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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 17, 2014 21:46:42 GMT -5
And Gabe's whole excuse is that Vincent is a "criminal." Which Gabe voluntarily chose to make himself in the previous year. Gabe had been willing to even kill in cold blood if it would help him. And sacrifice the woman he was with who had done EVERYTHING for him (Tyler).
And I love Cat putting the best spin on the VinCat relationship while on the roof that even if Vincent is having to hide out, it is "romantic" with their stolen moments. And the two holding each other while looking out over the city. So poignant and beautiful and symbolic of their relationship! Because their backs are to the audience while they look off, together, into the future. LOVE that!
This episode really shows everyone's true colors and loyalties (go Tess!) and cements the battle-lines for the rest of the season. (And introduces the new ally for the rest of the season as well.)
Thanks Susy for watching the episode with me! (I am assuming that everyone is off voting for the PCA Awards, which is a totally worthy cause.) But I miss our fellow Beastie family members! Hopefully, they will all chime in when they get a chance to rest their weary fingers and re-watch the episode!
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Post by susy on Nov 17, 2014 21:48:33 GMT -5
Vin and Cat are so sad about losing the exoneration! It breaks my heart, but Cat slapping Gabe made my day!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 17, 2014 21:49:15 GMT -5
And that is the other beautiful momentous thing about this episode: none of the other characters doubt again about which side they are on. And Vincent and Catherine are committed to coming out of this thing TOGETHER, one way or another. And they plan everything together and really ARE better together than apart. LOVE THIS!!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 17, 2014 21:50:21 GMT -5
Oh, and Cat slapping Gabe made EVERYBODY'S day! Beasties everywhere across the world could be heard cheering, no matter what language they were cheering in!
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Post by susy on Nov 17, 2014 21:54:20 GMT -5
And Gabe's whole excuse is that Vincent is a "criminal." Which Gabe voluntarily chose to make himself in the previous year. Gabe had been willing to even kill in cold blood if it would help him. And sacrifice the woman he was with who had done EVERYTHING for him (Tyler). And I love Cat putting the best spin on the VinCat relationship while on the roof that even if Vincent is having to hide out, it is "romantic" with their stolen moments. And the two holding each other while looking out over the city. So poignant and beautiful and symbolic of their relationship! Because their backs are to the audience while they look off, together, into the future. LOVE that! This episode really shows everyone's true colors and loyalties (go Tess!) and cements the battle-lines for the rest of the season. (And introduces the new ally for the rest of the season as well.) Thanks Susy for watching the episode with me! (I am assuming that everyone is off voting for the PCA Awards, which is a totally worthy cause.) But I miss our fellow Beastie family members! Hopefully, they will all chime in when they get a chance to rest their weary fingers and re-watch the episode!Thank you! It is always a pleasure to share the rewatch with people who like BATB as much as I do and get new perspectives. Meet you next week! Have a great week!
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Post by jefferen on Nov 17, 2014 22:28:02 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! I totally forgot bout the rewatch! I'll post some thoughts tomorrow night! Sorry I missed it
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Nov 18, 2014 3:01:08 GMT -5
Ok when I first watched the episode I was not that drawn to it but now I really like it What I loved -how Vincent immediately realises he cant leave cat - vincent and Gabe's confrontation in cats apartment. Power full. Vincents tear when he fears for cats safety - so subtle but so intense. Seriously jay is such a good actor!!! -jt in the whole episode, his loyalty to Vincent and his interactions with Tess. Also Austin was brilliant in the Gabe interactions. So funny the shot when we think it is v but it is jt and how he reacts when the lights are on him. Too funny - Tess was great. I like how we ourselves were not sure whose side she was on thougb I did trust she was on the good side - cat kicking ass and vincat jumping from the building - vincat working together and realising they are better as a team - the final vincat sxen beautiful. And very reminiscent of s1 - the slap! Yeah baby What I was not that keen on A few of the vincat scenes were a bit repetitive about how they are better together. Actions speak louder than words and also stating the theme of the episode so blatantly over and over again weakens the episode. The audience is not stupid.
