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Post by bookworm on Jan 5, 2014 15:43:18 GMT -5
I am going to quote @locaxbatb here because the other thread was closed. here is what locaxbatb wrote. " To me, reading through these posts has been like running a marathon or surviving a gruelling two hour session on some psychologist's couch; fellow beasties, I am mentally, physically and emotionally drained. Talk about a loop de loop ride!
First of all, I send much gratitude out to everyone who took the time to reflect thoughtfully on so many topics in order to make us all better and more effective communicators in this forum. I always feel that our shared love for this show, no matter where we stand at the present moment, keeps us together and helps us work through any differences we may have.
What I have always felt here is that every single member of this fandom is somewhere on the "BatB feelings spectrum" with regards to the show. And wether you are far left-you love everything about the show- or far right-you are barely hanging on by a thread- or anywhere in between, your feelings, opinions, thoughts, questions.... are valued by everyone else, wether we agree or disagree.
So let us all work hander at choosing our words more carefully in order to comment on people's ideas and not on the people themselves. I am going to begin by being more conscious of my use of the personal pronoun "YOU" and the possessive adjective "YOUR".
I want everyone to feel as supported as I do when expressing anything and everything they have to say about our show. So let us all continue to work together so that this forum remains a "safe haven" for every beastie."
Now it's my turn to write down my ideas. I think it is very important what locaxbatb wrote. I feel the same! I normally feel optimistic and do not focus on the negative aspects but rather the good ones and try to avoid complaining. But sometimes it's very tiring and sad to see beasties "fighting" each other here. I understand that we all need to express our feelings and some of us are feling very low at the moment. What I am asking is even if you are disappointed at things between VinCat and TPTB not meeting your expectations ( they promised a lot of exciting things and so far a lot of those have backfired...) and what's more you are worried about the future of batb please just give them a few weeks (until ep 14) and see how things change by then. Because things will change soon! It matters a lot how you experience S2! I believe it's your choice how you want to spend your days thinking about batb: feeling terrible, disappointed and sad OR trying to get over the bad things and try to focus on the upcoming eps. The first 8-9 eps were the first big arc so the second one is coming in a week and it will bring a change. When you find yourself getting angry again try to stop that thought and focus on something else otherwise this whole show will be assoiciated with negative feelings and thoughts in your mind and you don't want that, do you?You do have the power to change your feelings but it's hard work, I know. Been there, done that. But you can do it if you want to!!! So what do you want?? OK I'm done with my lecture... i hope I didn't offend anyone. I did not think of anyone paticularly here but for everyone! All I'm saying is you don't have to suffer! You can start to enjoy things and be a happy and relaxed beastie! Well as someone who has tried throughout the last year or so to be a positive voice in the fandom, I can say, honestly, that I, too, normally feel optimistic and do not focus on the negative aspects of the show- and try to avoid complaining… I was actually one of the most positive voices when this hit the fan with that whole Gabriela storyline… I tried in vain to talk everyone down from that ledge unsuccessfully. But people will feel the way that they feel…. But the truth is that you really can't change how you experience and feel about the show - or season 2 - in general… It's not honest. With the onset of the last two episodes, Tori, Vincent losing himself to his beast side, kissing her, Catherine going for a kill shot to the man that she supposedly loves… I cannot and will not convince myself that I feel differently that I actually do. I may love the show, but a push over I am not. It is not up to me to decide how I experience the show, when I can barely stand to keep watching it. My disappointment, disillusionment, and overall disdain for the things that I see happening on screen has nearly killed the love I have for this show… So no, I can't stop and focus on something else. I expect TPTB, the writers, B. Kern and the creative team to do better. I won't accept what is happening, or what has happened, because I don't have to. It's not good enough. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but there is a point of no return - and TOO MUCH is too much. I don't have to convince myself I feel good about something that has squashed nearly everything i love about the show. Who would I be if I was that person? Who would any of us be as fans? This is a show about epic love - and if memory serves - Vincent and Catherine fell in love and rather LARGELY consummated their relationship and began planning a future together… I expect the writers and the creative team to remember that when they write S2, to remember the characters they created. Everything is not fair game. This is not a soap opera, this is show about epic love. You know, if I thought what I had signed up for (as a fan) was to watch another tired CW love triangle - a la the Vampire Diaries - I would never have even considered wasting my time on this show to begin with. So why would I accept that now? Yes, some of us are angry, but to be honest, the anger, and the passion that I still have for the show I fell in love with is the ONLY thing that is keeping me here. That's the truth. Otherwise, I would be in the wind, and BATB would be forgotten, another colossal disappointment of a television franchise. I f I tried, for a moment to be positive about what I see onscreen, I would just change the channel… because I just can't. That is how big a problem this is to me. I can only speak for myself, but it is not a matter of reprogramming how I feel, because honestly, I wouldn't waste my time… the fact that I care, that my feelings are real, that is the only thing that is keeping me here…Just a little food for thought. Some of us need the anger, frustration, and the venting… it is all that I can physically and emotionally do. It is all I have to offer for now. Well that or disappear… I don't thrive on negativity… many of us don't. This is literally it - all that I have to give to this show right now. It is enough, too. It has to be… So I would -ah- keep that in mind when you ask people to choose the way they feel about things. The fact that I have had a very visceral, emotional response to what has happened onscreen is probably the only reason I'm still here. Anyway, I wish there was another way to explain it, but there isn't. The fact that I still care is literally all that I have and I'm hanging on by a thread. The only other option is giving up on the show. Wow... where shall I start? It's hard to respond because I can understand your feelings really well! Don't think for a minute that i didn't have doubts or felt disappointed not so long ago... I know what you're talking about and as i wrote a few days ago I am sorry you feel this way because this is no good for you to be permanently sad about a tv show..... i think we were all shocked at ep 8-9 or let's say were not exactly prepared for these changes from the beginning of S2... But that's the way the show was written! There's nothing you can do about it but accept the new things, though you do not need to like them. It's not up to us, fans, if it was, maybe it would really turn into a cheesy VinCat soap opera... who knows... So TPTB are making it for us, fans and not the opposite. It's not my job to decide if they're good at it or not.... I know that current ratings and chances of renewal are a telltale sign that things are not too bright but It has become a successful show, loved by a small but strong fanbase. However it's in their hand what they are doing to it. The fate of batb will depend on what's going to happen in the next few months..... OK I don't want to tell you how to feel about it... afterall it's your experience. All I tried was to give some positive thoughts because some people appreciate to read a few encouraging ideas especially these days. My intention wasn't to upset your already hurt feelings, sorry if it went that way. The reason I suggested everybody who's still sad, depressed, angry etc. get in a better mood for your own sake is because I believe you really are in charge of your own feelings! There are so many ways to change your mood... I don't want to bore you with the details of how I do it but first you have to want it! This is why I wrote it's your choice how you want it/yourself to be: angry or calm.... And I also wrote that before giving up wait a month or two because that might change the way you feel about it... I'm happy Spydancer that you're still here! You're a great member of this forum and our fandom so please just hold on...
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Post by icebeastie on Jan 5, 2014 15:49:47 GMT -5
I have been encouraged to re-watch the entire S2 by fellow passionate Beastie fans in the hope that I could also see the romantic links within this season's episodes that continue to tie Vincent and Catherine in much the same way as last season. I am encouraged to report that...I had seen all these vignettes when watching through the season...but I still think it's pretty weak. Again it's my opinion and I think that if we have to re-watch these episodes multiple times to 'get it'...they aren't very well written. However...I have noticed the strong (for me) religious imagery that has threaded through this season's episodes as well as some in S1...Zach hides in an abandoned church, Gabe's apartment last year overlooking a large cathedral, obvious use of church bells in the background when Catherine & Gabe put 2 + 2 together to identify Biodaddy as Vincent's handler, the strong visual image of the bloodied heart in Father Knows Best as well as Sebastian's kill of Agent Tucker. Indeed the character name of Gabe...short form of Gabriel...ie Archangel from the Bible...makes me say Hmmm? ? And there's something with the constant water imagery too I'm thinking....Vincent, Tori, Catherine...always a water bottle or glass of water offered during stressful discussion scenes?....Hmmm.... Just some things I'm pondering while I wait...thoughts???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 15:53:56 GMT -5
