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Post by lovebatb on Sept 7, 2014 20:47:03 GMT -5
I really agree with you about that scene in " Held Hostage" . For me it was the turning point to each other too.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 8, 2014 11:42:30 GMT -5
That's why "Held Hostage" is also one of my favorite episodes from Season 2 despite some of the earlier uncomfortable scenes early on in the episode between Vincent and Catherine. The anger is just so upfront and present in the characters all the way up to the lights going off. Thereafter, anger gone. Misunderstandings due to anger at one another don't happen again thereafter in the season. However, starts a WHOLE new misunderstanding: that of not being sure whether or not the other person had moved on or was better off with someone else.
Which segues beautifully into my #18 favorite scene, even though it involves TORI. Yes, you heard me correctly. Apparently, I am one of the few that loved episode 212. So without further ado,
#18 -The PHONE CALL between Vincent and Catherine in "Recipe for Disaster" (212) Vincent just having to call Catherine, as we learn he has been doing EVERY NIGHT apparently since 211 ended, to touch base with her regarding where THEY go next. Vincent sees Catherine as his equal and the person to discuss and solve case issues with, much like they did in Season 1. Vincent's worry for the harm that Dana could do to Catherine is also present. His motivation is no longer just finding that gem--it is to keep Catherine safe and her job secure. And he wants her part of every step of the investigation, whether it is sharing what he has learned from the file or following an old outdated map to learn where the dungeon might be. And Vincent jokes with Cat about her cooking and panics when he hears the fire alarm in the background. He wants to come over and would have had Cat told him to. Even though Vincent says at one point in the conversation that once the case is done, they can go their separate ways, you know he is doing this not because he wants to at this point, but because he believes Cat would be better off without having to lie for him and risk her career protecting him. And the way Cat winces at his words and is quick to point out that SHE is a part of this case, too, is her way of telling Vincent that she CHOOSES to protect him AND isn't complaining about it, as she did in "Reunion," since it is about their SHARED past histories.
You see from this phone call that Vincent and Catherine are doing everything they can to stay in contact. They see themselves as presenting a united front against whatever may come against them. It is an "US" again rather than each individual having to look out for themselves. And Tori has no place in this. Even though the gem touches on BEAST-related issues, which was SUPPOSEDLY the whole reason Vincent was after information about it, Vincent neglects to see Tori as important enough or significant enough to share the information with. AND says that Vincent doesn't see a future with Tori, quite frankly, if he can't even talk with her.
#19 THE CONVERSATION between Tori and Vincent in "Recipe for Disaster." --You know, the FIRST conversation between them on the houseboat where both are in their freaking matching robes (robes and living together implications definitely go on the WORST scenes as well, just because it happened.). However, the multiple cues of conversation, body language, etc. literally show how Vincent is exiting/pulling away from a relationship with Tori and wanting back with Catherine. Tori walks in on Vincent hanging up from Catherine. And Vincent can't really even talk with Tori. And Vincent's body language just screams that he feels he is walking on eggshells and just waiting for Tori to blow. He certainly shares nothing with her. He continually BACKS AWAY from Tori. He doesn't even attempt to assuage Tori's doubts. He can't comfort her the way he just did with Catherine on the phone. Plus, Vincent has taught Tori to know when someone is telling a lie, so when Tori asks him if he wants Catherine back, VINCENT DEFLECTS entirely, and he says that what he really wants right then is that dang gem. So even Vincent knows that he really wants Catherine back at this point, even with what Tori is offering. And all Tori has to offer is sex. She is giving it her all, and it is nothing to Vincent. Tori comments that Vincent has never promised a future, and Vincent rapidly disengages from her as she puts her arms around him, AND Vincent still doesn't admit they are in a relationship or offer her a promise of the future. AND Vincent defends Catherine and Catherine's actions to Tori--he won't be suckered into doubting Catherine again by Tori as he was in 208. EVEN WITHOUT THE GEM, Vincent is clearly able to break out from Tori's "primal" hold from him. The sex was obviously meaningless and hollow because TORI COMMENTS ON how Vincent is getting out of their bed EVERY night in order to call Catherine. How much clearer can Vincent be that he NEEDS Catherine, not Tori.
(I freely admit that this scene could equally fall on my worst/hate list. I mean, I wanted Vincent to come right out and say, right then, that YES, he DID want Catherine back. That no, there was no real relationship wtih Tori. He should have SAID, what relationship DO we have? And just gotten it over with. But Vincent had misjudged Catherine, and chose BEAST, and someone that just was a "yes" woman to everything Vincent did rather than having any commen sense and independent judgment herself. And now Vincent just wants to avoid a scene with Tori, and he limps along with a non-relationship rather than making a go of being by himself, particularly as Vincent is really unsure of where he could possibly stand with Cat. So Vincent wants a safe fallback position.)
