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Post by yfaruqi on Dec 6, 2013 8:35:46 GMT -5
The writer's need to find the right balance that will attract men and women to the show which can be done if it's done in the right way just like a couple who can have many different likes and dislikes and interests but at the core is something special that connects them together and for this show it is the connection that Vincat have and all that comes with that love, trust, compassion for each other and wanting to work together to stay together. I have never seen Tori has a better option for Vince just becuase she is a beast doesn't automatically make her the right one for him and I do agree that she comes across as a spoilt brat who to be honest is to immature for Vincent and enjoys the kill to much and so it would be easy for Vincent to fallfor that becuase she is constantly in his ear, whereas Catherine makes him think about his actions and accepted that he did always do the right thing which sadly at the moment it's hard to see Vincent doing that. I would still like to see the writer's still somehow combine season 1 and season 2 Vincent becuase I get that we aren't going to get Vincent 1 back he's changed and change can be good as long as you learn from whatever made you change in the first place and you go forward, but for me while Tori is in the picture he's not going to go forward becuase she is that pull that will want him to stay full beast mode with her while that pull he supposedly felt for Cat in ' Kidnapped' get's less and less. I to don't mind a bit of action in a tv show and diversity with the leads to is okay but not to the degree that BK has done it's been done to quick and which ever way you look at it BATB has always been about love and acceptance between the two leads not how many people they get with before they decide that they want to be with each other, you don't have to have heavy make out sessions every episode that would get boring give them obstacles by all means but also make the core something that's special and what keeps them fighting those obstacles to stay together and fight for that love that keeps me interested in a show like this, and if not like I said before and this is purely my own view then maybe they should re think the name of the show becuase at the moment it is tainting the essence of batb and that's a shame. I don't think any of us would mind the addition of action and mythology to the show as the romance alone can only go so far without it but you are right the core of the show has changed and essentially it is a new show. It would almost make more sense if this was a second life for VinCat setup 30 years after season 1 where they were born again and only retained vague recollections of an earlier life...
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Post by yfaruqi on Dec 6, 2013 9:28:25 GMT -5
Ah....but that 99% fan base is what has helped keep BATB on the air. Still don't see that many men interested in the show after the infamous "re-boot." All I see is part of that phenom fan base turning off their televisions. I love action and drama. I would rather watch an action movie than any "chick flick." However, I loved BATB because it was different. The romance and epic love story was honest and sincere. Yes, it may have been a "fairy tale," but we didn't care -- we need to get away from reality sometimes. I realize this does not always appeal to men. Had we been given a Season 2 with more consistency, better editing, and more mythology along with the romance and epic love, I believe word of mouth would have provided more viewership. Beasties are that strong. The "re-boot" left out and practically erased the premise of the show and the very reason they had a strong, unwavering fan base. No romance, no epic love story = less viewers. Female or not. I guess I'm part of the 1% so don't have much of a vote, good thing I do have freedom of speech. There is no doubt that there are differences between men and women, I love season 1 but probably not for the exact same reasons a lot of ladies did. With all due respect to the 99% ladies I don't care about seeing a shirtless Vincent or VinCat make out sessions what I enjoyed about season 1 was that it was simply a tale of two heroic people who went through dark times but still kept on to their humanity in fighting for what's right and enjoying the act of helping others. Apart from the viewers JT was the only one who understood and stood by them, he was their only ally (Tess did come in later but apparently she couldn't care less about Vincent as opposed to JT who cared about both of them). As my wife can attest to I like a lot of shows/movies that are geared towards guys but just found this show to be different and something refreshing to see which is why I love this show among all other shows I like.
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condor
Army Recruit
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Post by condor on Dec 6, 2013 12:32:43 GMT -5
I don't think any of us would mind the addition of action and mythology to the show as the romance alone can only go so far without it but you are right the core of the show has changed and essentially it is a new show. It would almost make more sense if this was a second life for VinCat setup 30 years after season 1 where they were born again and only retained vague recollections of an earlier life... Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Whatever happened in S1 is irrelevant and this is now a brand new show.