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Post by raniamahd on Nov 18, 2014 10:16:31 GMT -5
Ok when I first watched the episode I was not that drawn to it but now I really like it What I loved -how Vincent immediately realises he cant leave cat - vincent and Gabe's confrontation in cats apartment. Power full. Vincents tear when he fears for cats safety - so subtle but so intense. Seriously jay is such a good actor!!! -jt in the whole episode, his loyalty to Vincent and his interactions with Tess. Also Austin was brilliant in the Gabe interactions. So funny the shot when we think it is v but it is jt and how he reacts when the lights are on him. Too funny - Tess was great. I like how we ourselves were not sure whose side she was on thougb I did trust she was on the good side - cat kicking ass and vincat jumping from the building - vincat working together and realising they are better as a team - the final vincat sxen beautiful. And very reminiscent of s1 - the slap! Yeah baby What I was not that keen on A few of the vincat scenes were a bit repetitive about how they are better together. Actions speak louder than words and also stating the theme of the episode so blatantly over and over again weakens the episode. The audience is not stupid. i agree i didn't like this episode very much when i first saw it , but that maybe because it came after the amazing ep 17 ?! you know we tend to undermine things which follow amazing things even if they aren't that bad ( or not bad at all but just not as good as its previous ) and we overrate things comes after along disappointment even if they aren't that amazing ! i like the ep now ( not like ep 17 of course but in neutral standard ) i agree with the reasons you mentioned for liking it , and i would like to add something more : lets say that episode confirmed things we thought / suspected / argue about them ! it also move things they always talk about it from the talking stage to action stage ?! i mean how many time vincat talked about fighting together .? how many time one of them plead with the other to do so ? now finally they are in the same page and decided once and for all that is what they do from now on ! and now we know who is the friend /the ally and who is the enemy ! Gabe kept saying ( pick a side ) he said it to Cat in ep15 and said it in this ep to Tess , and now everyone did pick a side including himself ! i would give him the benefit of doubt and say that he thought of being a good guy and made amend for all the horribles he did his whole life till last year but he finally pick a side ?a side where he is a real monster , a beast for life time who only gets worse like Cat said to him , its his choice because i believe we always have a choice ! i don't know exactly if that is because its his nature in the first place or because he didn't have a real motive to change ? or maybe both ! his motive to try to make amend or be a good guy and blame the beast DNA for his sins was his ego ! he is the kind of person who doesn't care to do the right thing but cares more for people to think that he always does the right thing ! it was never about love for him ? i guess now there is no doubt he never really loved Cat ! not after he tried to slay her when he was sure he lost for real this time and he had the gem on his neck so it was him not the beast ( i always knew it was always him not the beast but he always denied ) it was a game for him and it was always about winning ! so he didn't stand to loss or to be rejected ! that the real motive for all of his action , not protecting Cat or justice ! because again putting everyone she cares about in danger and trying to slay her is not protection ! and if he really believes what he said about justice and that no one is above the law then he should start with himself first and apply the law on himself for his previous crimes or anytime in the upcoming episodes for his future crimes ! Mr . Kern said that they deceived us and made us believe Gabe really changed ?! it seems like a joke to me because the beasts always knew he didn't , even SR said on twitter something about leopard never changes his skin ! anyway this episode confirmed that and was the start of his long way to self destruct or being a monster till death and to make the comparison clear and complete between what Gabe ended to and what Vincent ended to because of their choices , confirmed that we are the ones who write our fate and we always have a choice , + of course to give credit to the power of love for changing people's life for better all of this + the slap on Gabe's face which made all the beasties day ?! yeah that made a decent episode for me
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Post by jefferen on Nov 18, 2014 10:43:05 GMT -5
