|
Post by gena7373 on Feb 10, 2013 1:14:46 GMT -5
Good post yolyco!!
|
|
|
Post by panda98 on Feb 10, 2013 1:55:32 GMT -5
Okay I admit I like this episode better then the last two...mainly cause there was a lot more Catherine/Vincent scenes...I know that in this board there are a lot of you that react from what they see basically as a first reaction which I've done myself in numerous times...BUT there might be more to the picture to as why Vincent reacted the way he did with Catherine... To have a relationship you have to have trust and honesty..I mean relationship that's start as friends then become more... Vincent saw Catherine as someone to protect...he's been protecting her for many years..I think this in part to the fact that even though his memory of Catherine's mother being his creator was eluding him he felt guilty that this woman was killed leaving behind a daughter which the beast protected...AS time went by Catherine was like an escape to him....the LIFE he couldn't have...He saw her birthday parties and knew her taste in MEN...Once he met her SHE gave him the little hope of light to be able to live a semi normal life now ..All this time as friends and her protector...Maybe Vincent didn't think she would want to go further with him in a relationship?...But either way what they had until Saturn Returns to me was just a great friendship...Things changed when he got jealous of Evan but why? Was it cause he was going to lose his best friend? Or did he begin to have stronger feelings for her? Vincent I think at the point of losing her in BRIDESMAID UP realized that Catherine meant more to him...Now does he love her? I think he does...He just doesn't realize it yet...You say how can a person not know that they are in LOVE? Well, for a person who has been alone for 10 years, lost everything, and hasn't known anyone else other then JT that is something far out in his mind. ..He doesn't understand the feelings he has and that in fact it isn't just her protection, her friend but that in fact he's in LOVE with her. As Catherine realized this in SEEING RED, I believe there come a point in TRUST NO ONE that will hit him with it... My point is..It sucks that he hurt her but he truly doesn't realize how much cause he doesn't really know her true feelings for him...He on the other hand is as blind as a bat for not seeing that he's been in love with her since he saved her in the woods TEN years ago. I agree that he probably hasn't really realized that he loves Catherine, like IN LOVE. He seems to still have the protector and friend mind. Like JT said in the trust no one sneak peak, he has to show that he will always be there for her, not has ready to beast out protector role that he has been for 10 years but the will ways be there for her heart and soul significant other, lover, boyfriend, whatever role that he has to be. Of course he has to gain her trust back. Like you said trust and honesty. I liked that in the first half of the season you see a bit of their relationship grow from people who are connected by Catherine's mother to having a friendship and partners in cases to the friendship started to grow deeper, feelings growing starting in Saturn Returns and Worth. To Bridesmaid up, you see their relationship starting to move forward, a bit. Seeing Red, he was scared he was about to lose her, knowing he could have prevented it from happening if he hadn't left. But of course, things happened the way they happened. While the last two episodes were Catherine's episodes to realized who exactly is Vincent to her and how does he really mean to her. I also think that the next episodes Vincent will sort out his feelings more about Catherine. I thought that too or somewhere along those lines. I didn't think it was an ultimatum of Vincent saying that Alex would do this, would you? It was more of him indirectly letting her know that he wants her to go with him. It is Catherine that he wants to go away with. Don't worry your not the only one who saw that. Yes exactly! ;D It sucks that Vincent hurt Catherine and what he did. But like Catherine, he needs to sort out his issues with himself and come to a realization. His DNA being altered and knowing what he can do and has done, it has changed his perception on himself. In those ten years that he has spent in hiding he had to be very cautious and trusting people is not easy. But most of all he lost trust in himself. I guess in a way he also lost self esteem because of the beast side of him. The more I think of what happened to Vincent and what he lost, it is sad. I may be looking or reading too much into it but it explains why he did what he did. It sucks and wrong especially since he hurt Catherine. I have said it before with Alex he saw a better future for him to be away, gone in a remote under the radar place to be the doctor he wanted to be and JT and Catherine won't have to lie and can have a life, to be free. He saw how the lies has taken a toll on JT and Catherine's lives and how it is a burden (or so he thought). I'm sure we can relate to that, not the exact situation of course but the whole not wanting to be a burden so we try to do something about it. The only thing is he should have really talked about it with JT and Catherine for their opinion. At least now he knows better. I don't know why but I love it when they bicker or fight. Haha. It just seems it shows more chemistry and good tension between them. How did I not realized the parallel in the woods. Haha. But yeah, that is interesting. Catherine when she first met him, she didn't know who he was. Total stranger to her but still accepted him, she knew he wouldn't hurt her. Alex, who has known him all her life and was even engaged to him supposedly love of her life, freaks out and abandons him.
