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Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Dec 1, 2013 17:51:29 GMT -5
^Yep...I agree. Catherine has not been "innocent" this season either. Both Vincent and Cat are struggling. It is just easier to call Vincent out on his "stuff" than Cat's. Catherine's progression this season is shady. She went from a non-stop, stalker-type character to someone who trusted a man who "claims" to be her biological father; running into the arms of a one-time Beast who, for all intents and purposes, is responsible for the destruction of the man/Beast she loved; and then felt compelled to shoot (and not just in the leg to stop him; she went for the chest/ab area -- more a "shoot to kill" scenario) the man/Beast she supposedly loves to save him from himself and his "Beastly" ways when she knew from the start that the guy had been brainwashed and messed with. The problem I have is that now that they are finding out "Who Am I?" and they are sharing themselves with us (the fans), I am finding it difficult to LIKE either of them -- LOL!!! That is what is so sad. I loved these characters. Now, not so much. Worse...I WANT to like them; I WANT to love them... I truly did both in Season 1. Still hoping for some type of miracle. I don't want to erase Season 1 (via memory swipe or otherwise). I enjoyed Season 1; I loved it, really. I do, however, have a tendency to want to erase certain episodes and scenes of Season 2 - ha!ha!ha! I'm still for the "real" Vincent being locked up somewhere while "Supercharged Vincent 2.0" is being discovered as a bad clone -- no matter how stupid that idea is, we could at least know that the "magic," "trust", "romance," and "epic love" could possibly return. I just don't know how the writers can turn this around to make us believe in them as a couple again. Has anyone heard anything that offers hope? I need an infusion of VinCat hope! I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either... 100% AGREED. Maybe they are BOTH clones --LOL!!! That would be the only way to bring it all back! All kidding aside, both Catherine and Vincent seem out of character to me and I miss their "Season 1 selves." Please do not misunderstand me, though. I am a BATB fan...I love this show...I am hanging on...I am still hopeful for full redemption. I just need some Beastie Enouragement!
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Post by wednesday on Dec 1, 2013 18:40:46 GMT -5
I don't think that TPTB want the same thing the fandom wants. I think they have decided that they went the wrong way in Season 1 and they now want this to be a show which is not centered around the Vincat relationship (because that's not enough to keep a show going for 3+ seasons), but around a larger story. Hence, the news about the introduction of a great deal of mythology on beasts, Muirfield and Cat's family in the second half of S2. I find it very similar to Supernatural, where the first season and half of the second season focused on the relationship between the three Winchesters and most of the episodes were "monster of the week". There wasn't a lot of underlying mythology or story arcs that lasted more than a few episodes. And then the finale of season 2 introduces us to the main story which carries on until the end of season 5. need to watch a bit of this show, never watched one episode and have no clue what it is about I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not!
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Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Dec 1, 2013 18:41:31 GMT -5
I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either... I don't blame on Vincent, either. That's what I don't understand about this “brilliant” plan for this season. I don't recognize any of these characters. Any of them, not only VinCat, though, as the story is centered on them, it's more noticable on them.
Tess is a pale shadow of the smart detective she was on S1. I'm not particularly her fan, but I admit that she was a cop back then. JT is constantly MIA so there's nothing to recognize on him. Gabe has zero personality. People talk about she-beast being a plot device, but at least we have nothing to compare on her character. Gabe is a plot device that lost his brain when his beast died.
What happened to these people? Did Reynolds manage to reprogram them at distance through Vincent?
I admit is unfair to blame Vincent for Catherine's change, but 2/3 of it is because of him, the same way that Vincent's change is 100% Reynold's fault. That's my main issue with Cat trusting him the way she did. It's like the writers didn't know their own character. Catherine's a cop. She should know how to smell a lie from 1 mile yet Bio-Dad played her like a piano.
I think that, in her desperation about losing her love the way she did, she also lost herself and that's why people blame on Vincent, despite not being his fault at all. She was so lost that she kept pushing and lying to herself so much that she forced Vincent to the point of explosion. In a way, part of what made him give in so easily to his beast was that he could clearly see in her eyes that he wasn't the man she loved anymore. If he doesn't have his safe harbor, why try to bring his ship to land?
