rose
Army Recruit
Posts: 133
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Post by rose on Oct 21, 2014 3:28:24 GMT -5
Gabe is pretty stupid going after Jacob alone especially when hes already predisposed I think he just wanted some attention. You d think after going through the trouble of staging a fake funeral he would follow through with the plan. I think Gabe in his mind saw himself as the most capable in that group. Which if you really think about it was kind of delusional on his part given that everyone in that group was pretty good at what they do in their chosen fields and capable of doing what needed to be done without him. I think he suffered from PTSD from being a beast for most of his life.
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Post by tenshi on Oct 21, 2014 4:11:00 GMT -5
Thank you to all who's doing the rewatches. I love reading your comments and I'm always picking someting up which I didn't realised while watching/rewatching the particular episode. I would love to join you if it wasn't because of the time difference and working day.
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rose
Army Recruit
Posts: 133
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Post by rose on Oct 21, 2014 5:36:40 GMT -5
Thank you to all who's doing the rewatches. I love reading your comments and I'm always picking someting up which I didn't realised while watching/rewatching the particular episode. I would love to join you if it wasn't because of the time difference and working day. The time differences annoy me too. I am also not able to watch with everyone. I usually watch ahead of everyone and read the comments the following morning my time.
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Post by tenshi on Oct 21, 2014 5:52:33 GMT -5
Thank you to all who's doing the rewatches. I love reading your comments and I'm always picking someting up which I didn't realised while watching/rewatching the particular episode. I would love to join you if it wasn't because of the time difference and working day. The time differences annoy me too. I am also not able to watch with everyone. I usually watch ahead of everyone and read the comments the following morning my time. Yes - I do the same. But I would love to participate.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Oct 21, 2014 12:37:04 GMT -5
Count me in also as really wishing that I could participate in the rewatch as it happens. But like others, the time is the problem for me as well. I WILL probably brave going to the office late night next week for 215 to do the rewatch as it happens just because the episode is such a favorite of mine. 214 is NOT an episode that could make me risk getting mugged to get to the internet at the office! Now, onto the comments for this episode!
First off, Catherine. Sigh. Let's just talk about the elephant in this room. For Catherine, once she makes a decision, she tries to be "all in" to that decision. So she has decided to be with Gabe. And shocking to her (but NOT to us), she DIDN'T find Mexico romantic with Gabe AT ALL, even though they did all these romantic things together (I am NOT repeating what all they did--this part was true burning acid to my ears!). Yet Catherine fails to realize that this means that she doesn't have really deep feelings for Gabe and cannot love him AND has proceeded to try a relationship that she neither wants or needs. To Catherine, if she somehow injects more of herself into this relationship, she will make it work right. Catherine tries to find every excuse for WHY Mexico (and Gabe) meant nothing to her. She tries to justify that Gabe was supposed to be "dead." Yet obviously, that was not what Mexico was really about, at least not to Gabe. And the fact that as soon as alcohol was in her system, Catherine said "Vincent" to Gabe in Mexico just tells you where her heart really was.
Catherine is entirely distracted throughout this episode. Her father's revelations about Vincent give her something to think about besides the fact that true passion and love is lacking in her life. I feel that KK chose to present Catherine as literally walking on a tightrope in this episode because she truly IS ready to teeter precariously and fall at any moment. Catherine is just flitting back and forth between trying to interpret all this information about Sam, her father, Vincent and Gabe. Catherine is almost afraid to act at times and then finds herself having acted on autopilot at other times. Cat acts on Autopilot with Gabe, which naturally filters into her whole case outlook until she basically shoots a guy on Autopilot. GABE again is the reason that the shooting even takes place since if Gabe had just stayed put, that WHOLE SCENE would never have happened. The parties would have been able to plan appropriately and maybe save Jacob. (And I find it entirely fitting to note here that Gabe does EXACTLY what he fusses at Vincent most for doing in the next episode: running off and acting independently of the group WITHOUT a sufficient plan or back-up. He just takes the law into his own hand with his belief that his WORDS will just somehow be sufficient to talk a Beast down.)
It is ONLY with Vincent that Catherine can react to what she has done AND recognize that she didn't like herself in the moment of the shot. Catherine TRIES to discuss her concerns with Gabe, who turns it around on Catherine in an effort to make HER feel guilty for empathizing with Vincent. Because Gabe gets all mad that Catherine has been quiet in his car on the ride home, thinking of Vincent and how she had asked so much of him in this episode. So once Catherine HAD talked with Vincent after the shooting, Catherine DID finally feel guilty for having asked Vincent to do so much for her in this episode.
