The Muirfield Conundrum

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

Okay, so Muirfield in Season 1 is this see-all, massive organization with major ties to the FBI and US government. Just how deep, we never really know.  At least, as far as Season 1 goes. 

We see multiple agents attack Catherine on the subway ramp in the Pilot episode. So EXTENSIVE services were being given to Muirfield by the government to protect its secrecy and projects. Whole "cells" of FBI agents were apparently at the beck and call of Muirfield in order to protect the secrecy of its projects and the ties between said Muirfield corporation and the government. 

That FBI agent that kidnaps Catherine admits that his is the only "cell" to know about Vincent, at that time. And since I assume that Vincent could have told if the guy was lying, I am assuming that was correct. And when Catherine was kidnapped by that guy (Season 1, episode 4), she is shown a photograph with her mother and SEVERAL other scientists that worked on the project that included Vincent.

So Muirfield is supposed to be massive. And have multiple "hubs" as well as ties to groups of FBI agents. In fact, seems one happy government/corporate family.

So in "Cold Turkey," we get three or four MORE agents killed in the pursuit of Vincent, plus listening devices that have apparently been installed in Alex's apartment, Evan's lab, but NOT Cat's apartment? Say what? Evan's girlfriend turns out to be a recruited agent, as well as that guy sent to work with her and ultimately take out Alex in the end.

So endless, never-ending resources, all geared to promote the interests of Muirfield so that they can keep experimenting with impunity.

THEN we get Season 2. And suddenly, all FBI agents that seem to know about it have mysteriously vanished, so that Reynolds alone seems to have been calling the shots. And he only has ONE other guy to work with him to track down the other Muirfield "projects" still floating around out there. And once that guy gets eliminated Reynolds is basically working alone.

And do we REALLY think that ONE man, working alone, and maybe even against corporate and government organizations, could send Vincent in to totally eliminate Muirfield by JUST killing off ONE man? And causing an explosion in ONE lab? Do we REALLY think Muirfield only had that left?  

And just WHY were projects still "floating" around out there if the FBI and Muirfield previously had untold amount of agents at their disposal, all wiped out just pursuing Vincent?

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

Basically, I don't think Muirfield is really all gone. Just can't be. Would be too great a thing to NOT have dangling out there for the future, assuming that BATB had gotten its FULL five season run (and I have by no means lost all hope yet!).

So my Season 2 arguments for a "surviving Muirfield" go as follows:

We find out from Sam that a huge conglomerate of rich people were supposedly behind the beast projects and Muirfield. And since at the time of 216, those people were VERY much alive. PLUS, Muirfield (OR SOMEONE ELSE--again, scary thought) had records AND had sold AT LEAST one beast on the open market to the highest bidder. I mean, Zao knew he could get 6 or 7 million for Vincent, so there HAD to be other projects sold to establish a baseline.

And Sam was NOT the only one to figure out how to "pacify" or make docile the beast projects. The beast that Vincent kills in "Kidnapped" had been bought and paid for by a drug ring/cartel. So SOMEONE else out there had to know how to ENHANCE beasts, as Zao claimed to have been fixing to perfect with Vincent.

At any rate, with Sam finding scientists STILL LIVING that had worked on the beast projects, the formula was obviously still out there. And Muirfield EMPLOYEES were obviously still out there. So if you had corporate ties and corporate connections still out there by the end of 216, then WHERE did they go? Gabe never had a chance to build a case against them, since he went evil thereafter and could think of nothing else but hunting and killing Vincent. 

SO, shouldn't there be remnants of Muirfield still out there? And what about Julianne's company? Just HOW many BEAST FORMULAS could be floating around, with people needing jobs and new leadership to operate. Which SHOULD be still out and about, as Sam and Gabe didn't stop them.

So fellow Beasties, what do you think? Muirfield potential still out there? And did Liam really eliminate all of Julianne's resources? Just WHAT do you think is left out there? AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, what government TIES still exist to said corporate entity?

