hopefulromantic
Army Recruit
BATB- A romance novel in a TV show form... What's not to love?
Posts: 114
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Post by hopefulromantic on Jul 1, 2014 17:43:47 GMT -5
Of course not offended! Differing opinions are AWESOME! And all of the male perspectives are very valuable in this forum.
And I never said it didn't bother Vincent. Quite the opposite actually. Also, there was no tongue kiss. "Peck" means closed lips and I don't even think Catherine's moved. And no, tongue kissing is not epic.
I get what your saying... and admit I was taking liberties with the "tongue kissing" thing... I know it didn't happen. I'm just trying to give you a perceptive of where Vincent's mind went, because it did!lol From my woman's viewpoint, I saw all of Vincent's behavior and his comments about "how many bases will be involved", "Gabe's 'first hand'", and Catherine allowing Gabe to kiss her very amusing. I didn't think of how men might take seeing those scenes/hearing those lines differently. In Vincent's position, I'm positive that my husband would feel the same way as you and Vincent.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 1, 2014 17:46:07 GMT -5
I get what your saying... and admit I was taking liberties with the "tongue kissing" thing... I know it didn't happen. I'm just trying to give you a perceptive of where Vincent's mind went, because it did!lol From my woman's viewpoint, I saw all of Vincent's behavior and his comments about "how many bases will be involved", "Gabe's 'first hand'", and Catherine allowing Gabe to kiss her very amusing. I didn't think of how men might take seeing those scenes/hearing those lines differently. In Vincent's position, I'm positive that my husband would feel the same way as you and Vincent. Same here..coming from a woman who's husband until this day is still gets jealous. So i know jealousy
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shoe20
Army Recruit
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Post by shoe20 on Jul 1, 2014 18:00:27 GMT -5
Here it is Gabe is done!!!! Too soon for my preferences, I know i bought up the kiss which is no difference to the SL... I still stand behind the fact no kiss would have been better. VinCat is solid and taking on all comers... as preferences by Cat's motive to protect Vincent. (SHE REALLY KICKED ASS) I would expect nothing less.....she's all in.
Cat is commited as is Vincent to their love. That's independent of of Cat's or Vinc's life that' came before...simple..., easy. There was never a question of the depth of their love....... simply a question of why she allowed the kiss. I still don't get it, when she had options?
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 1, 2014 18:53:03 GMT -5
After my 3rd time watching this ep (which, by the way, I LOVED), I have some questions that maybe have already been asked and answered, but I would really appreciate some input because sometimes I get lost in translation... - Where did Gabe get the serum from if he is not related to those guys? - Was Vincent hearing the agents' heartbeats when they got in his cell and said agent Knox was sending them? Meaning, did he feel that they were saying the truth? - Also, did they let him free because he was going to kill Gabe and that was one of their goals? - And finally, although this is not a question-question... What if Cat's fate is, as Gabe said, killing a beast but that beast is actually Gabe?? Mmmm!! By the way, I am staying spoiler free... and I am loving it! Good questions. IIRC, Gabe got the serum from the batch that Sam had. But those episodes were so long ago I'm a little foggy on which ep it happened. I can't answer the other questions, I had the same questions too. But your last one about Cat's fate definitely makes one think "hmmmmmm...."