And Catherine KNOWS that Vincent will do what she asks of him. And Catherine DOES seem to feel more for Vincent after her talk with JT. She has had to ask Vincent for so much, particularly in an effort to save GABE, of all people, when she knows that Vincent wants to get back with her. You can SEE Catherine and Vincent starting to connect in that conversation when Gabe immediately comes around and inserts himself in by placing his arm around Catherine. So territorial. And Catherine tries so hard to be the girlfriend that GABE wants rather than what she herself might desire. Catherine clearly takes Gabe's rebukes of her to heart, dutifully goes and puts on that lingerie, and just tries to be what Gabe wants. HOWEVER, Cat can't escape her heart, not even when she sleeps. She DREAMS about Vincent since she just tries to repress what she feels during her waking hours.
And I LOVE that Catherine twice WINCES due to her arm injuries from Jacob in this episode. During the first time, Vincent is at her side, IMMEDIATELY notices that she is in pain, and wants to try to help her. Vincent's focus is ENTIRELY on making Cat feel better. Yet when Catherine winces due to her injury around GABE, at the end of the episode, he FAILS to even notice how IN PAIN she is due to his RANT about Vincent. Gabe is ignoring Cat's obvious discomfort due to his own wishes and ego.
Both Catherine and Vincent choose their own MENTORS in this episode. Vincent STANDS UP to his mentor, Dr. Markus, in order to fight to save someone. He is able to convince Markus that his plan is a good one and the right way to proceed. And he gets RESPECT for doing so. And Dr. Markus can see how much saving a life still means to Vincent, AND that Vincent clearly is seeking Redemption for what he has done. While Vincent is able to Stand Up for what he believes, in CONTRAST, Catherine has chosen GABE to listen to and allow to be directed on how to proceed with her case. Catherine ADOPTS Gabe's very mannerisms in this episode and just fails to seem to care about the victims in Sam's wake, with all the focus being on Capturing and prosecuting Sam, which would add to Gabe's status. Catherine seems just as immune to the non-gene Jacob's pain as Gabe would be. Cat just follows Gabe's plan and orders throughout this episode, and is grim and in pain due to his actions (both physically and mentally). Catherine FAILS to stand up for what she actually believes to be right and just goes along with whatever Gabe wants. And suffers as a result.
Due to their interaction with their mentors AND the decisions that they then individually make, Vincent comes out FEELING GOOD about his change. And the fact that Cat "still notices" that he is indeed trying to change. Meanwhile, Catherine wonders aloud to Vincent about what is happening to her and how she could come to the place where she seems to be LOSING her humanity. Cat is becoming emotionless in her duties just as she is becoming emotionless in her relationships. Vincent is the only one to really pull her back AND notice that she is in pain in the first place. Catherine has to make her OWN decisions and do things for the RIGHT reason, something that she will not begin to do until the next couple of episodes. Gabe is TOXIC for her. But Cat has to realize this on her own, which certainly does not occur in this episode.
Still, the REAL Catherine is still in there. It begins to come forth while talking with Vincent. And then when she dreams. Catherine is becoming the type of person that COULD end up killing Vincent. And she is SHOCKED awake by this revelation.
Like everyone else, I LOVED the implication that VinCat could not escape one another, even in their dreams! The two actually NEED to process what is going on within each one of them with each other. If not, they are haunted into the dreamworld about their insecurities and what they want to see happen (or not happen) with each other. This begins and ends the episode. Just like it begins and ends with VinCat needing to find their way back to one another, or the consequences would be deadly.
Can't wait for 215!!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Oct 21, 2014 17:01:59 GMT -5
Couple things I forgot to add that I DID like about this episode.
The TRUST is clearly there between VinCat. Cat knows she has only to ask Vincent to save Gabe and he will do it. Which he does. And Cat knows that she CAN ask anything of Vincent AND doesn't have to give an explanation for her request. Because HE trusts HER in return. And that she CAN just expect him to help, despite his no longer being her boyfriend. And VinCat still work beautifully together EXCEPT when Vincent doesn't keep Cat in the loop regarding his attempts to save hospital Jacob. Which leads Cat to worry when Vincent appears MIA for awhile. And Gabe is able to see just how worried Cat is about Vincent's whereabouts.
