|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 1, 2013 13:19:05 GMT -5
You know, I find it quite comical how some can easily put the blame on Vincent when Cat is equally to blame for her own actions. Secondly, if you really think about, Cat has always put Vincent in danger by placing her faith and trust in the wrong people, especially when attempting to control situations which she obviously could not. For example, the moment VinCat became an item, Cat should have let Evan know that she had no romantic feelings for him at all, as a result, it cost him his life. Despite all of the events that occurred in the first season, Vincent loved Cat unconditionally.
The problem with Cat is that she has very high expectations. Yet, once faced with one disappointment or when things do not go the way she wants them to, she immediately wants to give up. Primary example, during the middle of the first season Cat was all about trusting Vincent no questions asked, willing to be by his side no matter who or what they encountered. Second season, Vincent returns and has no memories of their life together. Clearly, someone has reprogrammed Vincent, yet Cat’s love for him blinded her to see that. Moreover, rather than respect Vincent’s wishes concerning his work/missions, Cat forced his hand repeatedly until Vincent unintentionally lost control. After her wake up call, Cat became hypocritical from there on out. Rather than discuss her issues with Vincent, the person who she really should have been talking to all along, she confides in Gabe, JT, and Tess.
Once Vincent did begin remembering her, Vincent wanted his relationship with Cat to work despite his predicament. Cat is the one who was holding back. Until “Father Knows Best”, Vincent was in control of himself. Yet, since that episode and up to “Man or Beast”, Cat has done nothing but doubted Vincent, given her trust to Gabe and to a complete stranger, who in the end was ultimately responsible for destroying Vincent’s life.
Bottom line and as many have already mentioned, Vincent nor Cat are victims. Cat and Vincent are both equally responsible for the events that have unfolded. It has absolutely nothing to do with his past with Alex or short fling with Gabriella, not even that meaningless kiss he had with Tori. Further, Tori should only be around until episode 9 or 10 (have to find that article or tweet cannot remember which one). Not really understanding why some choose to blame Vincent continuously for his past deeds, and give Cat a free pass. I must be missing something. Further, given the theme of the second season is “Who Am I”, this is a good direction for VinCat, as it is now forcing them to deal with hard issues, make tough decisions as well as define who both are individually on their own. Moreover, once VinCat are able to overcome their issues and fears, it will make them stronger in the end. Think about it, if you really love someone that much, is your love and relationship not worth fighting for and to me that is how I perceive epic love.
Now, you can choose to agree or disagree, just had to put my two cents out there.
and i agree with your two cents. both are to blame and both are victims, if you know what I mean. and neither is perfect or faultless. which is fine and realistic and believable. oh and tori is in episode 11, I have a feeling that is her last episode though may be wrong
|
|
|
Post by lilbit-XO-VinCat on Dec 1, 2013 13:41:04 GMT -5
^Yep...I agree. Catherine has not been "innocent" this season either. Both Vincent and Cat are struggling. It is just easier to call Vincent out on his "stuff" than Cat's. Catherine's progression this season is shady. She went from a non-stop, stalker-type character to someone who trusted a man who "claims" to be her biological father; running into the arms of a one-time Beast who, for all intents and purposes, is responsible for the destruction of the man/Beast she loved; and then felt compelled to shoot (and not just in the leg to stop him; she went for the chest/ab area -- more a "shoot to kill" scenario) the man/Beast she supposedly loves to save him from himself and his "Beastly" ways when she knew from the start that the guy had been brainwashed and messed with. The problem I have is that now that they are finding out "Who Am I?" and they are sharing themselves with us (the fans), I am finding it difficult to LIKE either of them -- LOL!!! That is what is so sad. I loved these characters. Now, not so much. Worse...I WANT to like them; I WANT to love them... I truly did both in Season 1. Still hoping for some type of miracle. I don't want to erase Season 1 (via memory swipe or otherwise). I enjoyed Season 1; I loved it, really. I do, however, have a tendency to want to erase certain episodes and scenes of Season 2 - ha!ha!ha! I'm still for the "real" Vincent being locked up somewhere while "Supercharged Vincent 2.0" is being discovered as a bad clone -- no matter how stupid that idea is, we could at least know that the "magic," "trust", "romance," and "epic love" could possibly return. I just don't know how the writers can turn this around to make us believe in them as a couple again. Has anyone heard anything that offers hope? I need an infusion of VinCat hope!