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 1, 2014 20:07:35 GMT -5
Here it is Gabe is done!!!! Too soon for my preferences, I know i bought up the kiss which is no difference to the SL... I still stand behind the fact no kiss would have been better. VinCat is solid and taking on all comers... as preferences by Cat's motive to protect Vincent. (SHE REALLY KICKED ASS) I would expect nothing less.....she's all in. Cat is commited as is Vincent to their love. That's independent of of Cat's or Vinc's life that' came before...simple..., easy. There was never a question of the depth of their love....... simply a question of why she allowed the kiss. I still don't get it, when she had options? I totally get you..I think they wanted to PUSH not the relationship factor at us but the FACT that Gabe believed he still had a shot with her. ANd that IF she refused to allow the kiss he wouldn't take her deal of giving them a try a REAL shot! My point : Remember Ancestors? (Worst episode for me LOL) when Catherine kissed the cute guy at the bar? Why did she do it? She told Vincent later that it was that she didn't want to blow her cover BUT in her subconscious mind she did it to get back at him LOL ..But she was undercover and if she had to do it even though Vincent wasn't there she had no choice. If the idea of making Gabe truly believe she was serious about giving him a chance if Gabe approached her with the kiss .. She had no choice but let him. That's the way I saw it. LOL Did I mention I loathe Ancestors ?? Totally OUT of character for both of them
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Post by beastinthehouse on Jul 1, 2014 20:34:29 GMT -5
I get what your saying... and admit I was taking liberties with the "tongue kissing" thing... I know it didn't happen. I'm just trying to give you a perceptive of where Vincent's mind went, because it did!lol From my woman's viewpoint, I saw all of Vincent's behavior and his comments about "how many bases will be involved", "Gabe's 'first hand'", and Catherine allowing Gabe to kiss her very amusing. I didn't think of how men might take seeing those scenes/hearing those lines differently. In Vincent's position, I'm positive that my husband would feel the same way as you and Vincent. Imagine that. A guy feeling jealous or upset about his girl kissing and tounging another guy no matter the situation. Who would have thought?
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shoe20
Army Recruit
Posts: 164
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Post by shoe20 on Jul 1, 2014 20:41:24 GMT -5
Here it is Gabe is done!!!! Too soon for my preferences, I know i bought up the kiss which is no difference to the SL... I still stand behind the fact no kiss would have been better. VinCat is solid and taking on all comers... as preferences by Cat's motive to protect Vincent. (SHE REALLY KICKED ASS) I would expect nothing less.....she's all in. Cat is commited as is Vincent to their love. That's independent of of Cat's or Vinc's life that' came before...simple..., easy. There was never a question of the depth of their love....... simply a question of why she allowed the kiss. I still don't get it, when she had options? I totally get you..I think they wanted to PUSH not the relationship factor at us but the FACT that Gabe believed he still had a shot with her. ANd that IF she refused to allow the kiss he wouldn't take her deal of giving them a try a REAL shot! My point : Remember Ancestors? (Worst episode for me LOL) when Catherine kissed the cute guy at the bar? Why did she do it? She told Vincent later that it was that she didn't want to blow her cover BUT in her subconscious mind she did it to get back at him LOL ..But she was undercover and if she had to do it even though Vincent wasn't there she had no choice. If the idea of making Gabe truly believe she was serious about giving him a chance if Gabe approached her with the kiss .. She had no choice but let him. That's the way I saw it. LOL Did I mention I loathe Ancestors ?? Totally OUT of character for both of them Yes, I totally remember Ancestor's and what got us there and with that as a base 2x21 ,makes senses, the problem is we've moved well past that point in the VinCat relationship...I see no reason for Cat to allow a kiss, with her present knowledge it was more than a simple thing. (puke)it was repulsive. It was her sister that got kidnapped, and her lover that had his life threatened. Not acceptable on any level, much less suck face. Sry! How hard would it have been for her to extend her headache to the kiss? Simple avoidance, and not something Gabe could have come back on her for. IMO She'd already executed her date parameters. Just ME I think the kiss happened because the writers took one last shot at making Gabe/Cat something that had leggs. Hey, girls, if you have a guy that's OK with some one else poaching your charms, you have a pimp not a lover......Just saying.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 1, 2014 23:28:28 GMT -5
About the peck... I can not say I didn't notice it, cause I did and it actually surprised me... I didn't expect that Gabe would go for it or Cat would allow it. I get that she wanted to make this fake date "perfect" so Gabe didn't suspect a bit. She seemed a bit uncomfortable when it happened but still allowed it and somehow "returned" the peck. I totally understand that V feels bad about it. When you love someone you don't want that one having any kind of physical/sexual contact with anyone else. Especially if that someone is evil, has tried to kill you several times, has kidnapped your girlfriend's sister, and is former boyfriend of your girlfriend (this one is also very important!! what if V had doubts about the reasons of C to allow that kiss?) On the other hand, I also understand the question someone posted today: why is V so concerned when he kissed Tori and C witnessed? Hypocresy... Well, objectively speaking it wouldn't be fair that he feels concerned when he did the same before but I see it more as "poetic justice"... Now he knows how C felt when he kissed Tori. Still, and I don't want to open the can of warms again, PLEASE! but... still the V and T kiss was much "longer and deeper" (UNFORTUNATELY ) than the G and C peck... Ah, but you did. I'm not getting too worked up about the kiss, but I am tired of the Vincent kissed Tori excuse to justify Cat letting Gabe kiss her in this instance. There is no comparison, the circumstances and situations are completely different and to pretend otherwise is ingenuous.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 1, 2014 23:32:17 GMT -5
By the way, I am staying spoiler free... and I am loving it! It's the only way to roll, IMO.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 1, 2014 23:33:56 GMT -5
"The Kiss"
1. Catherine was slightly startled when Gabe kissed her, but knew she needed to keep up the pretense to make the whole fake date scheme work. It might have thrown him off if she'd pulled back, considering how far their relationship had gone when they were together.
