sandie
Army Recruit
Last episode Deja Vu
Posts: 146
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Post by sandie on Nov 8, 2013 22:29:19 GMT -5
I love that they are building on each of the characters backstories individually. Am missing the romance of season 1, am hoping to see this in the next episode and for future episodes to come. Would also love to see jt and Vincent's history, that is what is lacking in the storyline, the friendship between these two characters and how their bond is so strong. The relationships that each character has with one another is what propels them forward. Am looking forward to Catherine's confrontation with her father and how she deals with that situation.
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Post by Maria on Nov 8, 2013 23:14:01 GMT -5
Hello all, I have been MIA since the end of 1st season. I have been busy with family and the recent passing of my father. I finally got caught up to this week's ep. Not sure if they have been discussed yet, but the last few episodes - Tess kept teasing Gabe about liking Catherine. He time he denied it. But this last episode he admitted it. Do you think he's helping her with good intentions or to get close to her? So sorry to learn about your father! My heart goes out to you. Sending hugs and prayers. But welcome back!
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Post by Maria on Nov 8, 2013 23:31:27 GMT -5
First and foremost I would like to address what I've been seeing on the board the last few days..I am the FIRST person that believes in expressing how one feels and giving your opinions and critique of the episodes. There is nothing wrong with a good discussion. Some don't agree with others and vice-versa but that is what discussions are for. Where I disagree with some is the 'doomed' attitude that some have taken cause they don't like the direction the show has taken. That brings us as a fan base to an all time low...I LIVED on twitter the awful stuff that was said when the ALEX arc hit the fan and it wasn't pretty BUT what I have been seeing lately goes far beyond that. It is truly sad that some people feel this way. I think personally that this show still has so much to offer if given a chance. By this I mean to express how you feel and have discussions without sealing the fate of the show when to be honest it is still to early to call. I come to this board to chat, read, laugh and discuss the weekly episodes and to share on good news as well as bad. Why do we have to be so negative? Like you I'm not happy about the writing sometimes. Especially the ALEX ARC and what Vincent did to Catherine.I haven't forgotten and I cringe at seeing the episodes til this day but we MOVED on.Why can't we do the same here? I guess the kicker here is the Vincent Keller that we thought we knew( cause of the writers in season 1) Isn't the Vincent Keller we fell in love with? The way the writers are writing his back story before he was a beast and went into hiding for 10 years? The fact that Mr.Keller wasn't a saint? But who is? Truly we have to be naive to believe that Vincent was a goody two shoes all his life. This comes from the fact that ALL the writers in season 2 are new. They didn't use any of the old season 1 writers with the exception of Grant and Levin and Cooper. Only thing I can think of that they changed the direction of the show so much was that when TPTB gave the show a second season they gave an outline of what they wanted in terms of content. Keep the romance but add more angst and different back stories eliminating the story of the week cop show and adding a Sci-Fi element to it. to try to attract more viewers and still keep the season 1 fans happy. That would work only if they'd keep the main premise of the show intact. For some the original concept of the show has changed that 'some' refuse to accept it and try to see what comes next before judging it. I know that this season the episodes are all over the place, but I think there is a reason for that. I don't intend to know what it is but I don't think that things happening the way they are is just random. There is more to this then meets the eye. This episode was all over the place but IMO FOR THE MOST PART IT WORKED. It had revelation, danger,fun and romance (to a point)..I see it as a discovery of characters.. Catherine: wanting her own space, to figure out who she is. She is all over the place feelings wise.Not knowing who her father is, dealing with Vincent's memories(or lack of them) and admitting to being in love with a beast but still having reservations in going back to 'how things used to be' ...I see nothing wrong in that cause..She is unsure not only of him but of herself. She can't move forward until she discovers what she truly wants and what she truly thinks is right for her. Then we have Vincent, Now here's where things become FUDGED up, we were given a prospective of him in season 1 that now we are seeing was not entirely true. We are beginning to learn about things that we thought Vincent wouldn't do. The Gabriella revelation and the fact that he had a fling with another woman while he was on and off with Alex was a shocker to most and to be honest with me too. But like I said on another thread..I would have taken this worse if Vincent was bragging about it..The memories were bought on by Zack for the purpose of him remembering so he can throw in his face that Gabriella was his girl first and Vincent took her away from him. This set out a personal vendetta against Vincent. I saw that scene as though V got them cause Zack triggered it. It was also in the past and like JT explained during a break from Alex. I'm NOT happy the writers went this way either but like I said we truly had no idea who Vincent was before he became a beast. SO for the writers ANYTHING is game. As much as I didn't like that..I loved the revelation that he was a firemen like his brothers first. Then again the discussion of age and consistences on that plot line is also in question. But may I say that when it comes to stuff like these ALL shows even the best of them have inconsistency problems. NO show is perfect. Gabe: Don't like his character one bit and now more that we know he likes Catherine. What is his motive with Vincent? Is he a beast still? Either way I do hope that they don't go that route cause it was done with Evan and look how that turned out. I like Sendhil character but it would be better if he became the BAD guy for this or we found out he's working for REAL DADDY REYNOLDS Tess; Still don't like her ..She's the weakest link. JT: Now he's fantastic I loved his one liner with "You should have talked faster" LOL I didn't like that Vincent sort of left him out in the bar scene and ignored him while with Zack but Zack played