|
|
|
Post by Lina on Feb 10, 2013 3:56:19 GMT -5
I kind of get where you guys are coming from, and I think in some aspects it makes sense, however, is it even fair to expect Catherine to take the "Alex is willing to go away with me, would you?" question the right way? I mean, c'mon! Yes, we know it was technically an ultimatum, which by definition means "either you do something about it, or I'll be gone", but let's face it... HOW could she NOT push him away at that point? She had just been shot at, she had seen Alex and Vincent kissing, and then he says "I am not sure I've made my decision yet" when she tells him she wants to be with him. HELLO??? What kind of guarantee does she have that the guy isn't going to mingle with someone else whenever he isn't sure?? Did he really expect her to leave her life behind for him at that point? REALLY?? I know I sure wouldn't! So she had no choice BUT to push him away! If he knew he loved her, he wouldn't be so selfish, and maybe he would tell it to her straight: "I want you to come with me". After all, she did tell him she accepted all of who he was, AND that she wanted to be with him. So no, I don't think it's fair to expect Catherine to simply assume he was indirectly asking her to go away with him, instead of Alex. With that said, I think it's fair to assume he doesn't yet know he loves her, like Yolie said. I'm cool with that, but to say that he doesn't know how much he hurt her... I think that's pushing it. She couldn't have been more clear about how she felt, with words, facial expressions, AND actions. I think he's just blinded by the fact that he wants to be a normal guy, so he turned selfish. Understandable, but not justifiable, and definitely not enough to justify him being careless when dealing with Cat's feelings, even if she was "just a friend" in his eyes -- a friend who, might I add, put her job on the line so many times to save his a*s.
|
|
|
Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 10, 2013 4:32:16 GMT -5
I kind of get where you guys are coming from, and I think in some aspects it makes sense, however, is it even fair to expect Catherine to take the "Alex is willing to go away with me, would you?" question the right way? I mean, c'mon! Yes, we know it was technically an ultimatum, which by definition means "either you do something about it, or I'll be gone", but let's face it... HOW could she NOT push him away at that point? She had just been shot at, she had seen Alex and Vincent kissing, and then he says "I am not sure I've made my decision yet" when she tells him she wants to be with him. HELLO??? What kind of guarantee does she have that the guy isn't going to mingle with someone else whenever he isn't sure?? Did he really expect her to leave her life behind for him at that point? REALLY?? I know I sure wouldn't! So she had no choice BUT to push him away! If he knew he loved her, he wouldn't be so selfish, and maybe he would tell it to her straight: "I want you to come with me". After all, she did tell him she accepted all of who he was, AND that she wanted to be with him. So no, I don't think it's fair to expect Catherine to simply assume he was indirectly asking her to go away with him, instead of Alex. With that said, I think it's fair to assume he doesn't yet know he loves her, like Yolie said. I'm cool with that, but to say that he doesn't know how much he hurt her... I think that's pushing it. She couldn't have been more clear about how she felt, with words, facial expressions, AND actions. I think he's just blinded by the fact that he wants to be a normal guy, so he turned selfish. Understandable, but not justifiable, and definitely not enough to justify him being careless when dealing with Cat's feelings, even if she was "just a friend" in his eyes -- a friend who, might I add, put her job on the line so many times to save his a*s. Lina, I get where you're coming from..I understand and I have said that I don't condone the fact that he broke her heart and didn't give a hoot about her and her feelings and