2. She didn't try to hide any of it from Vincent. She told them everything, showing again how it didn't mean anything to her, other than her concern for how Vincent would take it.
3. Actually, I found it quite adorable how crazy all of it was making Vincent. He was so fixated on Gabe making moves or hurting his woman that it became humorous rather than horrific. His facial expressions, pacing, smashing screens, blurring across the room, and generally making JT, Tess and Heather crazy were great.
4. The kiss between V/T and C/G can't even fairly be compared. Apples and oranges. Plus, from what I remember, Catherine never seemed bothered or threatened by it anyway. She figured it out rather quickly that T had an effect on V and chalked it up to that. She was jealous deep down by V and T's connection, but the kiss never seemed relevant.
5. The audience seemed more upset by the peck than the participants did. Of course, Gabe thought he was doing pretty well, that he was making progress with her and Catherine was accepting him, with the kiss backing it up. We know better, right?
6. I'm way more interested in kisses between Catherine and Vincent. I agree, but I don't think it meant nothing to Vincent, (it wouldn't have for me) It's about trust, and the kiss can't help but shake it......look at me I'm getting feminine on this. LOL Vinc is very understanding or he's repressing problems. only two options. My question is why did the show runner feel it was necessary? lol Deserves an encore.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 1, 2014 23:36:36 GMT -5
Speaking to the choir lol I never saw anything wrong with the kiss I was just explaining why Catherine allowed him to kiss her. AND for those that weren't there when the whole Tori kiss...That never bothered me.Tori was never an issue with me. I didn't feel it either when she kissed Vincent. The funny thing was that he's jealous and aside from worrying cause Gabe might do something to her in the back of his mind his worry was more of how many bases she would go with him lol. Jealous boyfriend cuteness The way he only mentioned the kiss confirmed just that. I get what your saying and understand, but at some point we have to decide what is epic. tongue kissing others is not an indication of epic love, but maybe that's just me. lol Clarify please. Not sure what you're talking about.
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Post by Bill the beast on Jul 2, 2014 0:47:07 GMT -5
It is not necessary for me to compare kissing scenes, etc., to be disturbed by the "fake date" and I've been toying with the idea that perhaps we are supposed to feel uncomfortable about this aspect of Catherine.
The kiss seemed like no more than a "peck" and it even looked a little like Gabe came from the side - a peck on the side of the mouth - giving no more intimacy than kissing your Aunt Daisy. Still, the date and the kiss were SOME degree of intimacy. Catherine was laughing and enjoying the cake decorating. Gabe was certainly justified in thinking some minimal connection had been formed.
But, on the other hand, ALL of Gabe and Catherine's kisses were tepid. ALL of Catherine's "feelings" for Gabe were completely unbelievable. So the real question is: why wasn't Catherine totally creeped out by Gabe, now and in the past?
