The truth, the whole truth and nothing but....

[batbfan]

I'm curious, do you think that Catherine should tell Heather and Tess the truth about Vincent? The writers so far have gone to great lengths to convey that knowing Vincent secret is much too dangerous and the secret takes too great a toll on a person's life, leading us to conclude that the only way to ensure a person's safety is to keep them in the dark.

My own take, however, is that they should find out, because only then can they take steps to protect themselves rather than unwittingly putting themselves and Catherine and Vincent in danger. I think the most obvious objection to this strategy is that Heather and Tess will worry about Cat and may take unnecessary risks to protect her not to mention they will always be looking over their shoulders. However they are already very worried about Cat and this has caused them to snoop into her life - putting her and Vincent at risk.

I think forewarned is forearmed - if they are informed about how Alex approached a news reporter with the story and the consequences of that, they will be disinclined to go public with the story (in a well intentioned attempt to expose Muirfield). Cat would need to have all of her bases covered - what they should do if she seems to go missing for any period of time for example, she would need to explain to them that they can't meet Vincent and preempt countless issues and situations that might arise.

The big problem is that Heather and Tess have already shown a huge tendency to interfere in her life. They pretty much gave her an ultimatum to leave Vincent 'Zalanski' or she would loose them - which is tantamount to emotional blackmail although I'm sure they rationalised their decision and believed it was well-intentioned but as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If Cat explains that if they truly love her they will not violate the rules and jeopardise her life - or she will be forced to opt for Plan B, which would involve relocating to protect herself which sadly would mean they would never hear from her again. I know that might sound a little harsh and it may almost appear as though she is using the same strategy used against her but I think it is very different. Her friends wanted to protect her emotionally however she is protecting their very lives - the first is crossing a boundary the other is not. Above all she gives them an opportunity to be honest with them provided that they are mature enough to accept the consequences of that honesty.

I would love to hear your own thoughts.

[Darcy]

Excellent question, batbfan.

First off, let me say I really do feel that it would be wonderful, if not necessary, for Catherine to have someone with whom she can share her thoughts and feelings about the whole situation, other than Vincent. Vincent has JT... Cat needs someone as well. When I say necessary, I mean for her, but also especially for us, the viewers. How wonderful was it to hear Cat's innermost thoughts when she vented to the psychiatrist? I loved being able to finally get her honest feelings. Have you noticed how refreshing and revealing it is to be in on Vincent and JTs conversations about Catherine? (E,g, post-woods conversation, Valentine's Day wooing discussion, and so many more.) We learn things and get an inside perspective that we couldn't get any other way. Catherine needs someone like that so she can process and vent, and so we can get a deeper understanding of what she's thinking and feeling.

Now, there are two sides to this coin. One is what would make for a good and believable story. In that regard, it seems to me that at least Tess should be in on the secret. She has a level head, and is already experienced with life-threatening situations, "bad guys", etc. And she knows how to keep a secret, since she's living a secret life with Joe.

But I'm not at all sure Heather would be able to keep the secret, and/or deal with the seriousness of the threat. Unlike Tess, she has no training that we know of, and doesn't seem to handle pressure situations well, as evidenced by her basket case behavior when Cat is shot (admittedly, she is drunk at the time), as well as her meltdown after Darius is shot. And even at the best of times, when shes not facing a crisis or troubling situation, she basically seems to say whatever comes to mind, without much thought. I know, I may be negatively biased about Heather (I do feel she's mildly ridiculous to "not feel safe with Vincent Zalansky around"), but she is just not emotionally or physically able to handle the pressures and dangers of Vincent and Catherine's life.

Let's face it, there is a tricky element here: The question of accepting that Vincent kills people - whether or not he is responsible for his actions, and whether or not he should be locked up so he can't hurt anyone else. Telling someone this secret is taking a major risk that the person may feel obliged to turn Vincent in to the authorities. That's what I think would happen if (when) Evan finds out.

The other side of the coin is what will make for exciting and captivating TV drama, and that is not always what makes the most "sense". There constantly seems to be a balancing act going on, between believable story lines and the surprise or shock factor that hooks viewers. And I think this is totally normal given the many types of viewers, as evidenced by this forum and the multitude of opinions expressed here; with any given story line the for's and against's are many and varied.