Ok when I first watched the episode I was not that drawn to it but now I really like it What I loved -how Vincent immediately realises he cant leave cat - vincent and Gabe's confrontation in cats apartment. Power full. Vincents tear when he fears for cats safety - so subtle but so intense. Seriously jay is such a good actor!!! -jt in the whole episode, his loyalty to Vincent and his interactions with Tess. Also Austin was brilliant in the Gabe interactions. So funny the shot when we think it is v but it is jt and how he reacts when the lights are on him. Too funny - Tess was great. I like how we ourselves were not sure whose side she was on thougb I did trust she was on the good side - cat kicking ass and vincat jumping from the building - vincat working together and realising they are better as a team - the final vincat sxen beautiful. And very reminiscent of s1 - the slap! Yeah baby What I was not that keen on A few of the vincat scenes were a bit repetitive about how they are better together. Actions speak louder than words and also stating the theme of the episode so blatantly over and over again weakens the episode. The audience is not stupid. i agree i didn't like this episode very much when i first saw it , but that maybe because it came after the amazing ep 17 ?! you know we tend to undermine things which follow amazing things even if they aren't that bad ( or not bad at all but just not as good as its previous ) and we overrate things comes after along disappointment even if they aren't that amazing ! i like the ep now ( not like ep 17 of course but in neutral standard ) i agree with the reasons you mentioned for liking it , and i would like to add something more : lets say that episode confirmed things we thought / suspected / argue about them ! it also move things they always talk about it from the talking stage to action stage ?! i mean how many time vincat talked about fighting together .? how many time one of them plead with the other to do so ? now finally they are in the same page and decided once and for all that is what they do from now on ! and now we now who is the friend /the ally and who is the enemy ! Gabe kept saying ( pick a side ) he said it to Cat in ep15 and said it in this ep to Tess , and now everyone did pick a side including himself ! i would give him the benefit of doubt and say that he thought of being a good guy and made amend for all the horribles he did his whole life till last year but he finally pick a side ?a side where he is a real monster , a beast for life time who only gets worse like Cat said to him , its his choice because i believe we always have a choice ! i don't know exactly if that is because its his nature in the first place or because he didn't have a real motive to change ? or maybe both ! his motive to try to make amend or be a good guy and blame the beast DNA for his sins was his ego ! he is the kind of person who doesn't care to do the right thing but cares more for people to think that he always does the right thing ! it was never about love for him ? i guess now there is no doubt he never really loved Cat ! not after he tried to slay her when he was sure he lost for real this time and he had the gem on his neck so it was him not the beast ( i always knew it was always him not the beast but he always denied ) it was a game for him and it was always about winning ! so he didn't stand to loss or to be rejected ! that the real motive for all of his action , not protecting Cat or justice ! because again putting everyone she cares about in danger and trying to slay her is not protection ! and if he really believes what he said about justice and that no one is above the law then he should start with himself first and apply the law on himself for his previous crimes or anytime in the upcoming episodes for his future crimes ! Mr . Kern said that they deceived us and made us believe Gabe really changed ?! it seems like a joke to me because the beasts always knew he didn't , even SR said on twitter something about leopard never changes his skin ! anyway this episode confirmed that and was the start of his long way to self destruct or being a monster till death and to make the comparison clear and complete between what Gabe ended to and what Vincent ended to because of their choices , confirmed that we are the ones who write our fate and we always have a choice , + of course to give credit to the power of love for changing people's life for better all of this + the slap on Gabe's face which made all the beasties day ?! yeah that made a decent episode for me Agreed! Love your post:)
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 18, 2014 15:27:41 GMT -5
A last thought on the episode:
I know many Beasties were disturbed to hear Cat say that she had loved and trusted Gabe. However, the way that I see this is the fact that for much of the season, Vincent appeared to be like Season 1 Gabe in that he appeared selfish, motivated only to achieve his own goals regarding his Beast heritage, unconcerned about the lives he had to take in order to achieve his mission objective, and uncaring if his actions jeopardized Cat's career or life. And Catherine had loved Vincent because he was the kind of man that had put the safety of others above himself. So at midseason, Vincent looked like the deranged beast Gabe had been in Season 1, and Gabe looked like Vincent--a man determined to seek redemption, even at the cost of his own life.