So for all those judging Catherine on wanting to get over the pain by jumping in to bed with Gabe, remember that Vincent takes rather darn long to just cut Tori loose. In fact, it is BECAUSE Vincent waits too long to cut Tori loose, and her desperation to hold onto Vincent and "make things right between them"--Vincent's words, not mine--is the WHOLE REASON that Cat goes from NOT wanting a relationship with Gabe at the beginning of 212 to telling him she is all-in by the end of 212. Cat has seen Vincent apparently mourning Tori and assumes that meant that Tori was loved by Vincent and, as a result, that Vincent is over Cat. "Recipe for Disaster" just shows how Cat is NOT over Vincent by any means, and she sees Gabe as the means to finally build a future for herself and get over Vincent. Because being alone is not making Vincent go away for her. Again, BAD REASONING for jumping into a relationship, but that is why so many people end up in "rebound" relationships in the first place--just trying to make the pain and loss go away.
#20 --Tori's Death Scene.
Yes, I was glad she was dead. But I groaned out loud when it happened, because while Vincent is seeing that she is dead, the CAMERA focuses on Catherine, perfectly poised in the dungeon cell window, seeing how Vincent is reacting. Of course, Cat didn't hear even Tori admitting that Vincent had always belonged with Catherine. She just sees Vincent upset and assumes that means that Vincent loved Tori (and is therefore completely over her. Fully moved on.).
And I admit that I felt Vincent deserved some of that remorse he was feeling in that moment. Vincent had taught Tori about her beast skills WITHOUT providing any actual GOOD SOUND JUDGMENT on how to use them. Tori had even beasted out at Vincent when Vincent wanted to free Dana. Shows how Tori has no good sense and acts on impulse. She CAN'T control her beastly nature, and Vincent had not tried to make her.
On the cell phone during their last conversation before death time, Vincent had dismissed Tori. He felt she had nothing to contribute to the group and hung up while Tori was still telling Vincent that she had the ability to find JT due to having witnessed him leave the party. So Tori just up and goes off on her own, without telling anyone else. You see the exact reason why Vincent dismissed Tori in the first place AND how Vincent is acting the same way in throwing things/kicking things at the Gentleman's Club and running off AND barely taking time to coordinate with Catherine and the others. At least he realizes the wisdom in Catherine's plan of a two-prong attack, with her tracing the whereabouts via an old map and the case file with Dana. Again, Vincent will take the time to work with Catherine, even then, because he knows she has good sense and judgment, the things he failed to promote in Tori. The Beast is Right theme led Vincent to provide only cursory mentoring of Tori, since he only teaches her about her gifts without providing a how-to guide for when to use them. (You know, the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" talk that all superheroes get sooner or later in the comic books.) Tori still has no control, and Vincent finally breaks-up with her outside of JT's party, leaving Tori then so desperate and alone that she will risk anything. Again, the worst thing for Vincent to have done. He could want to be a non-boyfriend, but since he had previously undertaken to be Tori's teacher in all things Beast, he had sort of a moral obligation to see it through. ALL OF THIS hits Vincent in the death scene. He realizes what he should have been for Tori - mentor and friend. He should have had a stable, REAL relationship with her before just making it all about the uncontrollable "beastly" "primal" thing. That was ultimately meaningless and nothing to build a relationship on. And what we see is guilt and sadness over a loss of life of one so young that hadn't any real direction at the time of her death other than to follow her boyfriend. Who hadn't provided the best decision-making or guidance for himself, let alone his student.
So Tori's death is tragic, especially, as it finally knocks sense completely into Vincent. At the beginning of 212 in his phone conversation with Catherine, Vincent says that he has "chosen a different path from her, right or wrong." At episode's end and thereafter in 213, Vincent actually articulates that he made the WRONG CHOICE. Tori even dies stating Vincent had made the WRONG CHOICE when he should have chosen Catherine and everything VinCat stood for.
And in 214 ("Redemption"), Vincent is determined to let Catherine see, as he articulates to JT, that he KNOWS he made the wrong choice by choosing Beast before. So he wants to try to go Beast cold-turkey in order to let Catherine know that he realizes that he made the wrong choice and won't ever take the law into his own hands again. Quite frankly, Catherine needed even more than that. Catherine's fears from Season 1 have been brought up all over again: she thinks she is Vincent's SECOND CHOICE and that Vincent would still be with Tori if she were alive. Catherine wants to be someone's FIRST CHOICE, so Catherine tries to make things work with Gabe. But guess what Catherine, love is not contagious. It is not going to rub off on you the more Gabe appears to love you. And what Gabe increasingly displays from 214 onwards is obsession, NOT love.
What Catherine NEEDED to have heard out of Vincent was what Vincent finally is able to articulate to Sam in 216 (HENCE WHY THIS REMAINS MY all-time FAVE SCENE). Vincent tells Sam that he MADE THE WRONG CHOICE, and ALL it led to was heartache and pain. He never loved Tori is implied, and he lost everything that really mattered to him the most. So Catherine is also able to hear, once again, WHY she was never second choice. And why Vincent will never again forget her value to him from an appreciation of her love and acceptance of him, when he chooses to be a DECENT moral person worthy of such a love. And that she is there as his partner to protect him and support him and keep him from delving down the rabbit hole of revenge and obsession, thus providing the incentive and reason to NOT lose himself again.