When Gabe leaned in for a kiss, why didn't she back-pedal like Sugar Ray? She certainly knows he choked the life out of two guys - while he was a man not a Beast. She knows he (Gabe, the man) was willing to dissect Vincent to find his own cure. And she knows the "kidnap Heather" plot was just a man being obsessed, jealous and power-mad. (She might actually be relieved to find out Gabe is now a simple Beast again) (just kidding).
Lately, I've been ragging on Catherine for over-intellectualizing, wading in denial, repressing her feelings, etc. (I'm sorry Cat; you know it's because I love you). I've questioned whether or not she ever had anything like romantic feelings for Gabe. And although she did (and does) for Vincent (all the way from the Pilot, I believe), I've questioned how she got back together with V. All the way through 2x16 she tells anyone who will listen, "I'm with Gabe, I'm with Gabe". Then on the rooftop as Vincent tries to save Sam, she hears him voice the thoughts she believes in - and she's back in love with him again. So the intellectual approach works for her. She's not comfortable with listening to her gut and is not about to try it. She's going to be out of touch with her feelings and intellectualize everything.
(I know, I know - she was already in love with Vincent all along. I'm just talking about what it takes to break through her denial)
So I think this is just the Catherine Chandler we have at this point. It's no use in wishing for another. Might as well say to poor Heather at the end: "Don't be traumatized! Shake it off, girl." Life is messy that way. You just can't shake off feelings and if you try, then you never hear the voice of your instincts, your guts, your love.
Both Catherine and Vincent have been twisted by their fear of being "out of control". This was the metaphorical "Beast within" and it has nothing to do with transgenic DNA. Vincent has come a long, long way from the days when he huddled in the shadows, afraid of feeling any strong emotion. But Catherine is still in the dark.
This episode Vincent gently points out that she is unable to express her own anger. He doesn't go on to say that's because she completely denies it. And he's not about to say: if you do that, you are always on the edge of control.
Although she may have a way to go, it looks like Vincent can be a wise and gentle guide. I had hoped to see some growth by the season finale but there is no time left; so much was wasted. That will be a journey for another season.
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Jul 2, 2014 1:24:57 GMT -5
About the peck... I can not say I didn't notice it, cause I did and it actually surprised me... I didn't expect that Gabe would go for it or Cat would allow it. I get that she wanted to make this fake date "perfect" so Gabe didn't suspect a bit. She seemed a bit uncomfortable when it happened but still allowed it and somehow "returned" the peck. I totally understand that V feels bad about it. When you love someone you don't want that one having any kind of physical/sexual contact with anyone else. Especially if that someone is evil, has tried to kill you several times, has kidnapped your girlfriend's sister, and is former boyfriend of your girlfriend (this one is also very important!! what if V had doubts about the reasons of C to allow that kiss?) On the other hand, I also understand the question someone posted today: why is V so concerned when he kissed Tori and C witnessed? Hypocresy... Well, objectively speaking it wouldn't be fair that he feels concerned when he did the same before but I see it more as "poetic justice"... Now he knows how C felt when he kissed Tori. Still, and I don't want to open the can of warms again, PLEASE! but... still the V and T kiss was much "longer and deeper" (UNFORTUNATELY ) than the G and C peck... Ah, but you did. I'm not getting too worked up about the kiss, but I am tired of the Vincent kissed Tori excuse to justify Cat letting Gabe kiss her in this instance. There is no comparison, the circumstances and situations are completely different and to pretend otherwise is ingenuous. As I said before, I was just "quoting" someone else who brought up the issue. I don't think both situations are comparable or one justifies the other It simply happened, and IMO, it's not such a big deal (the peck)
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Jul 2, 2014 1:32:10 GMT -5
I totally get you..I think they wanted to PUSH not the relationship factor at us but the FACT that Gabe believed he still had a shot with her. ANd that IF she refused to allow the kiss he wouldn't take her deal of giving them a try a REAL shot! My point : Remember Ancestors? (Worst episode for me LOL) when Catherine kissed the cute guy at the bar? Why did she do it? She told Vincent later that it was that she didn't want to blow her cover BUT in her subconscious mind she did it to get back at him LOL ..But she was undercover and if she had to do it even though Vincent wasn't there she had no choice. If the idea of making Gabe truly believe she was serious about giving him a chance if Gabe approached her with the kiss .. She had no choice but let him. That's the way I saw it. LOL Did I mention I loathe Ancestors ?? Totally OUT of character for both of them Yes, I totally remember Ancestor's and what got us there and with that as a base 2x21 ,makes senses, the problem is we've moved well past that point in the VinCat relationship...I see no reason for Cat to allow a kiss, with her present knowledge it was more than a simple thing. (puke)it was repulsive. It was her sister that got kidnapped, and her lover that had his life threatened. Not acceptable on any level, much less suck face. Sry! How hard would it have been for her to extend her headache to the kiss? Simple avoidance, and not something Gabe could have come back on her for. IMO She'd already executed her date parameters. Just ME I think the kiss happened because the writers took one last shot at making Gabe/Cat something that had leggs. Hey, girls, if you have a guy that's OK with some one else poaching your charms, you have a pimp not a lover......Just saying. Totally agree! and it isn't different the other way around. I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing my hubby give "a peck" to anyone else! leave an ex!
