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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 3, 2014 22:19:03 GMT -5
Yes, that was one of the things never really answered. Obviously, Vincent had to be away from the houseboat while the hired guy put the heart in the fridge. But Bob Reynolds would not have wanted to risk Cat walking in during the placement of the heart, since the bad guy would do anything NOT to be caught. So someone would have needed to monitor Cat's position. My thoughts have always been that Bob had old contacts at the Ball as well, since he would have known many of the people that were backing Muirfield. So they would see that Vincent and Catherine were at the ball together. And Bob had already heard in a previous episode that Vincent and Catherine were working the Sam case together. So he would have surmised that a VinCat reconciliation was already in the realm of possibilities.
It still leaves open about who actually murdered the prison guard and the guy Bob hired to place the heart. I mean, the government agency claimed to be all about saving people. So there was no admission that they did this. So I am assuming that this is a thread that will get addressed in Season 3.
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Post by jefferen on Nov 3, 2014 22:50:20 GMT -5
Yes, that was one of the things never really answered. Obviously, Vincent had to be away from the houseboat while the hired guy put the heart in the fridge. But Bob Reynolds would not have wanted to risk Cat walking in during the placement of the heart, since the bad guy would do anything NOT to be caught. So someone would have needed to monitor Cat's position. My thoughts have always been that Bob had old contacts at the Ball as well, since he would have known many of the people that were backing Muirfield. So they would see that Vincent and Catherine were at the ball together. And Bob had already heard in a previous episode that Vincent and Catherine were working the Sam case together. So he would have surmised that a VinCat reconciliation was already in the realm of possibilities. It still leaves open about who actually murdered the prison guard and the guy Bob hired to place the heart. I mean, the government agency claimed to be all about saving people. So there was no admission that they did this. So I am assuming that this is a thread that will get addressed in Season 3. Agreed. Hopefully it will be addressed in S3. They wrote it that IMO that guys after V ultimately ( homeland security) were the ones that killed salvo & the prison guard, but like you said homeland security boasts on saving people so why would they just outright kill those other people. But They did want V to kill Gabe...and V called them out on people knowing about beasts publicly and talking about it and then ultimately getting killed....I just hope they don't leave it as another unanswered plot hole
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Post by raniamahd on Nov 4, 2014 4:53:09 GMT -5
"What can you do that I can't" from Gabe to Vincent. Really Gabe? Do you want me to answer that? Would take a REALLY long post. not exactly i can answer that question in just 2 simple words : everything lol
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Post by raniamahd on Nov 4, 2014 6:02:21 GMT -5
thanks for your precious reviews i really enjoyed reading all of them this ep is one i don't mind rewatching it over and over , even with Cat 's stubborn head and her insisting on keep living in denial ! so her night with V was because of her libido ? we have a say its meaning is ( the excuse is worse than the fault itself ) ! i mean really Cat if that is your reason or excuse for cheating on you very new sexual partner with your ex boyfriend , so what that says about her and about that called relationship with Gabe ?! you just spent a few days with the guy and already gor bored and had a libido for another guy ?! isn't the beginning of a sexual relation suppose to be hot and the two partner can't keep their hands off each other and have eyes only for each other ? till of course the sex get old and boring because nothing they didn't see or did before ?! but yet Cat left her new unexpired bed to go back to her old familiar and still as libido for him /it ! that should be a hint to her that this called relationship with Gabe was expired before it even started if she didn't figure it all out yet ! but yet her stubborn head didn't let her admit it ! i get that she had doubt about V's changing and didn't want to go back to the way their relation was but did she really think that being with someone she didn't love and her whole relation with him was based on her fear of going back to V without any guarantee , some one she did easily cheated on him just a few day after they started , is that is a better option ?! so how can she be sure that wouldn't happen again if she choose to stay with Gabe ?! may be she and V should be in two different faraway countries to guarantee that she wont be alone in one place with him again so she won't have libido for him again and be faithful to Gabe at least she didn't deny the night was great ! actually Vincent was the one who said it was great , Cat said it was very great we all notice his face expression when he said it but did you notice Cat's expression when she said ( very great ) priceless it's amazing that how the two parts of her ( heart and body) which don't take orders from Gabe or even from her brain can't lie unlike her mind ! i won't add much on commenting to the episode because you said it all in the best way , i would just enjoy rewatch the rest episodes of S2 from this to the final and hoping to hear something soon about the air date of S3
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Post by NotOnTv on Nov 4, 2014 14:14:10 GMT -5
On a shallow note, Kristin Kreuk has never looked more beautiful than in that green dress. I kept asking myself if this face and that nose crinkle when she smiles are for real because nobody should be allowed to be that beautiful in real life. Only in fairy tales.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Nov 4, 2014 16:07:53 GMT -5
On a shallow note, Kristin Kreuk has never looked more beautiful than in that green dress. I kept asking myself if this face and that nose crinkle when she smiles are for real because nobody should be allowed to be that beautiful in real life. Only in fairy tales. Vincent said it best in this episode: "Why is she so beautiful?..."