After all, Knox did say that he had "heard things" about the beast projects, etc. when Cat came forward. So SOMEONE was still alive in governmental agencies that knew what was going on. And DHS has now found out stuff.
 

[bbatb]

Oh, dear, I love me a good discussion. Of course we must not forget that S1 was also plagued with plot holes galore. We/I just did not care because it was insignificant in view of the magic and the chemistry of OUR couple.

First off, I am thinking that the guy who picked-up the bodies from the subway killing and then kidnapped Catherine was NOT FBI but Muirfield. When Joe later signed the body of the Bustamante sniper over to Reynolds he said 'I haven't seen you guys around since the subway killings.' And Reynolds says 'Rings a bell.' Meaning Reynolds had no idea what Joe was talking about, which also could mean that these goons were not FBI otherwise Reynolds would have known about that incident.

Then, about Reynolds brainwashing Vincent on his own with only agent Tucker by his side is highly unlikely. They came prepared with a net that would hold a beast, so they must also have had some kind of faciliy to contain a beast - in a cage or something. And they must have had at least one brilliant scientist to make the serum that 'enhanced' Vincent, because Bob was NOT a scientist. It took Zhao by surprise, so HE surely did not deliver that serum to the FBI.

Agree that M. could have had several subsidiaries, but then the writing in 201 was a bit off. Zhao claims 'I AM Muirfield' and he got killed and from the conversation between Reynolds and Tucker it was clear that with Zhao dead, the problem of M. was gone. So either Bob did not know as much as he thought he knew, or this is just another plot hole.

From 'Cold Turkey' on, they are throwing a ton of Muirfield agents and operatives at us. The group in the woods was not some single cell like in epi 104, but was working with/for Sorenson, just like Claire was, just like agent Kyle who threatened to have Vincent cut open in 'Heart Of Darkness'. So, yeah, you are right, all those labs and personnel could not possibly been housed in the penthouse apartment that got blown up in 201. There could be some other facilities out there and somebody else took over after Zhao's death.

So, let's just say that Bob was wrong about M. having been eliminated.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

AND that DOES bring up another hole in the whole Muirfield thing for me --either Reynolds had his own scientist(s) to enhance the beast formula, or SOME operative had to have stolen it from Zhao, as Zhao believed. Yet Reynolds never utilizes these people again, preferring to hire thugs outside the FBI to do his dirty work. SO for whatever reason, Reynolds other resources did not appear to come from the FBI.

Plus, if those extra rich corporate people that Sam goes after include scientists that worked on Muirfield projects, what happened to them AND their work? And just WHY didn't Reynolds know all about this secret organization if he had worked so closely with it in the past?

And although Zhao implies that he IS Muirfield, and Reynolds was his remaining/overall tie to the FBI, then HOW is Vanessa's death explained? Reynolds would never have authorized her death and Catherine's death. So why didn't Reynolds go after Muirfield in 2003? When AND HOW did Reynolds learn of Vincent being alive?

Basically, S1 Muirfield seems to be a completely different structure from the implied S2 Muirfield, which could officially supposedly shut down with the killing of only ONE man? Makes far more sense that Zhao's backing came from the Mysterious RIch Organization that would continue to operate Muirfield in another form or in secret after Zhao's death.

S3 also brings up small, telltale possibilities which should be discussed. (But my stomach is now groweling like a beast, so I must go feed it lunch!)  

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

And any way you look at it, Zhao and Julianne didn't re-invent the wheel alone. They EACH had to have scientists working for them. So where did all these scientists go? Any way you look at it, a substantial part of the INVENTING units of Muirfield and possibly of Julianne's organization HAD to have survived. AND needed NEW SPONSORS, since Zhao and Julianne were dead.

So Season 3 shows us the potential, through Julianne, of further enhancing the Beast Formula. And like Reynolds, Liam went after the HEAD of the organization rather than those that actually did the work (like the scientists). And the Secret Society would have figured out that they were exposed by a beast or those knowing about beasts. So people would know that organization(s) and scientists-for-hire still existed that knew and worked on the formula. (I mean SOMEONE had to know or have these Trade Secrets.)