Vincent like a fiddle cause he got what he wanted. And of course true friend JT comes in to reassure his friend that he did nothing wrong. JT and Vincent's friendship aside from Catherine and Vincent IS my favorite of the show. The fight scenes are well done! I loved that there were actually 3 of them in one episode..I don't think that's been done before. I thought it was executed nicely and I loved the way Catherine fought Zack in her room..In the slow mo I can see it was KK doing it. SO kudos to her. As BOTH Beast mano a mano were great too. Daddy Reynolds : Good guy or bad?? At least we know that he sort of cares for Catherine. He was concerned for her well being when he found out she was attacked. Now I get what TW answered me on twitter when I asked if he was a bad guy..ALthough I am curious to see what happens when they actually meet up..Father and daughter for the first time. The Catherine and Vincent speech at the end was 'nice' I think he was trying to express how important she was to him even though he doesn't fully remember her. The idea that she has given so much of herself to him will loom heavy in future episodes..Poor Vincent is going to be guilt ridden when he finds out ALL he's done once he gets all his memories back. THe kiss was sweet but she held back IMO cause like I said Catherine is still trying to figure out where her and Vincent stand. Now for what for me is the What the <edited> moment.. and the part I think made me go was the DADDY revelation. Couldn't the writers do it more dramatic? I thought it was lame..and with Gabe no less..Come on I'm no writer but I thought they could have done better..G! I agree with a lot of folks that this episode isn't the best...for me HOTHEAD and KIDNAPPED are my S2 fav so far but it wasn't a total lose..I think we got insight on both Catherine and especially Vincent which sets up the final 3 episodes of this arc. Like I said at the beginning of this post..We must see this through...This is a puzzle with tons of pieces the 'final' reveal will come when all the puzzle pieces come together to make the whole. Let's just see where it takes us. YEAH? And remember that IF we all didn't love this show and this show touch us and bring out all these feelings ..We wouldn't be here discussing it right now! ALL no matter if our opinions differ! We are all entitled to them FREELY Oh and I give this episode 7 out of 10 for the stuff I previously mentioned Yolie Finally catching up after being off the board here. Oh my. I am discouraged by so much negativity and the differences of opinion being taken personally. I want to stay away from the threads that seem to have posts employing bullying tactics. Thank you Yolie from being the moderator and trying to put a lid on it. I also appreciate CrazyforV's and Nelly's efforts of the same in trying to bring the positivity back into the negative fog that seems to be seeping in here on a grand scale. I'm certainly not as well spoken as many here, and realize so much can be lost in translation, or typing (spelling included). But it's getting to the point where some of us will truly want to stay away. We cannot "force" someone else to accept our opinion or views. And there are a few here that - whatever they may feel or have been through in their own lives - they harness that and place it strongly on the "character" in the show. It's a character people, they aren't supposed to be real. Plus people writing on and on without even having seen the episode in question and placing judgements about the character or episode or even the entire series because it does not go the way they want - and getting mad at those that try to defend it....and frankly it's a bore when one feels beaten down by forced negativity. So let's calm down people, and enjoy the show. If we - as rabid fans - cannot be positive, here as a family on the board - how can we expect new members of the board, or new fans of the show to want to watch it if we ourselves cannot be positive about the the show, the characters, the actors, the writing, and the group dynamics here. We have to stick together, not just for ourselves, but for the show. Cracks here can spread and become fissures. Cheers all.
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Post by sunshine978 on Nov 9, 2013 2:09:15 GMT -5
I think part of loving a show and being such dedicated fans that we all our is being critical and giving constructive criticism, otherwise a show cannot improve. So as much as I and others may complain I am sure at least the fans in this forum are in it till the end. It is a relief to hear that it was a new writer for this episode. The first four episodes were really promising and consistent but this episode was so off that I started to panic. It is so essential to make a character multi-layered and flawed but it has to be done the right way. Unfortunately this episode just made a lot of people just not like Vincent anymore and that is not a good thing when Vincent is a main character. People were almost made to feel sorry for Alex, she kept all of Vincent's pictures and letters 10 years after he had died so her relationship with Vincent was very important to her. I know they said they weren't together at the time but they just threw that in there like it was nothing. This episode made me have to assume a lot of things and I don't like that good writing doesn't do that. Jen & Sherri said that they love writing characters I hope in the future they are responsible for that aspect of the show. I have a feeling this was just a glitch because of the new writer and hopefully we get back on track so I can talk about all the things I enjoyed in the episode as opposed to all the negatives. In a way, I always felt sorry for Alex and her unfortunate love story. I hate her for many reasons, but not for the way she held on to Vincent’s memory.
I don’t hate Vincent. Beast 1.0 is still too vivid in my emotional memory to change my heart just because of one stupid and incoherent episode. I kept loving him even during Alex arc. But I am very, very worried that TPTB are taking beasties for granted exactly due to the fact that we choose to put “Alex’s arc skeleton” in the deepest, darkest corner of our closet and decided to forget about it.
Because of my feelings, I dare to say many beasties have the same disposition on their hearts.
Sometimes I feel like TPTB think beasties are just stupid and that we won’t see the discrepancies and incoherencies in the show, though. And that is bad because, if the old fans can’t stand that, how can we expect to win the hearts of new (and probably skeptical) viewers?
TPTB knows that beasties don’t want to see Vincent’s or Catherine’s messed up love lives. It’s not interesting to us and, I do believe, scare fans away.
