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Post by Vincent Keller on Feb 8, 2013 16:56:32 GMT -5
hahahahaha the best ever "Vincent, if you call Catherine your handler again, I'm calling Muirfield myself." it would be a line for JT.. LOL ^ Hee hee! Great post, hcastro! And too long? Never!! Vincent x Catherine 'Cold Turkey' scene 3: fire escape (end)*Vincent knocks on Catherine's bedroom window. She opens the window* VINCENT: Hey. CATHERINE: I'm actually just heading out. VINCENT: Oh, this won't be long. Um, I just...I need to say thank you. CATHERINE: For what? For this? *hands him a bag* Your photos and letters from Alex's apartment. *Vincent takes the bag and looks into it.* CATHERINE: You know, I keep trying to move on, but it's kind of difficult with you. VINCENT: I don't want you to. *puts stuff back in bag, sets it aside* Catherine, the things that I said about the way that you see me, it was wrong, okay? It's my issue. I just...sometimes I wish so badly I wasn't what I am. Catherine, I know that I can't be with someone who doesn't know everything about me. CATHERINE: She does now. VINCENT: Okay, who doesn't accept everything about me. CATHERINE: Vincent, I can't be your second choice. VINCENT: You're not. CATHERINE: Really? Because if Alex had accepted you, you...you'd be with her right now in that ridiculously romantic cabin. VINCENT: Not happily. It was never about taking off with Alex. It was about a better future for me. Okay, but I know now that that better future isn't her, Catherine, it's you. I will do whatever it takes to make this right. CATHERINE: Vincent, there's nothing you can do. Obviously now that Muirfield's back and Alex knows, I will help, but... VINCENT: But you and me... CATHERINE: I need to protect myself right now. HEATHER: *calls from another room* Cat, come on. CATHERINE: And I need to be there for someone who's always there for me. VINCENT: Of course. Hey...I'm not going anywhere, okay?
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Post by DayaBEASTS4 on Feb 8, 2013 18:13:44 GMT -5
PERHAPS!! I dont usderstand the way the writers write.. VINCE "Alex dont want mee and now its Cat my future!..(and well answer dear CAT ===: Because if Alex had accepted you, you...you'd be with her right now in that ridiculously romantic cabin. And that´s true) When other people explain the part of vince being selfish.... in their point of view, they tell "everything is about Vince being a Doctor again"
Seriously is not make it a novel, the only thing that I see is Vince was using Alex to make his dream come true, but the romance part, how was his handler it w/her, he was not being honest with alex at all. And all that was said and done nine chapters ago about his feeling for Cat... fell in these two chapters and very abruptly.. I dont know how the writers will make a strong, independent mature woman trust in a person who dropped it for a fantasy... I'm telling cause its supposedly doing the serie based on today and women are no longer holding... So I like it the epi anyway. I like see cat Kicking ass and doing team w/ Vince against bad people.. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by catkeller on Feb 8, 2013 18:24:23 GMT -5
I liked the pace and story of the episode, so glad there was no stupid crime of the week! But the way the writers handled V's choosing Alex (and not having him realize his error and choose Cat before A knew the truth) has ruined the so called epic love for me. Was it really so epic if he was willing to run off with Alex? The writers made a terrible mistake by making Cat his second choice and even if he makes it up to her and proves he loves her, it has been soiled. By C's words from another episode, she will never be able to forget that, forgive, yes, but forget -no. I am not sure she can ever fully trust him again after this. I know I could not and with C's issues, how can she. She wants to, but doubt she will.
I will watch the next couple episodes to see if the writers can somehow recover after this epic mistake, but honestly not sure I can continue watching this show as the epic love was the draw and that is now dead. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by vincentfan on Feb 8, 2013 18:57:24 GMT -5
I want the boots Catherine was wearing
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Post by DayaBEASTS4 on Feb 8, 2013 19:10:11 GMT -5
and I want all her shirts and coats!!! ;D ;D
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Post by vincentfan on Feb 8, 2013 19:26:53 GMT -5
and I want all her shirts and coats!!! ;D ;D Mmmhmmm! Word! ;D
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Post by oa on Feb 8, 2013 19:27:13 GMT -5
i love cats clothes! the fashion department is all out!