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Post by tenshi on Nov 4, 2014 17:15:23 GMT -5
My rewatch again late. You already said all I love about the openning scene of this ep and the convos between Cat and Tess and Vincent and JT. I specially love that Jay could show his comedic talent in this episode. He can pull it all off. Love Vincent being so confident about his and her feelings in the phone conversation with Cat. S1 Vincent wouldn't have been that confident. The convo between Tess and JT also great. Talked to Cat-maybe. Talked to Vincent -maybe . Great lines: how could she leave without saying a word? Ok down boy- if a dude would left in the middle of the night it would be standard operating procedure but for Cat it is a capital offense? Don't make this a gender thing. I don't like Vincent pushing JTs chair - although it was meant to be funny. I always thought with the noise he must have been hurt. Gabe: I am disappointed. You are allowed to change your mind. Gee and then you forgot that in the next few lines you said to Cat. (puke)Hate Gabe lecturing Vincent! He is such a hypocrite. But great that Cat interrupts him! Vincent: what she said and then this smile! Again love love love confident Vincent. Love Cat rolling her eyes when Vincent and Gabe were arguing on the staircase and then she listens to Vincent arguments. Vincent's little smile before going to do " the interview"
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Post by tenshi on Nov 4, 2014 18:19:54 GMT -5
So the rest of my rewatch is lost due to a crash of the browser. Now I'm to tired to do it again. Sorry maybe tomorrow.
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Post by jefferen on Nov 4, 2014 20:28:21 GMT -5
My rewatch again late. You already said all I love about the openning scene of this ep and the convos between Cat and Tess and Vincent and JT. I specially love that Jay could show his comedic talent in this episode. He can pull it all off. Love Vincent being so confident about his and her feelings in the phone conversation with Cat. S1 Vincent wouldn't have been that confident.
