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Post by kiki09 on Jun 15, 2015 5:44:59 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, I actually don't mind that the reaction and response to this episode is varied. I think my only main concern coming out of this ep and for season 3 in general is whether parts of the show will get repetitive, either in dialogue or concepts. There is only so many times that Catherine can give a big speech talking Vincent off the ledge. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over in that regard. I don't want the show to be stale after 2 or 3 eps. I hope with things like Vincent's beasting out, they find new ways for him to regain control and not go full beast again. Personally I liked the episode but I also can identify with the issues pointed out for example by anapi -season3baby :). I liked that the characters showed some self-awareness at parts. I enjoyed the Heather/V scenes and the Heather/Catherine/Vincent phonecall. I like the comedy but there should always be a balance. I liked the Tess and JT scenes, and I didn't have a problem with Tess and JT having more screentime in this ep because they were not always utilized that well in s2 IMO. I like that they have their separate thing going outside of Vincat and that when the situation arises, they are also involved in Vincat/DHS stuff. I think one of my favourite parts was when they were all at the hospital. JT and Vincent had some good bro scenes and I liked the twist at the end because I truly did not see Agent Thomas dying after all they JT did to get the serum to him. I think there is potential for individual character for everyone after this ep. With that said I am still more interested in reading why people liked/disliked the episode and the different perspectives. So keep them coming!
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vickyd
Army Recruit
BatB Summer
Posts: 87
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Post by vickyd on Jun 15, 2015 6:06:23 GMT -5
One of the issues I have, alwayscrazedbatbfan, is that nothing I have seen so far has ever led me to believe that "home" is an important matter for C and V. There was nothing about the boathouse that screamed "this is Vincent Keller's abode" to me (definitely decorated for a killing machine we plan to kill off once he's done all the killing we need him to do)....and who redecorated Catherine's apartment during the time she was desperately looking for Vincent (definitely not C-we are supposed to suspend disbelief and pretend the apartment always looked that way)?? They have tons of other potential issues they should be dealing with and addressing as they move in together...yes, inject a little humor, but this bordered on farce, and use it with a matter that has substance and meaning in the lives of the characters. Forgive my little rant, please. Like anapi -season3baby :), I will write some thoughts down later, once I've watched it again. I am actually relieved that most beasties really enjoyed the episode; I hope you don't judge me too harshly because I only found it OK. locaxbatb I think that we all agree in one way or another. Honestly, at this point I don’t know what can sweep me off my feet. After watching the premiere and squealing (on repeat!!!) during the first and last scene (my lovely VinCat!), I felt like after a good date. It’s like you finally wake up in bed with a person that you have been into for so long that you end up wondering “is that it? That’s what it feels like?” Everything was magical but the long wait has grounded you. I definitely know that it is the long wait, the anticipation, the scarce spoilers that make us feel a bit off. On the other hand, I wonder why the move-in scene (opps! Spoilers!) has left a sour taste in your mouth. I didn’t expect anything else. Think about what these characters have been through since we met them in October 2012. Catherine lost her mum, was saved by an unknown creature, has changed her world view, pursued justice, met Vincent, fell in love, lost her dad, lost Vincent, found a deceitful and manipulative father, struggled with Vincent’s changes, lost her sister, had to find a distraction (the-no-name-person), fell in love again and still her sense of justice and “save-the-world” motto is rooted in her. Vincent lost his family, joined the army, became a beast, kept hiding and saving, fell in love with a dynamic girl, let himself live this love, got kidnapped, brainwashed, lost his love, lost his moral compass, succumbed to his primal side, recovered, wished for a normality and finally realized that he can’t have it. The only stable point in their lives is that they love each other, they want to keep the world safe and are better together than apart. They are super-heroes in a sense. However, can you blame them for freaking out? They are so independent people, have hurt so much in their lives, have been so alone that they need time to adjust to these emotions. For me, neither was out of character. They are so much in love that they want for this to happen really bad although they are terrified. Their personalities and skills are powerful and sometimes they clash but there is this “pull” that keeps them together. I just hope the next episodes will show bits of their relationship evolution. and not just a brush-off (that was my complaint of s2-editing maybe?)
