|
Post by Laura on Jul 18, 2015 2:24:19 GMT -5
I agree. The way I look at it, Reynolds was behind Muirfield. In Who Am I he told Zao that Zao worked for him and that it was time to shut down Muirfield. So whether Reynolds had Thomas killed or Muirfield did it, Reynolds is either directly or indirectly responsible for killing off both of Cat's parents. Ironically, both of Cat's biological parents (Vanessa & Bob) were responsible for creating the Beast. Cat has every reason to be upset with her biological parents. But I had thought that Cat had come to terms with her mother in the episode Anniversary. Obviously she hadn't. Instead her feelings against her mother were bottled up inside, left festering and had gotten even worse. Until her emotions exploded at the bridal shower.Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs? I agree, she has every reason to be angry with them. But I hadn't realized how angry Cat still was with her Mom, and like you, I thought Anniversary was when she came to terms with Vanessa's involvement in Beasts projects. I was, however, a bit confused about all this bottled up anger. A very dear friend of mine mentioned a comment somewhere, which kind of cleared up my confusion. I think, for me at least, it all goes back to how Cat was written in Season 2. She forgave Gabe, who tried to kill not only her and Vincent, but all of them essentially, but not her Mom, who was actually a good person and had good intentions. Not only did she forgive him, but also she dated him (I still cringe at the thought of them together). They messed up her character last season by having her date Gabe (while she could have any other guy, including my personal favorite, the shrink dude from season 1). Regardless of how "lost" she was, that was just the most implausible plot. Anyway, going back to her parents, I think Bob's & Vanessa's past and them working for Muirfield would have been a very interesting plot to explore. Oh well..
|
|
|
Post by Laura on Jul 18, 2015 2:31:29 GMT -5
Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs?
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 18, 2015 3:23:52 GMT -5
Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs? lol ... i love gillian horvath ahaha
|
|
|
Post by kiki09 on Jul 18, 2015 11:56:59 GMT -5
Nope it's not just a quiet little bar. They're at the Il Cantuccio. Same place they shot the opening and closing coffee drinking scenes from the last episode 305. Most of the scenes shot at Il Cantuccio involve Cat drinking coffee, that's why I called it a coffee shop. Technically I guess it's really just a restaurant. But it's seems to have a coffee shop like section in the front, the middle restaurant/bar section, and the pool table section in the back (where Vincent and Gabe had their final battle in 222). But the point is they're in a public place and suddenly a stripper walks in and starts to do her thing? Just weird. They should have used the location where they shot the karaoke scene from S1 or some place similar. i agree. i personally (female beastie here) did not mind the strip thingie scene at all but the setting was just odd and did not make sense. there was no privacy whatsoever where they were - they were in full view. which coffee shop/bar/restaurant would allow that to happen? anyway.. that is the only thing that i was meh...ing about in this episode, so no biggie i guess Agreed! That stripper was hilarious because Vincent and JT were so awkward about it but the setting was nonsensical.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 14:47:38 GMT -5
Kind of weird episode, but I can understand the positive thoughts some have for 306. Sort of disjointed though, with numerous puzzling scenes.
It's been mentioned already, but the scene that just didn't work for me was the outburst from Cat at her shower. I never noticed in the previous seasons that Cat had any/much animosity for her mother, but then to all of a sudden have such a build up over it felt completely contrived to me. I would have also thought Heather would have been informed of all of this previously, since she's one of the inner circle now. And then you have two aunts and various other women aghast and wondering WTF Cat is talking about during her outburst. I guess the concept was to set up this contrived animosity in order to create a stark contrast for the scene at the end. (It did accomplish that.)
The scene at the end I'm sure had many fans emotional, but another episode that's (essentially) a misfire....in my humble opinion.
The stripper was hot.