So Season 3 actually gives us the unpleasant reveal that organizations are still out there working on beast-related/human-enhancing research and experimentations. Which means someone just needs to pick up from where Zhao and Julianne left off. Because the organization underneath (at least the formulas, research and scientists) still exists and needs new employment.

AND S3 has a government organization (DHS) learning about Muirfield AND Julianne and Liam as a result of having to come forward about Vincent. So now you have a government agency learning about Beast-potential. And we ALL know how well THAT has worked on BATB previously. . . .

(Okay, really going for lunch now. I mean it. Or I will start eating the computer screen, which just really can't be good.)

[bbatb]

I am just picking out two things here:

1. I don't think that Reynolds even knew that Vincent was alive - only M. knew that - at least before 122. Reynolds was not even in country until end of S1 when Thomas Chandler got the message that he is back. Then Bob and one of his goons broke into the ADA's apartment and found it destroyed and him gone, so they went to his mansion to capture HIM. Once there they shot him and then took Vincent instead. Finding Catherine trying to hold on to the net told Reynolds that they were together and then the whole changing Vincent became very personal for him - to make him forget all about Catherine and keep him away from her.

2. Juliana did NOT want to create beasts. Her serum was supposed to cure people with life-threatening illnesses. Then Liam tricked her into using it on him and it enhanced his beast. Then and only then she started injecting various people in order to create somebody strong enough to kill Liam before he killed her. She never made beasts, but superhumans. And they want us to believe that she invented the formula by herself, so no other scientists involved there. But of course with Juliana and her brother dead, the facility is still there, unless DHS took care of it.

[bbatb]

Oh, and I hope you had a good lunch. For me it is almost bedtime.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

bbatb:

The Reynolds thing has always bothered me. There was SO much potential there, and by killing him off, there is so much past history stuff that can never easily be brought to light.

I do think that Reynolds HAD to have known that beast experiments had survived, including possibly Vincent, since his plan was to find and kill all remaining outstanding beast-projects of Muirfield. Some of my own unanswered questions center around the fact that Bob said he worked originally as an FBI liaison and that was how he met and worked with Vanessa. He and Vanessa obviously fell apart before Cat was born, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the working relationship ended.

Vanessa managed to avoid being killed and escaping back to the US, only to be gunned-down by Muirfield. I have always wondered how Vanessa managed to elude soldiers determined to kill her without having powers herself. Either she and Vincent helped each other to escape (but then WHY doesn't he remember this? Vincent had memory issues that came out in S1 with NO explanation for why he had suppressed them other than the selective "blackout" theory, which never really explained much.) or they both got out alone, OR Bob possibly made an appearance or paid someone to get Vanessa out. Who knows? 

And Catherine's claiming that a "beast" saved her made the news. So Bob, who supposedly was following graduation dates, etc. would have HAD to see this info., since Catherine's mom being killed would have happened probably shortly after graduation. (I think it has been established by this point that Catherine had a late enough birthday that she was 19 by the time she graduated high school. However, since Catherine says to Heather that she was "away" that last year, it could have been that Vincent saved her during her first year of college. YET, you have Beth saying that Cat told everybody IN HIGH SCHOOL at the time that a beast saved her--so her contacts and friends were high school, not college, at the time that Vincent saved Cat.

At any rate, Bob would most likely have put two and two together, given his investigative skills, that Catherine was most likely, indeed, saved by a beast that was tracking Vanessa. And there would have been a VERY limited list of surviving individuals that would have been doing that--either Gabe, Vincent or that other guy from "Reunion" (I'm drawing a blank on the name at the moment).

Bob seems to have been biding his time about when to come after these Muirfield survivors. I mean, why wait so many years? Again, no explanation. Still, one would assume that Bob would HAD to have heard about the "Beast" maulings in NY, particularly as they ended up being in Cat's precinct. Which would just enforce his theory that beasts would somehow circle Cat, if he truly believed she somehow "inherited" beast problems/beast killer instincts like her ancestor. (AGAIN, this was a REALLY weak supposed link brought up in "Redemption" that never really paid off. Bob supposedly had a REASON for being so paranoid and determined to protect Cat from beasts. Other than weak tentative nods to Rebecca, there is never anything really given, other than Bob saying that beasts ALWAYS go crazy.)