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Post by katiebeast S3 <3 on Dec 6, 2013 12:48:33 GMT -5
I don't think any of us would mind the addition of action and mythology to the show as the romance alone can only go so far without it but you are right the core of the show has changed and essentially it is a new show. It would almost make more sense if this was a second life for VinCat setup 30 years after season 1 where they were born again and only retained vague recollections of an earlier life... Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Whatever happened in S1 is irrelevant and this is now a brand new show.
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Post by kiki09 on Dec 6, 2013 14:00:09 GMT -5
I don't think any of us would mind the addition of action and mythology to the show as the romance alone can only go so far without it but you are right the core of the show has changed and essentially it is a new show. It would almost make more sense if this was a second life for VinCat setup 30 years after season 1 where they were born again and only retained vague recollections of an earlier life... Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Whatever happened in S1 is irrelevant and this is now a brand new show. In a sense, I totally agree. We can't keep looking backwards to 'what happened in s1' and act like anytime something is different from it, that's it's 'ruining the show'. I personally feel that if you keep watching season 2 through 'Rose-tinted s1 glasses' you will never see s2 for what it is by itself and what it can add to the show and will therefore ALWAYS be unhappy IMO.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 6, 2013 14:19:40 GMT -5
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Whatever happened in S1 is irrelevant and this is now a brand new show. In a sense, I totally agree. We can't keep looking backwards to 'what happened in s1' and act like anytime something is different from it, that's it's 'ruining the show'. I personally feel that if you keep watching season 2 through 'Rose-tinted s1 glasses' you will never see s2 for what it is by itself and what it can add to the show and will therefore ALWAYS be unhappy IMO. yeap yeap agree too
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 14:39:39 GMT -5
Ah....but that 99% fan base is what has helped keep BATB on the air. Still don't see that many men interested in the show after the infamous "re-boot." All I see is part of that phenom fan base turning off their televisions. I love action and drama. I would rather watch an action movie than any "chick flick." However, I loved BATB because it was different. The romance and epic love story was honest and sincere. Yes, it may have been a "fairy tale," but we didn't care -- we need to get away from reality sometimes. I realize this does not always appeal to men. Had we been given a Season 2 with more consistency, better editing, and more mythology along with the romance and epic love, I believe word of mouth would have provided more viewership. Beasties are that strong. The "re-boot" left out and practically erased the premise of the show and the very reason they had a strong, unwavering fan base. No romance, no epic love story = less viewers. Female or not. I guess I'm part of the 1% so don't have much of a vote, good thing I do have freedom of speech. There is no doubt that there are differences between men and women, I love season 1 but probably not for the exact same reasons a lot of ladies did. With all due respect to the 99% ladies I don't care about seeing a shirtless Vincent or VinCat make out sessions what I enjoyed about season 1 was that it was simply a tale of two heroic people who went through dark times but still kept on to their humanity in fighting for what's right and enjoying the act of helping others. Apart from the viewers JT was the only one who understood and stood by them, he was their only ally (Tess did come in later but apparently she couldn't care less about Vincent as opposed to JT who cared about both of them). As my wife can attest to I like a lot of shows/movies that are geared towards guys but just found this show to be different and something refreshing to see which is why I love this show among all other shows I like. Boy, that's a darn good summary of exactly the way I feel too. I'm with you in the 1%. I think the original premise for the show was probably a good one. However, this was the unusual case where the there was TOO MUCH chemistry between the two lead characters and it changed the direction of the show as a result. At that point they had a decision to make of whether to run with it or continue the premise/narrative they had in mind. Hindsight is always 20/20 but they probably should have put the brakes on (somewhat) and not hooked up Vin/Cat. Even Kris has commented on this saying she's from the old school and was surprised they decided to go this direction so early. I agree with her on that. Regardless, it's all water under the bridge at this point. As mentioned, it's a completely different show now and will sink or swim based on this seasons performance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 15:18:01 GMT -5
I understand the argument as much as anyone else here. Yes, it's a valid point.
But...
I fell in love with the show I saw in S1. That was the show I wanted to see, that was the show I supported through hours of voting, trying to convince my friends to see it or participating in the fans' campaigns.
Fans are feeling betrayed and leaving the show because they transformed it into something that wasn't what most of us fought so hard to have. If I even had dreamed that I would fight so hard for BatB and find out that I would lose the show anyways, I would never have tried.
