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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jan 22, 2014 19:12:37 GMT -5
^ Exactly x2. I hope that wasn't how my response sounded… I do think he should know whether Vincent 2.0 has his memories back, but the fact that he doesn't, or won't say… LOL. There is a little something wrong with that picture. Either he has an issue with it, as others mentioned, or feels it has been murky. I think it would be hard to portray the character without knowing what he was supposed to remember about himself or Catherine or anything else. Maybe he was just as surprised to read that according to B. Kern, Vincent pretty much has his memories back…
Anyway, I think he is giving good advice, and yes, it isn't his fault that the writing is screwy. It just makes me wonder WTH is going on if the actor who is playing the character doesn't know or can't answer these types of questions… it's a little suspect. It should be important to his characterization, that is all I'm saying.
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Post by yfaruqi on Jan 22, 2014 19:13:44 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that 10,000 yrs ago they didn't have iron or whatever metal that collar was made of. Not on earth but that doesn't mean there weren't aliens 10,000 years ago..
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 20:30:28 GMT -5
Now that it was stablished that ToriCent exist, I'll have to go back and say that people that said that she-beast entered the show to fix the Alex fiasco were probably on the right track. Except that it looks like it would be 7836879268 times worse now. That was funny Vincent Chandler! And I agree 100% - Tori arc is sooooo much worse than Alex's! I was one of those people who thought that they were going to fix the Alex mess using the Tori arc to do it, because it was indicated by the producers (I think Sherri Cooper) that they do so. But, no surprise, they lied AGAIN!! I would NEVER support any of their present/future endeavours again!
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 20:45:36 GMT -5
Do you really believe that's the story they're telling? This whole of individual growth is just an excuse that'll neveer have a pay off. It's like I said, Gabe's lips are fertilizer? That's why Cat will grow individually kissing him? and that is my point, i feel we wont see any individual growth, especially now that the episodes are condensed with what i was saying i was questioning the theme of individual growth, i dont think there is any time to really achieve it And that's a shame, isn't it? What a waste of a Season! And for what? This soap opera drama! They completely ripped VinCat to shreds ...all for drama! And then they say they'll bring them back together....and stronger. How can they achieve that after everything that happened since the start of Season 2? Too many lines were crossed, too much hurt and pain....and we went through it with them - EVERY step of the way. The writers would redeem Vincent for Catherine (and vice versa), but for ME, he is UNREDEEMABLE. They cannot undo what was done.
I guess the writer's way of showing the "who am I"/"self-discovery"/"individual growth" quest is by having CAtherine kiss every guy she comes across and Vincent tagging along behind Tori. What a waste!
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 20:52:15 GMT -5
Hum... I wish I could believe that, but you were the one constantly saying that she-beast didn't want to be Vincent's girlfriend. And that Tori wasn't "jealous" at all. Then they add the "screw you" comment from Tori after she is upset and storms out of the bar. Vincent and Tori are totally not GF and BF!! And according to Catherine Ashton......Vincent to Tori....."he totally in not into" her! You know, you can dance around a story but DO NOT LIE to me!! Why should I continue to watch if they are going to FIB and play fast and loose with the love story. It is sickening. Fuming Beastie, they have been lying to fans since before this season began because they wanted us to watch and they kept encouraging fans by appeasing us. It's cheap and unacceptable and it's also a betrayal. I guess this is a game the producers/actors/other crew/cast members play to get fans to watch. They 'throw us a bone' from time to time to quiet us. It's disgusting actually. I just posted a few seconds ago that this has been a waste of a season.
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 20:58:46 GMT -5
Now, I haven't seen the epi yet, but I would like to put this out there. Think of it this way... we know that Vincat is end game, and they will be together. However, V and C don't know that. In their minds, they are done. They are doing things and saying things to try to convince themselves that what they had wasn't important, and to move on. They are both lost and confused and heartbroken, and doing all sorts of crazy things that they wouldn't normally do.Just my 2 cents. Wow, thanks for that. That was a really good '2 cents'! It's yet another way of looking at things, although really really hard to see hurt each other and seeing them with others is quite painful.
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 21:10:42 GMT -5
and that is my point, i feel we wont see any individual growth, especially now that the episodes are condensed with what i was saying i was questioning the theme of individual growth, i dont think there is any time to really achieve it so true... how can they find each other by jumping in any other's arms the first chance they have! isn't finding yourself a "self" discovery? shouldn't they stop and listen to their heart, their feelings, their wishes, their hopes... wth are they doing hating each other and trying to forget each other in someone else's arms??? I thought they were both smarter and more mature... obviously not... Yes, I thought so too. I expected so much more from Vincent and Catherine. The writers have cheapened this lack of a love story!
By the way, what you said about self-discovery is true. Brad Kern has really reduced these characters to nothing.