And Bob's conversations with Catherine in the cell over multiple episodes talk about Vanessa's work and how she got orphans out, etc. Meaning (or at least sounding) like Bob still had professional and personal contact with Vanessa. What, how and why they would have worked together, we will never know. But if Vanessa really DID confide in Bob and provide him with evidence about Muirfield and their real dealings, then Bob would almost have HAD to know about Vincent, just as he did about Gabe.

So I think Bob came back at the time that he did because killings WERE happening in Cat's district. And he just naturally ASSUMED that said beast activities would somehow track back to Cat (which in a way, they did. Gabe was trying to lure Vincent out by killing. Although SOME beast deaths never were explained, like the carriage driver. Gabe had that special medieval killer weapon that was used, but he could have gotten it through his own investigation. Supposedly in episode 219 "Cold Case", Cat and Vincent don't dwell on the carriage murder due to Gabe having a airtight alibi. So that really IS an unanswered question, and could mean that someone else, like Vincent's former army buddy, could have actually committed teh murder.).

Again, I assume Bob came back when he did because beasts were obviously becoming a part of Cat's life, or surrounding her, even possibly protecting her. Which caused Bob to jump into action. And for SOME REASON never ever explained, THOmas got the alert about Bob and wanted Cat to know things. Whether it was just her true father's identity or something MORE, we will never know, as both Bob and Thomas are dead now.

Bob was clearly after getting one beast and killing off the others. He kills Gabe's girlfriend, who was obviously most likely a Muirfield project, as we saw the long telltale scar on her back. Bob clearly knew who she was when he shot her. So Bob had done his research AND knew that Vanessa had let beasts escape before. For WHATEVER reason, he took no action at the time. ONLY when beasts AND Muirfield came into Catherine's life once again did he leap into action. (Although if he had OTHER reasons for doing so, in addition to self-interest and cleaning up after an obviously out-of-control Muirfield that had caused the deaths of too many FBI agents, we will never know.)

Just from the above, you can see that I have A LOT of unanswered questions about Bob. But those questions are NOT likely to be answered now, UNLESS there were other people behind the scenes of Muirfield. And that is WHY Muirfield keeps coming back up for me---there are only so many scientists doing this particular kind of work. Obviously, the Muirfield assets would have been taken by these particular scientists into other employment, either for the government or private entities.

And that is where Julianne comes up for me. She obviously hears rumors about Vincent as part of her research. Bob (the OTHER Bob) and Carol basically confirm the "rumors" of Vincent. Meaning some of her scientists or contacts could have known or been affiliated with Muirfield.

ANd people behind the scenes that worked with Muirfield back in the day to wipe out Vincent and his unit (and maybe other units, who knows?) were never explained or brought up again. I mean, Vincent supposedly stays dead because of Muirfield, but the US army/government had just as much reason to hunt him down, since he saw the slaughter of his unit. Yet NOTHING was ever said about any OTHER bad guys outside of Muirfield.

So the Muirfield Conundrum continues for me---too many loose threads, scientists left in the wind, army contacts never silenced and presumably still out there, and the formula, which twice has landed in evidence, either through Julianne, Sam, or JT. Lots of potential there. Especially to discredit or eliminate Vincent, who would remain a potential person to tie it all together, given his past connections/knowledge.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

I should say Formulas plural, since Julianne's version was an "enhancement." However, as Julianne's formula also caused humans to become superhumans, you arguably have much the same thing. Which AGAIN brings up another problem ---the S1 Muirfield formula supposedly injected superhuman/beast-like traits through teh use of animal DNA, etc. Same as in "Dark Angel." But just like with that show, there turned out to be "more" at work then just animal traits. S2 presented the formula as "activating" a long-dormant gene in certain humans. Which is COMPLETELY different. So which was it? Because Bob and Carol went after Vincent because he was the telltale creature, the beast, that could have the answers to their issues locked in his genetic code, meaning that some scientist SOMEWHERE saw the link. Julianne certainly did. Again, another missed opportunity and leftover Muirfield question.

