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Post by DayaBEASTS4 on Jul 16, 2015 20:27:14 GMT -5
It was a very emotional episode and very good!! this episode owned my heart I like everything... I love Vincent's face when he realizes the cop is a stripper Totally loved all Heather/Cat scenes.. Finally Cat tell Heather what her mom did, and the video before she die!! Is to die for.. I loved Kristin's acting in all her scenes
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 16, 2015 20:27:44 GMT -5
I absolutely teared up badly when she watched Vanessa's tape! Kristin's performance was outstanding tonight! Nicole was wonderful!
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 16, 2015 20:50:30 GMT -5
Finally!! Stripper scene was not too bad!! Glad that is over. Loved "Aunt Claire" fainted...kinda cute. Loved Heather's sweater. Cat is more and more irritated with the Aunt's mentions of her mother. I am glad they introduced this family dynamic with Cat. Wow, so they have a supercharged human epidemic?? Interesting development. OMG............Kristin anger scene at the shower was full of controlled rage. I really haven't scene that since Smallville. Bravo Kristin! JT has "Proto-Beast DNA" just like Vincent........now they are "blood Brothers"!! Nice touch. Poor Vincent, his cousin (? missed the first few minutes) is a jerk. Very sad Vincent has no family to be close to. I really liked Cat's racing her car shots........very cool. Oh No.........the messenger took pics of Vincent and Cat......now whoever Big Baddie is, knows who they are. What did you think of the EMOTIONAL scene while watching her mom? LOL VinCat❤Destined,........sorry, I had to wash the dishes and was typing the rest of my review and posted to my only post. Wasn't sure if anyone was going to post much so I just added to it. So, I will just repost it for you
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 16, 2015 20:59:16 GMT -5
What did you think of the EMOTIONAL scene while watching her mom? LOL VinCat❤Destined,........sorry, I had to wash the dishes and was typing the rest of my review and posted to my only post. Wasn't sure if anyone was going to post much so I just added to it. So, I will just repost it for you Yes, the tape just clarified Vanessa's love for Cat and her realization that Vanessa made the tape before coming to help and was killed. Remember that was a pretty filled box! Let's see what else might be in there. I would like to believe Bob was referring to not only the tape but something else since he knows Cat will if not now later look through that box for more glimpses into her Mother's life. If not her, you know that if that is provided to Heather she will find something more! She is very good at finding things like when she tracked Cat's phone and found her with Vincent by remembering their cat's name, Milo!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 16, 2015 20:59:59 GMT -5
Catherine sees her mom's video
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 16, 2015 21:05:00 GMT -5
Okay I will be adding a few more scenes, for all the newbies of the forum, these clips are made by me and are solely for the forum and the members. Please don't share this on social media or anywhere outside this forum. THANK YOU! A few more to come
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 16, 2015 21:08:54 GMT -5
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 16, 2015 21:19:50 GMT -5
Yes, the tape just clarified Vanessa's love for Cat and her realization that Vanessa made the tape before coming to help and was killed. Remember that was a pretty filled box! Let's see what else might be in there. I would like to believe Bob was referring to not only the tape but something else since he knows Cat will if not now later look through that box for more glimpses into her Mother's life. If not her, you know that if that is provided to Heather she will find something more! She is very good at finding things like when she tracked Cat's phone and found her with Vincent by remembering their cat's name, Milo! Good Points. Maybe there is something else in that box. Or.........maybe Heather will be pivotal in the storyline somewhere. That would be great actually. I must say, Heather has the C-U-T-E-S-T outfits. I mean just adorable. I kind of wish that Cat and Vincent had sent that memory lantern up in the air for Vanessa. It would be a nice gesture for both of them to do together since Vanessa was involved with both of them. But of course the Big Baddie would have to come after. Next week is going to be exciting.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 16, 2015 21:27:47 GMT -5
Yes, the tape just clarified Vanessa's love for Cat and her realization that Vanessa made the tape before coming to help and was killed. Remember that was a pretty filled box! Let's see what else might be in there. I would like to believe Bob was referring to not only the tape but something else since he knows Cat will if not now later look through that box for more glimpses into her Mother's life. If not her, you know that if that is provided to Heather she will find something more! She is very good at finding things like when she tracked Cat's phone and found her with Vincent by remembering their cat's name, Milo! Good Points. Maybe there is something else in that box. Or.........maybe Heather will be pivotal in the storyline somewhere. That would be great actually. I must say, Heather has the C-U-T-E-S-T outfits. I mean just adorable. I kind of wish that Cat and Vincent had sent that memory lantern up in the air for Vanessa. It would be a nice gesture for both of them to do together since Vanessa was involved with both of them. But of course the Big Baddie would have to come after. Next week is going to be exciting. So good wasn't it! Yes I think Vincent and Cat will see an opportunity to honor Vanessa very soon. I think the wedding may be that opportunity. I dreaded the episode's end as I looked at my clock ticking! I cannot wait for more next week!!! Hope to chat with you afterwards.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 16, 2015 21:36:18 GMT -5
Thank you VinCat❤Destined, I really enjoyed Matt's review. Very supportive and complimentary! I love when a reviewer finally sees what we see in the substance of the show and the outstanding actors who bring this saga to life so beautifully!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 16, 2015 21:45:10 GMT -5
First, may I just say, FREAKING AWESOME!!!! Loved EVERYTHING about this one! It will require MULTIPLE re-watches, some for character analysis and others for plot and also to appreciate JUST the continuity issues and morality plays brought out by this one. More on that in future posts.
