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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Oct 16, 2013 23:08:44 GMT -5
Okay shoot me for what I'm going to say BUT..What's wrong with Gabe? Honestly I think Vincent has done worse with Catherine then Gabe has to her. Don't you think? I mean Gabe did throw her around in NTB but in his defense at that time Gabe truly had no control of his Beast side so in that sense I am sure that until Catherine relayed to him what he had done as a beast Gabe had no recollection of what he and done. As Vincent does know what he does in Beast mode. I said from the beginning that I like Gabe..Do I trust him no? But now we go back to Vincent, do I trust hm now after the end of the episode? NO So I wouldn't mind seeing Gabe try to at least hook up with Catherine. LOL As it stands right now, Catherine would be better off -- that is emotionally. Physically...well...I might have to take a little abuse and stick with Vincent! I think the problem is the 'trust' issue...There was never a doubt until the end of this episode that Vincent could and would possibly hurt Catherine physically..Something that never truly crossed her mind and ours!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Oct 16, 2013 23:29:16 GMT -5
Okay we know that this forum is a good way to discuss and give opinions, in light of the ending that has a few of us wondering 'what were they thinking'? My question is this...How do you think is the way to handle this situation in the next episode? What would you want to see when it comes to this situation?
I have always had an open mind about a lot of things... I was raised in the age when children were spanked and punished in a manor that in today's standard would be called abuse.So I know how far we've come. I seen here with this discussion people's tolerance is different from others..SO I truly want to know how YOU would fix this situation if you were writing the next episode or two and what you think the writers will do with Catherine and her character cause of it?
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Post by sweetrosie29 on Oct 17, 2013 1:33:16 GMT -5
For me I can see both sides do I wish that they hadn't had Vince push Catherine to the ground then yes becuase she has spent so much time telling Gabe and Tess and herself that Vincent would never hurt her and she has seen him beast out enough times but she always trusted him when he told her that he wouldn't and then he does but like it's been said at the moment he look's like Vincent and sounds like Vincent which Cat was refusing to see and that's okay becuase she had her love taken away from her and she had no control to stop it searched for 3 months and then bam she's found him and is just so glad for that fact and I do also get why she tried the things she tried but at this moment in time it's not going to work so it needed Vincent to do something that is so not him and that would eat away at him in a sense to bring him back to his senses becuase at the moment he is torn between as he said this ' pull' he feels towards Cat and the distraction of her heartbeat becuase let's face it for 3 months he's just been all about mission after mission with no distraction and then along comes Cat and throws everything out of sync for him. Now like I said I did'nt like seeing our beloved Vince doing that but can't honestly think of another way apart from perhaps seeing him getting all cosy and up close and personal with another woman but even then i'm not so sure that would have worked but I do hope that it is the last time Vince pushes Cat.
From here now I want Cat to be really pissy with him which will be good to watch seeings that she wants to go under cover and he can tell when she's lying and don't want the writer's to have her jump into bed with Vincent again until he is truly not a reprogrammed super solider just to keep up the lie so maybe the photo of him on the fire escape is after what ever cat and mouse game they play in that episode and she comes clean and tells him that he really hurt her and if he can't remember her and what they had then she's walking away which hopefully in turn would make him take a good hard look at his actions with Cat and make him to contiune to question who made him the way he is now becuase on the photo he looks totally shell shocked and for me the fire escape and window was the or would be if they have gone there the perfect place to do it and make him think.
And I agree after the incident and at the moment Cat would be better of physically and emotionally walking away from Vince becuase she will soon learn the truth about her dad and she will need support and sadly at the moment Vince isn't the one to offer that.