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asalb
Army Recruit
Posts: 114
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Post by asalb on Feb 8, 2013 23:10:04 GMT -5
I liked the pace and story of the episode, so glad there was no stupid crime of the week! But the way the writers handled V's choosing Alex (and not having him realize his error and choose Cat before A knew the truth) has ruined the so called epic love for me. Was it really so epic if he was willing to run off with Alex? The writers made a terrible mistake by making Cat his second choice and even if he makes it up to her and proves he loves her, it has been soiled. By C's words from another episode, she will never be able to forget that, forgive, yes, but forget -no. I am not sure she can ever fully trust him again after this. I know I could not and with C's issues, how can she. She wants to, but doubt she will. I will watch the next couple episodes to see if the writers can somehow recover after this epic mistake, but honestly not sure I can continue watching this show as the epic love was the draw and that is now dead. I hope I am wrong. Wow! I so totally agree with you. I can't say how much I really hated Seeing Red and On Thin Ice. I almost bought an iTunes season pass a few weeks ago, but decided not to b/c I will NEVER EVER watch those two eps again. Last week I was just plain disappointed, and really detatched about the show b/c it was the love story that I really, really liked. And Vincent WAS such a troubled, but likeable, hero. Not anymore.... This weeks ep was better because the healing (in term of VinCat) has begun, but you're so right - that epic love, that magic, is gone for me. If it was soooooo epic, Vincent COULDN'T have treated Cat the way he did. And now to make her 2nd choice? Even in the sneak peek, he just doesn;t seem as upset as he should that the love of his life keeps giving him the cold shoulder. He should be friggin' desperate to win her back! Not just "I'll just have to win back her trust". Really? Really really? No $hit Sherlock. I just don't know how the story will recover. Ratings fell this week too - so I guess that's folks not watching b/c they just don't like this Alex arc AND I'd be willing to bet they just don't like or believe the new Vincent. Gah - we'll see what the next few weeks will bring... Looks good, but there will need to be some HUGE grovelling to be believable if he wins her back so easily..
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Fire And Ice
Detective
Judging TPTB @ BATB Since 2012
Posts: 491
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Post by Fire And Ice on Feb 8, 2013 23:10:52 GMT -5
I liked the pace and story of the episode, so glad there was no stupid crime of the week! But the way the writers handled V's choosing Alex (and not having him realize his error and choose Cat before A knew the truth) has ruined the so called epic love for me. Was it really so epic if he was willing to run off with Alex? The writers made a terrible mistake by making Cat his second choice and even if he makes it up to her and proves he loves her, it has been soiled. By C's words from another episode, she will never be able to forget that, forgive, yes, but forget -no. I am not sure she can ever fully trust him again after this. I know I could not and with C's issues, how can she. She wants to, but doubt she will. I will watch the next couple episodes to see if the writers can somehow recover after this epic mistake, but honestly not sure I can continue watching this show as the epic love was the draw and that is now dead. I hope I am wrong. Unfortunately, this is where I am right now too. I was sorely disappointed that the writers - in another move to delay the kiss - decided that they'd make Cat second choice. WTH? This is Beauty & the Beast. No one wants to see the Beauty being tossed aside for another woman. My mom saw the episode today. I didn't get to watch it with her, so I asked what she thought. She said that in the cabin (and going to the cabin) that it was blatantly obvious to her that Vincent didn't want to be with Alex. She said you could see from his eyes that Vincent wasn't feeling a connection Alex & didn't really want to go away with her. (My mom thought he decided to go because Cat was mean to him on the run.) Do I think Vincent knew? Yeah, BUT Vincent didn't tell Cat he chose her before she saw him get rejected by Alex, so as far as I'm concerned, the eyes don't matter. IF the writers had kept Vincent true to character these past few episodes, maybe that would've worked. But he was a huge jerk so I wanted to hear him say "I choose you, not her" when Alex was still an option. BTW, did anyone else notice how she totally dropped Nigeria and then was all "Oh we could go to Mexico." The girl was a total liar. She didn't want to be on the run. She wanted to settle down with this fantasy of who Vincent was. Also she seemed a little shady about Vincent being suspicious of the guy coming to the door...and Cat showing up...I still don't think she's an innocent psycho. Either way I don't like the Alex character at all. This is no slam to the actress portraying her. I just think the writers didn't write a compelling character. I mean I