The convo between Tess and JT also great. Talked to Cat-maybe. Talked to Vincent -maybe . Great lines: how could she leave without saying a word? Ok down boy- if a dude would left in the middle of the night it would be standard operating procedure but for Cat it is a capital offense? Don't make this a gender thing. I don't like Vincent pushing JTs chair - although it was meant to be funny. I always thought with the noise he must have been hurt. Gabe: I am disappointed. You are allowed to change your mind. Gee and then you forgot that in the next few lines you said to Cat. (puke)Hate Gabe lecturing Vincent! He is such a hypocrite. But great that Cat interrupts him! Vincent: what she said and then this smile! Again love love love confident Vincent. Love Cat rolling her eyes when Vincent and Gabe were arguing on the staircase and then she listens to Vincent arguments. Vincent's little smile before going to do " the interview" Love confident V. And you are right! S1 V would've never been so confident or bold with Cat. Confident V fighting what he wants is so sexy! The most confident you see V in S1 is in 1x18 the train scene w/ Evan. V: Or maybe shes in love with me? Hmmm Confident V mixed in w/ jealously is HOT!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Nov 6, 2014 2:17:01 GMT -5
I think this episode showed the feels we were needing from the beginning of the season.When Vincent was found and the first 8 episodes before Catherine shot him Vincent wasn't really the Vincent we knew. He was off and when they split up he realized that he couldn't really keep away from the pull he felt for Catherine. He began being the old Vincent in Held Hostage and from then on it was a matter of time before he focused on the one thing that would make him a better person CATHERINE. I think it took her longer cause she was too busy trying to suppress her feelings for him to realize what a change he had done. Only when she saw the way he tried talking Sam down did it hit her that not only that was the old Vincent she fell in love with but a better version of him. It's the Vincent 3.0 I fell in love with and the reason why I changed my username LOL Vincent and CATHERINE 3.0
AS FOR THE EPISODE in general I loved the rooftop scene it was so romantic and 'Guiding Light' made it all more emotional for me. SWOON worthy
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Nov 10, 2014 18:59:37 GMT -5
Some final but important thoughts that I had when re-watching this episode YET AGAIN. (Because I just love it so.)
This is the REVERSE of 202's "Kidnapped" for Vincent. In that episode, Vincent gave into the moment with Catherine on the boathouse, and they had sex. Vincent later rebukes Catherine when she follows him to the club for being too possessive, that they weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, and that it was a one-night stand. So this is karma for Vincent, so to speak. CATHERINE now wants to say that what happened was in the moment and meant as break-up sex (a one-night stand, in other words, that is NOT to happen again), that they ARE NOT back together and that it does not mean anything. So Vincent gets to feel the agony Catherine had to feel way back in episode 202.
But UNLIKE in "Kidnapped," Vincent finally knows himself and what he wants. AND he sets about convincing Catherine that they are meant to be and destined, exactly as Cat had argued in 201 and 202. So I LIKED the shoe being on the other foot here.
And you GET where Catherine is coming from. In episode 205 ("Reunion"), Vincent just shows up at Cat's place and CLEARLY wants to have sex ("trigger some memories"). And he is downright irritated when Catherine won't just cancel her plans to fall into bed with him. Yet Vincent TOTALLY lacked romance. He just shows up expecting Catherine to be ready to go to bed with him because he wants to. There is no romance or attempts to woo Catherine. And you can tell that Catherine is not at all tempted to just fall into bed with Vincent just because he might have sexual urges for her. Cat wants the romance and relationship back that she had with Vincent in Season 1.
Fast forward to Episode 216. At the beginning, we have that beautiful montage of SEASON 1 VINCENT memories for Cat. They were ALL from ROMANTIC moments between them. And the Vincent in Season 1 had romanced Catherine AND told her that he was "so in love with" her before the two ever went to bed together. So the two coming together memories that Catherine is re-living are ALL from moments with HEAVY romance attached to them. Where Vincent had gone that extra mile JUST to be with her. Such as showing up at a wedding when he is supposed to be dead AND could beast-out depending on the circumstances. But he wants so badly to be the boyfriend that she wants and to make these sacrifices for her. And Vincent in AMP and "Insatiable" is so tender and loving with Catherine. You would NEVER mistake any of THESE moments as ones where Vincent just casually showed up wanting sex with no tender endearments or romance.
And then Cat wakes up. Beside a Season 2 Vincent who is holding her possessively. Meaning it is all about Vincent and his wants and needs. So Catherine is probably reminded of Season 2 Vincent that wanted what he wanted when it was convenient for him. And the sex had once again happened WITHOUT any declarations of love or confirmation about where they were in the relationship. In fact, from the words said, Vincent had agreed to Cat being with Gabe without posing any problems with this arrangement OR given any verbal cues that he disagreed with her decision. So Cat probably wondered HERSELF what the sex actually meant and whether or not she wanted to continue to fall into bed with a guy that might not love her or just wanted her when someone else did (or because he lacked other options).