Vincent's Journey back to a better, more solid version of himself takes the turning point in 211, in my opinion. BUT IT DOES take the way that Tori dies in 212 for Vincent to FINALLY actually realize that what led to ALL of this was in fact his WRONG CHOICE from way back in episode 208. Vincent thereafter in 213 begins to take a hard look at himself and try to get back to the man that he thinks Catherine would want. It then takes some of JT's prodding and continued conversations with Catherine to realize that he has to do things for the RIGHT reasons and not just because he wants his girlfriend back. So Sam's sneer to him in 215 (from the dungeon cell that Vincent's actions are motivated by just wanting his girlfriend back) ACTUALLY MAKES A GOOD POINT and is what Vincent needed to hear. And Vincent tries to return the favor, as he understands, in Sam's moment on the ledge, EXACTLY what Sam realizes that he has lost. Because once revenge is denied him, SAM HAS NOTHING, having burned all of his bridges behind him. He can't ever hope to have Dana back or any real life of freedom. And he sacrificed it all for revenge, having nothing left of himself after this years-long quest is over and he has been stopped. Sad thing is, even completing his revenge scheme would have still left Sam on that ledge with nothing more than an empty sad shell of his former self. And Vincent knows that is how he would be, but for Catherine giving him a reason and motivation to become something better until Vincent could find his own motivation to do so for the complete right reasons of moral integrity and self-awareness. Therefore providing a solid foundation to make Catherine realize the true DEPTH of Vincent's love for her and that she feels the same, despite anything that has happened before.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 20, 2014 12:52:29 GMT -5
Like many movies, the sequel rarely tops the original and this is the case for S2. S1 has a purity and feel that S2 matches at times, but doesn't really surpass. Having said that, I liked S2 and enjoyed it for its own merits almost as much as S1.
When this thread was first created, I hadn't seen the 1st half of S2 since the eps originally aired and couldn't remember well enough to provide a fair assessment. Now having re-watched all the eps, I'm in a better position to list my favorite episodes. Some episodes really stand out for me, while others I would kind of rank the same. So I'm grouping my list by the major story arcs.
Favorite Story Arc (Fugitive Arc - eps 17-22) 1. Beast is the New Black 2. Operation Fake Date 3. Deja Vu 4. Cat and Mouse 5. Cold Case 6. Ever After
Second Favorite Arc (Beast Assassin Arc - eps 1-8) 1. Liar, Liar 2. Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? 3. Who Am I & Kidnapped 4. Man or Beast? 5. Hothead, Reunion, Father Knows Best
Third Favorite Arc (Gem/Beast Serum/Love Triangle Arc - eps 9-16) 1. About Last Night 2. Catch Me if You Can 3. Ancestors 4. Held Hostage, Redemption, Till Death, Recipe For Disaster 5. Don't Die On Me
Overall Favorite Episodes - Beast is the New Black - About Last Night - Operation Fake Date - Liar, Liar - Deja Vu
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Post by jefferen on Sept 21, 2014 22:02:39 GMT -5
My favorite V scene ever is in About Last Night during the morning after scene when V opens his eyes and Cats hand comes up and caresses his back. and Then V smiles. I love his smile so much and then he says "you didn't leave this time" that and his smile just gives me goosebumps every time. V's face and smile just say it all. It looks like he's gotten everything he's ever hoped and wished for. I've never seen IMO Vincent ever look more content, satisfied , happy and more in love than in that moment butterflies. & goosebumps every time
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 22, 2014 16:44:13 GMT -5
I guess that really sums it up for the moments that I loved about Season 2: that little acknowledgment by Vincent or Catherine (or both) regarding some action taken or not taken by the other. Those little moments that meant everything. Might have been just a few words, but the way and manner in which they were said spoke volumes.
My favs of those "little moments:"
From "you didn't leave" from Catherine to Vincent in "Held Hostage" and his reply of "you turned out the lights." What they really meant: I realize that I CAN trust you, I remember how you have risked everything to save me in the past, and oh yeah, that is why I fell in love with you in the first place. And the way they LOOK at each other. They are both just content to stay lying on the cold precinct floor staring into each other's eyes like they are seeing each other again for the first time and falling in love all over again. Again, this is the critical moment, in my opinion, that was the major turn in Vincent's coming back to himself.
"If I'd known that was your intention, I never would have jumped off the roof." Vincent to Catherine in "Kidnapped" after having slept with her. He liked that she seduced him. And he wanted to be seduced. He just COULD NOT resist that PULL. And for a moment, he was really happy, despite everything that had been done to him. And he seemed like his old self whenever he was alone with Catherine in Season 1. She could just right everything in his mixed-up world. Obviously, Vincent wasn't thinking in terms of a one night stand at all. This was confirmed in "Beast Is the New Black" in that Vincent's first thoughts to try to calm himself from beasting out and to keep him from crossing the line again were of Catherine smiling in reply to his comment from "Kidnapped" when they were in bed. It wasn't just the sex but the connection between them. It was how Catherine made him FEEL in that moment: wanted and loved.
"Don't worry." Vincent to Catherine in "Hothead," right before he goes into the burning building for his nephew. And then he kisses her. Twice. Because really, once can never be enough. He knew she was worried for him. And he wanted her to know that he would do everything he could to get back to her. He was so concerned for her fear. He loved her then, memories or not.