None of these characters are recognizable. That's what is making me so lost and I think some other beasties, too. There's nothing on this season that leads me to believe that I'll ever see the characters I enjoyed so much on the last one. Exactly how I feel...the characters are almost unrecognizable. In all fairness, we do get a "glimpse" of the Catherine we knew and loved on occasion as well as Vincent. Tess and JT are rare. Gabe's excuse is that he was given a "second chance" at life; was he always meant to be a "sap" (albeit an adorable one -- killer smile that man has!)? Each and every one of us changes and grows throughout our lives. Our life experiences make us "who we are." This is what we are seeing with Catherine and Vincent. The circumstances and situations they have been confronted with have created and dictated the people they have become. It is so painful to watch. The situation with Catherine and Vincent is based in/on reality; the changes in them, their personal growth, caused by issues they have faced. To that end, I cannot doubt that the writers have succeeded. However....I watch BATB because I want to escape from reality; I want to enjoy the fairy tale "epic love" and "romance." We are being asked to accept and love our characters as they progress and grow. I am sticking with them; but I admit, I really do not like the people they have become. VinCat will be back together again, we all know that. What we need to be prepared for, though, is that the "VinCat" we know and love is GONE. We will never see our beloved characters the way they were in Season 1. The writers have made sure that Vincent and Catherine BOTH have made decisions with far-reaching consequences regarding each other and themselves. They are different people now. Reality-check -- we need to start referring to them as "VinCat 2.0." Hey, if we are lucky, maybe they will be "supercharged" too!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 1, 2013 18:57:09 GMT -5
need to watch a bit of this show, never watched one episode and have no clue what it is about I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! i kow that is why i want to watch it! next on my list now
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condor
Army Recruit
Posts: 109
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Post by condor on Dec 1, 2013 19:02:30 GMT -5
need to watch a bit of this show, never watched one episode and have no clue what it is about I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! Always nice to see a fellow SPN fan. Maybe the BatB writers should have written Cat and Tess to be a little more like a female version of the Winchesters. Btw why is it that so much of the beastie fanbase is female? Where are the men? Am I the only guy here? Also, why does everyone hate Gabe? Sendhil Ramamurthy is awesome. Any of you guys watched Heroes?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 1, 2013 19:03:32 GMT -5
I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! Always nice to see a fellow SPN fan. Maybe the BatB writers should have written Cat and Tess to be a little more like a female version of the Winchesters. Btw why is it that so much of the beastie fanbase is female? Where are the men? Am I the only guy here? nope there are at least two more in the forum
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Post by wednesday on Dec 1, 2013 19:06:09 GMT -5
I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! i kow that is why i want to watch it! next on my list now Can't wait to hear what you think! My friend is already in S5 & he started watching it like 3 weeks ago I think. He's depressed he's getting closer to the end! I told him slow it down then!
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Post by Andromeda03 on Dec 1, 2013 19:34:11 GMT -5
Hey Everyone,
Just a gentle reminder that this is the BatB episode section, and as such discussion should be about the episode and not geared more towards Supernatural and watching it. I get it, I do, I love that show too and sometimes its easy to make connections between BatB and Supernatural in some aspects. I can see discussing the 'connections/similarities' as they relate to BatB in a storytelling sense, however any discussion about watching Supernatural (or favorite things about the show, etc.) should be done in the Supernatural thread.
I'm including the link below for those wanting to talk specifically about that show.
www.saveeachotherbatb.com/thread/417/supernatural-cw
Thank you everyone!
~ Mod Andromeda
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 19:54:37 GMT -5
Yes, we have two individuals who are completely lost. Throughout both seasons, to different degrees, as the stakes got higher, they have both crossed all kinds of lines to save, protect, help each other; all in the name of love. So why have things gone so wrong? I believe it is because although "epic love", "love that is meant to be" is perfect, the people who are in love with each other are flawed human beings making wrong choices for what they believe to be the right reasons. And we, who love them, want to make the right choices for them, but we can't, because they are the only ones who can choose for themselves; and it is so hard to be unable to have any influence on them. So we are at the point where we just have to let them go and hope that they will come back to us...better, stronger and more together and in love than ever before. I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL I hope TPTB want the "epic love" that we all want too. I'm concerned because of all this talk about the mythological connection between Vincat that we will find out about. If there is another reason e.g. Murifield or Cat's mom, or whatever for them to be drawn to each other, then where is the love? Maybe I just don't understand the myology talk, but if they were programmed for each other, it kind of takes away the romantic love. I hope I'm just missing something; if anyone has any different ideas let us know! I am hoping that the mythological connection will add to the romance and the epic love; I'm not sure how, but I am hoping. Perhaps they had met before with some tie to Murfield and/or Cat's mom and both their memories were wiped at some point. Perhaps Cat is the reason why Vincent got cold feet and called off his wedding to Alex before enlisting....I don't know, but it better be really good. I'm just hoping, because I don't know what else to do.
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Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Dec 1, 2013 20:28:40 GMT -5
I hope TPTB want the "epic love" that we all want too. I'm concerned because of all this talk about the mythological connection between Vincat that we will find out about. If there is another reason e.g. Murifield or Cat's mom, or whatever for them to be drawn to each other, then where is the love? Maybe I just don't understand the myology talk, but if they were programmed for each other, it kind of takes away the romantic love. I hope I'm just missing something; if anyone has any different ideas let us know! I am hoping that the mythological connection will add to the romance and the epic love; I'm not sure how, but I am hoping. Perhaps they had met before with some tie to Murfield and/or Cat's mom and both their memories were wiped at some point. Perhaps Cat is the reason why Vincent got cold feet and called off his wedding to Alex before enlisting....I don't know, but it better be really good. I'm just hoping, because I don't know what else to do. I have high hopes for the mythological Vincent/Catherine connection, too. Somehow, I still believe the writers have something "epic" in store for us. Hoping we see something soon; BATB is getting so depressing!