I really have to give kudos to the writers of Beauty and the Beast, for handling this juggling act in what I feel is a careful and successful manner. More so than most TV shows, in my opinion. Sure, there are unbelievable elements (why haven't they traced Vincent through Catherine? why can't they follow Cat or JT to the warehouse? etc). But the same can be said of every show, and especially those with a sci-if/fantasy element. On the whole, however, the story lines and characters make sense. They are believable and we can relate to their emotions and reactions, if not to the actual situations themselves.

It'll be exciting to see where the story goes over the rest of the season...

[evanarose]

I like this question:-

Heather- Hell No! At least not at this point especially after seeing her last episode She might side with Catherine, knowing he saved her life...On the other hand, I can't see her not freaking out about the 'beast'. Even if eventually she got around to accepting him, I think she'd want the 'normal life' not have any involvement with muirfield, etc (she couldn't emotionally take it.). So at this stage..I can't see her knowing the secret as a benefit, but more like it would separate her and cat if she knew. Maybe in the future, if we see more layers to her character but not at present..she doesn't really have the emotional maturity to handle it.

Tess- Yeah....No..Maybe. I think she could understand, not necessarily agree with cat on this. She probably being a cop can emphasize with the dangers of knowing vincents secret but the question is how much she'd be willing to put her job on the line? :/ I can't really see it, unless Vincent saves her or someone close to her life...vincent would really have to leave an impression on her...in other words Tess would have to have a purpose personal to her to fully accept this I think. I don't think doing it just for cat would cut it 100%. Maybe as a once off, but not all the time.

On the other hand, I do like to see an alternate episode where they do find out, maybe through cats/vincents dream...that could be interesting!

You know, you should have put if Evan should know Vincents secret also!? I'm torn here because there have been times where you feel like he would understand....i.e: hinting to JT he'd like to understand it, cure it. But seeing as he has feelings for cat, it does make you question whether he would let that get to him (if he found out.)? :/ I'd like to think Evan is a genuinely nice guy but I think the writers will put a dark side to him with this muirfield business..

Though I am getting a little 'Smallville lex vibe' from him...lol is it only me By that I mean in season 1-2, we had the good lex (or at least a lex trying to be good.) But we see clark hiding his secret from him is a factor in shifting to the dark side. We saw lex digging trying to find out his secret, not letting it go...See what I mean? Evan is digging trying to find out about the mutated DNA, who saved his life (clark saved lex life.) So there is a little similarity there except Evan doesn't know who the DNA is...I mean I'm not saying at all Evan and Lex are the same lol, but I'm getting the feeling the writers may have got some of their inspiration from that (which wouldn't be surprising really since some were from smallville.) Anyway, I'm just hoping they won't take it that far with Évan (have him go towards a dark route.).

[Windflwr]

Hi there! Jumping in here. I would love to see Catherine open up to an old girlfriend (like happened in the old show). Someone who is not involved or in the area (someone Catherine has to go visit), but with whom she can share her feelings about Vincent. I definitely feel that is needed. I'm hoping this will be one of the people from the past that shows up in future episodes.

[ArwenFan]

Catherine shouldn't tell anyone about Vincent without getting his approval, because after all it's his life. That said, I'm ambivalent about anyone knowing V's secret; although, I do like Darcy's suggestion that Catherine have a confidante like Vincent has with J.T. I'm not one who enjoys speculating about where a series should go, but I am a bit concerned about the corner the writers seemingly have put Catherine and Vincent in. It seems their only alternatives are to bring more people into the fold (Tess, Evan) or have Vincent and Catherine leave and start over again.

As for Heather, I could never see her being a secret keeper. She's too immature, too selfish and too needy. Her behavior in "Tough Love" was beyond awful, and she'd already shown herself to be an airhead even before that. I don't get good vibes from Evan, so I don't think it would be a good thing for him to know about Vincent. So, I guess my answer has shaped up to be...no.

[Darcy]

Mar 6, 2013 19:11:27 GMT -5 ArwenFan said:

Catherine shouldn't tell anyone about Vincent without getting his approval, because after all it's his life. That said, I'm ambivalent about anyone knowing V's secret; although, I do like Darcy's suggestion that Catherine have a confidante like Vincent has with J.T. I'm not one who enjoys speculating about where a series should go, but I am a bit concerned about the corner the writers seemingly have put Catherine and Vincent in. It seems their only alternatives are to bring more people into the fold (Tess, Evan) or have Vincent and Catherine leave and start over again.