don't want Cat with Evan, BUT at least he's enough of a well written character that I'm not like "Please leave." For example, I was a huge fan of Roswell. I loved Max & Liz. I didn't like Tess, but I enjoyed her on the show because I thought the triangle was well-written. This wasn't. That's just my opinion. You guys are free to feel otherwise, but I thought this wasn't properly done and unfortunately it lost the show Nielson viewers, who I hope will return and weren't too put off by all this unnecessary triangle nonsense. What did I like about this episode? MUIRFIELD!! Oh man. When the guy came to the cabin and Vincent picked up that he was a decoy/spy-for-hire that Muirfield hired... oh! So good! The fighting! Yay!! Finally!!! I am all about the action sequences on this show. I hate the emo-ness of late. So happy to have at least the action back, since the writers have totally botched the VinCat romance. Plus I think Cat & Vincent make a great Muirfield fighting team. But the writers couldn't allow my happiness to stay for long. They had to bring back Alex, who should've just stayed in the cabin instead of getting dressed to trapse around in the woods until she found Vincent. (PSYCHO!) When Alex was randomly in the woods, I was like "Ughhh...is she still here?"And who didn't see Cat giving her a gun as a bad sign? But the writers had to remind us that they had a crummy sidestory to delay a kiss and the main couple getting together. AND I just want to point out that we learned absolutely nothing about Vincent during this arc like we were told we would other than (a) he used to have crappy taste in women & (b) he enjoyed being a doctor. That's it. Really? We already knew B!!!! So pretty much we just get that he liked a whiney psycho. OH! And If I hear Vincent say "my brothers" one more time, I'm going to scream. That should be the new drinking game. Everytime Vincent or someone else on the show reminds us that Vincent's brothers are dead...AND don't use the brothers' names. I have 2 brothers - Chris & Nick. Do I sometime refer to them as just my brothers? Sure because sometimes it's easier than going Chris, my older brother, or Nick, my younger brother. But does Alex need to hear "my brothers?" She knew his brothers. Just use their frickin' names, Vincent!!! Argh!!! What else made me happy about this episode? Well, I was super glad that Cat didn't just accept him back so easily. Vincent's turned into a real jerk. I hope they don't kiss on Valentine's Day and that was a psych out (sorta like what Evan did to Cat in that one episode). Yeah. I'm serious. I actually don't want a kiss between VinCat...maybe I'm not even a VinCat shipper anymore. I really haven't decided because it worries me a little. If I don't ship Cat (Beauty) & Vincent (the Beast), what's the point of watching Beauty & the Beast? So until I figure out how I feel about VinCat and their "epic" love, I will now watch this show just for JT & Evan. JTEvan? I don't know how to combine their names. I will go with Jtevan. Oh and I thought Tess and Heather were good this past episode too, though I've sorta always liked Heather anyway.... but, nope. It's JTEvan, that's why I watch this show now. They are my current OTP. haha. j/k. Though they (JT & Evan) have been the best part of the show lately. --- Want to add that crazy Alex who may or may not be working for Muirfield or about to help Muirfield (spoilers seem to suggest some Muirfield connection) -- well, I want to see her try to tell Vincent they can overcome his beastliness, maybe even cure him and then I want him to spit in her face and say that he realized that he has no feelings for her anymore and that he loves & chooses Cat. Cat needs to overhear all that. (Spit in the face is an expression. Vincent doesn't literally have to spit. I just want jerky Vince to take it out on Alex for once. Please don't think I'm condoning guys spitting in girls faces. I just want to make it clear that Vincent needs to be firm with Alex and I don't want to see a "I'm sorry I can't be with you" speech.)
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 8, 2013 23:16:19 GMT -5
First off, Thanks Katie for that fantastic recap. I went to Tumblr and tried to follow all the comments. When you aren't able to see the episode and then you read the comments, it is kind of fun to imagine what is going on. Some of the comments are too funny! During the final scene, I love your comment: "BS-O-Meter"...Vincent did a lot of that in the last episode. And thanks also Katie, for all the scene dialogue....I love to read and then watch the scene again. I really hesitated to make any comments right away after I first saw the episode late last night. So I rewatched and I still couldn't quite get myself to comment. Here's my dilemma. After the watching the first two episode with Alex.....I was really disliking Vincent. And I promised myself I would give Vincent the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to look at the whole Alex situation from his perspective. Then I watched this episode. Frankly, I struggled to find some sympathy for Vincent. I have mixed emotions on this episode. I LOVED the bickering between VinCat...they are just too cute when they argue and fight. The "jogging