rose
Army Recruit
Posts: 133
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Post by rose on Aug 26, 2014 4:28:08 GMT -5
I do not really mind this episode. It had some good parts. Like I liked the opening scene. The vincat interaction at the start. The Cat Reynolds interaction was well done. I even enjoyed the Gabe scenes. I liked the way Cat was able to figure out how to find Vincent which showed that in spite of the discord in their relationship at the time. She knew him better than anyone else. I appreciate what the next few episodes may not be popular with many of us and how many wish the story had taken a different direction. I appreciate the story that the writers were trying to tell and I like how I was able to take that emotional journey with the characters, how I was able to feel their pain, their anger, confusion,frustration and how conflicted they were. It was like in life when you plan for one thing but unforseen events result in people taking a different direction to the one they originally planned. I think that's were destiny comes in because no matter how hopeless things seemed at some point. Because Vincent and Catherine had a strong connection and were meant to be they found their way back to each other and able to move past their mistakes and wrong choices.
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rose
Army Recruit
Posts: 133
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Post by rose on Aug 26, 2014 4:28:25 GMT -5
I do not really mind this episode. It had some good parts. Like I liked the opening scene. The vincat interaction at the start. The Cat Reynolds interaction was well done. I even enjoyed the Gabe scenes. I liked the way Cat was able to figure out how to find Vincent which showed that in spite of the discord in their relationship at the time. She knew him better than anyone else. I appreciate what the next few episodes may not be popular with many of us and how many wish the story had taken a different direction. I appreciate the story that the writers were trying to tell and I like how I was able to take that emotional journey with the characters, how I was able to feel their pain, their anger, confusion,frustration and how conflicted they were. It was like in life when you plan for one thing but unforseen events result in people taking a different direction to the one they originally planned. I think that's were destiny comes in because no matter how hopeless things seemed at some point. Because Vincent and Catherine had a strong connection and were meant to be they found their way back to each other and able to move past their mistakes and wrong choices.
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Post by kiki09 on Aug 26, 2014 6:51:11 GMT -5
I guess my problems with 207 forward is that Tori is so easily able to manipulate Vincent, even with Catherine providing plausible, moral reasons for at least TRYING it her way. And Reynolds was the only one with certain pieces to the puzzle AND knowledge of the enemies of Vincent/people behind Muirfield. So keeping Reynolds alive but in jail would make sense, at least to protect Catherine, if for nothing else. But Vincent can't see reason or ANYTHING but revenge with just a few words from Tori. And I always saw the Gabe relationship as happening due to Cat reacting badly to Tori and believing Vincent WAS really over her. And Cat wanted Normal after everything that had happened, and Gabe was all about building a beast-free existence AND of putting bad guys away that hurt good people. Seemed about saving lives and all the things Cat was about. Cat was just trying to go pain-free, at least to me, and get over the trauma and have normal. So the Gabe thing made sense to me, from the standpoint of him SEEMING to be like Vincent originally was. And episode 213 really brings home that Cat knew that she lacked passion with Gabe. So Cat tries to go along with what Gabe wants (again, Gabe manipulating Cat in the same way and manner that Tori manipulates Vincent--hate hate hate this, all the way around. Both Vincent and Cat have to make the SAME mistakes.). But Cat always seems to be trying to find her way back to Vincent, even when with Gabe (with the exception of part of 215--but I always saw that as Vincent-denial on her part). BUT with Vincent and Tori, Vincent doesn't seem to try to break the hold or get away from Tori UNTIL 212. Vincent is including Tori in his plans (and she is oh so willing to be bait, to be part of Vincent's plan. HOW creepy in that?), so maybe that is why I just can't tolerate the Tori/Vincent episodes. At least in this episode, Tori acknowledges that Cat is with Vincent AND she seems in desperate need of a mother-like figure/friend like Cat who DOES understand her situation. However, by next episode, all that has changed. Tori FIRST tries to cling to Gabe AND gets him to take her home with him for Thanksgiving! Wonder how that could have gone if Reynolds hadn't been involved? I agree with most of what you are saying but I to me, I don't think it's as simple as 'Vincent not wanting to break free from Tori'. I really do feel it's more than that. Like @jeffrren mentioned, I think we and in fact even Vincent underestimated the power Tori had over him. I think because it was not explicitly shown until maybe 212 and also some parts of 210, the true extent of her power wasn't so clear. We were mostly seeing the computer breakdown of Vincent and Catherine's relationship and him regressing into beast (which one could argue was partly as a result of interactions with Tori) as opposed to actually showing us V/T interacting. Which is interesting and could have been possibly explored further the idea of how a beast and a she-beast interact and what power they might have over each other. But I digress. my main issue with this episode is that IMO it was snot well written - it was dull. blunt and indifferent... and yes, Tori was also introduced but that was not my main issue when i was watching. i have watched most episodes many times but not this one Lol. You and I have the exact same problem with this ep. It was okay but I wasn't really gripped by it.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Aug 26, 2014 16:58:57 GMT -5
I guess I would have liked the writers to have shown better just how much of being with Tori was within Vincent's control. In 206, Vincent can't figure out what "triggered" him. And we know it was Tori. We also know that Vincent literally seemed without remorse, so it was like Tori literally zapped away any rationale/thinking ability for Vincent, leaving him with only his "id" factor, so to speak.