|
|
|
Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Dec 1, 2013 15:27:13 GMT -5
^Yep...I agree. Catherine has not been "innocent" this season either. Both Vincent and Cat are struggling. It is just easier to call Vincent out on his "stuff" than Cat's. Catherine's progression this season is shady. She went from a non-stop, stalker-type character to someone who trusted a man who "claims" to be her biological father; running into the arms of a one-time Beast who, for all intents and purposes, is responsible for the destruction of the man/Beast she loved; and then felt compelled to shoot (and not just in the leg to stop him; she went for the chest/ab area -- more a "shoot to kill" scenario) the man/Beast she supposedly loves to save him from himself and his "Beastly" ways when she knew from the start that the guy had been brainwashed and messed with. The problem I have is that now that they are finding out "Who Am I?" and they are sharing themselves with us (the fans), I am finding it difficult to LIKE either of them -- LOL!!! That is what is so sad. I loved these characters. Now, not so much. Worse...I WANT to like them; I WANT to love them... I truly did both in Season 1. Still hoping for some type of miracle. I don't want to erase Season 1 (via memory swipe or otherwise). I enjoyed Season 1; I loved it, really. I do, however, have a tendency to want to erase certain episodes and scenes of Season 2 - ha!ha!ha! I'm still for the "real" Vincent being locked up somewhere while "Supercharged Vincent 2.0" is being discovered as a bad clone -- no matter how stupid that idea is, we could at least know that the "magic," "trust", "romance," and "epic love" could possibly return. I just don't know how the writers can turn this around to make us believe in them as a couple again. Has anyone heard anything that offers hope? I need an infusion of VinCat hope! I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 15:58:31 GMT -5
I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either... I don't blame on Vincent, either. That's what I don't understand about this “brilliant” plan for this season. I don't recognize any of these characters. Any of them, not only VinCat, though, as the story is centered on them, it's more noticable on them.
Tess is a pale shadow of the smart detective she was on S1. I'm not particularly her fan, but I admit that she was a cop back then. JT is constantly MIA so there's nothing to recognize on him. Gabe has zero personality. People talk about she-beast being a plot device, but at least we have nothing to compare on her character. Gabe is a plot device that lost his brain when his beast died.
What happened to these people? Did Reynolds manage to reprogram them at distance through Vincent?
I admit is unfair to blame Vincent for Catherine's change, but 2/3 of it is because of him, the same way that Vincent's change is 100% Reynold's fault. That's my main issue with Cat trusting him the way she did. It's like the writers didn't know their own character. Catherine's a cop. She should know how to smell a lie from 1 mile yet Bio-Dad played her like a piano.
I think that, in her desperation about losing her love the way she did, she also lost herself and that's why people blame on Vincent, despite not being his fault at all. She was so lost that she kept pushing and lying to herself so much that she forced Vincent to the point of explosion. In a way, part of what made him give in so easily to his beast was that he could clearly see in her eyes that he wasn't the man she loved anymore. If he doesn't have his safe harbor, why try to bring his ship to land?
None of these characters are recognizable. That's what is making me so lost and I think some other beasties, too. There's nothing on this season that leads me to believe that I'll ever see the characters I enjoyed so much on the last one.
|
|
riv
Rookie Cop
Posts: 46
|
Post by riv on Dec 1, 2013 15:58:46 GMT -5
I don't see that Vincent 2.0 loves Katherine because it isn't evident that he has all his memories back. It isn't shown in his actions. I don't see that his connection, feelings and his love for her has returned with his few memories that he has regained. If he did, he wouldn't have crashed her car that Katherine was driving and he would have made sure she was al right first, before taking his revenge on her bio dad. He has completely ignored an unconscious Katherine who was still in the car, and focused on only going after her bio dad. She could have had a serious head injury. After watching 8 episodes of season 2, the epic love appears to have been destroyed. Right now, it only appears that he is only attracted/drawn to her, which is very different from loving her I don't see his love for her is that strong right now.
He needs to fall in love with her again first, and build some trust again, before he can begin fighting for her and for their love. She needs to trust in him again too.