But back to what the original Muirfield formula supposedly did or did not do. And the potential that arose frmo that. The S1 Vincent that had certain "traits" presented the "Hulk" conundrum---is the hulking beast REALLY the same person, or another creature all together. In early S1 episodes, Vincent's Beast seems to have a mind and character all its own, as seen in "Trapped" and other episodes, where Vincent is suppressed and mind-dead when the Beast takes control. Which presented SO MUCH potential--such as whether or not the Beast would pursue Catherine when in control of VIncent's body. Could have made for some interesting television, especially if the Beast showed up on Cat's fire escape, wiht Vincent having no memory of said event, etc.

And the above could have even led to a theory that there was something in CAT'S Dna which would cause beasts to be drawn to her. Would explain Gabe and even others, like LIam, seeming to gravitate to her and bond wiht her. Because you DO see how Cat seems to have a knack of getting to Gabe and LIam. Would have been a DEFINITE interesting storyline for Cat to play---how HER Dna has something special all its own, without additional enhancements, that tracks back to beast heritage. Would then explain just WHY Vincent felt so driven in Season 2 to understand past primitive "beasts" and their nature and ways. 

Again, SO MANY forks in the road not taken. So much potential for storyline and connection between human experimentation and beasts, both inherited and lab-created (and is there a difference between the natural-born like Liam and the injected beast?). Cat always talks about fate and being "meant" to do what they do, so how is Cat REALLY tied in? I'm all for her OWN storyline representing her genetic potential and how that would actually make her a genetic mate for Vincent, in addition to the human-level attraction. More interesting levels that way. 

At least with the above, there would not have been the need to seemingly re-air the same plot of either case of the week or beast of the week, Vincent gets targeted and framed, VinCat have to work together to free/protect Vincent, etc. While S3 initially seemed to try to break onto other ground, it ended up being back to framing Vincent in order to lure him out, etc. MORE could have been done, especially from the supernatural and heritage angles, that would have been far more interesting and led to far more VinCat interaction and inspection. Because whether or not one is fated to be with someone as opposed to being with someone by choice presents its own special issues, which could have been fascinating if well-written.  

[bbatb]

First off I have to say that it will be impossible and very frustrating if we attempt to REALLY make sense of some aspects of this show. I mean mostly the technical, logical, procedural, whatever kinds of things. One can only agree to disagree about many things, because many things are left open for various interpretations and different opinions on how this is meant and that was intended.

If we approach this with a grain of salt and some humour, it should make for some interesting discussion and I am always open to that so here goes point for point (might skip one or two LOL):

Lets go back to the killing of the super soldier platoon where Vincent and Zach survived. THAT one already poses some questions: how do you destroy a beast? They had self-healing properties, hightened senses, extra strength, etc. - so going at them mano a mano was probably not possible. Maybe they dropped a bomb on them? That would make sense and that would also explain why the Army never bothered to look for Vincent or Zach, because there were no bodies left and no way to tell that two bodies were missing. I believe that is also why neither M. nor the FBI knew about Vincent and Zach - they both stayed off the grid for 10 years, until Vincent's DNA surfaced at Catherine's precinct and alerted M. I think that the FBI found ADA DNA on the Bustamante assassin (Bob picked up the body) and then they knew that HE killed that guy and then they decided to go after him. Vincent was never on the FBI radar until 222. Those goons who kidnapped Catherine were only pretentding to be FBI - they were M. agents (IMO) and so where the goons on the subway platform, because FBI is not killing cops in public - at least I don't believe so.