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 18, 2015 15:12:41 GMT -5
Kind of weird episode, but I can understand the positive thoughts some have for 306. Sort of disjointed though, with numerous puzzling scenes. It's been mentioned already, but the scene that just didn't work for me was the outburst from Cat at her shower. I never noticed in the previous seasons that Cat had any/much animosity for her mother, but then to all of a sudden have such a build up over it felt completely contrived to me. I would have also thought Heather would have been informed of all of this previously, since she's one of the inner circle now. And then you have two aunts and various other women aghast and wondering WTF Cat is talking about during her outburst. I guess the concept was to set up this contrived animosity in order to create a stark contrast for the scene at the end. (It did accomplish that.) The scene at the end I'm sure had many fans emotional, but another episode that's (essentially) a misfire....in my humble opinion. The stripper was hot. Lol I agree with your last sentence No but seriously that scene did not feel contrived to me at all - the shower one. I always thought that cat was still unresolved with her mom.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 15:25:53 GMT -5
I don't disagree that her feelings were unresolved, but I just never sensed that amount of animosity towards her mother. I guess I just didn't pick up on it or wasn't as sensitive to it as other viewers. Oh well. I think there's still much the writers could explore with the Heather/Cat relationship. I don't think they've even touched the surface of the potential they have there.
Anyways, some other scenes that didn't work that well either, but they've already been mentioned previously. The motorcycle chase and stunt work was completely silly.
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 18, 2015 15:45:40 GMT -5
I don't disagree that her feelings were unresolved, but I just never sensed that amount of animosity towards her mother. I guess I just didn't pick up on it or wasn't as sensitive to it as other viewers. Oh well. I think there's still much the writers could explore with the Heather/Cat relationship. I don't think they've even touched the surface of the potential they have there. Anyways, some other scenes that didn't work that well either, but they've already been mentioned previously. The motorcycle chase and stunt work was completely silly. To me her feelings were not just anger towards her mom. It was partly that, partly guilt, partly increasing stress over what was going on and the future, partly frustration that no close relatives (not even heather) know the truth of exactly what happened. It was a combination of issues that led to her explosion. Regarding the heather cat relationship storyline I agree. They could do so much with that but I don't think they will. Regarding the motorbike stunt u re the expert lo, I wouldn't know. Clueless so didn't bother me.
|
|
|
Post by Laura on Jul 18, 2015 16:15:36 GMT -5
To me her feelings were not just anger towards her mom. It was partly that, partly guilt, partly increasing stress over what was going on and the future, partly frustration that no close relatives (not even heather) know the truth of exactly what happened. It was a combination of issues that led to her explosion. Regarding the heather cat relationship storyline I agree. They could do so much with that but I don't think they will. Regarding the motorbike stunt u re the expert lo, I wouldn't know. Clueless so didn't bother me. I agree with you, but as I said before I had never realized she harbored that much anger. I knew she held Vanessa responsible for what had happened to Vincent to some extent, but I just assumed she'd moved on, kind of, and also the guilt she felt was stronger than her anger. Honestly, I was surprised when she exploded like that. Again, it is an issue of consistent writing & character development I think. My initial confusion was mostly due to the inconsistencies Cat's character went through last season. That said, I don't think it was contrived though; on the contrary, it fit in well with the story, and also Cat's character - the Cat we knew. The way she was written (and I'm not even talking about Kristin's stellar performance) gave me season 1 vibes - the whole episode did actually.
|
|
|
Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 19, 2015 18:03:38 GMT -5
Here is my take on Cat's anger towards her Mom:
YES, she seemed to resolve some of the issues that she had about her mother and Muirfield in Season 1. She knew her mother kept secrets about her profession. BUT VINCENT AND GABE assured Cat that her mother was one of the good guys that attempted to assist both of them. So she seemed to believe that, AT THAT TIME, PRIOR to either VINCENT or GABE showing their inability to control their beast-sides or compromises to their judgment or morals that said beast-side would bring up.
AND we also HAVE to factor in the impact of Season 2 Revelations on Cat. Cat learns from Heather in "Liar, Liar" about the fact that Thomas wasn't her biological father. In that episode, episodes 305 AND 306, Cat makes remarks about her mother and "secrets." This was a WHOLE OTHER set of PERSONAL FAMILY-RELATED secrets that she had not been informed of by her mother. It was a deep betrayal to Cat. Cat even remarks that she "isn't sure of who she is anymore." And there are statements of anger directed towards her mother and even Thomas for not telling her about Bob.