"Maybe my moving forward is coming with you." from "Beast is the New Black." Before, Vincent could accept having to separate from Catherine for her own good and for her to have a chance at a normal life. But he realizes from her statement that her normal and happy life is only found by being with him. Period. And he believes. And then he just can't imagine leaving without her, and he is willing to risk trying to escape with her from the roof just so he won't have to be without her. It is Cat that has to talk sense into Vincent and assure him that they WILL find a way to be together. And Vincent FINALLY GETS IT. From this point on, Vincent is not going without her. He turns back and resolves to stay in NY before even realizing that Cat has been captured. Vincent then won't leave in "Cat and Mouse" and takes the risky FBI deal because this is the ONLY way to be with Cat. They will move forward together. And all from that speech that started out "you are my gem." Both realize that being together is the only way they wish to proceed, despite the sacrifices.
"I was having so much fun before." A very vulnerable Vincent to Catherine in "Liar, Liar." Further confirmation that their night on the houseboat wasn't just a one-time event for Vincent. He truly enjoyed talking with Catherine and being with her. He wants another chance. He was willing to stay away for Cat's sake, as he told JT, but he really wanted to move forward with Catherine. He was ashamed of his actions and wanted Cat to know that he wanted to be with her, despite the missions. And he is thrilled to think Cat is giving him a second chance. He gets her flowers, and then when he finds out that Catherine may have been using him to get into the boathouse, the look Jay makes is priceless in that you see a devastated, surprised, hurt Vincent, almost like HE is the one that has been punched.
"I will make it up to you." Vincent's line in how many episodes of Season 2? It is heard in "Reunion" and 206. Shows that even early on with limited memories, Vincent already saw his future as being with Cat. And he wanted that future. And he recognized then just how many sacrifices she had made in her own life in order to protect him.
"I've got to know, why did you leave?" Vincent to Catherine at the beginning of their phone call in "About Last Night." He just can't get over that she wasn't there when he woke up. Because it meant something to him. He thought they were back. And then she was gone, no note. So he talked it out with JT and can't leave it alone. And he is not letting her off that phone until she tells him. And he won't believe that she doesn't want back with him as much as he wants back with her. So he is not giving up on her, no matter why she left. He's not leaving her again. (Except when he does, in the next episode, and then comes to realize that he really DOES mean that he is not leaving her again. So comes back.)
"Obviously, the blond is getting to her." Vincent about Catherine's character issues for this season! Catherine wants to believe that deep down, Gabe wants to be good and will do the right thing. Because she doesn't want to accept that she would have been with a guy that was beast through and through. So she still thinks she can just talk Gabe around into not destroying Vincent. Catherine, the queen of denial through much of season 2, finally will back herself into a corner that she has to come punching her way out of by episode's end (which kills Gabe, but she insists on reviving him. So still didn't see just how far down Gabe had completely gone.). In some ways, it is sweet that Catherine looks for and hopes for the best out of the men in her life. But this season, that really doesn't work out so well for her most of the time. And if Vincent wants to blame the wig, let him.
"And Veronica has questions." And with that, she takes the keys and leaves. Catherine to Vincent in "Ever After." Meaning that Catherine will never quit until she has figured out what happened to the dead guy. Seriously, Vincent, you find that surprising? After how she hounded you in Season 1 for every last detail of her mom's case. "I'm not hear about my mom." Yeah, right. How many times did she say that? And you called her out on it then. So you know she won't leave any stone unturned. She is out for justice, no matter the cost. You should have learned that from a bullet to the gut. Yet it still takes the suburbs to finally bring the point home to Vincent. And Catherine is right in her assessment of Vincent: he can't let it go either. So he has to go ask the housewife if she arranged to murder her husband or not. So they really ARE made for each other. Even their most annoying personal traits are mirrored by the other. Both have to see something through to the end, especially when they think they are right. So stubborn. Both in need of justice after having been denied it themselves. Two sides to a coin, the yin to her yang. You get the point.
"I just want to be with you here now." Catherine to Vincent in "Deja Vu." And she means it in that moment. And it is going to come back to bite her, you just know it. Sweet and romantic. But not practical. Especially given Vincent's condition. So we go from the kissing couple to the camera pulling back until we see the wild boar. It is the WAY that statue is positioned: the wild boar has paused in his flight and is looking back at what hunts it. Because it is always hunted. And looking backwards, even as it tries to move forwards. So technically, Catherine is right in that they only have the present moment since the future most likely will have more fleeing and looking over their shoulders. And Vincent is not going to be happy without a future with Catherine. VINCENT has been the one to talk over and over about the two of them deserving a future together. So he is going to want that future to start as soon as possible. Going to be interesting to see how Catherine reacts when new beasts and experiments start turning up in Season 3 that compromise their future. The future that she IS planning with Vincent, whether she wants to admit it or not. And we all KNOW that Vincent is going to take Beyonce's advice and put a ring on that!
So love those one-liners that go back and forth between the two. Made me buy a few episodes from Season 2 that I otherwise would not have wanted to watch again. Made you just fall in love with VinCat all over again. So I'm with Jefferen in proclaiming all hail to the beautiful VinCat scenes with those sweet little lines and cute/adorable looks between the two!