And Catherine doesn't want to be the one-night stand type. She is supposed to be in some kind of relationship with Gabe. Who DID do the whole romance thing with her in Mexico. And Cat was left wondering WHY it didn't mean more to her than it did (which we all knew was because she REALLY loved Vincent and was NOT over him by any means). So Catherine just wakes up from remembering sweet and loving Season 1 Vincent to Season 2 Vincent and not knowing if he is REALLY changed for good. Just explains why she splits.
And again, Vincent still has to redeem himself for his treatment of Catherine. First, by trying to just make her his booty call early on in Season 2. Then for all the Tori stuff and that absolute Hell that he put her through. So Catherine (and me) NEEDED to see Vincent pursue her AND tell her that it was LOVE and DESTINY and all the wonderful things that it really was. Vincent had to TELL Catherine and show that his words were supported by ACTIONS.
So Vincent's constantly breaking into the case to question Catherine's feelings and plans would lead Catherine to wonder if Vincent has changed. Yet Vincent never varies from wanting to solve the case in order to help others. He is NOT that early callous version of Vincent. But Catherine HAS to see that first before she will again risk her heart on Vincent. So I liked the whole karma switcharoo that goes on in this episode. Catherine NEEDS to be pursued AND wooed. She needs to be able to assert her Independence and that it is HER choice what she does. And Caherine was probably tired of following her heart up until this point because she HAD been so betrayed.
So I like that Vincent just takes Catherine's verbal abuse and just keeps on coming. Vincent understands NOW where it is coming from. And he is DETERMINED to show Catherine that he has returned to the man that she loves ("I'll SHOW you change, Catherine Chandler!"). She will never again be some casual booty call. (And we know that she never really was a booty call, in either 202 or 205, because Vncent just hadn't then had a chance to get beyond his trauma and programming back to the emotional person that he was that COULD be capable of loving Catherine fully.) And Catherine fully understands by the end BECAUSE Vincent sticks by her side and fights her battles with her AND supports her decisions, all while TELLING her that he loves her and wants to be with her forever. So I LOVED this. Vincent understanding what Catherine REALLY means, despite what she says. And it all comes down to her NOT wanting to be hurt again and deserted because of some foolish quest for revenge.
STILL my favorite episode. That's right Vincent, you have to FIGHT for your woman! She's got to KNOW you really love her!
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Post by NotOnTv on Dec 9, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -5
-Catherine. - Vincent, not now. - When? -Later.
This scene never NOT cracks me up. Such a great comical timing on both parts. And the delivery. Just perfect. Forever rewind.
Also Jay's delivery of "I never want to hurt you again" gives me goosebumps. Every single time. I love the way he breathes the line. His nostrils. Yes, I am a sad person. I notice these little things.
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Post by fairydreams on Dec 10, 2014 12:06:32 GMT -5
I give attention to the words, the expressions, but also give the gestures. Loved when Cat instinctively wakes Vincent with a caress on his back. And when he turns to her , Cat continues stroking soft and tenderly his chest. Showing that Cat wants to be with Vincent and she will not run away from him ever again. She is no longer insecure or indecisive. Vincent is her men her soulmate ... I found it cute...
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Dec 10, 2014 13:26:25 GMT -5
Amen, Fairydreams.
I love that the scene is just so many things: sweet, funny, romantic, intimate. . . You get the point. They are familiar with each other, in such a good way. Not just in a I-know-your-body look and feel but a real I-know-and-accept-all-of-you look. They are both obviously confident about where they expect to go in the relationship. But I also love Vincent's little-boy-lost look that he gives Catherine when he tells her that he doesn't ever want to hurt her again. And she tells him that she knows this. She just looks at him with such understanding and is telling him that she trusts him now not to hurt her. I love this particular little moment and exchange between the two of them. It is just downright precious! Again, still yet another reason why this is my favorite episode of Season 2. You can BELIEVE that they are back together, no matter what.
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