HEALTH for that matter...But honestly I don't think he realizes how much he actually hurt her..He knew she was mad and he knew she wasn't going to like him going with Alex but then again at that moment he wasn't really thinking about ALEX either if you think about it..He too was playing her for ONLY what she offered him..to be able to have his old life back..NO MUIRFIELD, NO RUNNING, BEING A DOCTOR and BEING A NORMAL GUY..If you think about it he was playing with both ladies, not that I'm defending Alex LOL but if you look at selfishness meaning both ladies were victims of his SELFISHNESS. He lead Alex on while he put Catherine through hell by rejecting and neglecting HER and her feelings. What I tried to say was that he has NO clue as to Catherine's true feelings for him, I don't know if him knowing would have changed his attitude and the way he acted...the writers didn't write it that way..That's why it's called DRAMA Yolie
|
|
|
Post by evanarose on Feb 10, 2013 5:10:35 GMT -5
^I think that's true when you think about it. I mean stinging both girls along..
I think he did have an idea of Cats feelings for him before that though..maybe not to the intensity that she spilled in ep 11, but definitely starting in Bridesmaid Up when he read her dating application...
But it seems the mutating DNA news, partly triggered this side. Something tells me, even if Alex wasn't in the picture; he would've still shown that a* side. He probably would've been in denial arguing with Cat about reminding him of the beast anyway...he probably would have found another way to escape reality and think for himself (unfortunately hurting Cat in the process.). As Cat mentioned its his issue.
I guess you can also blame his behavior for the fact he hasn't communicated with anyone else other than JT for 10 years....and it's been ''all about protecting him'' all those years, so sad as it sounds he's probably partly lost his way to broaden his mind and think outside the square if that makes sense lol..
|
|
|
Post by Lina on Feb 10, 2013 5:17:28 GMT -5
Lol so true, he did play with Alex too! Goodness, let's all rebel against Vincent now! Cat and Alex should unite forces and put him through hell! Haha :-P
I still think he should know exactly how Cat feels for him, because she said it at the hospital and later on, when he ditched her. She might not have said she loves him, but she said everything else. But then again, I guess with the whole I-can-be-normal-again euphoria, he wasn't paying attention... Oh Vincent!
Always good overanalyzing with you, Yolie! :-)
|
|
|
Post by Lina on Feb 10, 2013 5:25:15 GMT -5
^I think that's true when you think about it. I mean stinging both girls along.. I think he did have an idea of Cats feelings for him before that though..maybe not to the intensity that she spilled in ep 11, but definitely starting in Bridesmaid Up when he read her dating application... But it seems the mutating DNA news, partly triggered this side. Something tells me, even if Alex wasn't in the picture; he would've still shown that a* side. He probably would've been in denial arguing with Cat about reminding him of the beast anyway...he probably would have found another way to escape reality and think for himself (unfortunately hurting Cat in the process.). As Cat mentioned its his issue. I guess you can also blame his behavior for the fact he hasn't communicated with anyone else other than JT for 10 years....and it's been ''all about protecting him'' all those years, so sad as it sounds he's probably partly lost his way to broaden his mind and think outside the square if that makes sense lol.. Good point about the dating application, evanarose! Some can argue that she sent him away after, though... When she found out his DNA was mutating... But she did fix it at the hospital. I really like your theory about him having the idea that the world should revolve around him and his problem. Maybe he's just so used to always trying to find a solution to his life condition, that he forgot he now has someone else to care about.