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Post by mocha83 on Jun 15, 2015 6:20:32 GMT -5
i got to watch once, i was half asleep.. lol so i'll rewatch again later and give my two bits.
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Post by jefferen on Jun 15, 2015 10:06:02 GMT -5
The one thing I do have to point out that I wasn't crazy about was Cat having to talk him down. I understood and welcomed it in 301 bc I understood why they did it, to basically show how much growing VinCat has done since mid S2 but I think the point was made loud and clear in 301 and if we see this very single episode I agree it's going to get repetitive and old. V should be able to get to the point where he can choose on his own because of the love Cat has for him regardless if she's there or not or talking him down or not. Only beef I really had and it was a minor thing to me in the bigger scheme of things:)
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Post by Ilaria on Jun 15, 2015 10:25:22 GMT -5
I liked the episode... Tess's brother was introduced and the plot cross experiments is taking shape, Heather is the alter ego of JT, and the thing I do not mind it gives that boost of lightness which is good, I like that JT and Tess have their story separated from Vincat, also if JT and Tess are a great shoulder for Vincat
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 10:43:33 GMT -5
Watched the episode and i love it: yes I admit that it is different in a way from the previous one, like there were two different lines in one show, but I think there is a correlation: E1 was about the new re-born couple that is trying to gain a steady situation putting the commitment to an higher level (from BF - GF to living together and ready to get married). But soon they realize that it is not enough. In E2 they return to be individual persons that are struggling to find a compromise and are both afraid of not being able to define their own spaces in the life-couple (Cat is defending her territory, and with this she is defending her little world that makes her feel secure). And that is why IMO there isn't that chemistry love-bubble of E1.
Vincent/Cat first scenes: I was watching the episode during the lunch break at work and I burst down in a laugh before trying to contain myself due to the presence of my workmates. Jay is very funny and yes he is overacting but I think he did this on purpose and it is not a wrong interpretation: Vincent is very surprised by how his body is reacting to Cat's questions, assertions etc... and he is trying to contain the beast inside that is not under control. He has to collect all his strength for not beasting out and he has to emphasize and put to extreme his "human" movements in order to hide beast movements that Cat could easily recognize. I admit that if we go on watching E2 from E1 finale, that scene could seem a little odd
Vincent/Heather scene: poor Vincent! maybe he wants to forget his problem with a regenerative shower in Cat's company (and that could have been a very hot scene...) but his bubble dream is destroyed by Heather. And that is not the worst thing: Heather is living the result of a man that wasn't able to go over his commitment problems so Vincent mirrors his own situation instead of forget that. plus the awkward moment with the shower, plus Heather's questioning... he can only beasted out (I love when he starts to roar while drinking some orang juice just to refresh his idea)
Vincent/JT: go bromance go! Video games are the best way to calm nerves down. JT: finally JT has his story, he is involved in first person and not only as a shadow of Vincent. What really happened with his miracle cure? we have to find it out during the season. And I want for him more screen time, Austin deserved it. I think that at the end we will have not two leads and two main characters but four main characters.
JT/Tess: brotherhood problem even for them, but at this point it is not clear if JT reaction at the polygon was due to a regained self confidence or to something related to the cure. We will see. I love JT and Tess playing video games together and Tess wearing a T-shirt with the periodic table and man boxer: she is so like JT. I think that is a way to show that they are more similare than we expected.
The case of the week: what I found interesting in it is the mix of real medical problems with supernatural experimenting for superpowered human. IMO it could be that experiments were started into some hospital and that could be another contact point with Vincent.
I didn't expected the death of Agent Thomas.
Catherine/Vincent final scene: a little romance and some compromise could save the couple and for the first time they are really trying to leave their work, friend's need etc behind when they are together (don't answer at phone call)
IMO E2 presents them all as human with their problems that would seem little if confronted to the strange forces that they are call to fight, but are what takes them grounded in reality when everything around them is getting weird.
About some repetition: even Vincent asked Cat if she will have to go on repeating him to calm down in order to stop the beast. So my two cent is that they will fins soon a proper way and Vincent will find the strength to not passing the limit into himself.