However, I will keep on watching, even as depressing as it is right now.
|
|
|
Post by Reyna on Dec 1, 2013 15:59:59 GMT -5
^Yep...I agree. Catherine has not been "innocent" this season either. Both Vincent and Cat are struggling. It is just easier to call Vincent out on his "stuff" than Cat's. Catherine's progression this season is shady. She went from a non-stop, stalker-type character to someone who trusted a man who "claims" to be her biological father; running into the arms of a one-time Beast who, for all intents and purposes, is responsible for the destruction of the man/Beast she loved; and then felt compelled to shoot (and not just in the leg to stop him; she went for the chest/ab area -- more a "shoot to kill" scenario) the man/Beast she supposedly loves to save him from himself and his "Beastly" ways when she knew from the start that the guy had been brainwashed and messed with. The problem I have is that now that they are finding out "Who Am I?" and they are sharing themselves with us (the fans), I am finding it difficult to LIKE either of them -- LOL!!! That is what is so sad. I loved these characters. Now, not so much. Worse...I WANT to like them; I WANT to love them... I truly did both in Season 1. Still hoping for some type of miracle. I don't want to erase Season 1 (via memory swipe or otherwise). I enjoyed Season 1; I loved it, really. I do, however, have a tendency to want to erase certain episodes and scenes of Season 2 - ha!ha!ha! I'm still for the "real" Vincent being locked up somewhere while "Supercharged Vincent 2.0" is being discovered as a bad clone -- no matter how stupid that idea is, we could at least know that the "magic," "trust", "romance," and "epic love" could possibly return. I just don't know how the writers can turn this around to make us believe in them as a couple again. Has anyone heard anything that offers hope? I need an infusion of VinCat hope! I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either... Exactly Savana.
|
|
|
Post by Reyna on Dec 1, 2013 16:08:08 GMT -5
I don't see that Vincent 2.0 loves Katherine because it isn't evident that he has all his memories back. It isn't shown in his actions. I don't see that his connection, feelings and his love for her has returned with his few memories that he has regained. If he did, he wouldn't have crashed her car that Katherine was driving and he would have made sure she was al right first, before taking his revenge on her bio dad. He has completely ignored an unconscious Katherine who was still in the car, and focused on only going after her bio dad. She could have had a serious head injury. After watching 8 episodes of season 2, the epic love appears to have been destroyed. Right now, it only appears that he is only attracted/drawn to her, which is very different from loving her I don't see his love for her is that strong right now. He needs to fall in love with her again first, and build some trust again, before he can begin fighting for her and for their love. She needs to trust in him again too.However, I will keep on watching, even as depressing as it is right now. Which is exactly my point. Once VinCat reach that point, meaning once they are on even ground and are able to deal with their hardships. Yet, equally the same, Cat has her own trust issues to work out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 16:14:48 GMT -5
Yes, we have two individuals who are completely lost. Throughout both seasons, to different degrees, as the stakes got higher, they have both crossed all kinds of lines to save, protect, help each other; all in the name of love. So why have things gone so wrong? I believe it is because although "epic love", "love that is meant to be" is perfect, the people who are in love with each other are flawed human beings making wrong choices for what they believe to be the right reasons. And we, who love them, want to make the right choices for them, but we can't, because they are the only ones who can choose for themselves; and it is so hard to be unable to have any influence on them. So we are at the point where we just have to let them go and hope that they will come back to us...better, stronger and more together and in love than ever before.
I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 1, 2013 16:15:14 GMT -5
I agree that both are to blame or both did things not the best way. If that's the case, don't you think that Cat would also have to have a clon somewhere so the magic and trust and romance comes back when BOTH our old characters are back too?? Bringing back only the old Vincent wouldn't change things Cat also did wrong... As much as Vincent is more extreme in his changes because of his beasty side (which obviously influences him a lot this season) Cat has also changed in a way I don't completely like and can't blame for Vincent about all her behaviors either... I don't blame on Vincent, either. That's what I don't understand about this “brilliant” plan for this season. I don't recognize any of these characters. Any of them, not only VinCat, though, as the story is centered on them, it's more noticable on them.
Tess is a pale shadow of the smart detective she was on S1. I'm not particularly her fan, but I admit that she was a cop back then. JT is constantly MIA so there's nothing to recognize on him. Gabe has zero personality. People talk about she-beast being a plot device, but at least we have nothing to compare on her character. Gabe is a plot device that lost his brain when his beast died.
What happened to these people? Did Reynolds manage to reprogram them at distance through Vincent?
I admit is unfair to blame Vincent for Catherine's change, but 2/3 of it is because of him, the same way that Vincent's change is 100% Reynold's fault. That's my main issue with Cat trusting him the way she did. It's like the writers didn't know their own character. Catherine's a cop. She should know how to smell a lie from 1 mile yet Bio-Dad played her like a piano.