I – and I believe most of the fandom – understand that Gabriella was introduced to show Vincent how lost he would be without Catherine, that he would probably be like Zach or even worse. But why necessarily put him having an affair with her, when our collective wound about Alex isn’t completely healed?
Besides, the story of a guy going after another guy to seek revenge because his girlfriend cheated on him is not even a good plot anymore. It's overly done. Zach having a grudge against Vincent because of Gabriella is kind of pathetic, if you ask me. Gabriella was his girlfriend. She was the one that owned him respect and faithfulness. She was the one that “ripped his heart out”, not Vincent. Therefore, there was not a legitimate reason for him to go after Vincent.
Wouldn’t it be much more interesting if Gabriella was an unfortunate casualty in one of Vincent’s beastly enraged episodes and Zach found out somehow? It would be more visceral and real. And could bring back the core of what made me fall in love with Vincent. A tortured man trying to fix the mistakes of his past.
That would be a more plausible reason for Vincent to have a flashback. It would be richer, IMO. And a real reason for him to admit to Cat that not only his good memories were back, but the bad ones. It would be such a good way to have him finding out who he truly is. It would make him question his so precious missions and all that it was said to him during his reprogramming.
There’s a lot of ways to tell a story. Right now, TPTB aren’t choosing a good one. I want to believe that this won’t last, that this is only a storm and that’s why I’m still here and I’m still fighting. I just want to see my faith rewarded somehow. Vincent Chandler, I have read many of your posts on this "Reunion" thread and I must say, you must have read my mind! I absolutely agree with practically everything you have said! First of all, I did not like "Reunion" and the second I saw Vincent's flashback of Gabriella and him in a provocative scene, I was instantly turned off. I completely agree that it was not necessary to show that Vincent had a fling with Gabriella; there are so many different scenarios they could have presented to us without tarnishing Vincent and Catheriene's beautiful love story. I love your idea of Vincent having killed Gabriella in a beastly rage...that would have been a great reason for Zach to want to avenge her death OR Gabriella and Vincent could have been friends and she grew to care about him...Zach could have found out and sought revenge....THere could have been a number of scenes they could have shown but they chose a sleazy one instead. ....and it was so intimate with all the kissing and touching...ugh!! I wish we weren't given a visual beause we now have that image in our heads and they can't take that back. They could imply things but they don't have to show us. If only they could do over an episode, wouldn't that be ideal! For me, they have cheapeaned/tarnished Vincent's character as well as the show and I don't feel the same way about it anymore. I don't find Vincent likeable anymore. I had grown to dislike him during the Alex arc and it took me awhile to warm up to him again...when I finally did, look at what they're done again! If you no longer like one of the main characters, it doesn't make sense watching the show anymore. who knows what other women we would see from Vincent's past. The writers had already established last season that Vincent was a good guy and that he and Alex were engaged (there was NO break) - they've re-written history and they expect us to just accept it. How can they expect to hold their viewers, viewers who have been with them supporting the show from day 1? We're yet to see CAtherine's past and we all know she liked bad boys, so who knows what they will show us! Maybe they will tarnish her character too! I don't trust the writers. I thought that, after everything we went through during the dreadful Alex arc, they would finally make things right and redeem Vincent's character. Vincent has been saying nice things to CAtherine so I truly believed that the writers were on the right track and then they showed us that provocative scene with Gabriella. So yes, they are capable of anything and we have the Tori arc starting soon. This is turning into a soap opera now.... and Tori has been described as a 'seductress devil' so I'm not going to subject myself to disappointment any longer. The second I saw Vincent and Gabriella, I knew that that was it for me. When things start becoming messy and the main characters' start getting tarnished, that's where I draw the line. So I will be taking a break from this show - I have stuck by BatB from day 1, supporting it, giving feedback, voting for hours and hours and this is what we all get in return .....crappy writing!! BatB is the only show I've watch and I've very disappointed in the direction the show is going but I will still continue to read the forums/message boards as I enjoy your comments thoroughly!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 5:12:07 GMT -5
! BatB is the only show I've watch and I've very disappointed in the direction the show is going but I will still continue to read the forums/message boards as I enjoy your comments thoroughly! I hope that things will improve greatly from here on out and hope that we all have positive things to talk about from episode 6 onwards Hope to have you on board again real soon sunshine978
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Nov 9, 2013 9:03:48 GMT -5
I just want to say that I love you all - the BATB fandom at large, and it has been a rough week watching silently as it kind of starts to fall apart. There is a sadness here which breaks my heart. I also think that together as a fandom, we can overcome these disappointments. I understand and appreciate the different viewpoints, however, I believe we still have reasons to have hope. BATB is my weekly - sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, guilty pleasure. I only share it with all of you. To be honest, I love this show unconditionally. After what they achieved in season 1- well I'm not sure it could be improved upon in our eyes. What I am trying to say is that despite imperfections, or perhaps in spite of them, there is plenty left to love...But I think we need to be forgiving. Case in point. For the most part we have not been disappointed by every episode - in fact, by and large we hit the ground running with season two and have only hit a few stumbling blocks. I will admit that I did not love Reunion, but it doesn't upset my whole apple cart. So Vincent had a fling while on a break from Alex? How much does that really change things? Not quite the same way that Vincent having a fling while on a break from Catherine would. For me, this is further evidence that his relationship with Alex was always doomed - and we never quite knew the whole story. He's also a man, and human, and it is ancient history. I honestly can't be bothered to care. IMO this was the writers way of stabbing the heart of the Vincent and Alex relationship. I don't know, just doesn't really upset me that much. Further evidence for me that Catherine is the one. Also, remember how much the Alex arc upset us in season 1? Remember how the good the payoff was afterwards? SO GOOD. I know we may feel like he does, but in reality, Vincent doesn't belong to us. He is a fictional character on a television show. His character also happens to be a man with a backstory - one that spans 35 or more years - we cannot possibly know all there is to know about him. We also cannot get so irrational every single time there is a woman around who may or may not have been involved with him at some point. Personally, I really really loved nearly everything about the first four episodes of S2. I can forgive one episode that I didn't love. I also believe - like Vincat - that we are stronger together than we are divided. Right now it is hard to watch our little beastie family so divided. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure we can overcome the obstacles (ratings etc.) if we don't stand strong together. I'm not saying NOT to have opinions or passion about the characters and things that happen on the show, but I think we have to have faith too. It is paralyzing and scary for me to see so much negativity. We have to ride the roller coaster - with all the ups and downs and loop de loops - together. I have only participated in the fandoms of a few special shows which particularly spoke to me. I'm not fickle in my affections. I would also like to say that on both of the previous shows that I really loved, they tried to kill off central characters only to have the fans campaign to save them. In both cases, after major media coverage and crazy CRAZY fan campaigns, the characters in questions were brought back. Why is this important right now? Because the power of this fandom - the beastie family that is united around the globe, is HUGE. We cannot let these lumps and bumps throw us off the roller coaster. Personally I have made a commitment to this show - this fandom - and I'm not going ANYWHERE. I am also not letting all this negativity darken my love for this show. I am waiting, patiently, for the payoff - of which there has already been plenty to love so far in season 2. I also believe that collectively as a fandom we need a big group hug!!! A few apropos quotes to get us through the rough patch: "The sun, though it passes through dirty places, yet remains as pure as before" ~Lord Edward Coke "Temperance is simply a disposition of the mind, which binds the passions" ~Saint Thomas Aquinas
"Diligence and patience, like faith, move mountains." ~William Penn
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Nov 9, 2013 9:09:07 GMT -5
! BatB is the only show I've watch and I've very disappointed in the direction the show is going but I will still continue to read the forums/message boards as I enjoy your comments thoroughly! I hope that things will improve greatly from here on out and hope that we all have positive things to talk about from episode 6 onwards Hope to have you on board again real soon sunshine978 I find myself "liking" whatever you say Zena, because I'm staring at that extremely pretty signature...
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Nov 9, 2013 9:51:53 GMT -5
Finally catching up after being off the board here. Oh my. I am discouraged by so much negativity and the differences of opinion being taken personally. I want to stay away from the threads that seem to have posts employing bullying tactics. . Yes, I have to agree that there are some who are "employing Bullying Tactics"! Sorry, but I have to take issue with this. You are not the only one who has said this, BTW. For some, maybe tonight's Canadian Thread should be prefaced with "If you haven't seen the episode yet, refrain from commenting. Comments are not legitimate until after viewing, Thank you". I am feeling that if you live in the US or not able to view the episode that your thoughts/comment/opinions are not welcomed. Is this really what you want people to do.......don't write something unless you have viewed the episode? Years ago, as a long time member of another forum, here in the US we viewed the TV episode first and we had many International fans come to the Episode Thread. It was such an event for us, describing the scenes and recapping. Eventually, we had one wonderful member who typed so fast she described the scene in great detail during the commercial break. We commented, laughed, complained, cheered, swooned, cried...........had a BLAST! Never once in ALL THE YEARS did anyone ever tell someone (International fan or Pre-empted that night) they shouldn't comment until after they saw the episode! WE NEVER IMPLIED IT NOR TRIED TO PROHIBIT any conversation. People were kind enough to try to always explain in detail so others could understand if there were questionable scenes. I am talking about hundreds of members. Some of the best memories were the first posts made and the FIRST reactions as we watched the scenes unfold......So hilarious,.... it captures the raw emotions. It is funny, going back and reading some of our thoughts and feelings of when we first saw a favorite episode. Those raw feelings still come through. That is what it is all about.........that emotion or reaction that the writers want the audience to feel. Good or Bad.....that first impression is usually very powerful. I appreciate that and find that when I see the episode on repeat I may or may not change my view.......that is what is so great about being invested in a story, you want it to be thought provoking and grabs and holds your attention. I think there are a few that want only a certain type of conversation to be expressed on this forum.......they want to control the conversation because they are "bored" and don't want a certain "tone". Isn't this a type of underlying censorship? I honestly don't understand why everyone wants to "tone down" this or that. IMO, it is boring to read about all 'sunshine and roses'! Some of us want to hear about the issues they have with the show.......IT SHOWS THEY CARE ENOUGH TO COMMENT. If they hated the show that much they wouldn't bother. But, I believe if you care about the show, you look at the things that don't "sit right" with you and see how it can be better. Of all the "negative" comments everyone it talking about, I most ALWAYS see comments on what they want to see better. Goodness sake, the writers READ THE GOOD AND THE BAD. The "negative" (for lack of a better term) are comments that give the writers INSIGHT and some fan DIRECTION. Don't for once kid yourself that they don't care about fan reaction good or bad..........they want it ALL!! For those who don't like the "negativity" ........you have a choice not to read or comment on it. But do you really want to set an "ALL POSITIVE COMMENTS ONLY" mantra?? Because that is what I am hearing and others are getting that message too. Should there be a balance, of course! But I honestly don't see anyone here in this Forum just bashing this show Day In and Day Out. This Reunion episode probably garnished the most criticism and rightfully so, IMO. The other episodes were mostly wonderful. Next week may be a stinker and the next may be Outstanding. That is the reality. Many have posted that we "ALL" should "check" out posts for negativity..........because 'others' have gotten together and rallied for a change in dialogue. I think you all should take a good hard look at what you are saying to some who may have something to say, but now will keep it to themselves because some have banded in support of this new "Tone" they want in discussions in this forum. That is definitely one way of keeping fans away. I don't know what is really going on in TWITTER......maybe there is more negativity, but here in SEO BATB it is a balance of both positive and negative. Let me remind people how much people criticized the Finale last year, (more than this episode) and I didn't hear this kind of complaints about the negativity then,......so why now? As some of you have connected with each other personally because of this show, so did I during another TV show. I met a Super Friend who lived in France and we met up when my family took a vacation there and she visited me in my hometown a year later.....we still converse. We bonded through the ups and downs of the series. Sharing the Good and Bad times in a show, sharing differences in opinion, and accepting each others differences is a very valuable experience. Trying to "contain" and "regulate" the conversations of others is a sad commentary about the forum. Very disappointing.
