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Post by pippin on Aug 21, 2016 21:27:45 GMT -5
It was nice to see Carl Rota. Too bad he didn't get to do more, but at least his character in BATB didn't get to treat Cat the way he treated KK's character in Ecstasy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 4:21:30 GMT -5
Saw the episode this morning and maybe going to watch another time later but it could be summerized as "everything that could go wrong, went actually wrong"
best highlight for me is Vincent hugging Tess Aww so sweet moment, Tess's words about him as a friend and her best friend man, always there to save all of them despite what they could have done to hurt him (meaning what she had done to hurt him)
Anyway, happy that Tess is now Team VinCat again, at least between law boundaries. And maybe Tess is the first to realize that can't be an A and B plan about VinCat: whatever they decide to act in front of that new beast, their life is ruined because now it is a personal fight for Dillon and the DHS
And then Vincent and JT speech about maybe the last mission together opening that door in a "proper" way... ma more manly moment of separation but their eyes tell a lot about their struggle in doing that even if they know it is the only way
Your theory about Kyle being the beast in a different form is very interesting to me, I haven't thought about that possibility but it seems realistic. For now, Kyle is a very stupid dude to me and, by the way, if I was Vincent I would give him a "little caress" with my claws on that pretty face... but, as someone said, how could you think to gain Heather love if you do that to her sister? Maybe he think that Heather is stupid too? I don't know
The new beast is scary because it could be everything... about the "it" thing: love the dialogue between Vincent and the new Muirfield 3.0 commander.. he goes on speaking about beasts as things (most like Vincent used to speak about himself in the S1) but Vincent reminds him that they are human being turned into monster against their will. Great affirmation
Yes no sweet lonely VinCat moments but it is right for me: how could you think about having that type of physical contact when all your world is breaking apart? few desperate kisses for them
First scene: seriously JT you offered Vincent a fake ID of a Chan Wang? Vincent doesn't seems to have asian origin at all! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 4:41:38 GMT -5
about Jay with glasses: I don't think they thought to make Vincent unrecognizable only with a pair of eyeglasses... I think that day Jay couldn't us contact lenses and had to wear eyeglasses coz they seems like his own one
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 9:01:40 GMT -5
Another great moment after rewatching: when Tess says "The war is over" ... a very tough sentence. And then the two sisters embracing each other and crying while Vin, JT and Tess watching away from each other maybe crying. It is so heartbraking For all those that loved the #beasthug here it is www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvjJfGj4bXI
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Post by pippin on Aug 22, 2016 9:36:31 GMT -5
best highlight for me is Vincent hugging Tess Aww so sweet moment, Tess's words about him as a friend and her best friend man, always there to save all of them despite what they could have done to hurt him (meaning what she had done to hurt him) Beast hug moment was cute. Seemed a bit more Jay than V to me. But I think Tess says he keeps Cat safe, doesn't mention the rest of them. And I don't know whether it was intentional or poor planning on the part of the show, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for saving Cat at the Salty Dawg, have any of them been saved by V from a situation that wasn't because of him, whether directly or indirectly? I used to think Evan would have been dead anyway but psycho Peter was recreating the Pilot's subway mauling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 9:58:33 GMT -5
best highlight for me is Vincent hugging Tess Aww so sweet moment, Tess's words about him as a friend and her best friend man, always there to save all of them despite what they could have done to hurt him (meaning what she had done to hurt him) Beast hug moment was cute. S eemed a bit more Jay than V to me. But I think Tess says he keeps Cat safe, doesn't mention the rest of them. And I don't know whether it was intentional or poor planning on the part of the show, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for saving Cat at the Salty Dawg, have any of them bee n saved by V from a situation that wasn't because of him, whether directly or indirectly? I used to think Evan would have been dead anyway but psycho Peter was recreating the Pilot's subway mauling. As we saw in 4.05 Cat's life would be in danger anyway both with Vincent in it or not because she was all concentrated to find the "thing" that saved her log time ago. So Vincent in a way saves Cat from herself and then in all those situations where he is involved directly or indirectly. Vincent in fact keeps safe all of them mostly because they are involved with Cat... he saved Tess at the precint in S2 the day of her birthday for example, and Cat and Vincent together saved JT from his obsession to find a cure for his friend because with Cat on his life Vincent no longer desire to free himself from the beast... it is a more complicated situation, but Tess in that convo wanted to focus the attention on how much she care to Cat despite her recent behaviour... And yes I think he is more Jay than Vincent too.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Aug 22, 2016 10:20:37 GMT -5