This is just my view on Gabe but I think it would be kind of good to have him make a move on Cat this time becuase Vince was so sonvinced in season 1 that he wanted to and now that Gabe is human he could be aoption for Cat which in turn would make hopefully Vince feel like he did in season 1 but this time after what he did in kidnapped Cat doesn't get all cosy and do the vertical with Gabe but she think's you know what sod you to Vincent while hoping that it would trigger something in him becuase of how much distrust he had for Gabe. I don't want Cat or Vincent to get all kissy kissy or horizontal with anyone other than each other but I'm guessing that jealousy will play a part in having Vince remember their love and then Ccat's bio dad will come along and screw things up again.
So for me basically by epeiode 10 I would love to see them fully back on track and another great love scene like AMP becuase this time he would remember Cat and the love they have, don't get me wrong the boathouse sex and kissing was off the charts but I don't think they should do another love scene until a few more episodes down the line Vince supposedly has to work hard to win Cat back so giving him sex as a treat is just wrong and Cat needs to keep her dignity while Vince is behaving the way he is.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 1:40:21 GMT -5
I guess I can understand the point about applying real world expectations into a fictional character and not taking it that serious. But I just don't see how Vincent decking Cat with a violent outburst furthers the show in any meaningful way. It's just not cool....now matter how you look at it. If they're going to go down this path (or similar) I see big problems on the horizon for the show. And they already have enough problems considering the ratings. Maybe this is what they meant by an "achingly romantic narrative in season two?" Cat's sore butt? The sex scene is completely out of place and I feel it was included just to check off a box so the producers could continue on, and also to appease some viewers. Somebody tell me the producers of this show know what they're doing......Please! I don't think the 'sex' part was out of place, as a woman I can tell you that when I woman wants something from a man, whether husband or boyfriend they go to 'sex' as a means to get what they want..We woman know MEN(most of them) think with their 'other' brain so I seriously think the writers were going with that to justify putting that scene there...Besides IF I were Catherine and I haven't had some for 3 months and my partner was willing to take the bait even though he isn't himself I would have done exactly that! Now as for the violence towards her..I get it..I know it's tough to deal with and I don't condone it or like it...It isn't pretty and there's no right answer to justify that. Now my question is this..How are they going to address the issue in the future? The past is the past and it's done..Aren't you a bit curious to know how they are going to deal with the aftermath of this? I am! Always nice to have meaningful discussions with all of you agree, regarding the sex scene to me it was a must and totally natural . imagine the guy you were totally in love with had gone missing, you thought he wasdead and found him 3 months later. would u not want to have sex with him like right now!!! especially if you are making out in a supercool boathouse!! lets not forget she still at that point saw him as her boyfriend! now sex we definitely wont see for a little while now, thats for sure!
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Post by eternalxjourney on Oct 17, 2013 1:59:09 GMT -5
Okay we know that this forum is a good way to discuss and give opinions, in light of the ending that has a few of us wondering 'what were they thinking'? My question is this...How do you think is the way to handle this situation in the next episode? What would you want to see when it comes to this situation? I have always had an open mind about a lot of things... I was raised in the age when children were spanked and punished in a manor that in today's standard would be called abuse.So I know how far we've come. I seen here with this discussion people's tolerance is different from others..SO I truly want to know how YOU would fix this situation if you were writing the next episode or two and what you think the writers will do with Catherine and her character cause of it? I am intrigued by the prospect of future episodes dealing with that shove's aftermath. I want Cat to stop being so needy and stalkerish and just leave vincent alone and let him come to her, begging and grovelling for her forgiveness. And she can't give in too quickly either because trust takes a long time to get back and i want ger to really take her time in getting to know the new vincent. More JT, Tess and Gabe scenes would be nice too.
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Post by sweetrosie29 on Oct 17, 2013 2:01:03 GMT -5
For md the sex scene worked really well because it set things up for later when they were on the roof and Vincent's comment about only having one night the hurt look on Cat's face :'(especvially after he did such a sweet Vincent thing by putting the note on her door that simply said ' roof' the look on her face was heart wrencing and then tellling him that she gave up everything to find him and be with him just for Vince to beadt out tell her he did'nt remember her then push her away that was thd breaking point for Cat.