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Post by Laura on Jul 2, 2014 1:55:52 GMT -5
It is not necessary for me to compare kissing scenes, etc., to be disturbed by the "fake date" and I've been toying with the idea that perhaps we are supposed to feel uncomfortable about this aspect of Catherine. The kiss seemed like no more than a "peck" and it even looked a little like Gabe came from the side - a peck on the side of the mouth - giving no more intimacy than kissing your Aunt Daisy. Still, the date and the kiss were SOME degree of intimacy. Catherine was laughing and enjoying the cake decorating. Gabe was certainly justified in thinking some minimal connection had been formed. But, on the other hand, ALL of Gabe and Catherine's kisses were tepid. ALL of Catherine's "feelings" for Gabe were completely unbelievable. So the real question is: why wasn't Catherine totally creeped out by Gabe, now and in the past? When Gabe leaned in for a kiss, why didn't she back-pedal like Sugar Ray? She certainly knows he choked the life out of two guys - while he was a man not a Beast. She knows he (Gabe, the man) was willing to dissect Vincent to find his own cure. And she knows the "kidnap Heather" plot was just a man being obsessed, jealous and power-mad. (She might actually be relieved to find out Gabe is now a simple Beast again) (just kidding). Lately, I've been ragging on Catherine for over-intellectualizing, wading in denial, repressing her feelings, etc. (I'm sorry Cat; you know it's because I love you). I've questioned whether or not she ever had anything like romantic feelings for Gabe. And although she did (and does) for Vincent (all the way from the Pilot, I believe), I've questioned how she got back together with V. All the way through 2x16 she tells anyone who will listen, "I'm with Gabe, I'm with Gabe". Then on the rooftop as Vincent tries to save Sam, she hears him voice the thoughts she believes in - and she's back in love with him again. So the intellectual approach works for her. She's not comfortable with listening to her gut and is not about to try it. She's going to be out of touch with her feelings and intellectualize everything. (I know, I know - she was already in love with Vincent all along. I'm just talking about what it takes to break through her denial) So I think this is just the Catherine Chandler we have at this point. It's no use in wishing for another. Might as well say to poor Heather at the end: "Don't be traumatized! Shake it off, girl." Life is messy that way. You just can't shake off feelings and if you try, then you never hear the voice of your instincts, your guts, your love. Both Catherine and Vincent have been twisted by their fear of being "out of control". This was the metaphorical "Beast within" and it has nothing to do with transgenic DNA. Vincent has come a long, long way from the days when he huddled in the shadows, afraid of feeling any strong emotion. But Catherine is still in the dark. This episode Vincent gently points out that she is unable to express her own anger. He doesn't go on to say that's because she completely denies it. And he's not about to say: if you do that, you are always on the edge of control. Although she may have a way to go, it looks like Vincent can be a wise and gentle guide. I had hoped to see some growth by the season finale but there is no time left; so much was wasted. That will be a journey for another season. Interesting post
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