Bob Reynolds tells Cat that the decision was made BY VANESSA (306) to not tell her and not involve Bob in anything prior to Cat turning 18. Well, as we all know, Vanessa never came clean to Cat about it. Probably because of 9/11 and everything that happened, Vanessa's research was accelerated and she was shipped out of the country. Cat was 19 at the time her mother was murdered, so Vanessa just ran out of time to tell Cat about all of her secrets from profession to personal. (Or Vanessa just didn't trust Bob anymore and maybe held threats/information over his head to keep him away from Cat. Wish we could learn more about this.)
I agree with other's assessment regarding Cat's grief and guilt as well. And we ALL know how Cat tries to just bury her unresolved issues in work or elsewhere until absolutely FORCED to confront them. And at the bridal shower, Cat just can't live with the lies anymore. YES, it was the worst possible time. HENCE, Cat's feelings of remorse and guilt by the time Tess finds her.
BUT am I alone in thinking that a bridal shower should NOT be about the dead parents? IT SHOULD BE ABOUT THE LIVING and the joy of the union. Or else, take a key from the BRIDE about who to mention at the showers and wedding. Could have avoided ALL that misery had SOMEONE bothered to listen to Cat and what she wanted for HER wedding in the first place.
And I may be alone in what I am fixing to say, but I still admire Cat for refusing to fake it. IT IS HER WEDDING, and no one should have made her have these family members. AGAIN, HEATHER OVERRODE CAT'S OWN wishes for her wedding and bridal shower. Cat has tried for so long to shelter Heather from the worst that their mother did, including her own suspicions. And Heather refused to LISTEN to Cat's reluctance, instead wanting people at the wedding that she thought "others" such as her Mother would want WITHOUT LISTENING to the actual bride, Cat. Cat's aunts had created their own version of Vanessa, and THEY made the wedding/shower all about her and not about Cat. AND THESE SAME AUNTS that cared SO much about Vanessa had obviously not even tried to keep up with her daughters over the years.
You end up feeling sorry for everyone. But Cat's extreme reluctance to want to see or interact with these aunts should have been a clue to Heather and should not have been forced upon her. Heather single-handedly almost seems to have taken the joy and anticipation out of the wedding and just never really has listened to Vincent or Cat's wishes regarding said wedding. Again, I get that Heather just thinks that others would want the same thing that she wanted.
I have personally enjoyed having Heather on BATB again, but in this episode, I DID get a little ticked at Heather continually failing to listen to Cat's wishes regarding what she wanted. IN BOTH VINCENT'S AND CAT'S situations, family members IMPOSE upon them about what they THINK they should want at their pre-nuptial ceremonies (strippers and cousins for Vincent, lanterns and never-ending discussions about dead people for Cat). And it works out well for no one (cousin gets shot, aunts get scarred for life). And Vincent and Cat end up feeling bad, until both seem to realize who their REAL family was. ONLY THING WAS, NEITHER OF THEM wanted those other family members present in the FIRST place. Others made them do it. And paid the price for it.
And Heather is trying to overcompensate for all that has gone wrong in her own life and in her desperation to be close to her sister once more. So still feeling sorry for EVERYONE, but particularly for Cat being put in a situation that she did EVERYTHING to avoid.
BUT LAST THING TO NOTE OF IMPORTANCE: Wouldn't you question your mother's judgment if she could have loved someone like Bob Reynolds, someone that if not directly involved with her death, was AT LEAST indirectly involved?
So with everyone of Bob's misdeeds AND attempts to kill Vincent, Cat would have been inwardly resenting her mother for her involvement with Bob. BUT YET SHE NEVER REMOVES HER MOTHER'S RING. Cat has always worn that ring that was her mother's. So GRIEF definitely plays a part as well. Plus guilt.