So no i agree they shouldnt be having sex for a while and i'm fine with that trust needs to be put back in place.
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 17, 2013 2:04:13 GMT -5
I guess I can understand the point about applying real world expectations into a fictional character and not taking it that serious. But I just don't see how Vincent decking Cat with a violent outburst furthers the show in any meaningful way. It's just not cool....now matter how you look at it. If they're going to go down this path (or similar) I see big problems on the horizon for the show. And they already have enough problems considering the ratings. Maybe this is what they meant by an "achingly romantic narrative in season two?" Cat's sore butt? The sex scene is completely out of place and I feel it was included just to check off a box so the producers could continue on, and also to appease some viewers. Somebody tell me the producers of this show know what they're doing......Please! I don't think the sex scene was out of place. Catherine loves him and she thought that having sex with him would help triggering his feelings for her too. We, woman, tend to think that love and sex come together. Ok, we know it's not always like that, but in this case I really think that Catherine was trying to connect with him to the most basic level. She told JT at the beginning of the episode. They tried with rational memories before and it didn't work so let's try through the emotional connection, and their physical attraction is as strong as their love (or because of their love), so she was desperately trying to reach him through a good session of sex! On the other hand, who could resist the chemistry they have?
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 17, 2013 2:09:59 GMT -5
I have been observing that there are comments about the final scene of episode 202. THE SHOVE I do not understand what is the problem (maybe is how people assimilates the escene).. in the sense that only saw a angry beast .. do not know how it compares to a beast is violent with a human being as if it were two human beings .. that's totally different. The writers had somehow prove that Vincent has no memory and is dangerous even for Catherine. Now that some fans did not approve the beast shove Cat by the "EPIC bond" that should they have.. is another theme This does not say that I approve of gender violence ... in case you did not understand my comment. But I think that encourage this kind of thought (that they have every right to do so), the series could be affected en ratings EVEN more ! Dayabeast, I so much agree with you! I was wondering why are people so UPSET with this scene that they can not let it go! And I'm starting to think that it's not so much about the physical damage but because in their brains that EPIC BOND has been broken and they feel somehow betrayed. I think this hate and short-sight to this scene is more due to the loss of that epic bond than the push itself
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 2:37:54 GMT -5
Okay, I'm gonna go against the flow here a little bit... I know we're all supposed to be shocked that he hurt her. And I like the idea that he's super-dangerous to everyone EXCEPT Catherine, because of the bond, etc, etc. And I get that it's a blow to her implicit trust in him. However. First - she did not sustain any injuries that they showed us. No limping, bruising, blood trickling, not even scraped up hands from falling on the rough surface of the roof. She didn't even need a Care Bears bandaid, y'know? Second - Vincent has NO idea what he's doing, relationship-wise. He knows he's drawn to her, and boy, kissing her feels good, but he has no personal memories of her or *any* woman, and he's been programmed to avoid entanglements. He's meant to make war, not love. He said he's "not supposed to do this". I wouldn't be surprised if bio-dad slipped in a few extra instructions about staying away from Cat. He has a mission that he clearly believes in (and I tend to trust him on that) and let's face it, Cat has screwed things up for him several times in a row. Despite all that, he's still trying to connect with her. And protect her. Third - Cat's constant "do you remember, do you remember" questions make it seem like she's so focused on finding Old Vincent that she can't even see New Vincent. Ever been attracted to someone who doesn't know you exist? That's frustrating - especially if you don't realize it until after you slept with them. Fourth - He reacts so much more strongly to Cat than he does to anyone else. Most of the time, he's cool, collected, business-like even when he's beasted out. Cat rattles him, makes him feel things. He's conflicted, confused and frustrated. Fifth - Our Cat does have certain tendencies in common with pit bulls. She's determined to figure him out, to rescue him, to bring him back (no matter what he might think about it), and she just keeps pushing his buttons. She was wandering into Overly Attached Girlfriend territory, too. Put all that together and you get a very volatile mix. I'm not really surprised that he snapped for a half-second. Was it wrong? Yes. He should feel awful, and I suspect he does. Does he need to grovel? Maybe. Is it unforgivable? Not at all. exactly!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 2:48:31 GMT -5