Vanessa's story does not fit in so many places. She got out alive of the war zone and then she continued to work for M. for another 10 years until they shot her? Why shoot her at that time. Why not shoot her for smuggling G. and the other orphans out of the orphanage. THAT would have been cause for some drastic measures, but nothing happened there. Then she continues to work for them, even though she knows they were evil and then she injects these unsuspecting soldiers with this dangerous and untested serum? Then she watches her experiments being eliminated and she still goes back to M. for another 10 years (the time between Afganistan and her death) - what was she doing there for 10 years?

As to Bob having seen the article about a beast saving his daughter does not mean that he knew that this was Vincent. I am sure he did not know the names of all the soldiers involved, but it probably got his attention. Why he waited 10 years to go beast hunting is the secret of the writers and then they started with the ADA and went from there. When Catherine was working at The Salty Dawg the blonde owner said to her: 'bla, bla, bla hot new ivy league student...', so she was already in college that night.

I definitely think that G. killed the carriage driver with the morning star he had in his home in order to frame Vincent. He wanted to step up the hunt for this vigilante, so he could get cured. He was running out of time. Who else should have done it? Zach stayed hidden and had no agenda with the carriage driver. All the other beasts were with M. or sold as assets and not roaming the streets.

That is all for today - more tomorrow.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

BBATB:

I definitely agree that you have to approach some elements of this show with humor, particularly in regards to the timeline and revisionist history. I have often wondered if the writers were intentionally trying to vague things up in order to leave themselves some wiggle room or else purposefully leaving so many loose threads in order to come back for possible storylines in the future.

As to what you said about Vanessa's death---she was murdered in 2003 outside the Salty Dawg, right after she got back into the country (at least, that is what I am assuming, based upon her video left for Cat that we got in S3). So while she did continue to work for Muirfield after the orphanage incident, she didn't live long after returning to the US from the whole Afghanistan incident, since Vincent enlisted around September to November 2001, had some training, got shot at least once (as he talked to Catherine about the FIRST time he was shot while in the army and the leftover trauma/sleeplessness after being shot while she was recovering from the events of "Bridesmaid Up"), was put back in the field, and then experimented upon. Which considering the time it would have taken for Vincent to have training, get deployed, get injured, etc. means that the Muirfield injections had to come most likely in early 2003.

So Vincent and Vanessa both get back to the US in 2003, and Vincent was tracking her while going after/investigating Muirfield. And the "Trapped" episode shows us that Vincent had repressed memories surrounding the time after he got his injections (and how other Muirfield projects were going through the same thing). (AGAIN, here is where the writers seemed to have left themselves some wiggle room in that Vincent is fuzzy on the details, even though he later tells Cat in 216 that he came back angry and intent on going after Muirfield BEFORE he met her, so just HOW LONG Vincent and Vanessa were able to live upon returning to the country in 2003 we will never know.)

Vanessa had told Cat in the Pilot that it was lucky she was "on call" that night, so she may have returned to working as a doctor in a hospital upon returning to the US. And Muirfield probably waited just enough time (like a month of two) before gunning her down in order to ensure she didn't get questioned or independently talked, as she had threatened to do. But I definitely think that Vanessa tried to distance herself from Muirfield upon returning to the US, thus triggering Muirfield's worry that she might "talk," thus ensuring she was targeted for murder.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

I have also wondered how you get away with murdering a whole unit of soldiers, but the officers and killers of said unit return to the US unscathed? And there is no line of inquiry? ESPECIALLY when a whole TOWN was supposedly wiped out by the super soldiers? Again, maybe this was why Vanessa was murdered---the government and press could trace her down to ask about what happened.

Like you, I have also thought a bomb was ultimately involved as part of the "clean-up." Vincent said that "they couldn't stop us, we couldn't stop us" as to the unit's actions upon going initially crazy from the injections. Even Vincent acknowledges that they all murdered innocents at that time, and a whole town was wiped out by the unit. So the officers or uninjected higher-upps began shooting the super-soldiers, or at least that is what you hear happening from Vincent's drug-induced memories in "Trapped." However, that REALLY doesn't make sense--they could have blurred away or run vast distances. So how DID they expect to kill off all the super-soldiers quickly?