okay - for anyone who needs a laugh - I was just on the BATB CW website - off to the right where they run the ads was a huge banana with the caption - one of the five foods you should not eat - I could not stop laughing A diet that does not include BANANAS? ?? Blasphemy!!!! I don't know about the other four, but that's one food I"m never giving up!!!!!! LOL
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 5, 2014 15:57:32 GMT -5
I have been encouraged to re-watch the entire S2 by fellow passionate Beastie fans in the hope that I could also see the romantic links within this season's episodes that continue to tie Vincent and Catherine in much the same way as last season. I am encouraged to report that...I had seen all these vignettes when watching through the season...but I still think it's pretty weak. Again it's my opinion and I think that if we have to re-watch these episodes multiple times to 'get it'...they aren't very well written. However...I have noticed the strong (for me) religious imagery that has threaded through this season's episodes as well as some in S1...Zach hides in an abandoned church, Gabe's apartment last year overlooking a large cathedral, obvious use of church bells in the background when Catherine & Gabe put 2 + 2 together to identify Biodaddy as Vincent's handler, the strong visual image of the bloodied heart in Father Knows Best as well as Sebastian's kill of Agent Tucker. Indeed the character name of Gabe...short form of Gabriel...ie Archangel from the Bible...makes me say Hmmm? ? And there's something with the constant water imagery too I'm thinking....Vincent, Tori, Catherine...always a water bottle or glass of water offered during stressful discussion scenes?....Hmmm.... Just some things I'm pondering while I wait...thoughts??? oh my, the bottle thingie i had thought about too and I have no idea. but the religious imagery I had not thought about and you are absolutely right, it cannot be a coincidence. i wonder what it signifies. very interesting, indeed!! thanks for pointing it out. i have watched the episodes many times but did not cross my mind before! xx
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Post by bookworm on Jan 5, 2014 15:58:24 GMT -5
I believe it's your choice how you want to spend your days thinking about batb: feeling terrible, disappointed and sad OR trying to get over the bad things and try to focus on the upcoming eps. No offense, but simplifying people's feelings like this is part of what brought the show to the problem it's in today. To say that it's a matter of chosing what you feel towards the show is ignoring the very thing that characterizes the fanbase, its passion. I am not offended. In fact I don't think I simplified the feelings of people! I did NOT write stop loving the show or hating it... Or don't feel passionate about it, not at all! All I suggested was try to calm down, take it easy, things will hopefully improve blablabla.... You know things you usually say to people when you want them to feel better and not that misery they've been in..... Because i think it's better if you feel this way Because this is who I am. Someone who is the happiest when people around are happy too. No offence, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 16:02:08 GMT -5
Having a big snowstorm in the Midwest, and I am baking two loaves of Banana Bread.....just sayin'
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Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Jan 5, 2014 16:37:00 GMT -5
Having a big snowstorm in the Midwest, and I am baking two loaves of Banana Bread.....just sayin' LOL!!!! Yes we are snow packed and bitter cold in the Midwest. "Banana" bread is the only thing that might warm us Midwesterners up!
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Post by Jubilant Judi on Jan 5, 2014 16:42:27 GMT -5
I have been encouraged to re-watch the entire S2 by fellow passionate Beastie fans in the hope that I could also see the romantic links within this season's episodes that continue to tie Vincent and Catherine in much the same way as last season. I am encouraged to report that...I had seen all these vignettes when watching through the season...but I still think it's pretty weak. Again it's my opinion and I think that if we have to re-watch these episodes multiple times to 'get it'...they aren't very well written. However...I have noticed the strong (for me) religious imagery that has threaded through this season's episodes as well as some in S1...Zach hides in an abandoned church, Gabe's apartment last year overlooking a large cathedral, obvious use of church bells in the background when Catherine & Gabe put 2 + 2 together to identify Biodaddy as Vincent's handler, the strong visual image of the bloodied heart in Father Knows Best as well as Sebastian's kill of Agent Tucker. Indeed the character name of Gabe...short