I am VERY curious as to the aftermath of this episode! Yes, it was a phenom epi until the last scene. Absolutely fantastic, actually. Vincent 2.0 is sexy, confused, and a completely HOT MESS! Too bad the last scent wasn't different. The point the writers were trying to make could have been handled differently with the same effect. Anyway, how the writer's have Catherine handle this will be extremely important. If Catherine accepts Vincent's "push" what else will she accept? Truly, let's ask...."WHO IS SHE?" and more importantly, "WHO IS VINCENT?" I don't want them to allow his actions to be acceptable. Even though Catherine was wrong in "needling" Vincent and continually pushing his buttons, there is no excuse for his behavior. Be a "man" and walk away; that is the point, I guess, the writer's are telling us that Vincent is more "beast" than "man." Yet, if Vincent had "beasted out" on Catherine, I could forgive him; but he pushed her...a HUMAN act, not a "beastly" one.In a perfect world, Catherine would run and never look back. She would never trust Vincent again, and never try to re-kindle the relationship on any level. She would be confident enough in herself to walk away and truly "never turn back." Once it starts (the pushing, the shoving, the yelling, the ABUSE) it only gets worse (yes, I have been there). Yet, I know, that today's women are more free-thinking and also more tolerant of behavior that in the past was deemed "unacceptable." The writers must have something spectacular in mind to rectify this situation. As it stands, I can't think of anything that could/would fix this. I only hope they find a way. Until then (and I hope they move quickly), the "epic" love and fairy-tale romance is over; reality has set in. (Honestly, I am not so interested in the ugly "reality" of Vincent's abuse -- yes, face it-- it was abuse and wrong..no excuses no matter how "sorry" he felt!) (After the last scene, I almost hoped Catherine would hook up with .... ugh, OMG! No!... Gabe! LOL!) Okay shoot me for what I'm going to say BUT..What's wrong with Gabe? Honestly I think Vincent has done worse with Catherine then Gabe has to her. Don't you think? I mean Gabe did throw her around in NTB but in his defense at that time Gabe truly had no control of his Beast side so in that sense I am sure that until Catherine relayed to him what he had done as a beast Gabe had no recollection of what he and done. As Vincent does know what he does in Beast mode. I said from the beginning that I like Gabe..Do I trust him no? But now we go back to Vincent, do I trust hm now after the end of the episode? NO So I wouldn't mind seeing Gabe try to at least hook up with Catherine. LOL he can try all he wants lol but if catherine ever considers somebody else - which from spoilers we know she will - that better not be gabe i mean he is good looking but compared to vincent no no no no. and his voice, the opposite of vincents voice, not sexy at all! if catherine considers sb else it better be somebody that gives vincent a run for this money lol
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 2:52:55 GMT -5
As it stands right now, Catherine would be better off -- that is emotionally. Physically...well...I might have to take a little abuse and stick with Vincent! I think the problem is the 'trust' issue...There was never a doubt until the end of this episode that Vincent could and would possibly hurt Catherine physically..Something that never truly crossed her mind and ours! the next episode (based on description) is them not trusting each other, so trust gone fourth episode is vincent intiially being a bit of an ass and then realising that actually jt and catherine are on his side (read this somewhere, austin said it i think?), at which point vincent now trusts catherine - not sure when she regains her trust so basically yes they have to rebuild their relatonship including their trust for each other, which does make sense considering vincent has changed and considering he doesnt remember catherine. i am ok with that
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 17, 2013 3:00:40 GMT -5