Beast hug moment was cute. S eemed a bit more Jay than V to me. But I think Tess says he keeps Cat safe, doesn't mention the rest of them. And I don't know whether it was intentional or poor planning on the part of the show, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for saving Cat at the Salty Dawg, have any of them bee n saved by V from a situation that wasn't because of him, whether directly or indirectly? I used to think Evan would have been dead anyway but psycho Peter was recreating the Pilot's subway mauling. As we saw in 4.05 Cat's life would be in danger anyway both with Vincent in it or not because she was all concentrated to find the "thing" that saved her log time ago. So Vincent in a way saves Cat from herself and then in all those situations where he is involved directly or indirectly. Vincent in fact keeps safe all of them mostly because they are involved with Cat... he saved Tess at the precint in S2 the day of her birthday for example, and Cat and Vincent together saved JT from his obsession to find a cure for his friend because with Cat on his life Vincent no longer desire to free himself from the beast... it is a more complicated situation, but Tess in that convo wanted to focus the attention on how much she care to Cat despite her recent behaviour... And yes I think he is more Jay than Vincent too. Vincent saved Cat several times when it really had not a lot to do with him. Didn't he save her in S1 Anniversary from the sniper that was hired by the mob family to kill Gabe. Also he saved her twice in the pilot from people sent to kill her because she was 'poking her nose' into her mother's death. The bike messenger and the three Muirfield/FBI agents in the subway. Of course, she was looking into her mother's death because she had just met Vincent and thought he might know something but he warned her not to so it really wasn't his fault she was in danger. He also saved Tess when she fell into the storm drain in the sewer after being shot at and left for dead by the trigger-happy cops hired by Gabe in 'Partners in Crime'. JT has been saved by Vincent on too many occasions to mention and so has Cat. Vincent has also saved countless innocent bystanders from being robbed, attacked or blown-up, each time risking exposure of his beast side.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Aug 22, 2016 10:35:06 GMT -5
It was nice to see Carl Rota. Too bad he didn't get to do more, but at least his character in BATB didn't get to treat Cat the way he treated KK's character in Ecstasy. I love Carlo Rota too. I remember him as Chloe's husband in '24' and he's also played great baddies in NCIS:Los Angeles and CSI:NY. Just one question to all you American and Canadian viewers, why are most of the baddies in your shows and Hollywood movies played by English actors? I am a Londoner and I've always wondered why this is. Should I take it personally? Do you think we are all evil or not to be trusted? LOL
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 10:43:12 GMT -5
It was nice to see Carl Rota. Too bad he didn't get to do more, but at least his character in BATB didn't get to treat Cat the way he treated KK's character in Ecstasy. I love Carlo Rota too. I remember him as Chloe's husband in '24' and he's also played great baddies in NCIS:Los Angeles and CSI:NY. Just one question to a ll you American and Canadian viewers, why are most of the baddies in your shows and Hollywood movies played by English actors? I am a Londoner and I've always wondered why this is. Should I take it personally? Do you think we are all evil or not to be trusted? LOL If it makes you feel better Carlo Rota is clearly italian by origins... and it is great being italian in some places in USA... they give you respect ahahha we are always seen as Al Capone descendant :-)
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Aug 22, 2016 10:47:25 GMT -5
I knew there must be a lot of Italian blood there also with that name, but I was of course talking of the English accent that he still has despite all those years in the US and Canada. Still, it does make me feel a little better, It's not just the English that make good baddies, Italians too.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Aug 22, 2016 11:31:53 GMT -5
I think VinCat leaving would have been more effective if they hadn't already gone down this path twice in season 1 and then again in season 2. They were on their way to Canada with no hesitation in Partners in Crime and again in BITNB but now it's boo-hoo we have to leave?? And no one seems to remember Cat and V already have fake IDs from Never Turn Back or apparently how easy they were to get. I suppose Cat could feel more guilty about leaving Heather since her relationship with V is the reason their father is dead and she's leaving Heath with no immediate family now but that didn't seem to concern her in S2. LOL I was thinking about your post Pippin and had a couple of thoughts. Firstly, I didn't actually mind the idea of VinCat trying to run away as, although it was flirted with in Season 1, when they wanted to run off to Denver from Muirfield after Vincent was supposedly on the way to being 'cured' by Gabe's magic pill, they didn't actually do it for reasons we all know about. Again, in Season 2, Vincent was reluctant then ready to take Cat to Canada and Cat was ready then reluctant so again, it didn't happen. Vincent decided to stay and fight and persuaded Cat, and they still had the promise of an exoneration. But this time, there really seems to be no other option. No exoneration is on the table, no matter what they do and how many lives they save by bringing down this new beast. Vincent will be made an example of, for killing Hill, even though Hill was ultimately a coward who broke the law himself by hiring hit-men to kill Vincent, Cat, Tess and JT. One glimmer of light on the horizon though. Agent Dillon does now accept that Vincent is not a bad guy, but says that the powers that be do not see things the same way. On the subject of the fake IDs, they may not still have them. Cat got them when she was an NYPD Dectective. She is not in a position to get more as she has lost both her NYPD and DHS badges. Also, they were only going to Denver, not leaving the country, so this time