scene" had some good and not-so-good moments for me. Loved Catherine's "so you can sense that I'm mad"...that made me LOL. And good for her blowing him off a bit. Although I really liked to see that Vincent came to her because he VALUES her opinion, did he really think that talking to Catherine about his "romantic getaway" was going to be okay?? Seriously?? He was being inconsiderate...AGAIN..of her feelings. Again, hcastro you nailed it. The whole jogging scene was utter malarkey .........it was the most insensitive conversation, and again he dumped on Cat about the whole "beast thing". How did he really expect Catherine to respond to him after she told him her concerns about him "transforming". He turns it back on her to make her feel bad............It is Classic Passive-Aggressive behavior. And then the whole Cabin scenario. As a VinCat fan it was painful.. ......Alex was working it......wine, food, candles, fire, Lingerie.....almost kiss. Thank goodness for the interruption. Then in the woods, ....when VinCat have their scene behind the tree. He makes it clear that he doesn't like when she reminds him of his Beastly side. It was surprising to hear his version of the wedding scene where she told him of his DNA mutating.... that Cat told him to leave? What? Again, he turns stuff on her. I just don't like it. I did love how they banter back and forth, Cat gives it back to him, but she doesn't do it in crushing way. When he called their times together as "interactions" ........I thought I would pistol-whipped him right then and there. Yes, the best aspect of the scene! Then the final Catherine Bedroom Window scene: I loved Cat's dialogue here. She laid it out to Vincent. Her pain was still very palpable. She was trying so hard to be strong and not sound too bitter. THIS!! I STILL do not quite understand this.......Does he mean that the "fantasy" of having a future....being a Dr., helping people, being away from Muirfield, etc. ...was more the fantasy than being with Alex? And.....that it wasn't about being "happy" with her?? This is where the words do not match his actions. hcastro you made a post before this episode (sorry I couldn't find it)....and you said the only way Vincent could redeem himself was if he would (in this episode) tell Alex that he loves Catherine. Well, it was worse.......because the writer's did make it seem that if Alex had accepted him he would be with her in that "ridiculously romantic cabin". To me........this was a major fail by the writer's to me. This ship and it's "magic" really took a hit for me. So much so, a kiss between them right now is nothing more than a plot device. There is nothing Vincent can do in the next episode that will make me want Cat anywhere near him romantically. All the real or origami flowers in the world would not make a difference! The writer's have a huge task to put Vincent back in Cat's good graces or mine. What I loved about the episode.....Tess, Heather, Cat scenes!! These girls are just showstoppers. J.T. and Evan.........poor Evan and his past Medical tragedy. I wonder if they will continue working together in the future? What is with all the Tess and Joe(?) stuff off camera? We want to see!! Last but not least.........I want Alex to go. I don't care how or why, just go.......you have overstayed your welcome. (what little there was!) ETA: Jacki...so many points of agreement!! I REALLY want to look forward to next week's episode. I want that whole BaTB romantic "fantasy"..........but, instead, I want to see the other characters.......Bring me some Tess and Joe!!
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Post by Vincent Keller on Feb 8, 2013 23:30:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with you ladies. Vincent was so insensitive. I sympathize with him and I know he wanted to dream of a life--not a new one, but his old one--who he used to be. But that doesn't excuse, to me, the way he treated Catherine's feelings. Everything he thought was about himself and his life. It was almost like he was using Alex as an anchor to that guy he used to be, and an escape route.
Keep in mind, he's in danger and hunted so he could have and probably should have left New York at any time, so why didn't he? B/c it's his home and b/c Catherine is there and he's been watching over her. B/c JT is his only friend and helping him with a cure. He chose to stay. He could have fled the country years ago.
Then to say, would you give up everything and run away with me, Catherine? B/C Alex would. I'm like WHAT, how is this suddenly Cat's fault or problem?!
As she said it's HIS problem. Or issue. Whatever wording it was.
Notice how upset he was that he thought Catherine might think the beast is "who he is", that she keeps bringing it up. And he said at the window that he sometimes wishes so badly he wasn't who he was.
This whole thing was a huge "head in the sand moment" where Vincent freaked b/c Catherine is the one who can paint an HONEST picture of himself! It's just like that broken mirror in the warehouse and in the BATB animated film. Vincent's problem is with himself - he can't accept himself, yet Cat can! He's freaked out over these changes and mutations and his running meant that he couldn't take it and accept it.