Some of the soldiers might have been put into cells initially when they started experiencing blackouts but before they were fully transformed. So they would have been more easily killed, especially if in a fugue state. But that leaves the WHOLE rest of the unit, so I tend to also think they just bombed the town, since the civilians were already supposedly dead anyway from the super soldiers. So how would they have been able to verify the body count?

Yet Reynolds SOMEHOW knew later about Zach, as he had been worried about sending Vincent after him, since they came from the same unit. So the FBI would have HAD to have been involved in the whole process. Reynolds says he was assigned to work with Vanessa as the FBI's person contracted to work with Muirfield. And Zhao said that the government (FBI) approached him for the serum. Thus, once the soldiers started murdering the other soldiers, the FBI was a part of the cover-up process.

So I think Reynolds WAS initially sent in when the FBI was showing up at Cat's precinct and having to claim the body of one of their own murdered on the subway platform. Because Cat DID have the card of an agent that had been transferred, so she was connected with someone else in the agency. So I DO think the FBI was invested just as much in the cover-up as Muirfield, particularly since a government contract with a private pharmaceutical/research corporation resulted in the deaths of countless soldiers and civilians. NO ONE from Muirfield or the FBI would have wanted that to come out. Thus, they were mutually tied to one another in illegal acts.

So by 2012 when the cover-up again goes into high gear due to Catherine's investigating, Reynolds, who had been re-assigned out of the country probably following the initial 2003 cover-up and clean-up killings in the US, gets ordered back to the US to finish up, especially since now agents and Muirfield people are ending up dead in the process. Or maybe Reynolds took the action upon himself due to all the carnage being potentially linked back to him. Which is WHY Reynolds death bothers me so---we will never know just how much the government was involved or how much Reynolds and a select few may have taken their jobs to the illegal level unknowingly for profit. Zhao DID SAY that both he AND Reynolds had "profited greatly" from the government/Muirfield link.

So one of my theories was that the government did contract with Muirfield for the initial project, having no real idea what REALLY was to occur. Maybe they believed it was super-vitamins as well, exactly what the soldiers were told. Only after the carnage began did they realize what they were REALLY in for and covered it up, only to find that more and more people had to be silenced. And so much illegal stuff had happened, the government either explicitly ordered Reynolds back to the US to finish the whole thing, or Reynolds was involved in part of the initial cover-up and took it upon himself. Who really know? And now with Reynolds AND Vanessa dead, we are likely never to know.

I would still LOVE to know what the ORIGINAL storyline was going to be that was hinted about in "Heart of Darkness." Evan found out something devastating, something that Vincent ALSO had found out about Catherine and her parents. So the FULL Reynolds connection and government involvement was probably in that file he examined. But once Brad Kern came in and changed the whole structure and goal of Season 2, the whole Muirfield stuff was supposedly quickly put to bed. Yet the Reynolds storyline remained.

So there are definite holes in the whole Reynolds/Vanessa thing. It may have been Vanessa kept working at Muirfield AFTER Gabe and the whole orphanage incident to 1) see what Muirfield would do with the information they had learned as a result of the Chimera project, 2) felt she was the only one that REALLY cared about the subjects experimented on, so she stays involved in order to minimize the damage OR because she really DID think that good could come from enhancing human beings or 3) like Evan, once she was in, she realized that she could never get out again and attempted to undermine the organization from within in whatever way she could.

So no wonder Catherine questions everything about her parents. And we will NEVER know just what Thomas Chandler knew about the above. Clearly, he knew something, or Muirfield wouldn't have killed him. Sigh. Still leaves a lot of potential out there.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

Just why the whole Muirfield Conundrum is important and relevant to me:

I have always had My Own Pet Theory that Vanessa stayed on with Muirfield partly due to having no choice, fearing her family would be targeted AND in thinking she could perhaps continue to protect innocents. BUT, my theory was also that there was always something in CAT'S DNA that kept her onboard, KNOWING that Muirfield research cause and effect could and WOULD affect Catherine.