they needed passports, not IDs. Last time, they were only running from Muirfield, not the law. This time, they would be running from every law enforcement body in the US. One other question. Why is Vincent the reason Cat's father (Thomas Chandler) was killed? I thought this was one of the many unanswered BATB questions. Thomas was on his way to see Cat and had a tablet on him which, when brought back to life, showed a picture of Bob Reynolds. I thought at the end of Season 1 that Bob Reynolds had Thomas Chandler killed to stop him telling Cat who her real father was. After all, he murdered Tyler in cold blood and left Gabe for dead so I wouldn't have put it past him. However, I changed my mind when Bob finally spoke to Cat as her father, as I realised that, although Bob was a bad man, he would not have killed Thomas. Then I just assumed Muirfield killed him for some reason we would find out in Season 2. But we never did. On the Heather front, when Cat was going to leave for Canada with Vincent, Heather was working in Miami, so essentially, she had already left Cat. Also, leaving Heather this time around wouldn't have to be the end. Cat and Vincent might not be able to come back but that would not stop Heather going to see them once they were settled somewhere.
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Post by sweetrosie29 on Aug 22, 2016 12:58:04 GMT -5
Have to say I shed a few tears this episode especially when Cat and Heather were talking it was played so well by Heather and Kristin, loved the Convo between Tess and Vincent and agree to that the hug seemed a bit more Jay and you can clearly see for me anyway how close the cast had gotten to get the years the feelings they were all expressing seemed so genuine and not just acting.
I really will miss this little show if ours it's been a fun ride even with all the loop de loops.
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Post by pippin on Aug 22, 2016 13:06:39 GMT -5
Beast hug moment was cute. S eemed a bit more Jay than V to me. But I think Tess says he keeps Cat safe, doesn't mention the rest of them. And I don't know whether it was intentional or poor planning on the part of the show, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for saving Cat at the Salty Dawg, have any of them bee n saved by V from a situation that wasn't because of him, whether directly or indirectly? I used to think Evan would have been dead anyway but psycho Peter was recreating the Pilot's subway mauling. As we saw in 4.05 Cat's life would be in danger anyway both with Vincent in it or not because she was all concentrated to find the "thing" that saved her log time ago. So Vincent in a way saves Cat from herself and then in all those situations where he is involved directly or indirectly. Vincent in fact keeps safe all of them mostly because they are involved with Cat... he saved Tess at the precint in S2 the day of her birthday for example, and Cat and Vincent together saved JT from his obsession to find a cure for his friend because with Cat on his life Vincent no longer desire to free himself from the beast... it is a more complicated situation, but Tess in that convo wanted to focus the attention on how much she care to Cat despite her recent behaviour... And yes I think he is more Jay than Vincent too. In 405, I don't think Cat was shown to be in danger from Muirfield until Vincent popped back into her life. By inserting himself back into her "life," he sets off the chain of events leading Muirfield to use her as bait. Of course in the Pilot his corrupted DNA on Ashley sets off Cat to contact FBI / Muirfield. The precinct hostage was only because of Vincent and that stupid gem plot. Vincent saved Cat several times when it really had not a lot to do with him. Didn't he save her in S1 Anniversary from the sniper that was hired by the mob family to kill Gabe. Also he saved her twice in the pilot from people sent to kill her because she was 'poking her nose' into her mother's death. The bike messenger and the three Muirfield/FBI agents in the subway. Of course, she was looking into her mother's death because she had just met Vincent and thought he might know something but he warned her not to so it really wasn't his fault she was in danger. He also saved Tess when she fell into the storm drain in the sewer after being shot at and left for dead by the trigger-happy cops hired by Gabe in 'Partners in Crime'. JT has been saved by Vincent on too many occasions to mention and so has Cat. Vincent has also saved countless innocent bystanders from being robbed, attacked or blown-up, each time risking exposure of his beast side. But wasn't she out there investigating with Gabe because they thought it was beast-related? The bike messenger was in the 2nd episode, but he did save her twice in the Pilot when her mother was killed and then in the subway. But if he doesn't leave his corrupted DNA at the crime scene, Cat doesn't call FBI/Muirfield and doesn't get lured into the subway Tess getting shot in the sewer was were very much linked to Vincent, and JT's whole situation is all about Vincent. I was thinking,in season 1 especially, since the show was very much a procedural, the writers could have had Tess be in danger from a case that had no relation to Vincent at all. They could have introduced a non-Muirfield related bad, like some gang that Cat and Tess were investigating who would have killed Tess if Vincent hadn't saved her. They could even have had Sara be a psycho who went fatal attraction on JT or something so their lives weren't in danger only because of Vincent. They did better with Evan since Peter was his intern even if he wanted to re-create a Vincent kill, and Sabrina, although Vincent brought the case to Cat, but those were good non-beast related vililans. I think 405 did touch on something that might have made a better or more interesting case for the Vincent saving Cat angle but Cat would have had to been written very differently in the first season.