There were SO MANY issues brought out in this episode that I simply don't know where to start. FAMILY is the ultimate centerpiece of this episode. One MUST come to terms with the LEGACY left by our relatives. Influences EVERYTHING that we are. Or in Hank's case, causes one to become COMPLETELY self-involved and power-hungry, as a means of trying to compete with Ghosts of Family Past. And Hank will NEVER do anything but FAIL to live up to the legacy left by Vincent's brothers BECAUSE he fails to understand the NATURE OF the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE of giving one's life for another.
And THAT brings me to the almost RELIGIOUS NATURE of this episode. The themes running through this episode would be great for a Sunday school lesson, quite frankly. The Keller brothers understood the necessity of spilling their blood for others, making them true martyrs. Christianity is based upon the Ultimate Sacrifice of Blood and death in order to give REDEMPTION to others that live. Vincent has LEARNED from his brothers and VALUES what they valued: giving of oneself for others. HANK utterly completely fails the test. He runs into the path of a bullet NOT to save someone else BUT for his own glory and to be seen as a Hero. Same reason he runs for political office.
Now, in continuing with the religious motif, I will entitle the rest of this review post as follows: The SINS of the PARENTS.
It is highly fitting that this episode begins and ends in a CHURCH, as the concepts in this episode are very biblical in nature.
The Sins of the Father and Mother are definitely visited upon the child in this episode. (Very Old Testament of Gillian.) Catherine is paying for what her parents did. And the sad thing is, Vanessa could see it ALL coming and eerily predicted where Catherine would be at the time she would most likely view the tape. Vanessa already knew her death was on its way, and that the reprocussions and ripples would continue outward to affect Catherine. And they have. Her WHOLE life following.
In her tape, she states that she KNOWS her daughter will HAVE to have answers and WILL come looking for them. She even knows that Catherine WILL get those answers and knows that it will consume her daughter, which it most certainly has. Vanessa knows her daughter SO WELL that, reading between the lines, Catherine will push others away and make everything a case in order to get said Answers and Justice. Vanessa even uses the words of Answers and Justice, which could be Catherine's middle names, as they are so important to her. Often at the exclusion of all else.
But those same concepts have caused her to push people away and protect her heart, something Vanessa eludes to in her tape when she pleads to Catherine to not let these things consume her. It is enough to finally open Cat's eyes fully and allow her to FINALLY move forward in her life to her wedding. At the SAME TIME that her mother's SINS have finally caught up wtih her poor daughter.
So the proto-beast DNA is actually someone trying to perfect VANESSA's Formula. And they are looking for the results of VANESSA's experiment from Afghanistan in Vincent. And MORALITY turns out to be the way to finally Identify Cat and Vincent. (And YES, they want CAT AS WELL, as Vincent's MORALITY means that he would allow himself to be experimented on again in order to protect Cat. SO BIKE RIDER IS TO GET THE PICTURES OF BOTH Vincent and Catherine, NOT just the beast itself.) So they even know that CAT is the key to Vincent, which was WHY Bob had to test Vincent's "morality" in the first place. While Vincent may not easily be PHYSICALLY controlled, he can certainly be controlled through his MORALITY and desire to protect innocents, particularly his MATE.
So, in Biblical fashion, MORALITY is what is used to track down Vincent (and Cat). By releasing the beast-virus with a devil-may-care attitude, Vincent and Catherine would be lured out, knowing that ONLY they would recognize the virus for what it is. BECAUSE THEY LINKED IT TO PROTO-BEAST BLOOD. Meant ONLY Vincent could track it. Or a cop that recognizes what to look for and has the means to narrow the field by being able to get ahold of delivery information. It would obviously take Vincent and Cat working TOGETHER to hunt the person down quickly, allowing BOTH to be identified. So being WITHOUT morality and willing to sacrifice innocents is the means to identify the very beings most sought after by the Organization.
