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Post by raniamahd on Sept 15, 2014 15:23:19 GMT -5
he always felt so undeserving of Catherine when V finally realizes that he can trust Cat and he wants to be the man worthy enough of her love He never really felt like he deserved Catherine in S1. But by the time VinCat comes back together in S2, V feels worthy and confident of everything he has and deserves and it obvious on screen. And you can tell that nothing and no one will get in his way of his happily ever after with Cat and that he isnt going to be running anywhere. He wants Catherine and their life together and knows it might not be smooth sailing, but they deserve a future and wont back down because of an obstacle and that whatever gets in the way of them, they will overcome it and it will be VinCat in the end. And that is what I love so much about VinCat 3.0. I didnt feel like that in S1 when I refer to VinCat being unbreakable. Good point of view , and i agree with much of your post and i 100% agree with this part although i have major issues with S2 and i am not convinced with the ways and the roads they took to reach to the result they had in season 2 final but i agree that Vincent in the end of S2 is much stronger and confident than he was in S1 ! V S1 had one choice when anything goes wrong ? simply to runaway and give up ! he even admitted to Tori in ep 2/9 ! that is what he knows , he didn't know how to fight for what he wants because he didn't feel worthy , as Cat said to him in the same episode she was always the only one who fight for them , she kept telling him in S1 that running away is not an option but he kept doing it because he didn't feel worthy of her and her love and he didn't know anymore how to fight ! so it was great to see him finally redeemed himself , feels worthy , had self confident and fight for the precious things he shares with Cat , it was refreshing and amazing for me to watch him talking about fighting together instead of running away in ep2/18 and actually went for it ! so yes i totally agree that V's character grew up and developed for the best by S2 ending , that is a good thing we gain from S2 ! |
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Sept 18, 2014 9:52:44 GMT -5
The song "Burn" that was used for the promo for S2 came on last night when I was driving home from my second baby shower, and boy did that ever take me back to all of the feelings I had, and anticipation for the second season.... I got really nostalgic for all of the possibilities that seemed present when they started the second season. I actually had a moment of clarity, when I remembered 2x01, and the anticipation of what was to come, and then I got angry... and sad. I guess I am a die hard, and will go down fighting, until my last breath, for everything that was wrong about S2 - I'll never get over it. I've certainly had time and space, to change my tune, but the truth is that I hear one little song, and it all comes rushing back at me, like a nightmare that never ends... and cuts like a knife straight through to the heart of the matter. Ugh. Anyway, It was well after 10pm, dark, and there was lightening flashing in the distance, the threat of a storm, small sprinkling of rain, the hum of the car on the highway, and the song... All of this combined to produce a feeling that I haven't had in a long while, hope and anticipation for BATB. I mean, yes, I have hopes for S3, but for me at least, nothing is like it was. They took something beautiful and dragged it through the mud, breaking the heart of the show over and over and over again. It plays like a bad record, skipping, in my memory, and there is just no complete fix for the things that were broken. My family lives in Northern California, and recently weathered the earthquake. Although no family heirlooms were lost to my family, our family doctor lost countless irreplaceable pieces of china and crystal that belonged to his mother, who is long gone. You cannot just glue those things together, and put them back on the shelf, a quick fix does not hardly numb the heartache for that which was lost. I know that comparing lost family heirlooms to a tv show probably seems dumb, but the show that was created in S1, although new and different, was quite beautiful and irreplaceable. It was special. And yes, there were completely beautiful and special things that happened, some of them, completely breath taking, towards the end of S2, but those things, no matter how beautiful, cannot ease the ache, not for me at least, of all of the things they deliberately broke in S2. Anyway, I will stop waxing poetic and get back to the moment of clarity that I had there in the darkness, and then the harshness of the reality that hit me when the song nearly ended and the rest of S2 came rushing back at me. What I remembered was the promos, and then 2x01 or "Who am I?" I was in love with the possibilities back then. Although I did not love the choice to have Vincent lose his memories, 2x01 was full of so many things that I loved... I loved the enigma that was the new Vincent and the way he seemed strangely drawn to Catherine. I loved that they were estranged from each other, yet something in him responded to her, on an instinctual level, particularly at the end of the angst filled episode, the way that he was drawn to her desperation and her tears, and the angst filled kiss that ensued. For me that moment was literally pregnant with possibilities, and I was overwhelmed with the magic that spread out before us in S2. It was like discovering the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and I could not wait to dive in... but then of course, all the memories of everything that actually happened came rushing back at me, and I felt the