I think that, in her desperation about losing her love the way she did, she also lost herself and that's why people blame on Vincent, despite not being his fault at all. She was so lost that she kept pushing and lying to herself so much that she forced Vincent to the point of explosion. In a way, part of what made him give in so easily to his beast was that he could clearly see in her eyes that he wasn't the man she loved anymore. If he doesn't have his safe harbor, why try to bring his ship to land?
None of these characters are recognizable. That's what is making me so lost and I think some other beasties, too. There's nothing on this season that leads me to believe that I'll ever see the characters I enjoyed so much on the last one. i agree that the characters are different - well i will focus on the two main characters anyway. they are different because things have happened to them or around them that have affected them greatly. i can still see elements of their old personalities in them - I don't see them as polar opposites or anything like that, but yes they are different. but i do not mind that, because I dont feel i need to see them exactly as they were before, i want to see these changes, i want to see their "downfall" however painful it is and i want to see their recovery (which I know will happen). and i also like you dont think what we will see the same exact characters as we saw in season 1, but i am hoping that we will see people who are confident about who they are and certain of their love, even better versions of their initial self. that is why i am optimistic about the future. so far from what i have seen (and again i now this is just my personal opinion) the writers have done a good job of portraying the characters and the ways they have been affected by the events. weaknesses we saw in season 1 have now come to the front now that the characters have been challenged more , the question is how will they deal with these issues and weaknesses and how will they figure out what they really want and whether their love is really worth fighting for...
|
|
|
Post by feezya on Dec 1, 2013 17:04:08 GMT -5
^Yep...I agree. Catherine has not been "innocent" this season either. Both Vincent and Cat are struggling. It is just easier to call Vincent out on his "stuff" than Cat's. Catherine's progression this season is shady. She went from a non-stop, stalker-type character to someone who trusted a man who "claims" to be her biological father; running into the arms of a one-time Beast who, for all intents and purposes, is responsible for the destruction of the man/Beast she loved; and then felt compelled to shoot (and not just in the leg to stop him; she went for the chest/ab area -- more a "shoot to kill" scenario) the man/Beast she supposedly loves to save him from himself and his "Beastly" ways when she knew from the start that the guy had been brainwashed and messed with. The problem I have is that now that they are finding out "Who Am I?" and they are sharing themselves with us (the fans), I am finding it difficult to LIKE either of them -- LOL!!! That is what is so sad. I loved these characters. Now, not so much. Worse...I WANT to like them; I WANT to love them... I truly did both in Season 1. Still hoping for some type of miracle. I don't want to erase Season 1 (via memory swipe or otherwise). I enjoyed Season 1; I loved it, really. I do, however, have a tendency to want to erase certain episodes and scenes of Season 2 - ha!ha!ha! I'm still for the "real" Vincent being locked up somewhere while "Supercharged Vincent 2.0" is being discovered as a bad clone -- no matter how stupid that idea is, we could at least know that the "magic," "trust", "romance," and "epic love" could possibly return. I just don't know how the writers can turn this around to make us believe in them as a couple again. Has anyone heard anything that offers hope? I need an infusion of VinCat hope! i believe lots of us (if not most or all) of us do. but austin's interview did give some, at least for me. some more please...
|
|
|
Post by wanderer on Dec 1, 2013 17:04:41 GMT -5
Yes, we have two individuals who are completely lost. Throughout both seasons, to different degrees, as the stakes got higher, they have both crossed all kinds of lines to save, protect, help each other; all in the name of love. So why have things gone so wrong? I believe it is because although "epic love", "love that is meant to be" is perfect, the people who are in love with each other are flawed human beings making wrong choices for what they believe to be the right reasons. And we, who love them, want to make the right choices for them, but we can't, because they are the only ones who can choose for themselves; and it is so hard to be unable to have any influence on them. So we are at the point where we just have to let them go and hope that they will come back to us...better, stronger and more together and in love than ever before. I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL I hope TPTB want the "epic love" that we all want too. I'm concerned because of all this talk about the mythological connection between Vincat that we will find out about. If there is another reason e.g. Murifield or Cat's mom, or whatever for them to be drawn to each other, then where is the love? Maybe I just don't understand the myology talk, but if they were programmed for each other, it kind of takes away the romantic love. I hope I'm just missing something; if anyone has any different ideas let us know!
|
|
|
Post by feezya on Dec 1, 2013 17:10:36 GMT -5
I don't blame on Vincent, either. That's what I don't understand about this “brilliant” plan for this season. I don't recognize any of these characters. Any of them, not only VinCat, though, as the story is centered on them, it's more noticable on them.