By episode 211, Vincent still seems in that same place (totally wrapped up in "beast" issues and us beasts against the world), but he picks up the gem at the precinct. He is about to leave the precinct, which he had no problem with leaving Catherine and others to die earlier, but when he hears the shot, he immediately goes to save her (and everyone). To me, it is a combination of factors of the gem allowing Vincent to "clear his mind" for the first time since he has met Tori. The gem allows him to revert to "normal." By the end of the episode, the gem is gone. But in 212, Tori's hold over Vincent is also CLEARLY gone. From the time that Vincent is on the ground in the dark in the precinct with Catherine (after he saves her from being shot), it is like Vincent is "himself" again. And he clearly wants Catherine back. That is why in 212 he DEFLECTS from Tori's question when she asks if he wants Catherine back. Vincent has taught Tori how to be a human lie detector like himself, and he knows if he tried saying that he DIDN'T want Catherine back, she would know he is lying. So he says that what he really wants, right now, is to find the gem. To me, Catherine's hold/pull over Vincent is back by 212 even though Vincent is basically in a meaningless/loveless relationship with Tori. Vincent feels responsible for Tori by that point, but he clearly can resist her taking him over. And Vincent basically breaks up with Tori prior to knowing JT has been kidnapped. Vincent even beasts out AGAINST Tori when Dana is being held by Tori at the houseboat. So Vincent is able to maintain his reasoning and his own control by 212. Once Vincent realized that he could trust Catherine, it was like Tori's power just wasn't enough any more, no matter what. As Tori tells Vincent, she knows that she is losing him and that there is nothing she can do about it. Just wish CAT had known that at that point.
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Post by Catherine Chandler on Aug 26, 2014 21:34:53 GMT -5
Hi!
I moved all your posts to this thread. Sorry that there wasn't anyone that could open the thread. I don't rewatch the episodes but I know you guys do. Unfortunately I don't know what happened to Yolie. I hope she just got busy and everything is okay. If this happens again, please send me a PM, I get PMs to my email so I'll know you guys need help. Just know that I can check during the nights and on weekends. My time is Mountain Standard Time. Right now here it's around 8:30 PM so where I live is 2 hours behind New York's time, just so you can an idea of when I'll be able to check my PMs.
Thanks.
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Post by jefferen on Aug 27, 2014 9:02:14 GMT -5
Hi! I moved all your posts to this thread. Sorry that there wasn't anyone that could open the thread. I don't rewatch the episodes but I know you guys do. Unfortunately I don't know what happened to Yolie. I hope she just got busy and everything is okay. If this happens again, please send me a PM, I get PMs to my email so I'll know you guys need help. Just know that I can check during the nights and on weekends. My time is Mountain Standard Time. Right now here it's around 8:30 PM so where I live is 2 hours behind New York's time, just so you can an idea of when I'll be able to check my PMs. Thanks. Thank You! I was actually more concerned with what happened to Yolie. She is always early and is always on here, so it was just unusual. Especially because she wasnt even on twitter. And she hasnt been really on here either or posted since then. Hoping everything is okay
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Post by susy on Aug 27, 2014 19:15:00 GMT -5
We see Tori "activating" both Vincent AND her father in this episode, to my eye at least. We don't actually see her eyes "glow" until the end, but we DO see her touch both men and then they change. I agree with you, from my point of view Tori activates Vin and her father, actually it is not until she touches Windsor's hand that he begins to turn into a beast. I haven't realized that before.