About the mood of the episode: I didn't find it light at all! There are a lot of big issue about superhuman, JT's serum, Vincent work that are all peaces of a bigger puzzle and every single peaces could lead to a very dark and heavy situation. A little and well played funny moment is alway wellcome. Maybe Jay and Austin are more into those kind of things than KK
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Post by corinne on Jun 15, 2015 11:28:12 GMT -5
Anna, I agree with you on the fact that after watching 302, I didn't feel that urge to watch again, like I had last week. I want to watch it again tonight, but I'm sure I won't watch it 5 times like 301. Now, I'm more hesitant on the tone of the episode. I mean yes our characters are worth more than discussing if she'll be happy with an awful lamp or a giant TV screen in her appartment, but what I liked was that there were, in spite of that underlying important questions, like when he didn't want to admit his "primal issues" and she was wondering if he had changed his mind. I guess that talks to me, because even if they love each other and are engaged, I think in any relationship, you always have these doubts, and I could relate to Catherine here. Same as when she had this doubt on the boathouse. That is touching...that's one of the lovely thing in seing a love story on screen. I'm sure they won't play the funny side very long, and it was okay here, didn't sound like a farce to me...moving in together is new and stressful usually, and add that his new issues, it was understandable that Vincent was weird. Honestly it was an okay episode but I hope we'll get more of Vincat deep and true connection in next ep...
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Post by raniamahd on Jun 15, 2015 11:29:28 GMT -5
ok i finally watch the ep ( i didn't read all your comments yet, just those which have been posted immediately after the episode ended ) and because it seems like beasties can't agree on one opinion about it , and that a good thing imo but it means it isn't one of those episode which has a special place in BATB history and in the beasties' hearts like last week ep so i took my time to sleep and do real life duties before watching ( something i didn't do last week lol ) so here are my thoughts about this episode in short notes : first it was a good one ! not great but still good ! i didn't expect anything bigger after last week because as much as i wish every episode will be better than its previous -- i know its hard to achieve ! especially after the season primer epic episode -- seriously how can they top it ?! --- so if i try to make a summary or conclusion for what i got from it -- i will write that in 2 points 1- they still play on the theme of ( Cat is Vincent's gem ) ! so now she is not just the one person who can get him back if he dances near the dead line , the one who keeps him from loss control and loss his humanity --- now she also does that even if she is the cause of the problem ?! -- meaning she is cause and the solution in the same time ! ---- i am ok with that even if it takes all the credit from V and gives it to Cat ( again ) but it goes with the epic love and the fairytale because having that effect on him shows how deep their bond goes and how epic their love is . 2- they are back in square0 now after agent Thomas got shot -- they don't know what exactly they are against or who is behind it ! they have no clue at all ! -- so its a set up for next episodes now the negative points imo : 1- you can't waste a whole ep as a setting up when you only have 13 eps per season ! 2- the comedy was out of place here ! first because of the short numbers of ep we have , it reminded me of ep 2/20 when they wrote it on the risk of season2 could be the serie's final = you only got 3 episode to end the show and still wasted one of them to make their version of a sitcom ! second because if you want to play on the normal couple problems in a Sci-Fi show about a very upnormal couple don't play it in a comedy way -- more important again don't waste a whole episode out of 13 on that ! points i like about the ep : 1- it was adorable to hear my vincat refer to eachothers by the word ( fiancée) 2- i like Vincent /Heather interaction -- not the funny scene in the shower although it was funny but i think all the ladies here will agree with me that we would like it more if it was the other way -- meaning if it was V who was in the shower but i am talking about the actual interaction , they started talking together -- yeah it was Heather who did all the talk ( as usual ) but anyway i see a building up for a big brother /baby sister relationship -- and that something they both never had and could really use it 3- i love the brother bond in the ep , again our batman had his Robin in the time of need lol , i also love JT/Tess interaction in this ep too and that isn't usual for me because i am among those who aren't convinced of their romantic relationship ! -- it was so sweet to see JT defended her honor although her brother didn't say anything incorrect ? she did sleep with her boss ! but the thing her brother may not know is that for the females detectives in the present sleeping with the boss is kind of their thing funny notes : 1- dear Heather : time to grow up and listen to you big sister and call first before coming by using your old key and make yourself home -- flash news little sis man in the house you don't want to be in such embarrassing scene or worse walking on the new couple having some ahem 2- dear Cat you have to work on your sense of humor because ( showering with my fiancée ) is a sentence no sister in the world want to hear even as a joke 3- so as we expect Heather's fiancée is out of the picture , i am ok with that because i like our little circle with the our 5 here especially with the spoiler of the people to come next -- but it was bad for the budget to waste 2 wedding dress on a wedding not going to happen lol
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 15, 2015 11:44:23 GMT -5
These are two people that were prepared to run off together with nothing more than 2 backpacks between them. And they have even lived together while being on the run. Plus, for two months, it appears that Vincent all but lived at Cat's place with her. So I am wondering how two people so willing to sacrifice for one another would suddenly have an issue as to their things, especially when they were so ready to leave them previously in order to be together.