|
|
|
Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 10, 2013 5:29:32 GMT -5
Lol so true, he did play with Alex too! Goodness, let's all rebel against Vincent now! Cat and Alex should unite forces and put him through hell! Haha :-P Yeah hell of trouble he'd be in for sure!!! I still think he should know exactly how Cat feels for him, because she said it at the hospital and later on, when he ditched her. She might not have said she loves him, but she said everything else. But then again, I guess with the whole I-can-be-normal-again euphoria, he wasn't paying attention... Oh Vincent! Sorry but it's typical of men to NOT get what you are saying unless you S-P-E-L-L it out to them cause to be HONEST men suck at romance and knowing what woman want ;-)...I guess he was too into LA LA LAND to even muster what she was trying to tell him but then again I said she should have slapped him silly Always good overanalyzing with you, Yolie! :-) Same here! :-)
|
|
|
Post by hcastro on Feb 10, 2013 6:05:19 GMT -5
Yep, SuzieQ...I noticed that too. I don't know if it's an insecurity thing, but Vincent did the same thing in "Seeing Red" remember? Instead of apologizing for LYING about who Alex was to him or even mentioning her at all until Catherine brought her up, he tried to brush that aside and start putting some blame on her for the reasons they couldn't move forward. I don't like that he turns stuff on her either. Him bringing up what happened at the wedding came out of nowhere to me...obviously, he apologized for it later but it still bugged me at the time it happened. He seems to have issues with accepting who he is...maybe he needs to focus on that instead of using that as an opportunity to turn things around on Catherine. He seemed to realize that when he apologized, so hopefully we don't see that side of him anymore. Agreed. I really hate that the writers allowed Catherine to appear to be Vincent's second choice. The guy was still saying to Alex he wanted to go away with her even after she saw his beast!!! Like I said, it wasn't until she rejected him that he said this was all a fantasy..WTH!? Other than the fact that they didn't let Vincent choose Catherine before Alex freaked out, I was disappointed that Vincent was really planning on leaving town with Alex IF she accepted him. And he even told Catherine he would've done it albeit not happily...that is not acceptable to me and in no way does that scream "epic love" to me either. So...Vincent was willing to go live a lie with Alex so he can have his freedom even though in his heart he claims he loves Catherine...but decides to leave anyway...um, okay. That's freakin selfish, wow! That tells me that Vincent doesn't really know what he feels for Catherine. I don't even know myself if he really loves Catherine..I think he cares a lot about her..but love? Don't know about that, he wouldn't have acted the way he did or treated her the way he has if he loved her. Seriously...look at this list! This all happened in a span of 3 episodes...look at all that heartbreak for Catherine. Not to mention, how many times did she come to save his ass during these 3 episodes? She again took many risks to save him even though he was being acting like a jerk to her. I don't think for one second it should just be that easy for Vincent to get back into Catherine's good graces, his ass needs to stay in the doghouse for a while. And I agree, no amount of roses or chocolates will do...I need to see him working hard to win her back. They tease that kiss..but I hope it gets interrupted or it's a big fakeout...(Sorry VinCat shippers! ) I don't think Vincent is deserving of a kiss. As much as I want to see one too, I don't think it makes any sense to have one so soon after this mess. And Catherine has been very strong so far, it would undermine what she did by standing her ground and not giving in to Vincent so easily if it happened. But we shall see... SuzieQ, you mentioned that declaration of LOVE that I wanted to see from Vincent. Obviously it didn't happen which I'm upset about. We still have one more episode with the Ex...there is another opportunity here. What I would like to see is Alex changing her mind and deciding she will accept Vincent..beast and all. But this time...Vincent says no...because he wants to be with Catherine and that he LOVES her. We still need to see Vincent explain to Alex what Catherine really means to Vincent and if he says that Catherine is a part of his "better future"...Well, let's hear it, Vincent! I want to hear exactly what you feel about Catherine and I need to see you tell that to Alex. I wouldn't mind Catherine hearing that convo either...that would go a long way for me in redeeming Vincent. Again, they have one more episode to at least make this "second choice" BS right. Leaving Catherine looking like sloppy seconds after this arc ends tarnishes VinCat for me. I'm already not feeling it like I was before this arc started. Like you said, the "magic" and specialness of VinCat looks to have disappeared and I feel let down. But...they could make it right like I said. That could have been the plan for the writers all along...and I really hope that is the case.