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Post by feezya on Nov 9, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
Finally catching up after being off the board here. Oh my. I am discouraged by so much negativity and the differences of opinion being taken personally. I want to stay away from the threads that seem to have posts employing bullying tactics. . Yes, I have to agree that there are some who are "employing Bullying Tactics"! Sorry, but I have to take issue with this. For some, maybe tonight's Canadian Thread should be prefaced with "If you haven't seen the episode yet, refrain from commenting. Comments are not legitimate until after viewing, Thank you". I am feeling that if you live in the US or not able to view the episode that your thoughts/comment/opinions are not welcomed. Is this really what you what people to do.......don't write something unless you have viewed the episode? Years ago, as a long time member of another forum, here in the US we viewed the TV episode first and we had many International fans come to the Episode Thread. It was such an event for us, describing the scenes and recapping. Eventually, we had one wonderful member who typed so fast she described the scene in great detail during the commercial break. We commented, laughed, complained, cheered, swooned, cried...........had a BLAST! Never once in ALL THE YEARS did anyone ever tell someone (International fan or Pre-empted that night) they shouldn't comment until after they saw the episode! WE NEVER IMPLIED IT NOR TRIED TO PROHIBIT any conversation. People were kind enough to try to always explain in detail so others could understand if there were questionable scenes. I am talking about hundreds of members. Some of the best memories were the first posts made and the FIRST reactions as we watched the scenes unfold......So hilarious,.... it captures the raw emotions. It is funny, going back and reading some of our thoughts and feelings of when we first saw a favorite episode. Those raw feelings still come through. That is what it is all about.........that emotion or reaction that the writers want the audience to feel. Good or Bad.....that first impression is usually very powerful. I appreciate that and find that when I see the episode on repeat I may or may not change my view.......that is what is so great about being invested in a story, you want it to be thought provoking and grabs and holds your attention. I think there are a few that want only a certain type of conversation to be expressed on this forum.......they want to control the conversation because they are "bored" and don't want a certain "tone". Isn't this a type of underlying censorship? I honestly don't understand why everyone wants to "tone down" this or that. IMO, it is boring to read about all 'sunshine and roses'! Some of us want to hear about the issues they have with the show.......IT SHOWS THEY CARE ENOUGH TO COMMENT. If they hated the show that much they wouldn't bother. But, I believe if you care about the show, you look at the things that don't "sit right" with you and see how it can be better. Of all the "negative" comments everyone it talking about, I most ALWAYS see comments on what they want to see better. Goodness sake, the writers READ THE GOOD AND THE BAD. The "negative" (for lack of a better term) are comments that give the writers INSIGHT and some fan DIRECTION. Don't for once kid yourself that they don't care about fan reaction good or bad..........they want it ALL!! For those who don't like the "negativity" ........you have a choice not to read or comment on it. But do you really want to set an "ALL POSITIVE COMMENTS ONLY" mantra?? Because that is what I am hearing and others are getting that message too. Should there be a balance, of course! But I honestly don't see anyone here in this Forum just bashing this show Day In and Day Out. This Reunion episode probably garnished the most criticism and rightfully so, IMO. The other episodes were mostly wonderful. Next week may be a stinker and the next may be Outstanding. That is the reality. Many have posted that we "ALL" should "check" out posts for negativity..........because 'others' have gotten together and rallied for a change in dialogue. I think you all should take a good hard look at what you are saying to some who may have something to say, but now will keep it to themselves because some have banded in support of this new "Tone" they want in discussions in this forum. That is definitely one way of keeping fans away. I don't know what is really going on in TWITTER......maybe there is more negativity, but here in SEO BATB it is a balance of both positive and negative. Let me remind people how much people criticized the Finale last year, (more than this episode) and I didn't hear this kind of complaints about the negativity then,......so why now? As some of you have connected with each other personally because of this show, so did I during another TV show. I met a Super Friend who lived in France and we met up when my family took a vacation there and she visited me in my hometown a year later.....we still converse. We bonded through the ups and downs of the series. Sharing the Good and Bad times in a show, sharing differences in opinion, and accepting each others differences is a very valuable experience. Trying to "contain" and "regulate" the conversations of others is a sad commentary about the forum. Very disappointing. This place is called is a forum, thus its a place to "discuss" ones opinions be it positive or negative, ups and downs. but lately, there are comments which had crossed the thin line, becoming attacks instead of comments. someone has pointed