form of Gabriel...ie Archangel from the Bible...makes me say Hmmm? ? And there's something with the constant water imagery too I'm thinking....Vincent, Tori, Catherine...always a water bottle or glass of water offered during stressful discussion scenes?....Hmmm.... Just some things I'm pondering while I wait...thoughts??? oh my, the bottle thingie i had thought about too and I have no idea. but the religious imagery I had not thought about and you are absolutely right, it cannot be a coincidence. i wonder what it signifies. very interesting, indeed!! thanks for pointing it out. i have watched the episodes many times but did not cross my mind before! xx I hadn’t thought about the religious imagery before – in Hotheads Vincent and Catherine walked in front of a church on the way to the 911 Memorial – in Charmed Brad Kern used a lot of mythology w/ creatures and gods and goddesses– the chimera is supposed to be a mythical creature - what if it isn’t – what if Catherine’s mother found it?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 5, 2014 16:45:54 GMT -5
Ok just thought I would talk about my experience of season 2 as it developed cause i dont think i ever have fully. when episode 1 aired, I really did enjoy it and the last hearbreaking scene was one of my favourite. however, it was pretty obvious to me that the feel of season 2 (the way it is filmed and range of other things) were very different from season 1. obviously at that stage I was really looking forward to the romance and chemistry between vincat cause that was what I always loved about the show. But i understood that vincent 2.0 had no memories of cat and there were signs that there was a connection despite the memory loss (heartbeat, him saving her etc). I was happy in episode 2 cause there was lots of chemistry in the kidnapping section (lots for sure!!) and loved that scene, though when Vincent then left her in bed (or more accurately tied in the chair) to go to one of his missions I was left with my mouth open and was like oh my. and then the shove was not pretty either, but it made it clearer to me how the relationship between the two was indeed different!! than season 1 and after the push i was unsure of what would happen between them two! episode 3 was interesting, i found that episode really sad, cause they were both so dishonest with each other each for their own reasons, again something that they would not do in the past (season 1 i mean). i coudl fully understand their reasoning, but was sad nonetheless. episode 4 i was pretty hopeful about them two, but still could not fully see the chemistry and connection I could see in season 1 scenes. the finishing scene was beautiful but not enough to convince me of that chemistry. and then we had episode 5 and I was getting pretty frustrated - where are the writers heading here? i cannot see the connection, cat is clearly frustrated with the relationship. and why is this happening now that i thought they were a bit on track? i mean i could fully understand how they felt and why they felt and reacted the way they did, that was not an issue for me in any episode. but i could not see exactly what the writers were trying to do and i was frustrated that i could not feel the connection and chemistry that was so evident throughout season 1. then came episode 6, another episode i was not that keen on. ( i think 5 and 6 were my least favourite ones). again no connection, the vincat scenes were a bit off for me, where is the magic? and then episode 7 came that most beasties hated cause of the kiss but it was then when i came to a realisation. things were definitely really off between them in 7 for many reasons. again i coudl identify iwth both characters but for the first tme they were honest with each other and how they felt and for some reason it clicked to me then that yes, the chemistry is not as much there and things are off because this is exactly what is intended here. and i know that most beasties reached that realisation much before me lol but when i understood that things were intentional i was actually ok with it. and i knew (i may be wrong) that the writers will sink them as low as they can but they will then rekindle the spark and romance and love stronger than ever. it may not happen as i imagine it will but i strongly feel it will. and what made it even more ok to me is thinking about all the different external barriers that also caused internal issues and thinking realistically how could the spark be there - it would make no sense. also i think the second arc will be a good opportunity for vincat to address some of the issues that they had in season 1, and there were quite a few of them. the other thing i did feel this season is that no matter what these two people deeply love each other. finally, the kiss was not an issue for me at all, to me it meant nothing. i am honestly very optimistic in the future and have faith in the writers cause obviously i would love to see the sparks grow very soon and the love develop again and the sizzling chemistry of season 1 but at the same time i am glad i saw their fall to the lowest point and very excited on how they will rediscover themselves and improve what was there in season 1.