So explain to me how it was fair for Cat to get crapped all over in the process while Vincent figures out his issues.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 8, 2013 23:50:53 GMT -5
Notice how upset he was that he thought Catherine might think the beast is "who he is", that she keeps bringing it up. And he said at the window that he sometimes wishes so badly he wasn't who he was. This whole thing was a huge "head in the sand moment" where Vincent freaked b/c Catherine is the one who can paint an HONEST picture of himself! It's just like that broken mirror in the warehouse and in the BATB animated film. Vincent's problem is with himself - he can't accept himself, yet Cat can! He's freaked out over these changes and mutations and his running meant that he couldn't take it and accept it. So explain to me how it was fair for Cat to get crapped all over in the process while Vincent figures out his issues. You brought up a great point.....since Vincent brought up the Wedding conversation about the mutations. Maybe, deep down, it was freaking him out and when Alex came into the situation he found that situation to regain his old life again. He hasn't really accepted himself. He does not feel worthy. Alex made him forget, and he struggled to face this with her. I am trying to see his perspective in a very real way. Yet, the way he treated Catherine, was just so hurtful. We all saw so much hurt with Cat. 1. When she found the letters and found out Vincent and Alex were engaged. 2. When she saw Vincent and Alex kiss. 3. When she talked with Vincent on the balcony and asked him if he still loved Alex and he looked away. 4. When she found out that Vincent and Alex were on a date and he was almost arrested. 5. When Cat pours her heart out to Vincent and he doesn't reciprocate and tells her that Alex will go away with him. 6. When Cat hears that Alex and Vincent were planning to go away for a romantic weekend. 7. When Cat finds the lingerie bag on the bed. 8. The finale scene and the conversation with Vincent. Catherine face shows so much hurt. Frankly,.........seeing Cat's eyes show so much pain and hurt,....well it is just too much! Seriously......how much more is Cat suppose to take?
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Post by Vincent Keller on Feb 9, 2013 0:21:15 GMT -5
^ I totally agree with the hurt list! And about how Vincent isn't able to accept himself and doesn't feel worthy. And then Alex was there, I mean sorry, but she was just simply throwing herself at him, full out.
Yet, what is Cat, chopped liver, when she said she accepts all of him? That she wants to be with him?
Here's my problem. Even set aside the shipper stuff....just think of Cat and Vincent as two people who care about each other. I'm still not over the hospital rescue - Alex's first ep. Vincent didn't seem to notice or care that Cat got shot at (after just getting shot!) and fell down, badly hurt. He left her lying there. I know there was danger and Alex and beast and blah blah, but this WHOLE Vincent personality detour is so unlike him!
I can understand needing to sort things out with Alex. I was never mad that he needed to sort that out! But one reason people fell in love with this show was that Vincent was an absolute sweetheart and that he would never hurt Catherine and he was always so sensitive to her!
So, I wasn't able to grasp how he's leaving her laying there hurt, putting her at risk, thinking selfishly, basically rejecting her and trying to get her blessing as he goes away with Alex. What is he waiting for--Catherine to break down sobbing in front of him? Would that make the hint a little more clear for him?
I just don't get him. He was SO sweet and so sensitive with Cat and then all the sudden, after winter break, he was like the most typical guy of all typical guys. Just clueless! Sorry, that comment is sexist. I just mean in the sense that sometimes, SOME guys just don't GET it.
I guess he started to realize some of this and that's why he said he was an ass and why he said he will do whatever it takes to fix this.
Call me crazy but I don't want flowers and kisses. I want him to figure his crap out and explain to her how it was his crap and that she got caught in the crossfire, and now he's going to prove to her what she means to his life. Forget this--you're the right one for my future crap---it's way too early for that!
This set them way back! If they were at level zero when they met up in the pilot, then now they're at like -100.
I hope this made any sense. I was willing to give Vincent every chance, truly, but he has been 1000% selfish and self-centered.
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Post by evanarose on Feb 9, 2013 0:50:03 GMT -5
I know we have alot of frustration for Vincent! At least he did admit he was an a and s and s! And JT said 'Can't say you're wrong there!' Now I'm wondering whether how much Vincent grovels in the next episode is going to be enough.. -Flowers are sweet but not enough! He can't buy his way in and yes it makes sense to send them since it's Valentines Day, but the writers better have more up their sleeves. -To me a romantic dinner isn't enough either.. -And having a scene where Vincent saves her life shouldn't cut it either. I mean you definately appreciate it but doesn't solve the problem he was an a and s and s! -As for the almost kiss, I hope Vincent has grovelled enough by then! Not just go something like: Cat: "How can you prove to me that you won't hurt me again?" Vincent leans in for a kiss... I hope the writers go more in depth with their dialogue than that! Vincent needs to pull out all stops! Like:- -Write an original song made for Cat, sing from his heart about what an a and s and s he's been! I'm suggesting that because I want Jay to sing -He needs to take JTs advice because apparently looking up online cuts it for what women want Vincents reaction is priceless there... Mind you, he couldn't been a little more excited, Vincent is like 'AND WHAT DOES WHOOING HER MEAN!?!' Vincent really!?! What else you guys think Vincent needs to do and say?
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Post by unkayz on Feb 9, 2013 0:56:21 GMT -5
they clearly have to fix Vincent's mess in the next episodes.
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