crushing disappointment all over again, and once again I thought what an utter waste of more than half a season. It was sad, and the disappointment felt fresh all over again. Back to my moment of clarity. I guess it goes back to the enigma that was S2 Vincent, and that strange "pull" that he felt towards Catherine... I imagined a season filled with angst, one tentative step forward, followed by two steps back as they moved in ever narrowing and spiraling circles back towards one another. I felt like there were endless possibilities with him feeling drawn to her, yet not understanding the depth of their connection. None of it ever left open the possibility for outside love interests or exploring relationships with others - not in my book anyway. I loved the otherworldly pull, and wanted to explore it until we were all sick of it. You know, and to be honest, despite the shove heard around the world, I felt like they did alright with that concept for 2 or 3 episodes (maybe more), until the show seemed to lose focus and head, quite deliberately in another direction. And that is when it all fell apart for me, the Gabe agenda, hitting us like an anvil over the head, read through Tess's scripting (sad that they misused her in this way), JT being pushed into the background like superfluous scenery, in favor of new characters and story lines  , like the shallow she-beast and bucket of cringe inducing plot devices. Anyway, I digress. Even after all this time, none of it makes sense to me. The heart of the show got lost in the minutia. I wanted angst and heartache, love, laughter, and loss, not plot devices and (excuse me if I say it) sex-buddies. Even if the over-arching story was meant to be beautiful, angst-ridden and heartbreaking, the misuse of inauthentic feeling plot devices and love triangles drove S2 straight through the mud and got us stuck there. It is not that I cannot see the forrest for the trees, it is that I got so tired of crappy choices, and lack of creativity in how we got from point A to point B that I literally didn't care anymore. Except that I did care, just not for S2. I cared that the show that I loved was so sullied by indiscretion and bad choices. What did they take us for, teenagers? It is offensive, to this day, to me at least, that they could not think of a more creative way to go about things. And even if, even if you can say that the "she-beast" was necessary to telling their story, why did she have to be a sex-buddy as well? To what end did this help justify their means? What was the point? There wasn't one, as far as I can tell, other than shock value, and THEIR (TPTB) need for the beast to get his beast on with someone else. I go back to the tortured and conflicted character we saw at the beginning of S2 - and wonder how much more gratifying the story would have been without this plot-device of a woman/beast with whom to frame his side of the story. It would have been more interesting, in fact, to watch him lose his humanity, and then get it back, without a seemingly pointless side-kick and sex-buddy. The whole thing came off like a tree falling in the forrest without anyone there to hear the sound... so it remains ever debatable whether there was one at all. Pointless. That is still how it feels to me. As for Gabe and Catherine... even worse. Any relationship with a man, going on a few dates, or even just a friendship, could have been used to drive Vincent back towards his true feelings, why then the need for a meaningless sexual tryst in Mexico and the cringe inducing "I loved you" lines from Catherine to Gabe? None of us bought into this crock of sheila, and it felt alot like bad TV. Anyway, I remain, as ever, unconvinced, not so much by Vincent's loss of himself to his beast side, or of his character's journey, or the way that he and Catherine moved back towards one another, or her broken-ness and bad choices, but by the plot devices and characters that they used to accomplish this story. It was pretty inauthentic, unoriginal, and cringe-worthy, from beginning, to end. Pure as the driven slush - or worse, much much worse, pure as the driven mud. I'm sorry to rehash it all. I wish I could describe better the way I see things. It's not the over-arching story, not the shove or the shot, or the loss of humanity, or Catherine losing herself somewhere along the way, it's more the motion picture of bad TV that played before our eyes in the meantime, the devices they used to get from beginning to end. It hurts my eyes, and my heart, and I literally hate watching it, I don't like remembering it, and honestly I wish much of it had never happened. But there are no take backs, and in the end, well, there it is. A second season that pales compared to the first, a nauseating parade of plot-devices and characters used to push an agenda through, a story, not about epic love, but about mundane love triangles. Can I see beyond the mess? Yes, but I still don't understand why with so little an endeavor towards protecting the sanctity of "epic love" they bull dozed over the characters and stories that actually give the show a beating heart. |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 22, 2014 12:14:37 GMT -5
I freely admit that I have many moments when I share SpydancerLovesVincat's feelings regarding Season 2. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE BATB and always will. I can justify what I saw on my screen, and I can even see what the writers were trying to accomplish. At the end of the day, however, I still would have MUCH rather done without the love triangles. And I'm still mad about things I saw on my screen this past season. I admit that, although I still watch and re-watch much of Season 2. Again, get where they were going, BUT I wanted a different journey.