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Post by susy on Aug 27, 2014 19:20:35 GMT -5
How the HECK does Tori fall for Vincent when he KILLS her father IN THAT MANNER right in front of her? And Tori has just zapped Vincent's ability to emote and care for much of anything but the kill. I mean, his humanity is just GONE in that killing. I think that while she seems to love her father, she really hates him and as we will see later these feelings seem to be managed thru Vincent actions, even when we didn't see when Vincent decides to kill Reynolds later, this decisión is made while being with Tori
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Aug 27, 2014 22:30:24 GMT -5
I've been away for a few days spending what is to be the last week my grandson stays with me before he goes back to NJ. We ended up in a hotel for a few days with cramps internet. So hence why I haven't been around. Come Mondays re-watch of the turkey drama I will be here in full force. Hope you all join me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 17:44:49 GMT -5
So sorry I missed this re-watch, amigos. Monday was my first day back to work after having the summer off....I have been drowning all week. I will be definitely joining you the next episode....it's a holiday here in Canada on Monday! I enjoyed reading your comments and share many of your perspectives and opinions.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Aug 30, 2014 11:25:56 GMT -5
Meh. It's just all very predictable and honestly, not very well done. There needed to be more to Tori's power over Vincent for it to resonate. Instead it just feels so obvious and so much like a ploy. Plus there are too many times after this point, when he seems to make bad decisions all on his own when she is nowhere to be found. I mean, I don't know whether to chalk it up to being a bad plan or poorly written, or poorly executed, or creatively underwhelming... but none of it feels good to me. I could be watching any bad soap opera on any bad TV show on the CW network. Ultimately I can't get past the fact that the plan for S2 more or less dumbs down the beauty, intelligence, and creativity of the show. It's just too big of a bump in the road to get past. I don't even know how to have a conversation about anything else when I watch this (or other) episode(s). It's like there is an elephant in the room. Some mishaps are too big to ignore or work around...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 18:39:04 GMT -5
I really do not know that I can survive this TORrid affair a second time....do I really want to be TORmented again? I assure you that, for me, it is going to take TORrential amounts of patience and good will to get through take two.....and if that wasn't enough of a TORpedo to sink me into despair, then we have to do some GABbing about Gabe.....who volunteers to submit themselves to this kind of TORture? ?? Only Beasties!!!!!!!! See you Monday night at 9:00 p.m., amigos!!!!!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Aug 31, 2014 2:14:47 GMT -5
I really do not know that I can survive this TORrid affair a second time....do I really want to be TORmented again? I assure you that, for me, it is going to take TORrential amounts of patience and good will to get through take two.....and if that wasn't enough of a TORpedo to sink me into despair, then we have to do some GABbing about Gabe.....who volunteers to submit themselves to this kind of TORture? ?? Only Beasties!!!!!!!! See you Monday night at 9:00 p.m., amigos!!!!! Obviously we love TORIsure! I guess like the saying goes...Misery loves company LOL I will be right here with you!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 6:38:03 GMT -5
I really do not know that I can survive this TORrid affair a second time....do I really want to be TORmented again? I assure you that, for me, it is going to take TORrential amounts of patience and good will to get through take two.....and if that wasn't enough of a TORpedo to sink me into despair, then we have to do some GABbing about Gabe.....who volunteers to submit themselves to this kind of TORture? ?? Only Beasties!!!!!!!! See you Monday night at 9:00 p.m., amigos!!!!! Obviously we love TORIsure! I guess like the saying goes...Misery loves company LOL I will be right here with you! Cruel and unusual punishment.....we are all crazy!!! At least the company is the best!!!
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