YOU SEE IN THAT PRISON SCENE from this episode how Cat still harbors A LOT of anger at Vanessa, and it seems clear that it is geared at the time that Bob and Vanessa were obviously working together on the beast experiments/with Muirfield. Bob sitting there defending Vanessa did not really do much to redeem her in Cat's eyes. Just actually made it a little worse, until Cat views the tape. Which BRINGS IT HOME to Cat that her mother really DID know her and understand her. Her mother even KNEW Cat would most likely resent her on some level and want Answers, since she knew Cat would ferret out the truth at some point. So she does her best to explain. And everyone ELSE telling Cat about her mother was not good enough--Cat needed her answers from the source.
And I agree that Vanessa's tape doesn't necessarily disclose new information for Cat. But Vanessa seems to allude to the fact that said tape was NOT to give answers but to explain her actions. Because she knows her daughter WILL find out about it all on her own AND will question her mother's involvement. And why she felt driven to do what she did. But what was important was her recitation of WHY she left the tape--she knew her daughter's commitment to Justice and Answers. So Cat's mom DID know her and valued her daughter's opinions and morals. Which was what Cat REALLY needed. To KNOW that her Mom DID know her WHICH MEANS that she also knew her mother as well.
Goes back to Vincent's statement from "Hothead" about Cat's MEMORIES and the feelings/emotions they evoked. And couldn't she trust said memories. But Cat COULDN'T trust those memories if she was wrong about the source. So she NEEDED that videotape to confirm what she previously thought about her mother.
|
|
|
Post by pippin on Jul 22, 2015 0:56:05 GMT -5
Nice review from At Stake magazine atstakemagazine.com/2015/07/21/beauty-and-the-beast-3-06-chasing-ghosts/And of course Catherine finally was able to confront her own ghosts in the anger she has felt for her mother and what she set in motion. The whole episode long, Kristin Kreuk, in a deeply moving performance, allowed us to ride Catherine’s emotional wave until it crashed in front of our eyes. Her anger and despair built until it couldn’t be contained any longer. The final scene where Cat sobs in anguish as she watches a tape of her mother making a confession of love and sacrifice almost made me feel like I was intruding on a genuine private moment. Cat is haunted not just by her anger but also her guilt. To her shock, the recording captured her mother’s very last moment, which is of course also the one that set her own story in motion. Without her mother there would be no Vincent, no mythic purpose; no Beauty and the Beast.Several people have mentioned Cat's feeling guilty, but I thought the whole point of that last scene between Vincent and Catherine back in the Pilot was that she helped him feel less like a monster and he helped alleviate the guilt she felt over her mom's death. Cat: Do you know why I keep asking about my mom? Because I'm the reason that she's dead. If I hadn't left the stupid vanity mirror open... But, Vincent, I just found six cases of you trying to save victims around the city. You're not a monster. I would know. There are a lot of guys out there that are, but... You saved my life. Twice. Vincent: Catherine, wait. You're not the reason your mom's dead. They were tracking her. I'm not sure why, but it wasn't your fault.