it out before that this forum is international, that messages are sometimes interpreted wrongly at times. so the important thing in bridging that barrier is being "respectful". if we accidentally hurt someones feeling, we apologise. we shouldn't fight fire with fire, and getting personal with what we wrote. that's when things get blown out of proportion, and feelings get hurt. i'm not a person good with words, and my english is not perfect either. i was a silent observer for months before actually participate in the thread. what finally made me do that was because this is such a fun place! i love reading everyones comment, sharing their reaction and also disagreeing with some. but it's great to meet similar people who love this show, to share opinion and thoughts coz my "outside" friends just don't understand my fascination and obsession towards this show. And i believe THAT is the MAIN reason this forum was created in the first place (at least for me that's the reason). So i hope those who are here, please keep this place as it how it should be. Let's work together to make this place OUR place. It have grown on me and i love it here. Edit: I wasn't aware about the "don't comment before watching" statement but i feel it's not that u shouldn't comment, but more of not judging. Otherwise, what would be the point of having the canadian thread open to everyone?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 10:59:15 GMT -5
Vincent Chandler, I have read many of your posts on this "Reunion" thread and I must say, you must have read my mind! I absolutely agree with practically everything you have said! First of all, I did not like "Reunion" and the second I saw Vincent's flashback of Gabriella and him in a provocative scene, I was instantly turned off. I completely agree that it was not necessary to show that Vincent had a fling with Gabriella; there are so many different scenarios they could have presented to us without tarnishing Vincent and Catheriene's beautiful love story. I love your idea of Vincent having killed Gabriella in a beastly rage...that would have been a great reason for Zach to want to avenge her death OR Gabriella and Vincent could have been friends and she grew to care about him...Zach could have found out and sought revenge....THere could have been a number of scenes they could have shown but they chose a sleazy one instead. ....and it was so intimate with all the kissing and touching...ugh!! I wish we weren't given a visual beause we now have that image in our heads and they can't take that back. They could imply things but they don't have to show us. If only they could do over an episode, wouldn't that be ideal! For me, they have cheapeaned/tarnished Vincent's character as well as the show and I don't feel the same way about it anymore. I don't find Vincent likeable anymore. I had grown to dislike him during the Alex arc and it took me awhile to warm up to him again...when I finally did, look at what they're done again! If you no longer like one of the main characters, it doesn't make sense watching the show anymore. who knows what other women we would see from Vincent's past. The writers had already established last season that Vincent was a good guy and that he and Alex were engaged (there was NO break) - they've re-written history and they expect us to just accept it. How can they expect to hold their viewers, viewers who have been with them supporting the show from day 1? We're yet to see CAtherine's past and we all know she liked bad boys, so who knows what they will show us! Maybe they will tarnish her character too! I don't trust the writers. I thought that, after everything we went through during the dreadful Alex arc, they would finally make things right and redeem Vincent's character. Vincent has been saying nice things to CAtherine so I truly believed that the writers were on the right track and then they showed us that provocative scene with Gabriella. So yes, they are capable of anything and we have the Tori arc starting soon. This is turning into a soap opera now.... and Tori has been described as a 'seductress devil' so I'm not going to subject myself to disappointment any longer. The second I saw Vincent and Gabriella, I knew that that was it for me. When things start becoming messy and the main characters' start getting tarnished, that's where I draw the line. So I will be taking a break from this show - I have stuck by BatB from day 1, supporting it, giving feedback, voting for hours and hours and this is what we all get in return .....crappy writing!! BatB is the only show I've watch and I've very disappointed in the direction the show is going but I will still continue to read the forums/message boards as I enjoy your comments thoroughly! Unfortunately, that’s Alex’s arc legacy to the fandom. Lack of faith. That was what I feared the most about it.
Is there anything I can do to make you wait a little more and see what’s coming next? I’m the first one to say that TPTB are messing with us and taking us for granted, but I still refuse to believe that they’ll simply ignore us for the rest of the season. Maybe I’m in denial.
I don’t know if that could help you to get over this hopelessness, but you can try and do what I’m doing. I’m simply ignoring 2x05. In my mind, this thing with Gabriella was just a poor excuse of a badly writing script and shouldn’t be considered in the bigger picture. That’s the same thing I did with Alex’s arc.
I would love to have you reconsidering your current disposition towards the show. I get that you have all the right to feel that way and that you have lot of reasons for it. I just feel too sad to lose a member of our family.
Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Nov 9, 2013 11:08:35 GMT -5
Even before this Forum was started, I was onboard. As a fan of Kristin and before Jay was even hired, Katie and Karen invited many us here to come and join in the fun. I was here from the beginning and I will be here till the end, supporting this show. This show has become a guilty pleasure and I enjoy reading everyone's viewpoints......THE GOOD, THE BAD and THE UGLY! It all has value. WE ALL HAVE VALUE! I am willing to wait and see how it all plays out. I don't worry about the future episodes....I am terrible at speculating, I leave that up to Yolie. I base my views on the past and what is given to us. I hope for the future but dread the angst........I always hope that the writers are kind and don't break my heart. That is why I try to prepare myself with spoilers. It is amazing how immersed you can become in a show. I truly enjoy all the differences we all here have, and I try to show respect to all. I know we all care about the show. I want to share the ups and downs with all of you, and when others are feeling down about things happening......maybe we can all help uplift them and not admonish those feelings. I think there is a lot of fear of going through another "Alex Arc"........I think that was painful and drawn out........if something like that happens we need to help instead of reprimand others for feeling 'negative' or 'angry' and expressing that. But we need to remember that they all have a right to feel the way they do.....and even though it is a negative response, it is all coming from a place of caring not "hate". I hope we all can understand that. (we need a group hug smilie too!)
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Nov 9, 2013 11:36:30 GMT -5
Edit: I wasn't aware about the "don't comment before watching" statement but i feel it's not that u shouldn't comment, but more of not judging. Otherwise, what would be the point of having the canadian thread open to everyone? I agree feezya about your post, but I wanted to address this! Let me make one more comment about this then I am done......( I know, eye-rolling )... Look, so what if someone makes a "judgement" about something they heard described about the show sight unseen. Maybe that comment is way off base and inaccurate.......then when the show airs the situation is clearer. It shows either that person is so wrong from the get go and they are embarrassed after or they look foolish or, just maybe, they may be correct! So what?? Maybe if someone is so wrong they think twice before posting like that again.......who knows? We won't if people start trying to put the kabosh on it by laying down some pre-determined rules of commenting? I deplore censorship (unless it crosses the lines of decency and is vulgar).........free flowing ideas and opinions makes for creativity and expanding knowledge. You can just as easily pick and choose what you want to read and if you don't agree, state it and move on, respectfully. I don't think anyone here is crossing the lines of bashing. ( I think if you have ever read some of the bashing Kristin Kreuk got on Smallville you know what I am talking about. AND this doesn't even come close). Let's all step back and see how we feel step by step.......we may just laugh at ourselves later and see ere in our ways or we will say to ourselves that we were right all along.
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Post by Maria on Nov 9, 2013 12:34:02 GMT -5
Rather than “quoting” another long post or reply to such and cluttering up the thread, I’m just going to come out and state that there may be some confusion regarding what threads are used for spoilers speculations. Directing this at SuzieQ, please no offence meant, but trying to clear up some confusion here. For all of us. I know I can get typing away on a thread and then realize (hopefully before I press “send”!) that I’m in the wrong one. So please this is not meant to be offensive, but as a help. We have spoiler and speculation threads for each episode. ( Mods - please correct me if I am wrong here! Thank you!) Then there are the threads for the episodes that have already aired. The “Canadian” threads were started for those of us who are able to watch the show in Canada or via the Showcase.ca website - prior to the airing of the episode in the United States on CW Monday nights. Gratefully the mods set it up for those of us that have seen the episode in question and want to share our comments, thoughts, questions, with others that have seen it too…. without spoiling the fun for others who have yet to see the episode and do not want any spoilers. We don’t want to ruin it for them if they do not want to know the spoilers, and we don’t want people to ruin it for us too. All around fairness. If people want to speculate in writing and have not yet seen the episode - by all means, post in the appropriate thread for “speculation” or when the show airs, in the thread for that episode. Of course people can post in any thread, and read any if they want too. We’re all trying to promote the show we love. But let's not spoil it for others. Let’s put a full stop to negativity amongst ourselves. I feel this place is like a big family, however dysfunctional each of us may be on our own or in a group ( we’ll just blame the show for that!) Yes, we can comment on things we don’t like of course, but not trying to hijack a thread when someone does not agree with us. We may not all get along, but let’s at least try to be civil. The following is meant to be in fun, but sometimes I think we may turn into such with some of the threads I’ve read: Ya, to post rants about an episode they haven't even seen yet, and not read / listen to comments by those that have seen the episode who are defending what you are ranting about - what is going on. It's getting so negative that really I want to ignore certain threads and just looks for the news and gossip. Do such people act this way about a film they see - "Oh that villain did something bad and because I don't like seeing such a specific action / plot device / thing that can happen in real life - I will rant and rage about the film, writers, actors, plot, story line, fans who like the film. And even if I ignored the remainder of the film, I an entitled to still give my complete ranting critique of it. And force my opinion on others because I have just such a RIGHT to my opinions and like to hear myself being so important." Well that's my take on it. It's a TV show people, as much as we love it and want a real life Vincent of our own, the writers have to keep the plot moving, have drama, suspense, emotion, twists and turns, shocking events. Otherwise we'd just be watching the actors read the phone book. Frankly I'd pay to see Jay Ryan just read the phone book, but I know the studio system cannot live off of me alone. Okay? Let’s all play nice in the sandbox and not throw sand. And if we happen to toss sand and seriously did not intend to do so - well let’s apologize and move on. We have to stick together to promote our show. Cheers!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 12:54:50 GMT -5
I think it might be appropriate to define/differentiate between personal negativity and negative comments regarding the episodes and the show structure. The former is not okay, the latter should be fine...in my opinion.