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Post by jefferen on Sept 23, 2014 10:31:42 GMT -5
I guess that really sums it up for the moments that I loved about Season 2: that little acknowledgment by Vincent or Catherine (or both) regarding some action taken or not taken by the other. Those little moments that meant everything. Might have been just a few words, but the way and manner in which they were said spoke volumes. My favs of those "little moments:" From "you didn't leave" from Catherine to Vincent in "Held Hostage" and his reply of "you turned out the lights." What they really meant: I realize that I CAN trust you, I remember how you have risked everything to save me in the past, and oh yeah, that is why I fell in love with you in the first place. And the way they LOOK at each other. They are both just content to stay lying on the cold precinct floor staring into each other's eyes like they are seeing each other again for the first time and falling in love all over again. Again, this is the critical moment, in my opinion, that was the major turn in Vincent's coming back to himself. "If I'd known that was your intention, I never would have jumped off the roof." Vincent to Catherine in "Kidnapped" after having slept with her. He liked that she seduced him. And he wanted to be seduced. He just COULD NOT resist that PULL. And for a moment, he was really happy, despite everything that had been done to him. And he seemed like his old self whenever he was alone with Catherine in Season 1. She could just right everything in his mixed-up world. Obviously, Vincent wasn't thinking in terms of a one night stand at all. This was confirmed in "Beast Is the New Black" in that Vincent's first thoughts to try to calm himself from beasting out and to keep him from crossing the line again were of Catherine smiling in reply to his comment from "Kidnapped" when they were in bed. It wasn't just the sex but the connection between them. It was how Catherine made him FEEL in that moment: wanted and loved. "Don't worry." Vincent to Catherine in "Hothead," right before he goes into the burning building for his nephew. And then he kisses her. Twice. Because really, once can never be enough. He knew she was worried for him. And he wanted her to know that he would do everything he could to get back to her. He was so concerned for her fear. He loved her then, memories or not. "Maybe my moving forward is coming with you." from "Beast is the New Black." Before, Vincent could accept having to separate from Catherine for her own good and for her to have a chance at a normal life. But he realizes from her statement that her normal and happy life is only found by being with him. Period. And he believes. And then he just can't imagine leaving without her, and he is willing to risk trying to escape with her from the roof just so he won't have to be without her. It is Cat that has to talk sense into Vincent and assure him that they WILL find a way to be together. And Vincent FINALLY GETS IT. From this point on, Vincent is not going without her. He turns back and resolves to stay in NY before even realizing that Cat has been captured. Vincent then won't leave in "Cat and Mouse" and takes the risky FBI deal because this is the ONLY way to be with Cat. They will move forward together. And all from that speech that started out "you are my gem." Both realize that being together is the only way they wish to proceed, despite the sacrifices. "I was having so much fun before." A very vulnerable Vincent to Catherine in "Liar, Liar." Further confirmation that their night on the houseboat wasn't just a one-time event for Vincent. He truly enjoyed talking with Catherine and being with her. He wants another chance. He was willing to stay away for Cat's sake, as he told JT, but he really wanted to move forward with Catherine. He was ashamed of his actions and wanted Cat to know that he wanted to be with her, despite the missions. And he is thrilled to think Cat is giving him a second chance. He gets her flowers, and then when he finds out that Catherine may have been using him to get into the boathouse, the look Jay makes is priceless in that you see a devastated, surprised, hurt Vincent, almost like HE is the one that has been punched. "I will make it up to you." Vincent's line in how many episodes of Season 2? It is heard in "Reunion" and 206. Shows that even early on with limited memories, Vincent already saw his future as being with Cat. And he wanted that future. And he recognized then just how many sacrifices she had made in her own life in order to protect him. "I've got to know, why did you leave?" Vincent to Catherine at the beginning of their phone call in "About Last Night." He just can't get over that she wasn't there when he woke up. Because it meant something to him. He thought they were back. And then she was gone, no note. So he talked it out with JT and can't leave it alone. And he is not letting her off that phone until she tells him. And he won't believe that she doesn't want back with him as much as he wants back with her. So he is not giving up on her, no matter why she left. He's not leaving her again. (Except when he does, in the next episode, and then comes to realize that he really DOES mean that he is not leaving her again. So comes back.) "Obviously, the blond is getting to her." Vincent about Catherine's character issues for this season! Catherine wants to believe that deep down, Gabe wants to be good and will do the right thing. Because she doesn't want to accept that she would have been with a guy that was beast through and through. So she still thinks she can just talk Gabe around into not destroying Vincent. Catherine, the queen of denial through much of season 2, finally will back herself into a corner that she has to come punching her way out of by episode's end (which kills Gabe, but she insists on reviving him. So still didn't see just how far down Gabe had completely gone.). In some ways, it is sweet that Catherine looks for and hopes for the best out of the men in her