) they will always try to 'do the right thing' and NOT look away and that will get them into the same trouble they just left behind in NYC. Then their happily ever after will mean that they move from country to country, because Vincent's secret WILL eventually come out and JT will have to provide them with an endless stream of fake passports and background documents. What kind of a life is that??? The way the show ended, it really needed a s5 to fix the mess. Not having a whole season plot was always BATB shortcoming. Only s3 had a connected plot where every episode mattered. But than by having a well thought plot, they sacrificed the romance. In BATB it's always one or the other.
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Post by jefferen on Oct 18, 2016 6:32:15 GMT -5
The biggest plot hole that annoyed me was that Garrus was talking about an invisible beast, not speculating, actually talking about how they made him. So even when V figured out that Braxton was behind everything, the invisible beast just literally was dropped and if there never was an invisible beast to begin with wtf was Garrus referring to, it was totally out of place. Now if Braxton was the invisible beast that would've made more sense any been more interesting imo
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Oct 18, 2016 12:24:18 GMT -5
THAT was also one of my questions---who said that they had created an "invisible beast"? Did Garrus really just take Braxton's word for it? And was that Braxton's plan? Seriously? To claim there was an "invisible beast" doing things if he couldn't find a REAL beast in time? And WHERE was the proof that such a beast existed. How did Garrus know what would slow down a beast? And why did his tricks work on Vincent in the first place? My questions for Season 4 are rather endless.
Again, like others, I just assume that the showrunners/writers had a DIFFERENT plan for the season's big-bad and decided to change course mid-season due to either finding out the series would end with four or some other reason (maybe actor availability) or that they just couldn't conclude the arc in 13 episodes without making the Big Bad be someone already presented to the viewers.
And I could have supported Braxton being the big-bad if he, himself, had turned out to be a beast. Would have helped explain his craziness in that he was like Tori's father--his evilness was turned into further "craziness" due to the acceleration of the beast-gene in his body and having nobody around to sanitize him or humanize him. Just having this "old man" be able to outsmart his other brilliant scientist employees and co-conspirators JUST because he was "nervous" about DHS investigating him? REALLY? When DHS was proved to be so easily thrown off the scent on a regular basis, both last season and this one? WHERE was the real THREAT to Braxton, given all his resources. AND the fact that he had kept SO MUCH hidden previously?
Like BeastieBoy, I liked the build-up. Just thought the pay-out made NO sense. But they simply ran out of episode time, in my opinion, to accomplish all that they needed to accomplish. Had they utilized their time fully, we would NOT have gotten 405, which was a particular highlight of the season. So it is what it is.
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Post by joyabeast on Oct 18, 2016 14:04:18 GMT -5
This season had so many unrelated episode like 402, 403 and 408. First two episode mentioned above had nothing to offer. God knows why would they waste two episode totally with a short season. Besides 407 and 408 had the same theme, cat and V tring to get DHS and Grydal trust them. Same old, same old. If we didn't waste episodes like that we could have gotten a better plot that made sense.
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Post by sweetrosie29 on Oct 30, 2016 13:56:55 GMT -5
I know I'm late posting but my laptop broke and until I get a new one for Xmas I have to use my phone and life had been hetic. But here goes I will admit I did cry a few times expecially at JT's speak even though I knew they lived, shed some tears at Heather and Cats scenes too they were all done so brilliantly done by both ladies. The JT and Vincent hug was just awww. Agree about the rooftop scene it should have had more passion to it after 4yrs it felt flat to me considering what would be happening the next day.
I too would have liked to see them in Denver I get why Paris playing on the love theme part but again it felt a bit flat and I don't get why everyone sat outside just ignored the fact that the woman was having her bag snatched but they all just either stood there or carried on drinking like she was invisible to them.
Knew that JT and Tess would get back together and am just glad we didn't get to see the actual moment, I actually liked them better apart in season 4 than in season 3 together.
Now after all that I do still miss seeing our little show warts and all and did feel a genuine sense of loss for ages which is something I have never felt with a show in my life and that really surprised me so I guess they get something right for 4yrs, so RIP B&B it was a he'll of a ride.
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