Okay we know that this forum is a good way to discuss and give opinions, in light of the ending that has a few of us wondering 'what were they thinking'? My question is this...How do you think is the way to handle this situation in the next episode? What would you want to see when it comes to this situation? I have always had an open mind about a lot of things... I was raised in the age when children were spanked and punished in a manor that in today's standard would be called abuse.So I know how far we've come. I seen here with this discussion people's tolerance is different from others..SO I truly want to know how YOU would fix this situation if you were writing the next episode or two and what you think the writers will do with Catherine and her character cause of it? good question!! well, clearly catherine will need to NOT be ok wth this, she will need to start questioning vincent and his motives because I would if somebody I loved pushed me like that. i mean if sb i loved and in their right senses pushed me like that i would probably find it very difficult to forgive them, i would be a bit more understanding if sb like vincent did this to me (not because he is super hot lol, ok maybe a little bit) because he does not remember me and is fully brainswashed. still i would not forgive them easily, i would need to truly know they have regretted their action and be confident they would not do it again. so - catherine needs to show she is upset, not give in first time he says sorry, stick to her guns. vincent needs to be truly sorry about his actions, and show it to her as much as possible. however, what we also need to see is that he fully trusts catherine himself, before she actually forgives him. if she forgives him before she (and we) know he fully trusts her (rather than is just sorry for his actions) as a viewer i dont know if i would be convinced that he deserves her forgiveness. does that make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 3:05:05 GMT -5
This is my post regarding the final VinCat scene. I posted this on the BATB facebook page after reading comments about people wanting to boycott the show because of what the Beast did to Catherine. Before people give up on the show please remember one thing. Vincent 2.0 is NOT the Vincent we saw in season 1. His memory has been wiped clean, he has been reprogrammed to become an assassin, a BEAST in all meaning. But our old Vincent from season 1 is in there somewhere. Remember him? The guy who helped and saved people, who felt guilty for all the terrible and horrible things he did, who loved Catherine with every fiber of his being. Season 2 Vincent isn't him. This 'new' guy is a trained soldier and assassin who doesn't recognize Catherine, doesn't know the love he has for her. The beast that shoved Catherine is that. A BEAST! An animal. Not a human. Doesn't know 'control'. I can't begin to imagine what Vincent will feel once he regains his memories and realizes what his beast side did to Catherine. Beauty and the Beast is a story about two people who are flawed. Beauty is able to see beneath the Beast and see his true heart and vice versa. And this was my post here after watching the episode just in case you missed it Just watched the episode. Loved it! Reminded me why Beauty and the Beast was my favourite Disney cartoon growing up. And the first thing I thought of after watching the final VinCat scene was a quote from that Disney movie: 'For who could ever learn to love a beast' The story 'Beauty and the Beast' isn't about a girl and beast who meet and fall in love at first sight. It's about a girl who meets a terrifying beast who doesn't treat her well at first but has a good heart within. Her warm and caring nature eventually allows his true self to emerge. On the other hand, what draws Beauty to the Beast is her ability to see deep beneath his flaws and anger and discover the beauty and true heart that lies within! This episode IMO is the reason I started watching BATB in the first place. Yes he did shove Catherine while he was a Beast but you should see his reaction straight after he did. He was shocked, confused and angry at himself all at once and apologised. Even though he has been reprogrammed and has been subjected to hundreds of experiments, he is still able to reach out and feel remorse. Regarding the final VinCat scene, I think that Vincent's action is going to be the catalyst that will propel him towards self-discovery and the question of 'Who Am I?' - Man or Beast?. As soon as Catherine tells him 'I don't remember you ever doing that', he apologises and leaves. I think those words hit him hard. He is going to go and think about what he has done and what he has become. There will be conflict and struggle between his beast side and human side. We know that he feels remorse, hence the flowers during the next ep and the fire escape scene where he seems to be apologising. I mean Vincent came back to spend time with Catherine. He didn't push her away and even asked that they have a picnic soon. It seems that V has been reprogrammed to vehemently avoid answering any questions regarding his missions. We saw that during episode 1 with the JT and Vincent scene and today during the VinCat rooftop scene.