Others have commented in the past about Catherine telling Vincent that it was Gabe's suggestion that she call him to go with her to the hospital. Many think that Cat is being insensitive here. I will offer another viewpoint. I truly think that Catherine was doing this NOT to hurt Vincent BUT to make it clear where she stood. She was NOT going behind her boyfriend's back in enlisting Vincent's help. She was working with the team/group plan. Just shows Catherine is not trying to play one guy against the other. She was truly trying to keep her relationship with Vincent "professional." And maybe even show Vincent that Gabe was trying to be understanding of their past and their ability to be able to work so well together. (We all know that by episode's end, Gabe is NOT at all understanding or appreciative of VinCat's ability to work so well together, even when it has SAVED HIS LIFE as happened in this episode. And Catherine is again thinking that Gabe is being understanding when it was probably Gabe's enjoyment of bossing Vincent around, discussed more in the paragraph below.)
I do think that originally, Gabe kind of liked the idea of ordering Vincent around and treating him like he is only the muscle for the group. But by the episode's end, Vincent has unintentionally showed Gabe up by coming in AS A TEAM PLAYER and helping defeat Sam and Jacob. And it all went wrong (with Sam escaping and Beast Jacob dying) because of Gabe. So INSTEAD of taking responsibility for his stupidity, Gabe just rants against Vincent's continuing necessity to the group. Especially since he sees how moved Cat actually is by Vincent's attempts at redemption. So Gabe's attempts at redemption are proved to just be Ego-based while Vincent's attempts at redemption are actually AGAINST his own self-interest in order to help save others, including Gabe. Last IMPORTANT difference between Gabe and Vincent that comes through in this episode. Cat TELLS Gabe not to approach the Beast Jacob, and Gabe just IGNORES Cat's opinion and even hangs up on her without listening to her. Vincent, however, trusts Cat's judgment automatically and just does what she asks without questioning it. And Cat feels the NEED to tell Vincent why she wants help, particularly in saving Gabe, which is just unnecessary to Vincent. He already knows and is comfortable with her reasoning BECAUSE he trusts and respects her. Gabe HAS no trust in Catherine's abilities or concerns while Vincent clearly sees Cat as his equal partner. LOVE THIS.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Oct 22, 2014 7:48:52 GMT -5
I'll admit I didn't rewatch this episode because I don't like it enough to... I guess I just wish that we had some insight into what the characters- particularly Cat -are "supposed" to be giving off...for me, this is the worst Cat characterization of the season. Is she supposed to feel so forced? Is the thing with Gabe supposed to feel so dramatically like she is lying to herself? Is the writing intentionally making her look like a jerk? Is it supposed to be pay back for Vincent's wrongdoings? I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to be feeling...but for me Cat's scripting and behavior are terrible. I can't help but wonder if that is sloppy choices on the part of TPTB or if they are intentionally trying to make her character look bad. Anyway, not worth re watching this train wreck of an episode. I LIKE Catherine the strong woman with a backbone. It is very hard to watch the character damage done here, and genuinely disappointing ?
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Oct 23, 2014 9:48:49 GMT -5
SpydancerLovesVincat,
I do think that the writers wrote Cat to be intentionally almost cold-hearted at points in this episode in order to show what she is becoming without love and empathy in her life. She is downright detached from herself by episode's end, and the ONLY person that she is able to confide in about this is Vincent. So Cat HERSELF knows that something is wrong with her. Gabe is all about Control, and with Gabe, Cat is either controlling to others or being controlled herself.
At least in her conversation with Vincent, we see that Catherine does NOT like what she is becoming. I think that this was the writers' attempt to show how Vincent and Catherine are better when they are together rather than apart. With Vincent, Catherine is free to be herself. Vincent doesn't attempt to mold her into someone else or control her like Gabe. And Cat and Vincent's primary concern when working together is not just to solve a case but to help others. Cat recognizes that she is losing her humanity, she just doesn't understand why. And Vincent first begins to REGAIN his humanity because he wants to be the type of person that Cat could love again. I think "Smallville" actually said it best when they described Lex's evil as being what happens when a person has "a total absence of love" in their life. Without love and empathy, the person becomes bitter, self-involved and makes the wrong choices because not motivated by compassion and concern for others.
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