I hope any less-than-positive comments regarding the episodes are not considered inappropriate on this forum. I understand there's a lot of optimism here regarding BATB, but all opinions should be considered......with the caveat (that was mentioned earlier) that they don't get personal.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Nov 9, 2013 13:46:59 GMT -5
I just want to say that I love you all - the BATB fandom at large, and it has been a rough week watching silently as it kind of starts to fall apart. There is a sadness here which breaks my heart. I also think that together as a fandom, we can overcome these disappointments. I understand and appreciate the different viewpoints, however, I believe we still have reasons to have hope. BATB is my weekly - sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, guilty pleasure. I only share it with all of you. To be honest, I love this show unconditionally. After what they achieved in season 1- well I'm not sure it could be improved upon in our eyes. What I am trying to say is that despite imperfections, or perhaps in spite of them, there is plenty left to love...But I think we need to be forgiving. Case in point. For the most part we have not been disappointed by every episode - in fact, by and large we hit the ground running with season two and have only hit a few stumbling blocks. I will admit that I did not love Reunion, but it doesn't upset my whole apple cart. So Vincent had a fling while on a break from Alex? How much does that really change things? Not quite the same way that Vincent having a fling while on a break from Catherine would. For me, this is further evidence that his relationship with Alex was always doomed - and we never quite knew the whole story. He's also a man, and human, and it is ancient history. I honestly can't be bothered to care. IMO this was the writers way of stabbing the heart of the Vincent and Alex relationship. I don't know, just doesn't really upset me that much. Further evidence for me that Catherine is the one. Also, remember how much the Alex arc upset us in season 1? Remember how the good the payoff was afterwards? SO GOOD. I know we may feel like he does, but in reality, Vincent doesn't belong to us. He is a fictional character on a television show. His character also happens to be a man with a backstory - one that spans 35 or more years - we cannot possibly know all there is to know about him. We also cannot get so irrational every single time there is a woman around who may or may not have been involved with him at some point. Personally, I really really loved nearly everything about the first four episodes of S2. I can forgive one episode that I didn't love. I also believe - like Vincat - that we are stronger together than we are divided. Right now it is hard to watch our little beastie family so divided. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure we can overcome the obstacles (ratings etc.) if we don't stand strong together. I'm not saying NOT to have opinions or passion about the characters and things that happen on the show, but I think we have to have faith too. It is paralyzing and scary for me to see so much negativity. We have to ride the roller coaster - with all the ups and downs and loop de loops - together. I have only participated in the fandoms of a few special shows which particularly spoke to me. I'm not fickle in my affections. I would also like to say that on both of the previous shows that I really loved, they tried to kill off central characters only to have the fans campaign to save them. In both cases, after major media coverage and crazy CRAZY fan campaigns, the characters in questions were brought back. Why is this important right now? Because the power of this fandom - the beastie family that is united around the globe, is HUGE. We cannot let these lumps and bumps throw us off the roller coaster. Personally I have made a commitment to this show - this fandom - and I'm not going ANYWHERE. I am also not letting all this negativity darken my love for this show. I am waiting, patiently, for the payoff - of which there has already been plenty to love so far in season 2. I also believe that collectively as a fandom we need a big group hug!!! A few apropos quotes to get us through the rough patch: "The sun, though it passes through dirty places, yet remains as pure as before" ~Lord Edward Coke "Temperance is simply a disposition of the mind, which binds the passions" ~Saint Thomas Aquinas
"Diligence and patience, like faith, move mountains." ~William Penn Okay I LOVE YOU!! I've tried two long posts to try to say how I feel and I should have waited for you to write this! Where the heck have you been? First what spy dancer said is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous two posts...I'm not an educated person cause of personal circumstances I only finished 9th grade...Where I get by is cause I'm street smart and life experiences...So sometimes it takes me longer to say what I want. And sometimes if not always what I want to say gets lost in translation sort of speaking. One of my posts I said we should enjoy the season cause next year we might not have one... I did say that...My brain thought of it but not my heart... You guys know that I am a firm believer in "Anything is possible" I lived last year's campaign to save the show..I myself made a video and send it to CW with 150 fan art and requests to save the show and in the book campaign I didn't just send 1 or 2 I sent 20 books at different times...it takes a lot for me to give up...Once again life's experiences and hard knocks have taught me to be tough..take things day by day ...treat others like you would like to be treated and fight for what you want.. When I said yesterday we should enjoy the show cause we might not have one next year was cause I was losing faith in us..The fans...I would do anything to save this show ...I did last year..But I CAN'T DO IT ALONE..The show needs all of us. I've heard all sides of the discussions...I understand that things were said BEFORE the episode was seen..So I can't be judgmental or shouldn't be when it comes to something that was commented on then... It's a forum and everyone is entitled to speak freely without fear of getting backlash ...then we'd be like a communist regime or something that you can only say what the regime wants...Maybe that's why things don't bother me as much..I left my country cause of exactly that and to prohibit or prosecute someone for saying what they want isn't expressing freely what we want to say. This is a free forum all game...With exception of foul language and x rated content that is LOL So I guess what I'm trying to say is don't change who you are...not everyone is the same... We all have FREE rights to express what we feel, whether we agree with the others views or NOT but we all have one thing in common... which breaks all boundaries... BEAUTY AND THE BEAST! And remember..."Together we can overcome anything" "We are stronger together then we are apart." I Love you all!
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