Yet I get that these are two extremely stubborn and independent people. And Vincent spent 10 years living with a guy that had the same exact interests as him. In Season 1, we got to see Cat literally lose it outside the club trying to figure out what Vincent should or should not do for a case. And Vincent defending his actions. So when you look at it that way, you can see the same two people being territorial over their former space. And even in Season 1, Vincent was looking for a place "where his girlfriend would come and visit him" as he told Cat jokingly when they were looking for a place after the warehouse was blown up. So even there, they didn't contemplate actually living together.
So I get that we are supposed to see this as a big change (and that VinCat have probably spent the last 2 months pretty much in bed enjoying their reunion and freedom, so figuring out where "stuff" would go would NOT have been an issue. They were supposedly on their own "hiatus."). I will hopefully find this episode more "cute" when I see it then off-putting. But I want to see them building a life together SERIOUSLY rather than setting them up as gladiators in a duel of some kind, each trying to one-up the other.
The writers are probably trying to avoid the complete doom and gloom feel that parts of Season 2 have, so we should probably expect their attempts to "lighten" the moments, especially since VinCat often have to fight so hard to just stay alive and together.
And you need to have lighter episodes in between the non-stop action, fast-paced episodes that will be necessary to move the season arc forward. Have to break that momentum somehow. HOWEVER, I didn't want that coming so quickly in Season 3 when we need to keep the viewers, and the ROMANCE from the first episode really SHOULD make people want to watch (and get some of those viewers back that were so off-put by early Season 2.) STILL, I will hopefully like 302. We know from earlier spoilers that 303 is likely to be much darker, so that may be why this episode was an attempt at something else. PLUS, they need to show the characters bonding with one another/changing dynamic so that we know what we get moving forward. Heather was never really part of the Beastie-side of the group in Season 1. She, Catherine and Tess were their own little support group over the men in their lives seeming to be incapable of commitment, so there is a totally different dynamic to their relationships NOW.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 15, 2015 11:56:36 GMT -5
Rania,
Your comments had me howling! Sadly, THAT IS Cat and Tess' thing that neither must be proud of now, having slept with someone that was their boss (although technically, at least Gabe was actually gone from the position when they got together). ACK, EWW--don't want to EVER think about the "G" word again!!!! Still REPRESSING the BAD memories!!!
And poor Heather. We knew the fiancé of hers would never be around, so I figured he had to be out the door. Does that mean Heather is moving back from Miami or just supposedly still flying back and forth to NY?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 15, 2015 12:32:20 GMT -5
Anna, I agree with you on the fact that after watching 302, I didn't feel that urge to watch again, like I had last week. I want to watch it again tonight, but I'm sure I won't watch it 5 times like 301. Now, I'm more hesitant on the tone of the episode. I mean yes our characters are worth more than discussing if she'll be happy with an awful lamp or a giant TV screen in her appartment, but what I liked was that there were, in spite of that underlying important questions, like when he didn't want to admit his "primal issues" and she was wondering if he had changed his mind. I guess that talks to me, because even if they love each other and are engaged, I think in any relationship, you always have these doubts, and I could relate to Catherine here. Same as when she had this doubt on the boathouse. That is touching...that's one of the lovely thing in seing a love story on screen. I'm sure they won't play the funny side very long, and it was okay here, didn't sound like a farce to me...moving in together is new and stressful usually, and add that his new issues, it was understandable that Vincent was weird. Honestly it was an okay episode but I hope we'll get more of Vincat deep and true connection in next ep... i know corinne, not saying they did not have any moments and they did interact as a couple. and they showed feelings and fears. not saying they didnt. it was just done on too much of a superficial level for me. not my cup of tea. and after last week's episode i had raised my hopes that they were heading in the right direction which is why i was so frustrated when just in 302 they give us a random, filler episode when they also had specifically said they wont have any such episodes in season 3 and it would be much tighter. so settling for just an okay episode just didnt work for me this time round i am afraid...