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 17, 2013 3:10:25 GMT -5
Okay we know that this forum is a good way to discuss and give opinions, in light of the ending that has a few of us wondering 'what were they thinking'? My question is this...How do you think is the way to handle this situation in the next episode? What would you want to see when it comes to this situation? I have always had an open mind about a lot of things... I was raised in the age when children were spanked and punished in a manor that in today's standard would be called abuse.So I know how far we've come. I seen here with this discussion people's tolerance is different from others..SO I truly want to know how YOU would fix this situation if you were writing the next episode or two and what you think the writers will do with Catherine and her character cause of it? good question!! well, clearly catherine will need to NOT be ok wth this, she will need to start questioning vincent and his motives because I would if somebody I loved pushed me like that. i mean if sb i loved and in their right senses pushed me like that i would probably find it very difficult to forgive them, i would be a bit more understanding if sb like vincent did this to me (not because he is super hot lol, ok maybe a little bit) because he does not remember me and is fully brainswashed. still i would not forgive them easily, i would need to truly know they have regretted their action and be confident they would not do it again. so - catherine needs to show she is upset, not give in first time he says sorry, stick to her guns. vincent needs to be truly sorry about his actions, and show it to her as much as possible. however, what we also need to see is that he fully trusts catherine himself, before she actually forgives him. if she forgives him before she (and we) know he fully trusts her (rather than is just sorry for his actions) as a viewer i dont know if i would be convinced that he deserves her forgiveness. does that make sense? Anapi, for me it makes complete sense. Only when Vincent trusts her there will be no danger that he can react like he did last ep. So, from that moment and when he proofs to her in different situations that, no matter how beastly he is and how much she pushes him (figuratively speaking) he will not physically react over her, then SHE will start trusting him again. I also think that with this wake-up call, Catherine is forced to look to the REAL Vincent, I mean, the current one. So hopefully she will also understand that he is different now and, instead of trying to bring back the old Vincent, she has to know this new one. I heard Sherri/Jennifer say that they were going to show more what made Catherine realize that she liked Vincent in Season 1 so I guess that it will be those common points between Vincent 1.0 and 2.0 which will make the difference and make Catherine fall in love all over again with Vincent 2.0 (after he also recovers his humanity - not necessarily memories yet-, of course!)
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Post by feezya on Oct 17, 2013 5:09:46 GMT -5
Sing it, sister. Enough of this over-reacting to what was basically a forceful shove. If he had gutted her, slashed her face, or punched her out; yeah, I can see the hand wringing, but in this instance? Not so much. More accurately, not at all. LOL! I get why being upset over the last scent is 'over reacting.' It does seem like making 'mountains out of mole hills.' The probelm is, though, that a huge premise of the show was the trust they had in each other. Catherine trusted that Vincent 'would never hurt her.' The other part that is so upsetting, and I do "get" that people think differently these days, is that pushing/shoving a woman is never acceptable. You say it is no big deal....yet, if it happened to you (the way it was done to Catherine and/or in a more realistic sense, victims of abuse) do you think you would feel the same? putting myself in her show, yes this is definitely NOT ACCEPTABLE. but seems like this whole issue has gone so out of proportion that some of the fans are already bailing on the series right after episode 2???!!! At least give the show a chance to see how everything will turn out in the end. Give the show a chance to show us how everyone finds out WHO they really are (after all this season is about "who am i" for most of the characters). This is WHAT i don't understand, bailing out prematurely. There were comments during season 1 that the writers used the word EPIC so many times even when it's just blah. But season 2 has really changed for the better IMO, so who knows... maybe they did perfected the term EPIC, which they will show throughout this new season
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