As for Heather, I could never see her being a secret keeper. She's too immature, too selfish and too needy. Her behavior in "Tough Love" was beyond awful, and she'd already shown herself to be an airhead even before that. I don't get good vibes from Evan, so I don't think it would be a good thing for him to know about Vincent. So, I guess my answer has shaped up to be...no.

Good points, arwenfan. it is difficult to see any way, any one that will work well.

In the original show, it seems to me that Catherine didn't really have anyone with whom she can confide. There is one old girlfriend that she talks to, sort of, in one or two episodes, but mainly she just copes with the situation, talks to Vincent, but we never really know her thought process. That was always a somewhat frustrating side of it, but nevertheless, the show was excellent, and it worked.

Got to say that I think the writers have done an excellent job so far, and I'm just going to trust they will continue to work things out well. Interestingly, today's BATB is vastly different from the original one in that public opinion seems to play a huge part in the series. Never before has so much pressure been brought to bear on the network, writers, etc. Not sure how much of a factor that is in deciding the direction of the show, but I'm betting it's not insignificant...

[oa]

would love that!

[batbfan]

Thanks so much Darcy, evanarose, windflwr, ArwenFan and oa.

Darcy, your argument that Tess would a better confidant than Heather is absolutely correct, perhaps Muirfield needs to be brought down before Heather can know the truth? I agree with you that the most realistic options are not always the most entertaining. It is safe to say that here is something immensely entertaining about someone keeping a secret of this magnitude from friends when they have a legitimate reason for doing so and the constant tension which ensues.

I also think Tess would be a great sounding board for Catherine's interior life. A big difference between Catherine in this series and the last is that the original Catherine was more verbal about emotions and feelings and didn't really need a confidant as she always spoke so directly to Vincent. KK's Cat is more reserved when expressing her emotions, an aspect of her character established early on in the series. I think it has been an interesting take but it is perhaps time for her to open up more, given all she has to contend with. Lind Hamilton's Catherine always had a series of threats to contend with but in this most recent incarnation Cat has an extremely serious threat which is always looming and gets closer and closer to destroying her life, there are no easy resolutions for her.

EvanaRose you're right about including Evan, you have alluded to how complicated that issue would be. I won't rush in where angels fear to tread on that one I have stated elsewhere on the forum that I am not particularly fond of the character but he may yet redeem himself or irk me further, time will tell.

I have a strong feeling Evan may take a somewhat dark route (envy is a powerful motivator) before seeing the light and making some kind of noble sacrifice to save Catherine or at least an act of atonement for all the harm he has caused. Evan's description of the cross-species individual stalking its prey is actually more fitting to describe his own behaviour because his love is clearly unrequited and has shown he can't let her go (well when she looks like KK one can understand.). I can't put my finger on the reason why exactly, but I keep getting this sinking feeling that Evan is heading for disaster and will ultimately have to sacrifice himself and I think this will happen sooner rather than later.

Windflwr would like to see past actors from the original appear in some capacity also as a homage Smallville style.

Lastly ArwenFan couldn't agree more that Vicent's opinion and agreement must be sought before any action is taken.

Thanks and keep the comments coming.


P.S. See recent spoilers if you are interested......

[eve]

Hi all, Jumping in here. I agree with Arwen, Heather is immature and would not be able to handle the situation and Tess is an obvious choice but she is also coop - is she willing to put her life and job in jeopardy by keeping a secret of that magnitude...Its a big sacrifice and she will need something else then Cat being her bff. Vincent saving Tess life would be a start, but I keep thinking thats maybe not enough - but it may work if saving Tess´s life will somehow be at cost for Vincent and/or Cat - (the selfless act). Thats said, I am not sure if it is a good idea Cat telling someone so early in the process. Personally I would like to wait with the big revelation to others.

But I also agree that Catherine needs someone she can talk to share her feelings and frustration with. She could talk to Vincent like in the old series, but she did try that in saturn returns and worth where she tells Vincent how hard it is to keep the secret and tell lie to friends and family the sharing only got Vincent to feel more guilty. Why not JT?, I know he is Vincent's friend but that will maybe make it just better he knows Vincent and now also Cat and not to mention there could also be some fun scenes with him being in the middle of VinCat situation...