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Post by kiki09 on Jan 5, 2014 17:04:40 GMT -5
Ok just thought I would talk about my experience of season 2 as it developed cause i dont think i ever have fully. when episode 1 aired, I really did enjoy it and the last hearbreaking scene was one of my favourite. however, it was pretty obvious to me that the feel of season 2 (the way it is filmed and range of other things) were very different from season 1. obviously at that stage I was really looking forward to the romance and chemistry between vincat cause that was what I always loved about the show. But i understood that vincent 2.0 had no memories of cat and there were signs that there was a connection despite the memory loss (heartbeat, him saving her etc). I was happy in episode 2 cause there was lots of chemistry in the kidnapping section (lots for sure!!) and loved that scene, though when Vincent then left her in bed (or more accurately tied in the chair) to go to one of his missions I was left with my mouth open and was like oh my. and then the shove was not pretty either, but it made it clearer to me how the relationship between the two was indeed different!! than season 1 and after the push i was unsure of what would happen between them two! episode 3 was interesting, i found that episode really sad, cause they were both so dishonest with each other each for their own reasons, again something that they would not do in the past (season 1 i mean). i coudl fully understand their reasoning, but was sad nonetheless. episode 4 i was pretty hopeful about them two, but still could not fully see the chemistry and connection I could see in season 1 scenes. the finishing scene was beautiful but not enough to convince me of that chemistry. and then we had episode 5 and I was getting pretty frustrated - where are the writers heading here? i cannot see the connection, cat is clearly frustrated with the relationship. and why is this happening now that i thought they were a bit on track? i mean i could fully understand how they felt and why they felt and reacted the way they did, that was not an issue for me in any episode. but i could not see exactly what the writers were trying to do and i was frustrated that i could not feel the connection and chemistry that was so evident throughout season 1. then came episode 6, another episode i was not that keen on. ( i think 5 and 6 were my least favourite ones). again no connection, the vincat scenes were a bit off for me, where is the magic? and then episode 7 came that most beasties hated cause of the kiss but it was then when i came to a realisation. things were definitely really off between them in 7 for many reasons. again i coudl identify iwth both characters but for the first tme they were honest with each other and how they felt and for some reason it clicked to me then that yes, the chemistry is not as much there and things are off because this is exactly what is intended here. and i know that most beasties reached that realisation much before me lol but when i understood that things were intentional i was actually ok with it. and i knew (i may be wrong) that the writers will sink them as low as they can but they will then rekindle the spark and romance and love stronger than ever. it may not happen as i imagine it will but i strongly feel it will. and what made it even more ok to me is thinking about all the different external barriers that also caused internal issues and thinking realistically how could the spark be there - it would make no sense. also i think the second arc will be a good opportunity for vincat to address some of the issues that they had in season 1, and there were quite a few of them. the other thing i did feel this season is that no matter what these two people deeply love each other. finally, the kiss was not an issue for me at all, to me it meant nothing. i am honestly very optimistic in the future and have faith in the writers cause obviously i would love to see the sparks grow very soon and the love develop again and the sizzling chemistry of season 1 but at the same time i am glad i saw their fall to the lowest point and very excited on how they will rediscover themselves and improve what was there in season 1. Well said and I agree with your statements. For me I think it clicked that the difference in their relationship was intentional, was in 201. Vincent was just so different and rightfully so because of the memory thing but Cat was still clinging on to the hopes that 'old V' would return to her. And she had to have the realization that he was definitely different and adapt to that. So when it clicked that things were different, for me, I was fascinated in seeing how they would now navigate their 'relationship' (I never thought of it as a proper relationship, they were both lying to themselves in that regard) and decide how to move forward. I never saw any of them 'acting out of character' because the circumstances they were faces with now, forced the changed in them and they reacted accordingly, for better or for worse. Even though they would have their 'moments', in the back of my mind, I was waiting for the shoe to drop, anticipating that they would break up and that all came to a head in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. That's why it liked the ep so much. At some point enough is enough and they had to stop pretending everything was okay and like the old days. Because they kept pretending nothing had changed, things finally reached fever pitch in GWCTD and I was glad they were finally truthful that it was not okay and that they stopped kidding themselves that it was. So now that they have reached their lowest point at the end of Man or Beast, I'm looking forward to seeing how they will heal separately and find their way back to each other. I don't even consider any of the Gabe or Tori BS, because to me it is irrelevant to what Vincent and Catherine need to do in order to get back to who they are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 17:16:57 GMT -5