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 21:29:24 GMT -5
You can do all that but without degrading the characters..it's not that they can't try to move on..it's how they are trying to achieve that goal and the problem is this episode vincent had a complete uturn - where i saw him starting to take steps to improve in 209, in 210 and not even sure why it is 500 steps back. unless tori still has that influence on him! but anyway the point is for him to go back to being human and loveable and deserving well there is lots and lots and lots of self discovery that he needs to do and a lot of redeeming. we just finished episode 10 and we have only 4 episodes left before he can prove himself. i mean something major may happen and he may have an epiphany and suddenly realise what he ahs become - and that may be convincing and believable. but at the same time i dont want to have any memories of 210 vincent and now i will. Exactly! And that's why the writers went too far with this storyline. They have placed images in our heads that we can't 'unsee', so for me, Vincent CANNOT be redeemed. I could never feel the same way about him, not after all this and Catherine deserves so much better.
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 21:36:36 GMT -5
It has to be something major. There's no time for slow realization. Honestly, there's not even time for a good redemption. As long as it's not ep 12's outcome... well it may be, no?
It could be. If Tori does die, Vincent will no longer be under her spell or whatever effect she has on him and he'll be himself again. Catherine will forgive him because it wasn't HIS fault and all will be good in the world of beasties! NOT!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 21:39:48 GMT -5
Lack of integrity has been of epidemic proportions this season and it has infected so many aspects of the show; that's what causes me the most pain.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jan 22, 2014 21:45:34 GMT -5
well it may be, no?
It could be. If Tori does die, Vincent will no longer be under her spell or whatever effect she has on him and he'll be himself again. Catherine will forgive him because it wasn't HIS fault and all will be good in the world of beasties! NOT! This is my worst fear that the Writers will go this route.
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Post by Windflwr on Jan 22, 2014 22:25:37 GMT -5
I just wish there was some way to get through to TPTB about our concerns, but it's too late for that. I wish they had listened to the fans. We now have two different shows...
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 22, 2014 22:43:03 GMT -5
I just got off work and see there are 20 more pages than when I left. It would take me all night to read them all, so I apologize if I'm repeating what someone else has already said. I think I'm done with this show. They took the touching story of a man whose tragic circumstances were turned around by a strong woman who saw his worth and turned it into another Arrow or TVD. Yeah, we'll eventually get that steaming hot love scene, but without the tenderness of a man humbled by love and acceptance. THAT'S what made this show different from everything else on TV and changed us all, that made us watch those scenes over and over and over again.
The only reason I'd fight for a season 3 at this point was if I got assurances from TPTB that they realized their mistake and wanted to turn things back around. Sorry for the rant. I'll still write for the characters I came to love because they live on in my heart, which right now is absolutely broken.... Hello Windflwr, well said. I feel the SAME way. THat's why, for me, Vincent is unredeemable. Actually, it's hard for me to look at VinCat together now and to be quite honest, I don't really want to see them get together but we all know that they will in the end. I just don't understand how those in charge watched SEason 1 and couldn't see how unique VinCat's connection was and 'preserve' their love story instead of deciding to completely CRUSH and rip it to pieces. They rarely refer to anything that happened in SEason 1, so essentially, they want us to put SEason 1 behind us and accept that this is a NEW show. But Season 1 is what created our passion for the show and they took it for granted that we would support the changes but they took it too far.
More action is fine, more mythology is fine too, even VinCAt breaking up to find themselves is ok, but they crossed the line too many times and when is it going to end? NExt episode they're still hating each other and the episode after that is when Cat meets her cooking instructor.....There comes a time when enough is enough.
For me, I would fight for the show if they do over SEason 2, but how realistic is that? They've left me with too many unpleasant images.
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devin
Rookie Cop
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Post by devin on Jan 22, 2014 23:55:08 GMT -5
Beasties calm down!!! Put it in perspective! Cat gave up a year and half for her life Vincent and now he's being a total jerk! She doesn't HATE him, not even close. If she did, she still wouldn't be trying to help him. Catherine is bitter, hurt, angry, and dealing with a whole host of other stuff too. What would you do if you were in Cat's situation. I think she has earned a right to kiss however many guys she wants too. Btw Tori and Vincent are not going to happen. He's has no interest in her at all (is that not apparent?). Tori is just a catalyst to bring Vincat back together (although it may not seem like it right now).
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 23, 2014 2:32:59 GMT -5
It could be. If Tori does die, Vincent will no longer be under her spell or whatever effect she has on him and he'll be himself again. Catherine will forgive him because it wasn't HIS fault and all will be good in the world of beasties! NOT! This is my worst fear that the Writers will go this route. oh no i would not want that at all that would be really bad.... and so uncreative on the part of the writers
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