|
|
|
Post by evanarose on Feb 10, 2013 7:06:41 GMT -5
^I think that's true when you think about it. I mean stinging both girls along.. I think he did have an idea of Cats feelings for him before that though..maybe not to the intensity that she spilled in ep 11, but definitely starting in Bridesmaid Up when he read her dating application... But it seems the mutating DNA news, partly triggered this side. Something tells me, even if Alex wasn't in the picture; he would've still shown that a* side. He probably would've been in denial arguing with Cat about reminding him of the beast anyway...he probably would have found another way to escape reality and think for himself (unfortunately hurting Cat in the process.). As Cat mentioned its his issue. I guess you can also blame his behavior for the fact he hasn't communicated with anyone else other than JT for 10 years....and it's been ''all about protecting him'' all those years, so sad as it sounds he's probably partly lost his way to broaden his mind and think outside the square if that makes sense lol.. Good point about the dating application, evanarose! Some can argue that she sent him away after, though... When she found out his DNA was mutating... But she did fix it at the hospital. I really like your theory about him having the idea that the world should revolve around him and his problem. Maybe he's just so used to always trying to find a solution to his life condition, that he forgot he now has someone else to care about. So, I'm going to try to get all Dr.Phil and get into Vincents head! 1. I don't think it's so much about Vincent not knowing about Cats feelings ...I really think it's the fact that because he has trouble accepting his 'beast', he really can't get his head around the fact that anybody can. Cat can say, she does and always will but because he doesn't like that part of himself he doesn't see why she would. So even though it's a half a joke when he says 'see when I get whiskers and a tail.' at the hospital- he actually is really serious. He is terrified at the future, he doesn't know what's going to happen to himself. He doesn't know how to accept it, so how can cat? I think he is slowly just letting himself accept cat does accept his beast at present. 2. I think subconsciously he was trying to push Cat away (with this story arc.). Since he has trouble accepting Cat would still embrace the beast in the future, I think part of his mind was thinking if I live this fantasy now...maybe I would save myself the heartache of Cat not accepting the beast in the future. Kind of a convenient complicated issue...as he says at the end of one ep. 3. Actually now that I think of it, I think that conversation with Cat when he's talking about her previous history with guys was sub consciously pushing cat away Especially when calling himself 'The ultimate bad boy' He knows deep down, the Cat is the right one and it terrifies him, if they pursue this relationship- what the beast can do to them...I think like cat says, he actually also doesn't remember how to be close to somebody.. I think he is torn, he wants to let her in, but is he's struggle for acceptance of the beast stronger than his love for her? As the season progresses, I think the love will dominate.. 4. I think he is slowly going through the journey of realizing Cat is key to controlling the beast. It seems the writers are going in that direction i.e: with the blackouts, with JT going psycho but when Cat comes he calms down. I'm not sure if the writers are making it that Vincent doesn't realise that yet? But I guess he is too focused on thinking about bad things about the beast...to see that..and that it would in fact help the beast, if Cat was in his future.