Ok just thought I would talk about my experience of season 2 as it developed cause i dont think i ever have fully. when episode 1 aired, I really did enjoy it and the last hearbreaking scene was one of my favourite. however, it was pretty obvious to me that the feel of season 2 (the way it is filmed and range of other things) were very different from season 1. obviously at that stage I was really looking forward to the romance and chemistry between vincat cause that was what I always loved about the show. But i understood that vincent 2.0 had no memories of cat and there were signs that there was a connection despite the memory loss (heartbeat, him saving her etc). I was happy in episode 2 cause there was lots of chemistry in the kidnapping section (lots for sure!!) and loved that scene, though when Vincent then left her in bed (or more accurately tied in the chair) to go to one of his missions I was left with my mouth open and was like oh my. and then the shove was not pretty either, but it made it clearer to me how the relationship between the two was indeed different!! than season 1 and after the push i was unsure of what would happen between them two! episode 3 was interesting, i found that episode really sad, cause they were both so dishonest with each other each for their own reasons, again something that they would not do in the past (season 1 i mean). i coudl fully understand their reasoning, but was sad nonetheless. episode 4 i was pretty hopeful about them two, but still could not fully see the chemistry and connection I could see in season 1 scenes. the finishing scene was beautiful but not enough to convince me of that chemistry. and then we had episode 5 and I was getting pretty frustrated - where are the writers heading here? i cannot see the connection, cat is clearly frustrated with the relationship. and why is this happening now that i thought they were a bit on track? i mean i could fully understand how they felt and why they felt and reacted the way they did, that was not an issue for me in any episode. but i could not see exactly what the writers were trying to do and i was frustrated that i could not feel the connection and chemistry that was so evident throughout season 1. then came episode 6, another episode i was not that keen on. ( i think 5 and 6 were my least favourite ones). again no connection, the vincat scenes were a bit off for me, where is the magic? and then episode 7 came that most beasties hated cause of the kiss but it was then when i came to a realisation. things were definitely really off between them in 7 for many reasons. again i coudl identify iwth both characters but for the first tme they were honest with each other and how they felt and for some reason it clicked to me then that yes, the chemistry is not as much there and things are off because this is exactly what is intended here. and i know that most beasties reached that realisation much before me lol but when i understood that things were intentional i was actually ok with it. and i knew (i may be wrong) that the writers will sink them as low as they can but they will then rekindle the spark and romance and love stronger than ever. it may not happen as i imagine it will but i strongly feel it will. and what made it even more ok to me is thinking about all the different external barriers that also caused internal issues and thinking realistically how could the spark be there - it would make no sense. also i think the second arc will be a good opportunity for vincat to address some of the issues that they had in season 1, and there were quite a few of them. the other thing i did feel this season is that no matter what these two people deeply love each other. finally, the kiss was not an issue for me at all, to me it meant nothing. i am honestly very optimistic in the future and have faith in the writers cause obviously i would love to see the sparks grow very soon and the love develop again and the sizzling chemistry of season 1 but at the same time i am glad i saw their fall to the lowest point and very excited on how they will rediscover themselves and improve what was there in season 1. The fans that gave up on the show are really there. Gone. And praising the show in a way that doesn't explain anything, but only insists in this repetitive speech that things are going to get better when all the show runners do is release bad news to the public won't bring them back. If you really want to help the show, tell the show runners to better their RP.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 17:17:05 GMT -5
I have been encouraged to re-watch the entire S2 by fellow passionate Beastie fans in the hope that I could also see the romantic links within this season's episodes that continue to tie Vincent and Catherine in much the same way as last season. I am encouraged to report that...I had seen all these vignettes when watching through the season...but I still think it's pretty weak. Again it's my opinion and I think that if we have to re-watch these episodes multiple times to 'get it'...they aren't very well written. However...I have noticed the strong (for me) religious imagery that has threaded through this season's episodes as well as some in S1...Zach hides in an abandoned church, Gabe's apartment last year overlooking a large cathedral, obvious use of church bells in the background when Catherine & Gabe put 2 + 2 together to identify Biodaddy as Vincent's handler, the strong visual image of the bloodied heart in Father Knows Best as well as Sebastian's kill of Agent Tucker. Indeed the character name of Gabe...short form of Gabriel...ie Archangel from the Bible...makes me say Hmmm? ? And there's something with the constant water imagery too I'm thinking....Vincent, Tori, Catherine...always a water bottle or glass of water offered during stressful discussion scenes?....Hmmm.... Just some things I'm pondering while I wait...thoughts??? oh my, the bottle thingie i had thought about too and I have no idea. but the religious imagery I had not thought about and you are absolutely right, it cannot be a coincidence. i wonder what it signifies. very interesting, indeed!! thanks for pointing it out. i have watched the episodes many times but did not cross my mind before! xx A while ago, I believe it was in the Episode Observations Thread, I had asked if anyone thought that Vincent was religious or spiritual and I had made some observations about Insatiable and Date Night, I believe. Glad to know that someone else has picked up on more religious imagery. Names are always interesting to me and I had thought about the Archangel Gabriel. Vincent, on the other hand, is not a biblical name; it comes from Latin, but it's meaning-to prevail, to conquer-is fitting for the show. Now the name Catherine has many backgrounds-Anglo-Saxon, Greek, French.....but in all it means "pure, innocent, chaste". I wonder if the creators of the original BatB series picked those names intentionally. They are both used in countries that are historically Christian. Who knows?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 5, 2014 17:20:19 GMT -5