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 15, 2015 12:43:27 GMT -5
what i'd like to see going forward 1) serious/mature and honest conversations - higher character maturity levels 2) no more comedy of a similar type - reserve that for j.t. and tess or something 3) character development - a season 3 journey - the ability to fully relate to both characters and individual growth 4) many trials and tribulations - preferably not involving china vases and lcd screens 5) Real relationship issues - it is clear they have a long way to go ...which i felt we had overcome by the end of season 2. 6) no more cases of the week with little relevance - make it more connected please - link the individual cases with their personal development 7) real danger which we have not at all seen so far 8) a big external threat coming in not too late in the season 9) beautiful vincat moments 10 consistency and a show which knows what it is and has no identity crisis - i thought we were in the right direction, but really not thinking that now 11) less repetition both in writing and storylines - something new 12) more independent thinking - vincent should not be dependent on catherine to retain his humanity - they need to wand and need each other of course but they should be strong individually - hadnt we used seeason 2 as a way for them to"grow as individual" so that they can then be stronger together - lol deja vu 13) passion and fire i am sure i can think of many more but need to cook dinner for the kids
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Post by Laura on Jun 15, 2015 13:01:10 GMT -5
Firstly, I am glad that many liked this episode. I was not overly keen on it so I am sorry for spreading negativity when so many of you loved it… I agree with every single point you've made. Won't post a review, as I totally agree with you and @locaxbatb. Just, yes, this episode reminded me of Ever After too, although Primal Fear did feel a bit more advanced cinematography wise to me, and was better paced. But how I felt after watching Ever After was different than this one. I do remember how angry I was after 2x20, and thought what a waste of episode it was (this one too, but now I'm like, oh well!), especially since we were not sure whether we'd be renewed for season 3 then. Last night I felt indifferent and yes, a bit disappointed. Had we not had another season in the bag, I'm sure I'd feel as angry as I did after 2x20. Oh and one more thing, I know many did enjoy the first scene, but I felt both Cat and Vincent were so out of character. We do need some comic relief to balance all the drama and action, and I'm all for it, but the way this scene was written and executed made me feel like I was watching a scene out of another show. It felt alien to me. It wasn't VinCat-y, if that makes any sense. It's no secret that most of us are in love with season 1, despite all its flaws and problems, oh and those lame cases of the week. But it had "something" that drew us in initially. That very "something" (sorry, can't find a better word ) was missing in most episodes last season. I saw hints of it in 3x01, and I really hoped we'd continue to see and feel it throughout this season. I'm all for change, and new story lines and arcs, characters, you name it. But I think whatever aspect of the show they wanted to change (and hey, again, I'm all for it), they should have left the heart of it intact; and that's VinCat. Let's face it, this is very much a character/relationship show, and as a fan, like Anna said, I want to see real, mature, meaningful conversations, interactions, and plots. I want to see things that are relevant to the true nature of this show. Break them up, have them fight, have them drive each other crazy, I don't care; so long as they evoke and generate emotions in me - deep, real, and raw. PS: I didn't want it to be long post, but I kinda got carried away. Sorry
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jun 15, 2015 13:42:43 GMT -5
What I'm getting here is a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it saddens me to hear that after episode 1 we are going completely in the right direction and then, after one more episode, the train is off the track and careering over a cliff. Let's get a little perspective here. Episode 1 had lots af lovely Vincat moments and the proposal scene was just about perfect in my opinion. But there were moments in the episode where Vincent and Catherine were far from seeing eye-to-eye and the proposal came along quite quickly despite these moments, because when it boils down to it Vincent realised that despite everything, he loved Cat with all his heart and (as he said) although love is not the only reason they are together (destiny being the other main reason) without that love, he would be 'lost' to his beast side. Therefore, it's not surprising that Vincent and Catherine still have issues to resolve. Vincent's reactions at the start of the episode, his primal issues, are I feel down to his insecurity still. Why would a woman as lovely as Catherine want to marry someone with his issues, so when he begins to beast out, he is embarrassed about