life. But this season, that really doesn't work out so well for her most of the time. And if Vincent wants to blame the wig, let him. "And Veronica has questions." And with that, she takes the keys and leaves. Catherine to Vincent in "Ever After." Meaning that Catherine will never quit until she has figured out what happened to the dead guy. Seriously, Vincent, you find that surprising? After how she hounded you in Season 1 for every last detail of her mom's case. "I'm not hear about my mom." Yeah, right. How many times did she say that? And you called her out on it then. So you know she won't leave any stone unturned. She is out for justice, no matter the cost. You should have learned that from a bullet to the gut. Yet it still takes the suburbs to finally bring the point home to Vincent. And Catherine is right in her assessment of Vincent: he can't let it go either. So he has to go ask the housewife if she arranged to murder her husband or not. So they really ARE made for each other. Even their most annoying personal traits are mirrored by the other. Both have to see something through to the end, especially when they think they are right. So stubborn. Both in need of justice after having been denied it themselves. Two sides to a coin, the yin to her yang. You get the point. "I just want to be with you here now." Catherine to Vincent in "Deja Vu." And she means it in that moment. And it is going to come back to bite her, you just know it. Sweet and romantic. But not practical. Especially given Vincent's condition. So we go from the kissing couple to the camera pulling back until we see the wild boar. It is the WAY that statue is positioned: the wild boar has paused in his flight and is looking back at what hunts it. Because it is always hunted. And looking backwards, even as it tries to move forwards. So technically, Catherine is right in that they only have the present moment since the future most likely will have more fleeing and looking over their shoulders. And Vincent is not going to be happy without a future with Catherine. VINCENT has been the one to talk over and over about the two of them deserving a future together. So he is going to want that future to start as soon as possible. Going to be interesting to see how Catherine reacts when new beasts and experiments start turning up in Season 3 that compromise their future. The future that she IS planning with Vincent, whether she wants to admit it or not. And we all KNOW that Vincent is going to take Beyonce's advice and put a ring on that! So love those one-liners that go back and forth between the two. Made me buy a few episodes from Season 2 that I otherwise would not have wanted to watch again. Made you just fall in love with VinCat all over again. So I'm with Jefferen in proclaiming all hail to the beautiful VinCat scenes with those sweet little lines and cute/adorable looks between the two! Yup! I can never say enough great things about Jay or KK and what they bring to BATB. If it was any other 2 people playing the roles of VinCat I dont think that some of those little one liners and little vincat moments wouldve been that great. Those little moments even in the midst of all the vincat happenings, especially the drama, separation, hurt, etc this season made things a little more bearable. If it wasnt for the moments and that pull I dont know if I wouldve made it through S2
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Sept 23, 2014 12:44:21 GMT -5
I know this is probably wrong, but these two threads (the best and worst of S2), and the discussions in each, prompted me to rewatch a little of S2, which only ended up inspiring me to watch my favorite scenes from S1! Realistically I can probably come up with my favorite scenes from S2 - a top five maybe, even a few favorite episodes, but truthfully speaking, very few scenes in S2 quite scratch the itch like the Tough Love, AMP, and Insatiable.
When you get down to it, my favorite scenes from S2 are the angst-filled ones, and really, for me at least, they are pretty few and far between. Because watching non-love driven awkward "love triangles" play out on screen, where one or the other of VinCat are feeling "angst-ridden" does not quite spell angst for me. I would rather watch scenes like the one in the artist's home in "Worth" from S1 which has so much more of everything angst filled than almost anything they did in S2.
Anyway, *sigh* here are my favorites scenes:
1. Beast is the New Black - the shower dance scene. Hands down, no contest, the best. 2. Kidnapped - the sandwich/kiss scene. 3. Kidnapped - the wrist massage "pull" scene. 4. Cold Case - "I'm still sleeping with a fugitive", "Not lately your not," end scene "nobody's watching" hot make-out scene. Yum. Rewind and watch again. Yes, she really did say it just like that. Bravo KK. Hot hot hot. And yes, she IS straddling him, and his hand is on her you know what. Balls to the wall, and I love it. 5. "Who am I" - the angst filled end scene, including the kiss. Honorable mentions 1. Operation Fake Date - Cardiac Tamponade scene, Dr. Keller to the rescue. Snuggles after saving Gabe. Ironic much? 2. Hothead - Angsty kiss before V. goes into the burning building to rescue Aaron. I love this WHOLE episode by the way. Why can't they make more like this one? Angst, flashbacks, V. the Hero, Hot kiss, more angst ... it's like it is an episode from S1 that got lost and ended up in S2. Weird. 3. About Last night - the morning after scene - "You didn't leave"... "I live here" - I love how this harks back to their very first night together and Insatiable, when she is surprised he is still there in the morning. 4. Catch me if you can - End scene and the dizzying effects of V. in a bathrobe. I would go weak in the knees too. By the way, this is not the way I wanted this to happen, but I get it. Most unrealistic moment ever, that she says she really still wants to be with Gabe? Yeah, dumb dumb dumb, but anyway, I still like this scene. 5. Liar Liar - The Dance and "I lied because I care about you" conversation.