Ok just thought I would talk about my experience of season 2 as it developed cause i dont think i ever have fully. when episode 1 aired, I really did enjoy it and the last hearbreaking scene was one of my favourite. however, it was pretty obvious to me that the feel of season 2 (the way it is filmed and range of other things) were very different from season 1. obviously at that stage I was really looking forward to the romance and chemistry between vincat cause that was what I always loved about the show. But i understood that vincent 2.0 had no memories of cat and there were signs that there was a connection despite the memory loss (heartbeat, him saving her etc). I was happy in episode 2 cause there was lots of chemistry in the kidnapping section (lots for sure!!) and loved that scene, though when Vincent then left her in bed (or more accurately tied in the chair) to go to one of his missions I was left with my mouth open and was like oh my. and then the shove was not pretty either, but it made it clearer to me how the relationship between the two was indeed different!! than season 1 and after the push i was unsure of what would happen between them two! episode 3 was interesting, i found that episode really sad, cause they were both so dishonest with each other each for their own reasons, again something that they would not do in the past (season 1 i mean). i coudl fully understand their reasoning, but was sad nonetheless. episode 4 i was pretty hopeful about them two, but still could not fully see the chemistry and connection I could see in season 1 scenes. the finishing scene was beautiful but not enough to convince me of that chemistry. and then we had episode 5 and I was getting pretty frustrated - where are the writers heading here? i cannot see the connection, cat is clearly frustrated with the relationship. and why is this happening now that i thought they were a bit on track? i mean i could fully understand how they felt and why they felt and reacted the way they did, that was not an issue for me in any episode. but i could not see exactly what the writers were trying to do and i was frustrated that i could not feel the connection and chemistry that was so evident throughout season 1. then came episode 6, another episode i was not that keen on. ( i think 5 and 6 were my least favourite ones). again no connection, the vincat scenes were a bit off for me, where is the magic? and then episode 7 came that most beasties hated cause of the kiss but it was then when i came to a realisation. things were definitely really off between them in 7 for many reasons. again i coudl identify iwth both characters but for the first tme they were honest with each other and how they felt and for some reason it clicked to me then that yes, the chemistry is not as much there and things are off because this is exactly what is intended here. and i know that most beasties reached that realisation much before me lol but when i understood that things were intentional i was actually ok with it. and i knew (i may be wrong) that the writers will sink them as low as they can but they will then rekindle the spark and romance and love stronger than ever. it may not happen as i imagine it will but i strongly feel it will. and what made it even more ok to me is thinking about all the different external barriers that also caused internal issues and thinking realistically how could the spark be there - it would make no sense. also i think the second arc will be a good opportunity for vincat to address some of the issues that they had in season 1, and there were quite a few of them. the other thing i did feel this season is that no matter what these two people deeply love each other. finally, the kiss was not an issue for me at all, to me it meant nothing. i am honestly very optimistic in the future and have faith in the writers cause obviously i would love to see the sparks grow very soon and the love develop again and the sizzling chemistry of season 1 but at the same time i am glad i saw their fall to the lowest point and very excited on how they will rediscover themselves and improve what was there in season 1. Well said and I agree with your statements. For me I think it clicked that the difference in their relationship was intention, was in 201. Vincent was just so different and rightfully so because of the memory thing but Cat was still clinging on to the hopes that 'old V' would return to her. And she had to have the realization that he was definitely different and adapt to that. So when it clicked that things were different, for me, I was fascinated in seeing how they would now navigate their 'relationship' (I never thought of it as a proper relationship, they were both lying to themselves in that regard) and decide how to move forward. I never saw any of them 'acting out of character' because the circumstances they were faces with now, forced the changed in them and they reacted accordingly, for better or for worse. Even though they would have their 'moments' in the back of my mind, I was waiting for the show to drop, anticipating that they would break up and that all came to a head in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. That's why it liked the ep so much. At some point enough is enough and they had to stop pretending everything was okay and like the old days. Because they kept pretending nothing had changed, things finally reached fever pitch in GWCTD and I was glad they were finally truthful that it was not okay and that they stopped kidding themselves that it was. So now that they have reached their lowest point at the end of Man or Beast, I'm looking forward to seeing how they will heal separately and find their way back to each other. I don't even consider any of the Gabe or Tori BS, because to me it is irrelevant to what Vincent and Catherine need to do in order to get back to who they are. yes feel exactly the same!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 5, 2014 17:24:55 GMT -5