[Darcy]

Eve, good points here! I like the idea of JT being the joint confidant, but I can see how that could get complicated... . Tricky for him to remain neutral, or impartial. Plus the point of view of the two guys is so different than that of girls. Remember the Valentine episode - when Vincent comes in the warehouse, JT thinks it's quite humorous that Cat is giving Vincent the cold shoulder because of Alex. But this forum is proof positive that we find pretty much NOTHING humorous with that whole situation. So would JT really be able to understand and resonate with Catherine? I'm not too sure.

Batbfan - I see your point about how the original Catherine was more verbal, and revealed more of her feelings to Vincent... I need to think about that a bit. And it is definitely true that the new VinCat circumstances are much different. They are in dire danger, pretty much all the time. I'm with you about Evan... Things are definitely going to get worse with him before they get better.

[evanarose]

^ Well according to spoilers, it looks like Cat might have someone to confide in. I'm guessing most of us read the spoilers lol? I won't write much more seeing as this isn't the spoiler section, but the future episode title shall give a hint...

Anyway, I haven't seen the 80s version of batb, but I think Cat is starting to get more verbal and reveal her feelings to Vincent. She is knocking down her walls. To me, it almost feels like she does a 360 with Vincent...to others she appears closed, strong willed, independent (well the last few episodes, she shows to Tess and Heather she is more dependable towards Vincent.). But I'm a little surprised that the amount of vulnerability that she has shown considering..But I think that's Kristin, she really acts that well, maybe even too good and too much lol.

Don't get me wrong, I want Cat to knock down her walls, open up to Vincent but at the same time with the spoilers and revelation there's been with Vincent lately, I'm probably in the minority but she's falling hard and it feels bit like she's got tunnel vision...like she knows the dangers of his life but how much does she know about him? It's like her sacrifice is based more on her love, than the logic, which isn't too much of a bad thing but the way that the writers made her character to be, you'd think she'd be more cautious-ish. Though I'm liking this preview clip how honest they are with each other. I think that helps with trust (well hope V isn't lying lol.) and should mean they are going forward..

Anyway, I love vincat but I hope they won't go into the 'Twilight' kinda relationship lol. Like Bella pretty much goes so deep with her relationship with Edward that she sacrifices her life with friends, family pretty much entirely. I hope that won't happen with vincat because I like the other characters- JT, Tess, Heather sometimes lol, etc.

[ArwenFan]

Mar 9, 2013 2:47:27 GMT -5 evanarose said:

^ Well according to spoilers, it looks like Cat might have someone to confide in. I'm guessing most of us read the spoilers lol?

No. I don't read spoilers. So appreciate them not being posted outside of the spoiler thread.

batbfan, I see your point about O/C, but I've been very impressed with how forthcoming KK's Catherine has been on the subject of her feelings for Vincent. I see the reticence mainly on his part and with good reason. I saw an extended clip on another site for next week's episode and it sheds quite a bit of light on Vincent's fears about a serious relationship.

Darcy, I thought J.T.'s reaction to Vincent's situation on V-Day was amusement, but at V's expense, not Catherine's. He was quite astute in his explanation as to why Cat had shutdown. He also sympathized with Catherine's feelings when she had to visit the romantic cabin. J.T. is not a touchy-feely type dude and he cuts through the BS in typical NYker fashion. I love that about him. Anyway, I think he could serve as a sounding board for both parties because he doesn't over-share.

[Andromeda03]

Friendly Mod Reminder: Please remember to not discuss/mention spoilers, even if it's only a minor one, outside of the spoiler area. Some people like to not be spoiled in any capacity and we have a designated spoiler section for that purpose.

Thank you everyone!

[Darcy]

Mar 9, 2013 13:28:03 GMT -5 ArwenFan said:

Mar 9, 2013 2:47:27 GMT -5 evanarose said:

^ Well according to spoilers, it looks like Cat might have someone to confide in. I'm guessing most of us read the spoilers lol?

Darcy, I thought J.T.'s reaction to Vincent's situation on V-Day was amusement, but at V's expense, not Catherine's. He was quite astute in his explanation as to why Cat had shutdown. He also sympathized with Catherine's feelings when she had to visit the romantic cabin. J.T. is not a touchy-feely type dude and he cuts through the BS in typical NYker fashion. I love that about him. Anyway, I think he could serve as a sounding board for both parties because he doesn't over-share.

Good points arwenfan... You may be onto something.