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condor
Army Recruit
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Post by condor on Dec 1, 2013 20:29:25 GMT -5
I am hoping that the mythological connection will add to the romance and the epic love; I'm not sure how, but I am hoping. Perhaps they had met before with some tie to Murfield and/or Cat's mom and both their memories were wiped at some point. Perhaps Cat is the reason why Vincent got cold feet and called off his wedding to Alex before enlisting....I don't know, but it better be really good. I'm just hoping, because I don't know what else to do. It's an interesting possibility. We know that Vincent can't remember everything that happened in Afghanistan. My prediction: Vanessa was the one who helped him escape when the soldier beasts were being hunted (since he saved her life) and then helped him get back to the States. If so, it's possible that Cat and Vince knew each other back then, and possibly had their memories wiped later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 21:40:53 GMT -5
I am hoping that the mythological connection will add to the romance and the epic love; I'm not sure how, but I am hoping. Perhaps they had met before with some tie to Murfield and/or Cat's mom and both their memories were wiped at some point. Perhaps Cat is the reason why Vincent got cold feet and called off his wedding to Alex before enlisting....I don't know, but it better be really good. I'm just hoping, because I don't know what else to do. It's an interesting possibility. We know that Vincent can't remember everything that happened in Afghanistan. My prediction: Vanessa was the one who helped him escape when the soldier beasts were being hunted (since he saved her life) and then helped him get back to the States. If so, it's possible that Cat and Vince knew each other back then, and possibly had their memories wiped later. I am quite sure daddy Reynolds had something to do with it too; there is so much from S1 they could build on-Catherine not knowing that her mother had be in Afghanistan, Dr. C's body being moved fro it's original burial site, what Vincent know or didn't know about Catherine's parents...let's see where they decide to go.
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Post by DeadLikeWindsorJulz on Dec 1, 2013 23:38:11 GMT -5
I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! Always nice to see a fellow SPN fan. Maybe the BatB writers should have written Cat and Tess to be a little more like a female version of the Winchesters. Btw why is it that so much of the beastie fanbase is female? Where are the men? Am I the only guy here? Also, why does everyone hate Gabe? Sendhil Ramamurthy is awesome. Any of you guys watched Heroes? I LOVE the Gabe character! Most don't, I know. I am a tad bit prejudiced in his favor, since I loved Sendhil on Covert Affairs, short as his tenure was. Never saw him in Heroes, though. Probably the reason I love Gabe so much is because I'm a sucker for stories about a "bad guy" that turns his/her life around and tries to do right by those he/she did wrong to. Now, if Gabe reverts to the dark side, I'll just "love to hate" him!
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Post by feezya on Dec 2, 2013 4:51:45 GMT -5
I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL I don't think that TPTB want the same thing the fandom wants. I think they have decided that they went the wrong way in Season 1 and they now want this to be a show which is not centered around the Vincat relationship (because that's not enough to keep a show going for 3+ seasons), but around a larger story. Hence, the news about the introduction of a great deal of mythology on beasts, Muirfield and Cat's family in the second half of S2. I find it very similar to Supernatural, where the first season and half of the second season focused on the relationship between the three Winchesters and most of the episodes were "monster of the week". There wasn't a lot of underlying mythology or story arcs that lasted more than a few episodes. And then the finale of season 2 introduces us to the main story which carries on until the end of season 5. i believe this to be true too, but they have to maintain the vincat relationship as the core of the story though, after all titled beauty and the beast. i actually like how things are turning out but that's just me...
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Post by feezya on Dec 2, 2013 4:57:51 GMT -5
I told you! :DIt's really good & one of my favorite obviously from my signature! There is no greater love than that of the Winchester brothers! Honestly they're better than any love story I've seen & they're willing to do anything & everything for each other. That's why the show is so successful. The love story is the brother's relationship. Talk about mythology! I still love S1-S3 though! Some of my favorite episodes are in those seasons! I should be embarrassed that I can quote them, but I'm not! Always nice to see a fellow SPN fan. Maybe the BatB writers should have written Cat and Tess to be a little more like a female version of the Winchesters. Btw why is it that so much of the beastie fanbase is female? Where are the men? Am I the only guy here? Also, why does everyone hate Gabe? Sendhil Ramamurthy is awesome. Any of you guys watched Heroes? Cat + Tess more like the Winchesters would be AWESOME! Vincat S1 is the kind of romance most female want. which explain the fan base. but of course others have other reasons too. me, i like sendhil and even like he's there for Cat (don't shoot me please!!) and loooove Heroes. was disappointed when it ended.
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