Ok just thought I would talk about my experience of season 2 as it developed cause i dont think i ever have fully. when episode 1 aired, I really did enjoy it and the last hearbreaking scene was one of my favourite. however, it was pretty obvious to me that the feel of season 2 (the way it is filmed and range of other things) were very different from season 1. obviously at that stage I was really looking forward to the romance and chemistry between vincat cause that was what I always loved about the show. But i understood that vincent 2.0 had no memories of cat and there were signs that there was a connection despite the memory loss (heartbeat, him saving her etc). I was happy in episode 2 cause there was lots of chemistry in the kidnapping section (lots for sure!!) and loved that scene, though when Vincent then left her in bed (or more accurately tied in the chair) to go to one of his missions I was left with my mouth open and was like oh my. and then the shove was not pretty either, but it made it clearer to me how the relationship between the two was indeed different!! than season 1 and after the push i was unsure of what would happen between them two! episode 3 was interesting, i found that episode really sad, cause they were both so dishonest with each other each for their own reasons, again something that they would not do in the past (season 1 i mean). i coudl fully understand their reasoning, but was sad nonetheless. episode 4 i was pretty hopeful about them two, but still could not fully see the chemistry and connection I could see in season 1 scenes. the finishing scene was beautiful but not enough to convince me of that chemistry. and then we had episode 5 and I was getting pretty frustrated - where are the writers heading here? i cannot see the connection, cat is clearly frustrated with the relationship. and why is this happening now that i thought they were a bit on track? i mean i could fully understand how they felt and why they felt and reacted the way they did, that was not an issue for me in any episode. but i could not see exactly what the writers were trying to do and i was frustrated that i could not feel the connection and chemistry that was so evident throughout season 1. then came episode 6, another episode i was not that keen on. ( i think 5 and 6 were my least favourite ones). again no connection, the vincat scenes were a bit off for me, where is the magic? and then episode 7 came that most beasties hated cause of the kiss but it was then when i came to a realisation. things were definitely really off between them in 7 for many reasons. again i coudl identify iwth both characters but for the first tme they were honest with each other and how they felt and for some reason it clicked to me then that yes, the chemistry is not as much there and things are off because this is exactly what is intended here. and i know that most beasties reached that realisation much before me lol but when i understood that things were intentional i was actually ok with it. and i knew (i may be wrong) that the writers will sink them as low as they can but they will then rekindle the spark and romance and love stronger than ever. it may not happen as i imagine it will but i strongly feel it will. and what made it even more ok to me is thinking about all the different external barriers that also caused internal issues and thinking realistically how could the spark be there - it would make no sense. also i think the second arc will be a good opportunity for vincat to address some of the issues that they had in season 1, and there were quite a few of them. the other thing i did feel this season is that no matter what these two people deeply love each other. finally, the kiss was not an issue for me at all, to me it meant nothing. i am honestly very optimistic in the future and have faith in the writers cause obviously i would love to see the sparks grow very soon and the love develop again and the sizzling chemistry of season 1 but at the same time i am glad i saw their fall to the lowest point and very excited on how they will rediscover themselves and improve what was there in season 1. The fans that gave up on the show are really there. Gone. And praising the show in a way that doesn't explain anything, but only insists in this repetitive speech that things are going to get better when all the show runners do is release bad news to the public won't bring them back. If you really want to help the show, tell the show runners to better their RP. I am not not trying to convince anyone at all - really not interested in convincing people. Each one of us have their own thoughts and opinions. I am just expressing my thoughts and feelings. I love this forum because it is respectful to peoples opinions and because I can express how I feel.
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Post by kiki09 on Jan 5, 2014 17:34:43 GMT -5
The fans that gave up on the show are really there. Gone. And praising the show in a way that doesn't explain anything, but only insists in this repetitive speech that things are going to get better when all the show runners do is release bad news to the public won't bring them back. If you really want to help the show, tell the show runners to better their RP. I am not not trying to convince anyone at all - really not interested in convincing people. Each one of us have their own thoughts and opinions. I am just expressing my thoughts and feelings. I love this forum because it is respectful to peoples opinions and because I can express how I feel. Exactly. It makes no sense that others can express disappointment or dislike about something (which is 100% fair) but yet when there is a differing point of view, it is treated with rudeness and some contempt. Isn't a forum a place to express ALL views, regardless if we agree or not?
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