it and tries to hide it from her. Despite her telling him how much she loves him, he is still scared of losing her. This is his insecurity and when he is insecure, he worries and when he's worried, he beasts out which makes him more insecure. It's a viscious circle only broken at the end of the episode by Catherine words. At the start, she is very territorial. Although Vincent has probably spent many nights at her apartment over the last few months, it's still her space and she doesn't seem all that happy at accommodating his 'stuff'. The scene at the end is really nice because she realises the effect this has had on him and she makes it clear to him that she is putting some of her stuff into storage to accommodate him. This may seem like petty, relationship stuff but I think the writers are using the lamp and the flat-screen tv as a metaphor for their relationship. Love me, love my ugly lamp and love the fact that I turn into a terrifying beast when I get angry or upset. I don't think we will be getting into BOTW territory again although the first 2 episodes have featured 2 experiments. I thought the experiment in the second episode was better fleshed-out and you felt more empathy for him than the Wall Street trader last week. He thought the serum he received was a treatment/cure for his brain tumour. He just wanted to live. I think his introduction has given Vincent and Catherine a snippet of information about where the serum may have come from, a trail for them to follow. This is after alll the point of the Season, to find out who is conducting the experiments and why. Also to see how Vincent and Catherine deal with the situation and the threats as they surface. I don't think Cat will be talking Vincent down every time. I predict that part of his character developement will be that he has to manage to do this himself and it will not surprise me if, at some stage, Cat is hurt by one of these experiments and Vincent has to hunt them down alone and control his emotions long enough to bring them in alive. I also liked the little bit of humour injected into the episode. It's nice to see Vincent and Heather interacting and I thought the fact that Vincent was keeping her secret about the break-up from Cat was like a little bonding moment. Clearly Heather was happy to tell Vincent about it because she knew he would not be judgemental but didn't want Cat to know straight away. Sisters can be competitive. The humour did not take up the whole episode, which was not like a st-com. But it was like a little bit of light before the dark. The episode ended on a dark note, afterall with the death of Agent Thomas. Now Cat and Vincent are on their own as far as the 'conspiracy' is concerned.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 15, 2015 13:48:49 GMT -5
Firstly, I am glad that many liked this episode. I was not overly keen on it so I am sorry for spreading negativity when so many of you loved it… I agree with every single point you've made. Won't post a review, as I totally agree with you and @locaxbatb. Just, yes, this episode reminded me of Ever After too, although Primal Fear did feel a bit more advanced cinematography wise to me, and was better paced. But how I felt after watching Ever After was different than this one. I do remember how angry I was after 2x20, and thought what a waste of episode it was (this one too, but now I'm like, oh well!), especially since we were not sure whether we'd be renewed for season 3 then. Last night I felt indifferent and yes, a bit disappointed. Had we not had another season in the bag, I'm sure I'd feel as angry as I did after 2x20. Oh and one more thing, I know many did enjoy the first scene, but I felt both Cat and Vincent were so out of character. We do need some comic relief to balance all the drama and action, and I'm all for it, but the way this scene was written and executed made me feel like I was watching a scene out of another show. It felt alien to me. It wasn't VinCat-y, if that makes any sense. It's no secret that most of us are in love with season 1, despite all its flaws and problems, oh and those lame cases of the week. But it had "something" that drew us in initially. That very "something" (sorry, can't find a better word ) was missing in most episodes last season. I saw hints of it in 3x01, and I really hoped we'd continue to see and feel it throughout this season. I'm all for change, and new story lines and arcs, characters, you name it. But I think whatever aspect of the show they wanted to change (and hey, again, I'm all for it), they should have left the heart of it intact; and that's VinCat. Let's face it, this is very much a character/relationship show, and as a fan, like Anna said, I want to see real, mature, meaningful conversations, interactions, and plots. I want to see things that are relevant to the true nature of this show. Break them up, have them fight, have them drive each other crazy, I don't care; so long as they evoke and generate emotions in me - deep, real, and raw. PS: I didn't want it to be long post, but I kinda got carried away. Sorry word!!!
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