There are other scenes that rate, but things that are going on in the foreground or background just grate on my nerves so much, I can't bring myself to put them on the list as they take place in episodes I wish I had never seen to begin with. I need a little pot in my brownies or a few bottles of wine to enjoy those moments (just kidding) and I've been awesomely sober for a very long time. There is too damn much white noise in S2, it ruins the music. I'll have to post my favorite episodes later. But there is a HUGE section of S2 that is just not worth considering.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 24, 2014 12:01:00 GMT -5
SpydancerLovesVinCat,
Love LOVE all the scenes that you chose. My only complaint with both the shower scene and the hot rooftop scene in "Cold Case" is that both get interrupted WAY too quickly. Especially given how many painful season 2 moments there were to watch, you would think they could have given us AT LEAST one AMP scene. But what we did get was still hot hot hot.
The "Who Am I?" scene was so interesting due to the way Jay played it. Vincent is both in and out of control, with and without passion, depending on the moment in the scene. He gets so caught up in Cat when they have eye contact and are face to face that he promises not to leave. And in that moment, looking into her eyes, you can see the emotion on his face and that he meant it. Then Heather's call/text comes in and breaks that eye contact and you see the control/programming come back into play with Vincent. And the way he is so obviously trying to then emotionally distance himself from Cat. So he leaves right after Cat falls asleep. (Which of course just starts the grounds for the mistrust that later the writers begin really amping up from 205 on.)
The dance scene from "Liar, Liar" also grows in my estimate each time that I watch it. You see how deeply connected the two already are, despite the lack of memories, because they can easily hurt each other so much. Yet despite the hurt and misunderstanding, they each want to continue the dance, so to speak, of being in a relationship together. Even when Cat ends the dance with the comment that SpydancerLovesVinCat mentions, Vincent clearly starts following after Cat on instinct until Sebastian interrupts him. And clearly Sebastian can see how much Catherine means to Vincent as he immediately threatens Cat. And the look on Vincent's face and his immediate actions show that Sebastian's threat hit home for him. Suddenly, it is not about the mission but about protecting his Catherine. And the true acknowledgment of the emotional depth of his relationship to Cat, coupled with adrenaline and saving Cat, causes Vincent to FINALLY have memory flashes of Catherine. It is like his brain can't take repressing Cat anymore. And the second Vincent has even a little memory flash of Catherine, he wants more, AND he wants to be with Cat. He is desperate to spend more time with her and get back to where they obviously were. That last scene on the fire escape shows a vulnerable Vincent pleading for Cat to take him back.
SpydancerLovesVinCat, I agree with your assessment entirely of "Hothead." So help me, it seemed so Season 1. Vincent and Cat just CAN'T deal with being apart from one another. Each is consumed by thoughts of the other. (And it just is so funny that their sexual tension just oozes out of them to the point that each just wants to pummel something because they aren't allowing themselves the release with one another that they both want. Freud would have so much fun with the whole first half of this episode!) So both just get into fights because they are both so frustrated and upset with the situation. And Cat wants her "me" time, yet she cannot stop thinking about Vincent and how to get him back. And Vincent actually HANGS UP on his handler and chews him out because he wants the missions over and done with so he can get his woman back! And that was with only a couple of flashes of Cat. She consumes him, just like the flames almost did. And Vincent will just blindly run into a situation in order to get the missions over and done with as soon as possible so he can go back to Cat.
And the hospital scene in "Hothead" is just so great for so many reasons. Catherine's insecurity when she asks Vincent if he wants to remember her. And his reply of "more than anything." He is so desperate to get back to Cat. And Cat makes it clear that she wants a meaningful relationship where both parties disclose the details of their lives. And Vincent clearly wants this, too, as he is understanding of Cat's comment about not knowing how to keep him in her life if she can't know the details of his life. He admits that the decision to keep him out wasn't one he liked but was a choice that he could understand, given the circumstances. Even the joking between them is there when Vincent tells her that he doesn't want to be a donkey's butt in her life, and she says, "too late." And Vincent tells her that he doesn't want to lie to her. Clearly, the pull is acknowledged to be love by both parties. And each wants desperately to find a way back to the other. And when Vincent's handler tells him to stay away from anything that could cause his memories to come back, Vincent just basically makes a feeble attempt to get Cat to leave at the boathouse BUT is then obviously glad when she insists on staying. And Cat isn't trying to get into his laptop. She is just waiting at the boathouse to make sure that Vincent is all right. And to help him. And then they work together on the case JUST LIKE they would do in Season 1. When Vincent worries about what Aaron will think, Cat reassures him and tells him she will get him out of there. Vincent listens to Cat, accepts her plan, and acts on it WITH HER. And EACH OF THEM respects the other's choices (such as letting Vincent go into the burning building after his nephew). And I REALLY LOVE how Vincent is seemingly back to his normal, rational self in this moment. He explains to Cat that he is not just going into the building without a plan. He knows not to just randomly attack the other beast and has learned from his previous encounter. By the end of "Hothead," VinCat seemed well on the way to recovery. Cat is back to spending time with Vincent and goes to the memorial with him. And they just can't not touch one another and reassure each other that they are there. And each acknowledges the importance of honesty and open communication. And Cat seemingly acknowledges that she doesn't want space AND wants to be with Vincent, even if it is just walking along the street together talking. I even expected Vincent to work WITH Cat moving forward with his missions. (And these themes WERE so many of the themes of Season 1 --opening up to the other person despite the danger, working through cases together, including one another in decisions and being honest about what is going on.)