|
|
|
Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 10, 2013 7:29:00 GMT -5
Good point about the dating application, evanarose! Some can argue that she sent him away after, though... When she found out his DNA was mutating... But she did fix it at the hospital. I really like your theory about him having the idea that the world should revolve around him and his problem. Maybe he's just so used to always trying to find a solution to his life condition, that he forgot he now has someone else to care about. So, I'm going to try to get all Dr.Phil and get into Vincents head! 1. I don't think it's so much about Vincent not knowing about Cats feelings ...I really think it's the fact that because he has trouble accepting his 'beast', he really can't get his head around the fact that anybody can. Cat can say, she does and always will but because he doesn't like that part of himself he doesn't see why she would. So even though it's a half a joke when he says 'see when I get whiskers and a tail.' at the hospital- he actually is really serious. He is terrified at the future, he doesn't know what's going to happen to himself. He doesn't know how to accept it, so how can cat? I think he is slowly just letting himself accept cat does accept his beast at present. 2. I think subconsciously he was trying to push Cat away (with this story arc.). Since he has trouble accepting Cat would still embrace the beast in the future, I think part of his mind was thinking if I live this fantasy now...maybe I would save myself the heartache of Cat not accepting the beast in the future. Kind of a convenient complicated issue...as he says at the end of one ep. 3. Actually now that I think of it, I think that conversation with Cat when he's talking about her previous history with guys was sub consciously pushing cat away Especially when calling himself 'The ultimate bad boy' He knows deep down, the Cat is the right one and it terrifies him, if they pursue this relationship- what the beast can do to them...I think like cat says, he actually also doesn't remember how to be close to somebody.. I think he is torn, he wants to let her in, but is he's struggle for acceptance of the beast stronger than his love for her? As the season progresses, I think the love will dominate.. 4. I think he is slowly going through the journey of realizing Cat is key to controlling the beast. It seems the writers are going in that direction i.e: with the blackouts, with JT going psycho but when Cat comes he calms down. I'm not sure if the writers are making it that Vincent doesn't realise that yet? But I guess he is too focused on thinking about bad things about the beast...to see that..and that it would in fact help the beast, if Cat was in his future. evanarose, Just WOW!! This is exactly what I'm saying..there are many factors as to why Vincent's sudden behavior, I personally think he freaked out more when Catherine told him in the hospital that " She accepted all that he was" this put him on a doubt roller-coaster ride with not only dealing with Catherine's acceptance but also dealing with his EX entering the picture... It's a much juicier storyline having an EX come in then feeling the scared and cold feet storyline alone...Remember it's also February sweeps, that doesn't do much for CW shows but it gives TPTB a hint as to what shows people want to watch by making the story-lines more dramatic then usual. Maybe you should consider a job change?? A shrink maybe?? ;D
|
|
|
Post by DayaBEASTS4 on Feb 10, 2013 19:07:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by oa on Feb 10, 2013 19:50:09 GMT -5
i think that the beast was the one that fell in love with cat cause vincent is the one hurting her but the beast keeps protecting her... and i really hope that in some point we get to learn why he was there in the woods nine years ago too @dayabeast
|
|
elle
Rookie Cop
Posts: 72
|
Post by elle on Feb 10, 2013 21:14:30 GMT -5
I think Catherine really proved to Vincent that she doesn't think of him as a beast when she was talking Alex in to giving her the gun in the woods. She was under pressure yet she still was clear with Alex that it was still just Vincent, the same guy she knows and trusts. I thought that was an amazing thing for Catherine to say to someone who is essentially her rival for Vincent's affection. I was glad Vincent could hear that from her. Now it's Vincent's turn to explain himself....
|
|
|
Post by VinCat❤Destined on Feb 10, 2013 21:38:48 GMT -5
I loved the way she said that elle, the "he's the same guy" really showed how much she truly knows Vincent...Believe it or not even better then Vincent knows himself...I loved the way Catherine touched his arm before she left them alone..like a pat of encouragement...that too showed how deeply she feels for him and how she was letting him know she was there for him (which at this point he didn't deserve BTW) I think Vincent has lost what it is to be in love with oneself..If you can't love and accept who you are how can anyone else?
I think this is what Vincent is going to get from Catherine..that this woman sees him and not a hideous beast or a DNA experiment but as a PERSON..someone with flaws...which we know we all have...All we need is for her to PUNCH him a few times like she did in the woods...That might make her feel better!! No wait that will make me feel better ;D
|
|