And this effect on Catherine could have been multi-fold. Catherine could have something in her DNA that would make her a perfect mate for a beast or some kind of prodigy child that would have resulted from a combination of her DNA with that of a beast. Meaning that researchers would eventually LOOK for people with Cat's seemingly unique-type of DNA. Which would also explain WHY beasts were drawn to Rebecca (I mean, how ELSE would you explain how seemingly rare beasts just end up after the same woman? YES, she was beautiful, but there might have been MUCH MORE below the cellular level that literally compelled the beasts to go crazy without her, after forming that initial BOND.).

It just could have given Catherine a whole new and different storyline that could have gone alongside Vincent's. And it would explain why Vanessa would have had such a personal interest in Muirfield and just WHY she never tried harder to get out, knowing that Muirfield cared little to nothing for their subjects and willingly and illegally experimented on them.

Maybe it is something the writers would have pursued. Could have been intriguing as part of the whole Beast Heritage Season 2 angle as well, as there might have been a pattern through history of she-who-wielded the gem alongside her beast mate, etc. due to a bond based on significant ties even beyond love and attraction.

So yeah, the what-ifs behind Muirfield continue to make for some interesting discussion possibilities. And certainly would have provided some intriguing plot developments. I STILL don't know why Kern felt he had to just brush Muirfield aside so easily, yet continue with the Reynolds storyline and other beast experiment plotlines that were SO weakened without the Muirfield connection. Sigh.

Will continue hashing out more theories later! Always fun to fill in the time during these TOO LONG HIATUSES!!!

[bbatb]

Feb 18, 2016 12:47:35 GMT -5 alwayscrazedbatbfan said:

Just why the whole Muirfield Conundrum is important and relevant to me:

I have always had My Own Pet Theory that Vanessa stayed on with Muirfield partly due to having no choice, fearing her family would be targeted AND in thinking she could perhaps continue to protect innocents. BUT, my theory was also that there was always something in CAT'S DNA that kept her onboard, KNOWING that Muirfield research cause and effect could and WOULD affect Catherine.

And this effect on Catherine could have been multi-fold. Catherine could have something in her DNA that would make her a perfect mate for a beast or some kind of prodigy child that would have resulted from a combination of her DNA with that of a beast. Meaning that researchers would eventually LOOK for people with Cat's seemingly unique-type of DNA. Which would also explain WHY beasts were drawn to Rebecca (I mean, how ELSE would you explain how seemingly rare beasts just end up after the same woman? YES, she was beautiful, but there might have been MUCH MORE below the cellular level that literally compelled the beasts to go crazy without her, after forming that initial BOND.).

It just could have given Catherine a whole new and different storyline that could have gone alongside Vincent's. And it would explain why Vanessa would have had such a personal interest in Muirfield and just WHY she never tried harder to get out, knowing that Muirfield cared little to nothing for their subjects and willingly and illegally experimented on them.

Maybe it is something the writers would have pursued. Could have been intriguing as part of the whole Beast Heritage Season 2 angle as well, as there might have been a pattern through history of she-who-wielded the gem alongside her beast mate, etc. due to a bond based on significant ties even beyond love and attraction.

So yeah, the what-ifs behind Muirfield continue to make for some interesting discussion possibilities. And certainly would have provided some intriguing plot developments. I STILL don't know why Kern felt he had to just brush Muirfield aside so easily, yet continue with the Reynolds storyline and other beast experiment plotlines that were SO weakened without the Muirfield connection. Sigh.

Will continue hashing out more theories later! Always fun to fill in the time during these TOO LONG HIATUSES!!!

I like your pet theory about Catherine having something in her DNA that affects/calms/attracts beasts and after she revived the ADA with the defibrilator, I was hoping that it was her power rather than this unlikely machine that brought him back to life (not that I wanted him back alive at all). That was almost supported later when Vincent tried to revive Xavier in 'Catch Me If You Can', he was unsuccessful until Catherine touched his shoulder and then Xavier came back.

Sadly, they never went there.