I'm not seeing S2 for “the pink glasses of S1” or whatever people are trying to accuse me (or us, in some cases), I'm seeing it for what it is. The result of my efforts – as meaningless as they might be – that turned out not being what I signed up for.
As many of us, I wouldn't mind to see changes in the show's dynamics or storyline. I wouldn't mind seeing more “realistic” relationships – as if a man being attracted for a woman and disregarding his girlfriend for no other reason than being partly animal, as so many people constantly say to justify this so lovely triangle, could be ever considered realistic – as long as I was still seeing the show I cared enough to support having a second season.
S1 was not irrelevant. S1 was what brought us here, was what made this show have a second chance.
Maybe they aren't wasting the show. That remains to be seen.
But they certainly wasted my love for it.
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Post by kiki09 on Dec 6, 2013 15:49:46 GMT -5
You see I understand the frustration because some eps left me feeling more frustrated than others but to me that does not mean all is lost. Maybe I'm being a bit naive or utopian about this but I just don't believe that 8 episodes will determine the trajectory of an entire season. Season 1 already taught us this lesson.
And if you feel like it was a personal attack Vincent Chandler, it wasn't. I'm just trying to see all aspects of this because there are varying views/sides and opinions on BATB and all of them should have the opportunity to be voiced.
With season 1, if we just do a general review of it, the romance was extremely strong, probably the strongest element of the show. The chemistry was there and it was great we all loved it.
But that not all the show was. Even from s1, there were other elements that added to the show but the romance underlies all of it.
However, even reading comments in episode threads from this forum, a lot of people had problems with other aspects of the show and were very critical of it. For example people would say that the procedurals weren't strong enough, the dialogue was 'cheesy at times,' Muirfield isn't a real threat as a big bad, he wasn't beastly enough, it's all rushed etc.
So the way I see it so far is that they tightened these things up in these 8 eps so that it could match the already strong aspect which is the romance, so that all of it was at an equal level.
Was the romance aspect not as much in the forefront as before, to a certain degree yes but that does not mean that all is lost and it won't be back. Maybe we were too reliant on it in s1 or we wanted it to stay exactly the same as before (which is 100% okay too) but I'm not sure that it would have the legs to stand on it's own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 17:05:25 GMT -5
kiki09, I didn't take it as a personal attack. I don't consider myself important enough in this little comunity to deserve that much attention. I talked in first person because I don't have the right to talk in name of anyone else.
But I do think that is hurtful to see people saying that S1 was irrelevant and should be disregarded and erased, that we're refusing to let go of the show we fought so hard to have because we're brats - I'm not saying you ever said that - and that we shouldn't compare both season because this is a completely different show and we should be really grateful about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 22:03:25 GMT -5
I am sadly among the 0% (Am I really alone on this?) that does not see S2 as a totally different show from S1. If I was wearing rose colour glasses in S1, I am still wearing rose colour glasses while watching S2. The show wasn't perfect in S1 and it still isn't perfect in S2, but I loved it and I still love it. I want to give this season a chance to develop, and I believe that this episode will be very enlightening and will have a deep impact on Vincent and Catherine.
For me, Vincent and Catherine are still the heroes, and, yes, their experiences have affected them, but, at the core, they still hold the same values. They still want to protect and save each other and they still want to help other people. As far as their relationship is concerned, they have lost their way and the road is a little dark, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and they will begin to walk in the right direction and sooner or later, and I think it will be sooner, their paths will meet again and they will continue to walk on the same road, together. And I am ready to go through the whole spectrum of emotions I will have to experience in order to get there with them. I am buckled up and ready to go.