So I was NOT prepared for the episode after "Hothead" where Cat suddenly seems to have better things to do then be with Vincent and is also rather whiney about not getting her own time. I mean, in "Hothead," during her "own time," all she could do was think about Vincent and getting back with him. So in "Reunion" Cat seems to have done a complete 180 degree turnaround. I could go on and on about what bothered me about "Reunion" as you could see where the writers were fixing to take us. Gabe was flirting with Cat on the phone, and he was her go-to person in trying to find her father. She was able to talk to HIM more than Vincent. Okay, should save this for the Worst Scenes/Episodes discussion.
At any rate, "Hothead" is one of the only Season 2 episodes that I absolutely love from beginning to end. I LOVE the emotional gambit that Vincent AND Catherine go through in this episode. The range of emotions, from anger and rage, resentment and attachment, love and understanding that the two both go through all in one episode. It was so reminiscent of Season 1's second and third episodes. Each of them is in denial about their relationship and their mutual need for one another at some part of the episode. Neither is sure of how to build the relationship, which reminded me of the rain scene with VinCat outside of the club from Season 1. Yet they come to a mutual understanding by episode's end, same as in Season 1's episode 3 that ended on the fire escape with Vincent giving Catherine his burner phone number. Although I love "Catch Me If You Can" for many of its scenes (the car crash, Cat's finding Vincent in the wreckage of the building, the end scene), part of the episode was still graiting as Catherine was still so pro-Gabe despite his demands of her for much of the episode. Catherine certainly shouldn't have been having to explain to Gabe why Vincent was in the car as the jaws of life were having to be used to rescue her. That should have told her everything right there. And 216 has Gabe moments I don't like as well. And "Kidnapping" would have been my absolute favorite had the episode ended after the bedroom scene.
So I guess that is my problem as well with so much of Season 2 episodes. I liked scenes from certain episodes. But there were certain episodes that I found no real redemptive value and things that I cringed at. There are still episodes I won't re-watch again from Season 2. I guess that it is due to the beautiful power of VinCat that there are certain scenes that ARE so good that kept me watching and keep me still so VinCat-loving. No matter the mistakes, the relationship is just too powerful to deny. But the writers and showrunners REALLY owe us some great scenes in Season 3 for all the hours of horror that we had to view last season.
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Post by ArwenFan on Sept 30, 2014 18:34:29 GMT -5
Pretty much agree with Beastie Boy's list. Although I have a slightly different all time favorites line up:
1. Catch Me If You Can 2. About Last Night 3. Cat and Mouse 4. Cold Case 5. Liar, Liar 6. Kidnapped 7. Deja Vu 8. Recipe for Disaster 9. Ancestors 10. Who Am I?
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Oct 2, 2014 10:29:36 GMT -5
From strictly a list point-of-view, my favorites are as follows:
#1 About Last Night #2 Catch Me If You Can #3 Hothead #4 Beast Is The New Black #5 Kidnapped #6 Operation Fake Date #7 Held Hostage #8 Recipe For Disaster #9 Cold Case #10 Liar, Liar #11 Who Am I? #12 Cat and Mouse #13 Deja Vu #14 Redemption #15 Reunion #16 Till Death #17 Ever After
The rest, I just don't like. They may have scenes in them that I find memorable, but only because there was great acting that you have to appreciate, even if you don't like the storyline.
For those who wonder how on Earth could Redemption and Till Death make my list, I will just say that "Redemption" revealed that VinCat can't get away from one another, even in their dreams. And I liked seeing their hopes (Vincent) and fears (Catherine) that neither could really express aloud. And the dreams turn out to be oddly prophetic, in some ways. Vincent really DOES want Cat back AND uses some of the same words as occur in Cat's dream at the end (which just shows how well Cat really knows him). Cat will discuss her dream with Tess in 215 and recognize that she still very much has Vincent on the brain, despite every attempt to make him go away. And Redemption has Vincent actively wanting Cat back (and trying to act in a manner that will get her back) and realizing just how much he has lost as a result of his life decisions. Also, Catherine is only really able to discuss how shooting Jacob affected her with Vincent. So you can see that he is still her go-to person, no matter what. And Vincent is able to tell Cat that he is pleased that she is still noticing his own personal efforts towards redemption. So "Redemption" had a lot to appreciate, despite the nausea-inducing scenes with Gabe. You see Gabe already realize that although he just got together with Cat, he is already feeling like the third wheel by the end of the episode. And "Till Death" has Vincent saving Gabe and showing himself to be the better man, thus showing he is already on the path to redemption. And yes, Vincent had to see Cat kiss Gabe along with the rest of us, but at that point in the season, I felt Vincent deserved that since he had paraded Tori in front of Cat. Again, I certainly would have rather than hadn't happened (either one of the vices that were Gabe and Tori), but I felt the episodes had enough of where VinCat's heart really was to warrant re-watches and scene examinations whereas I could barely stomach the TVGuide re-watches of "Father Knows Best," "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?," "Man or Beast," "Don't Die on Me" and "Ancestors."
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