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Post by Jewels on Aug 22, 2016 16:12:36 GMT -5
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 22, 2016 16:41:18 GMT -5
As we saw in 4.05 Cat's life would be in danger anyway both with Vincent in it or not because she was all concentrated to find the "thing" that saved her log time ago. So Vincent in a way saves Cat from herself and then in all those situations where he is involved directly or indirectly. Vincent in fact keeps safe all of them mostly because they are involved with Cat... he saved Tess at the precint in S2 the day of her birthday for example, and Cat and Vincent together saved JT from his obsession to find a cure for his friend because with Cat on his life Vincent no longer desire to free himself from the beast... it is a more complicated situation, but Tess in that convo wanted to focus the attention on how much she care to Cat despite her recent behaviour... And yes I think he is more Jay than Vincent too. In 405, I don't think Cat was shown to be in danger from Muirfield until Vincent popped back into her life. By inserting himself back into her "life," he sets off the chain of events leading Muirfield to use her as bait. Of course in the Pilot his corrupted DNA on Ashley sets off Cat to contact FBI / Muirfield. The precinct hostage was only because of Vincent and that stupid gem plot. Vincent saved Cat several times when it really had not a lot to do with him. Didn't he save her in S1 Anniversary from the sniper that was hired by the mob family to kill Gabe. Also he saved her twice in the pilot from people sent to kill her because she was 'poking her nose' into her mother's death. The bike messenger and the three Muirfield/FBI agents in the subway. Of course, she was looking into her mother's death because she had just met Vincent and thought he might know something but he warned her not to so it really wasn't his fault she was in danger. He also saved Tess when she fell into the storm drain in the sewer after being shot at and left for dead by the trigger-happy cops hired by Gabe in 'Partners in Crime'. JT has been saved by Vincent on too many occasions to mention and so has Cat. Vincent has also saved countless innocent bystanders from being robbed, attacked or blown-up, each time risking exposure of his beast side. But wasn't she out there investigating with Gabe because they thought it was beast-related? The bike messenger was in the 2nd episode, but he did save her twice in the Pilot when her mother was killed and then in the subway. But if he doesn't leave his corrupted DNA at the crime scene, Cat doesn't call FBI/Muirfield and doesn't get lured into the subway Tess getting shot in the sewer was were very much linked to Vincent, and JT's whole situation is all about Vincent. I was thinking,in season 1 especially, since the show was very much a procedural, the writers could have had Tess be in danger from a case that had no relation to Vincent at all. They could have introduced a non-Muirfield related bad, like some gang that Cat and Tess were investigating who would have killed Tess if Vincent hadn't saved her. They could even have had Sara be a psycho who went fatal attraction on JT or something so their lives weren't in danger only because of Vincent. They did better with Evan since Peter was his intern even if he wanted to re-create a Vincent kill, and Sabrina, although Vincent brought the case to Cat, but those were good non-beast related vililans. I think 405 did touch on something that might have made a better or more interesting case for the Vincent saving Cat angle but Cat would have had to been written very differently in the first season. pippin, you're starting to make me think that Cat, the Scooby gang, and everyone who's died in this show really would have been better without Vincent in their lives. So 405 was wrong, or was it? I also just realized that the flaw in 405 is that Cat is still alive. She should have died the night her mother was murdered without V there to save her.
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