And since finding out just what her parents did, Cat has been DRAWN to beast esperiments and beast killings BECAUSE she so desires JUSTICE and to make things right. IN Season 2, Bob Reynolds' actions caused deaths and torture for multiple individuals, including pain to his own daughter. So Cat is automatically even MORE determined to right the wrongs, due to the genetic legacy she has seemingly been left with.
The whole Vanessa and Bob Reynolds situation helps explain just WHY Cat has been so FOCUSED on this aspect of her life this Season. AND explains why she has even put the beast-experiments over moving forward with Vincent. Cat wants to MAKE IT RIGHT and lay things to rest BEFORE she commits to Vincent, something even Cat doesn't realize until tonight's episode. Again, almost Biblical in nature, with Catherine wanting to be cleansed of the sins of her parents before she is united with Vincent permanently, as he is the person MOST harmed by BOTH Vanessa and Bob.
And I even loved the image of Vincent having had to toil as a Beast for over a decade in order to almost earn/deserve his Bride. (How very Jacob and Rebecca of Gillian Horvath. Toil for the parents in order to earn the daughter, which Vincent most certainly did.)
And sins HAVE seemingly been cleansed through blood in this one. And another little thing that I LOVED about this episode is that CATHERINE's JOURNEY and sacrifices have almost been the healing grace and forgiveness that her PARENTS most need in order for them to be redeemed. Bob Reynolds IS seemingly HAPPY for Vincent and Catherine's engagement and WANTS to talk about it, although Cat is quick to shut him down. Vincent HAS proven to be a GOOD MAN and thus worthy of his daughter, SO BOB HELPS THEM by cluing Vincent into the fact that he CAN track the virus as a result of the blood. BOB REYNOLDS IS A BETTER MAN as a result of his daughter's being in his life. AND they have obviously spent more time together than just what has been on the screen, since Bob at some point gave the box to Catherine after selling the house. Bob WANTS that connection to his daughter (and through her, his lost love AND lost humanity), so he is vested in helping Vincent as well as Catherine. So as a result of his daughter, Bob is finding his own way back to humanity and redemption. He truly seems to love his daughter at this point and seeks to help, even insomuch as helping Cat find a way to explain and forgive her mother for her role in Vincent's tragedy.
And Catherine's love for Vincent has caused him to come to accept Bob's presence in their lives and even REACH OUT to Bob for help. Which means Vincent actually TRUSTS Bob to WANT to help them and make things right. WHich means he recognizes that Bob AT ONE TIME must have been a good man intent on doing things to protect his country, SAME as Vanessa. So Vincent seems to be farther on the road of forgiveness, prior to this episode, than Cat is about her family.
Both Vanessa and Bob Reynolds have come to see themselves through their daughter's eyes. And to WANT her forgiveness as a means towards their redemption. Vanessa promises Catherine to try to make it right, if given a chance. Which she never was, as she was murdered the very night of making the tape. But Vanessa is FINALLY able to GIVE THE ANSWERS that Cat needed more than anything ---her mother WAS a good person that was trying to make stronger soldiers and was committed to the greater good.
In the end, I think both Vanessa AND Bob Reynolds realize that their greatest contribution to the world was their child, someone committed to justice. Their MISTAKES and wrongdoings have INFLUENCED and MOLDED her ENTIRE life, in ways NEITHER could fully imagine. BUT those same mistakes and wrongdoings also 1) initially gave her Vincent (through Vanessa) and 2) ultimately made her bond stronger and deeper with Vincent (through Bob) AND made both Vincent and Catherine FIRMLY committed to saving others from going through what they went through.
So the SINS of the Parents nearly broke Catherine BUT made her a better person determined to leave a better legacy than either of her birth parents. Plus, Cat ended up getting the Love of her Life out of it, so all in all, retribution and redemption end up colliding in a beautiful way in a CHURCH at the end of the episode. Up until the 4th Horseman of the Apolocalypse drops in to the church, bringing the promise of pestilence, death, famine and misery into VinCat's lives once again and proving that even though the parents may end up with everlasting redemption as a result of their daughter, their sins may ultimately require she make the Ultimate Sacrifice of her life. Requires that the Viewer have FAITH that good will triumph over evil in the end.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 16, 2015 21:48:32 GMT -5
I have a question: Did we ever find out why Vincent was there when Vanessa got killed and he was there to save Catherine? For the life of me, I don't remember if they addressed that or if Vincent explained that to Catherine. This is bugging me that I can't remember, did I miss something? I am drawing a blank and I feel like a bad Beastie. Help......