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Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Dec 6, 2013 23:37:36 GMT -5
Ah....but that 99% fan base is what has helped keep BATB on the air. Still don't see that many men interested in the show after the infamous "re-boot." All I see is part of that phenom fan base turning off their televisions. I love action and drama. I would rather watch an action movie than any "chick flick." However, I loved BATB because it was different. The romance and epic love story was honest and sincere. Yes, it may have been a "fairy tale," but we didn't care -- we need to get away from reality sometimes. I realize this does not always appeal to men. Had we been given a Season 2 with more consistency, better editing, and more mythology along with the romance and epic love, I believe word of mouth would have provided more viewership. Beasties are that strong. The "re-boot" left out and practically erased the premise of the show and the very reason they had a strong, unwavering fan base. No romance, no epic love story = less viewers. Female or not. I guess I'm part of the 1% so don't have much of a vote, good thing I do have freedom of speech. There is no doubt that there are differences between men and women, I love season 1 but probably not for the exact same reasons a lot of ladies did. With all due respect to the 99% ladies I don't care about seeing a shirtless Vincent or VinCat make out sessions what I enjoyed about season 1 was that it was simply a tale of two heroic people who went through dark times but still kept on to their humanity in fighting for what's right and enjoying the act of helping others. Apart from the viewers JT was the only one who understood and stood by them, he was their only ally (Tess did come in later but apparently she couldn't care less about Vincent as opposed to JT who cared about both of them). As my wife can attest to I like a lot of shows/movies that are geared towards guys but just found this show to be different and something refreshing to see which is why I love this show among all other shows I like. I must be part of the 1% too, then. It wasn't a "shirtless Vincent" or a "VinCat make out session" that made me watch. It was the idea of love conquering all and reminding us that "good" does prevail. That concept alone is romantic. IMHO romance, and love for that matter, isn't "sex." Sex is not love; but love CAN be sex. You are right -- the show was refreshing and different and although not always edited well or even well-written, BATB was always enjoyable if not taken too seriously. I always referred to it as "my favorite, wonderful, mindless drivel;" it took my mind off my tedious job and the pressures of running a household and de-stressed me. LOL! Season 2 has shown us wonderful acting, much better editing, more thought-out storylines, drama, and action. It is a "better" show. Yet somehow, IMHO, in the re-boot we lost some of the "magic." I still love the show; I just miss some of the original elements.
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Post by yfaruqi on Dec 6, 2013 23:54:59 GMT -5
I must be part of the 1% too, then. It wasn't a "shirtless Vincent" or a "VinCat make out session" that made me watch. It was the idea of love conquering all and reminding us that "good" does prevail. That concept alone is romantic. IMHO romance, and love for that matter, isn't "sex." Sex is not love; but love CAN be sex. You are right -- the show was refreshing and different and although not always edited well or even well-written, BATB was always enjoyable if not taken too seriously. I always referred to it as "my favorite, wonderful, mindless drivel;" it took my mind off my tedious job and the pressures of running a household and de-stressed me. LOL! Season 2 has shown us wonderful acting, much better editing, more thought-out storylines, drama, and action. It is a "better" show. Yet somehow, IMHO, in the re-boot we lost some of the "magic." I still love the show; I just miss some of the original elements.You are right about that, season 2 is better in those regards and the way it started out with Cat's restless sleep while searching for Vincent it made me feel like we picked off right where the last season ended. It's the little things that happened after that which bothered me from Tess doing nothing but encouraging Gabe, JT being mostly absent and Vincent pretty much not the person Cat fell in love with. In fact if someone starts watching this show from season 2 there is a good chance they might think Gabe is the hero in this story and not Vincent. At least the fact that the first 3 episodes were really good and had some of the magic of last season makes me think we may end up getting some of the magic back in the later part of this season. I really hope that happens because honestly I miss that feeling of enjoying their journey from season 1 where they were fighting together against pretty much everybody else and as Cat once said to Tess the world is a better safer place with Vincent in it...at least it used to be...
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Post by feezya on Dec 9, 2013 4:51:19 GMT -5
What does this mean? sorry english not my main language...
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Dec 9, 2013 9:05:12 GMT -5
What does this mean? sorry english not my main language... "Knocking it out of the park " means like "hitting a Home Run" in Baseball! It is a score and a Big Deal. So.....Jenna means that she feels like BaTB is doing a FANTASTIC JOB, this season. IMO.......in many ways yes and no. For me, "yes" in that the action and fight scenes and some story plots have been well executed. The intensity and drama is amped up. But the romance is a bit dull and lifeless. The addition of Tori is a head scratcher, but I will give it one more episode to give me some reason to care. Hope I answered your question?
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