So Cat had really believed in Gabe. As she tells Heather in episode 219, she would never be with someone that she didn't think was a good man. So I see Cat as having loved a man that she thought embodied everything that Vincent had previously stood for. Once Vincent again becomes the good man that he had been, Cat cannot help but love him again, particularly as her eyes get opened to Gabe's REAL motivations, insecurities, and just downright evilness. So Cat ever only loved what turned out to be a figment of her imagination, a Gabe that was just pretending to look like Vincent. And for that reason, I don't have a problem with Cat saying that she had "loved" Gabe. Cat really DID try to make the relationship work, even at the cost of her own better judgment, because she tried to follow through with building on a relationship she chose to start. And that says something about Cat's character in that she DOES NOT use people but really tries to enter into relationships intending to build something solid.
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Post by ArwenFan on Nov 26, 2014 0:30:13 GMT -5
I said this during the season and will repeat it again, I don't believe Catherine EVER loved Gabe. Her actions while with Gabe screamed indecision and conflict. She settled for Gabe because Vincent had pushed her out of his life. But I don't believe she ever stopped loving Vincent. I took her "I loved you" to mean "I slept with you." I have no idea why she trusted Gabe, that decision made her look bad IMO. I also don't understand why she continued to make excuses for Gabe after this episode when she knew he was working against her and Vincent. All the times she said "he thinks he's protecting me from you" in Vincent's presence really grated on and annoyed me to the point I thought Cat was being deliberately obtuse.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 1, 2014 10:29:18 GMT -5
Arwenfan,
I agree in the belief that Catherine only shared her bed with Gabe, not her heart. However, I do think Catherine tried to be downright deliberately obtuse as to her true feelings for Gabe. She made a point of telling Heather in 219 that she would never be with someone that was not a good man. She still hadn't come to terms (at least, not at that time) with the real fact that Gabe never truly was a good man. Cat just doesn't want to realize just how bad some of her decisions were, in part because Cat would never want to see herself as having used Gabe to try to get over Vincent (which is what I truly believe she did. Just not overtly intentionally.). You could see, over and over again, when Cat was with Gabe that she really wasn't ever in love or looking to make the connection permanent--anytime Gabe offered a key or made hints to something more permanent (like the scene in his apartment with the key or when he brought out the ring at the ball), Catherine always blanched and looked horrified and taken aback. Yet Cat thought she was "moving on" and "moving forwards."
Cat not knowing or trusting her self coincided with what Vincent himself had gone through earlier in the season. We were supposed to see the parallels between the two and the journey they were taking to get back to one another. Which included trying on other people, much to my distaste and that of the whole BATB-related universe.
I also believe that is why Cat goes so loco with Gabe in 221 and almost kills him. It is the inner rage that Catherine has built up over the year with Gabe. That was the part of Cat that she suppressed (her actual better judgment) that told her she shouldn't move quickly into a relationship with Gabe. (Which sadly went out the window after she saw Vincent mourning Tori in Episode 212--before that, Cat was NOT going to be pushed into a relationship with Gabe. But after what she sees in the dungeon cell, she launches immediately into the relationship with Gabe, although she almost downright pleads with Vincent to talk her out of it in Episode 213.) Cat is mad at herself for not realizing before just how truly self-centered and depraved Gabe is. So Cat's suppressed anger just goes all out on Gabe. Cat had tried all season to fix others and herself, and she just truly comes unraveled in this scene in part because she had made poor decisions that had caught up with her and others. But no one was allowed to be free of bad choices in Season 2, and all those bad choices result in the ultimate showdown in 222. Everything was off the rails this past season, and it took the whole season to ultimately right the wrong decisions that all the characters made.
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