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 16, 2015 21:55:00 GMT -5
I have a question: Did we ever find out why Vincent was there when Vanessa got killed and he was there to save Catherine? For the life of me, I don't remember if they addressed that or if Vincent explained that to Catherine. This is bugging me that I can't remember, did I miss something? I am drawing a blank and I feel like a bad Beastie. Help...... No there still isn't an explanation on that YET
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 16, 2015 21:55:54 GMT -5
End scene with VinCat
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 16, 2015 22:10:41 GMT -5
I GET why Cat couldn't live a lie anymore, particularly as regards her wedding shower. But I LOVED how guilty Cat felt afterwards for Heather. SHOWS HOW DIFFERENT Cat is from someone like Hank. Hank can only think of himself and how something looks to HIM, without any regards for anyone else's feelings. He is NEVER really sorry for what he says to Vincent about his brothers. Yet Catherine regrets her outburst because of the pain she has seemingly caused her sister.
And it answered my question as to how much Cat had REALLY told Heather about their mother, prior to this. CLEARLY, Cat had NOT wanted to take away from Heather the image of her mother that she had formed in her mind. So Cat had NOT told Heather about Vanessa's role in creating Vincent's beast side. Which is WHY Heather would be so bent on making Cat feel like Vanessa was part of her wedding. REMEMBER, this is the same Heather that created a Celestial Star hanging in the center of Cat's "Saturn Returns" birthday party. So that the center of Cat's solar system would be their mother, who was "born to the stars" when she died, as the family used to say (line from "Anniversary," as I must give credit, although I KNOW all of you RECOGNIZE the references!). And Cat had LOVED the celestial star. Was WHY Vincent had wanted to give her a "celestial candle" originally as a birthday present as well. Everyone KNEW how close Cat and her mother used to be.
So I loved the theme of Chasing Ghosts in this one. And how Heather FINALLY learns the truth, only to realize that it is only a partial truth. Their mother really DID try to make the world better as a result of her experimetns, only to see how badly twisted it could become and how even her own life, as well as her daughter's, was jeopardized. And how the revelations turn the two sisters towards one another, rather than away from one another. Because they are united in their grief and love and even understanding for what has happened in the past. And there truly ARE no more secrets between the sisters. And although the lesson has undoubtedly been a hard one for Heather, she understands just WHY her sister has been acting the way she has and been resistant to moving forwards when she was so emotionally stuck at a place of resentment and anger.
And I LOVED how Vincent was so clearly forgiving of Bob Reynolds in this one. He may never like Bob, but Vincent has most likely come to a place of "understanding" the man's desire to protect his daughter, Catherine. Because that is an impulse and drive that Vincent HIMSELF knows. He KNEW that they should approach the man AND that he would want to help. Vincent trusts this more than Catherine. Vincent does not look or speak angrily to Bob. It is almost as if Vincent is simply at peace with the man since his sperm provided him with the Love of his Life. (I mean, Season 2 Vincent would think that Bob had WANTED others to find him and might even have "suggested" such a plan to lure Vincent out, since only VINCENT would be able to Track the proto-beast blood. But Vincent TRUSTS Bob's suggestion and plan and relies upon it.) And I really DID think that Bob is pleased about the engagement and wanted to talk about it.
I LOVED everything about this episode. ESPECIALLY the fact that family is often what we make of it. And Vincent can seemingly trust CAT'S family more than his own. I never got a "feel" for the cousins, as they just seemed off in the world of "youth." But it gave Vincent some recollections of previous times with his own brothers, so at least it was not a total waste. And it also relieved Vincent of his guilt in not finding and reaching out to his relatives earlier. Probably because deep down, Vincent always knew what kind of man Hank really was, especially if Hank really DID avoid those previous Keller barbeques.
I Loved Heather in this episode as well. I'm coming to like her more and more. And that is NOT sarcasm talking. Heather's presence brings out Catherine's protectiveness and desire to keep her little sister ignorant of what went on before until she literally can't take it anymore and HAS to justify to her sister why she feels the way she does. And in part because her mother was NOT someone Cat could forgive, at the time, based on the knowledge she then had. But Vanessa even saw this coming, and left the tape for Catherine. A truly beautiful overture, and it showed that Vanessa, like her daughter, wanted her family to understand where she was coming from and WHY she had acted the way she acted. ANd it broke my heart for Cat, Heather AND Vanessa, as Vanessa probably NEVER imagined just HOW much her daughter would be dragged down the same rabbit hole as a result of her actions.
AND MAY I JUST ADD: NO ONE and I do MEAN no one could have possibly acted this scene better than Kristin!! THat girl truly gave her ALL to that scene. (Poor Nicole couldn't really even compete--no wonder they show her crying so little and have KK's face the one shown when they hug!) And I LOVED the way Cat seemed so at PEACE in the church, looking upwards towards the window, like a cleansed and free person. Symbolic that the next thing that occurs is a breaking of that window!
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