Tess is a pale shadow of the smart detective she was on S1. I'm not particularly her fan, but I admit that she was a cop back then. JT is constantly MIA so there's nothing to recognize on him. Gabe has zero personality. People talk about she-beast being a plot device, but at least we have nothing to compare on her character. Gabe is a plot device that lost his brain when his beast died.
What happened to these people? Did Reynolds manage to reprogram them at distance through Vincent?
I admit is unfair to blame Vincent for Catherine's change, but 2/3 of it is because of him, the same way that Vincent's change is 100% Reynold's fault. That's my main issue with Cat trusting him the way she did. It's like the writers didn't know their own character. Catherine's a cop. She should know how to smell a lie from 1 mile yet Bio-Dad played her like a piano.
I think that, in her desperation about losing her love the way she did, she also lost herself and that's why people blame on Vincent, despite not being his fault at all. She was so lost that she kept pushing and lying to herself so much that she forced Vincent to the point of explosion. In a way, part of what made him give in so easily to his beast was that he could clearly see in her eyes that he wasn't the man she loved anymore. If he doesn't have his safe harbor, why try to bring his ship to land?
None of these characters are recognizable. That's what is making me so lost and I think some other beasties, too. There's nothing on this season that leads me to believe that I'll ever see the characters I enjoyed so much on the last one. i agree that the characters are different - well i will focus on the two main characters anyway. they are different because things have happened to them or around them that have affected them greatly. i can still see elements of their old personalities in them - I don't see them as polar opposites or anything like that, but yes they are different. but i do not mind that, because I dont feel i need to see them exactly as they were before, i want to see these changes, i want to see their "downfall" however painful it is and i want to see their recovery (which I know will happen). and i also like you dont think what we will see the same exact characters as we saw in season 1, but i am hoping that we will see people who are confident about who they are and certain of their love, even better versions of their initial self. that is why i am optimistic about the future. so far from what i have seen (and again i now this is just my personal opinion) the writers have done a good job of portraying the characters and the ways they have been affected by the events. weaknesses we saw in season 1 have now come to the front now that the characters have been challenged more , the question is how will they deal with these issues and weaknesses and how will they figure out what they really want and whether their love is really worth fighting for... i really like the way you put this little pieces of puzzles in my head together
|
|
condor
Army Recruit
Posts: 109
|
Post by condor on Dec 1, 2013 17:20:56 GMT -5
I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL I don't think that TPTB want the same thing the fandom wants. I think they have decided that they went the wrong way in Season 1 and they now want this to be a show which is not centered around the Vincat relationship (because that's not enough to keep a show going for 3+ seasons), but around a larger story. Hence, the news about the introduction of a great deal of mythology on beasts, Muirfield and Cat's family in the second half of S2. I find it very similar to Supernatural, where the first season and half of the second season focused on the relationship between the three Winchesters and most of the episodes were "monster of the week". There wasn't a lot of underlying mythology or story arcs that lasted more than a few episodes. And then the finale of season 2 introduces us to the main story which carries on until the end of season 5.
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Dec 1, 2013 17:25:48 GMT -5
I do know that it is TPTB who are controlling everything, but I want to believe that they want the same things we want. Sure, they haven't gone about things the way most fans think they should have, but hopefully they will end up in the same place we want them to be. Well, they better, or I may have to cross some lines of my own, if you know what I mean. LOL I don't think that TPTB want the same thing the fandom wants. I think they have decided that they went the wrong way in Season 1 and they now want this to be a show which is not centered around the Vincat relationship (because that's not enough to keep a show going for 3+ seasons), but around a larger story. Hence, the news about the introduction of a great deal of mythology on beasts, Muirfield and Cat's family in the second half of S2. I find it very similar to Supernatural, where the first season and half of the second season focused on the relationship between the three Winchesters and most of the episodes were "monster of the week". There wasn't a lot of underlying mythology or story arcs that lasted more than a few episodes. And then the finale of season 2 introduces us to the main story which carries on until the end of season 5. need to watch a bit of this show, never watched one episode and have no clue what it is about
|
|
condor
Army Recruit
Posts: 109
|
Post by condor on Dec 1, 2013 17:44:08 GMT -5
need to watch a bit of this show, never watched one episode and have no clue what it is about You should, it's really good.
|
|