|
|
|
Post by cacosa on Jul 22, 2015 4:32:10 GMT -5
Nice review from At Stake magazine atstakemagazine.com/2015/07/21/beauty-and-the-beast-3-06-chasing-ghosts/And of course Catherine finally was able to confront her own ghosts in the anger she has felt for her mother and what she set in motion. The whole episode long, Kristin Kreuk, in a deeply moving performance, allowed us to ride Catherine’s emotional wave until it crashed in front of our eyes. Her anger and despair built until it couldn’t be contained any longer. The final scene where Cat sobs in anguish as she watches a tape of her mother making a confession of love and sacrifice almost made me feel like I was intruding on a genuine private moment. Cat is haunted not just by her anger but also her guilt. To her shock, the recording captured her mother’s very last moment, which is of course also the one that set her own story in motion. Without her mother there would be no Vincent, no mythic purpose; no Beauty and the Beast.Several people have mentioned Cat's feeling guilty, but I thought the whole point of that last scene between Vincent and Catherine back in the Pilot was that she helped him feel less like a monster and he helped alleviate the guilt she felt over her mom's death. Cat: Do you know why I keep asking about my mom? Because I'm the reason that she's dead. If I hadn't left the stupid vanity mirror open... But, Vincent, I just found six cases of you trying to save victims around the city. You're not a monster. I would know. There are a lot of guys out there that are, but... You saved my life. Twice. Vincent: Catherine, wait. You're not the reason your mom's dead. They were tracking her. I'm not sure why, but it wasn't your fault. IMO, guilt has always been inside of Catherine, may be that first conversation with Vincent calmed it down a bit, but nothing more
|
|
|
Post by Bill the beast on Jul 22, 2015 10:39:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 23, 2015 11:58:09 GMT -5
Please tell me this was a good episode tonight?? I read somewhere that Kristin, Cat, gave a very emotional scene? Please may I have details? Thanks in advance. I love when KK cries.......so emotional. I will cry too. Denise you will love it! It was a great episode! Reminded me of why I fell in love with Kristin when I first saw her in SV. She was amazing! We both know how she perfects drama and emotional and crying!! I can't wait for you to watch the ep Clena, where did you go girl? Please check your pm at SWEET and here. You know ! Please keep in touch. And yes, I loved Kristin's performance. Took me back to the Lana days....she still has it! I couldn't help but tear up remind me of "Promise" and "Requiem". *sigh. Hugs to you my SWEET friend.
|
|
|
Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jul 25, 2015 14:11:56 GMT -5
I agree. The way I look at it, Reynolds was behind Muirfield. In Who Am I he told Zao that Zao worked for him and that it was time to shut down Muirfield. So whether Reynolds had Thomas killed or Muirfield did it, Reynolds is either directly or indirectly responsible for killing off both of Cat's parents. Ironically, both of Cat's biological parents (Vanessa & Bob) were responsible for creating the Beast. Cat has every reason to be upset with her biological parents. But I had thought that Cat had come to terms with her mother in the episode Anniversary. Obviously she hadn't. Instead her feelings against her mother were bottled up inside, left festering and had gotten even worse. Until her emotions exploded at the bridal shower.Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs? I agree, she has every reason to be angry with them. But I hadn't realized how angry Cat still was with her Mom, and like you, I thought Anniversary was when she came to terms with Vanessa's involvement in Beasts projects. I was, however, a bit confused about all this bottled up anger. A very dear friend of mine mentioned a comment somewhere, which kind of cleared up my confusion. I think, for me at least, it all goes back to how Cat was written in Season 2. She forgave Gabe, who tried to kill not only her and Vincent, but all of them essentially, but not her Mom, who was actually a good person and had good intentions. Not only did she forgive him, but also she dated him (I still cringe at the thought of them together). They messed up her character last season by having her date Gabe (while she could have any other guy, including my personal favorite, the shrink dude from season 1). Regardless of how "lost" she was, that was just the most implausible plot. Anyway, going back to her parents, I think Bob's & Vanessa's past and them working for Muirfield would have been a very interesting plot to explore. Oh well.. I don't think Cat had resolved her feelings about her mother. She said she was conflicted. I think she was still disappointed that her mother had so many secrets and that she didn't really know her as well as she thought she did. I think she put it all on the back burner in season 2 because Muirfield was gone and everything appeared to have turned out alright. When her aunts came, she was obviously anxious because she knew they would make the whole bridal shower about her mother. And they did. It felt more like a wake. They wanted to invite her dead mother's spirit to the shower and were going on about what a wonderful, caring person she was and how she looked after sick children. Yes, children that were being experimented on like Gabe. She then went on to experiment on soldiers like Vincent. She did alot of harm at the end of the day and I think I would be conflicted about her if she was my mother. I think Cat was just sick of hearing all about all the good 'Saint Vanessa' had done and wanted to shed some light on the harm she had done too. I think it was completely understandable for her to explode like she did.
|
|