It does still feel to me as if the chosen direction was to sully characters that didn't need to be made dirty. I can appreciate showing a character's weakness in order to show how they can become stronger, but I didn't need for them to take the path that they did. Everyone was so battered coming out of the 3 months that were not even on our screen that the characters were presented as completely "changed" at the beginning of Season 2 due to what had happened in the last episode of Season 1. And I do mean EVERYBODY. JT had obviously lost Sarah, although nothing was ever said about the ending to that relationship. Tess was so bitter from her relationship ending with Joe who had been consumed by obsession. And Tess naturally projected her situation on Cat so was not supportive or helpful to Cat when she actually most needed it. And Tess didn't return to encouraging Cat to choose her heart until after she got with JT. No offense, but I believe a woman CAN choose to be independent and give good advice whether in a relationship or not. So Tess being bitter and sabotaging Cat, to some attempt, just because she herself was alone didn't sit well with me. I mean, Tess chose to get involved with her Boss who was married. That could never end entirely well. Yet she encouraged Cat to get involved with her own boss. And whether or not we like to admit it, the writers DID bring the topic of domestic violence into the mix by having Vincent shove Cat. Doesn't matter that he can't remember her. He knew by that time that they HAD been in a relationship, and he had certainly not minded exploiting and trying to get that relationship back when it served him. By making Beasties come up with excuses to try to call it something other than domestic violence just shows how much problems still arise in our own court system with these very issues. People even said Cat deserved being hit for questioning Vincent, and again, that is so much of the problem of domestic violence. Cat hides the thing and tries to rationalize that it wasn't domestic violence, etc. Again, WHY do that to Beasties or to the characters that we love? This is supposed to be fantasy escapism. Vincent would have NEVER done that to Cat in Season 1--it was sort of the cannon rule. Came from the original series. Even when Vincent got poisoned and went crazy briefly in the original series, just the touch of Catherine was enough to cause him to come to his senses. No violence ever directed towards her. I get the whole torture angle, but the writers just didn't have to go there and make us question the characters that we love. I get that the writers were trying to show how close to the edge Vincent was due to what had happened to himself so that he wasn't even comfortable in his own skin and responded to everything with anger and violence. So I try to see the angle they were going for, but it doesn't mean you get to ignore the implications, either way. Cat was shown during most of the season as doing questionable things to maintain relationships that weren't necessarily healthy for her. And Vincent immediately jumping into a relationship with Tori? When he couldn't even stand to be in a conversation with her and with everything awkward outside of the bedroom? He didn't even like the choices that Tori was making for him, such as going on talk shows and telling more "lies," so why would he just basically live with her? Especially when he began to know that he wanted Catherine back.
Again, the above just messes with your head. And there are literally hundreds of posts arguing back and forth as to the above issues that were presented and what sides the fans took regarding the various issues. And that was the problem, because NONE of the fans liked the issues whether arguing/defending the characters or not. So the show nearly tanked due to this season and what was done to the characters.
I often argue for what I saw on my screen during Season 2 as it is the version of events that the writers chose to tell. That is what was on my screen, and I try to make sense of it by imagining or interpreting both what I saw and what was deliberately left out. And Jay and KK make me love the characters no matter what, although there were still times that I didn't like each one of the characters at points in the season. Jay and KK made me FEEL the pain of the characters. So I could not help but see and appreciate the growth that came thereafter. I still do like parts of Season 2, especially once VinCat got back together. And I try to appreciate the story I got even though it is not the story I wanted.
That is the one thread that no one has started, the What I Wanted to See in Season 2. I still think the writers could have brought in Tori and had her be the one that encouraged Vincent to go after Reynolds. But I would have wanted to have seen more about Tori's motivations. I would have liked to see her deliberately trying to sabotage Cat and blame Cat for her own father's demise. And rather than get involved with Tori, I would have liked for Vincent to have tried to get to know Tori as a person and to have continued serving as her mentor. And then have Tori continue to use her powers for ill purposes and have Vincent increasingly aware that he sides with Cat's side of morality. I could even take the Vincent being shot as it occurred on the screen. However, I would have liked to have seen that Vincent just couldn't let go of Cat, despite his anger. How he would have still felt that pull towards her that nothing and no one could come between. And have Vincent literally UNABLE to consummate a relationship with Tori because he wants to be with Cat, no matter what. And see Vincent actually struggling once he REALLY remembers Cat. I mean, I would have had Vincent sneaking at night to the fire escape just to peak in on Cat while she slept and to have had Vincent secretly following her again. Which would have caused Tori eventually to have attacked Cat so that we could get Tori out of the picture because Vincent would then fully have that wake-up call that he needed. And Vincent would not have hesitated to jump in and protect Cat. Maybe try to talk Tori down as he did Sam, but Tori would then prove to be too far gone and evil. I just wanted to have seen that the VinCat pull was stronger than anything and that the love was truly epic WITHOUT having to resort to love triangles. Especially such poor choices for the third wheels.
I will refer to how I felt about SMALLVILLE to conclude this rant. I HATED that Lana got with Lex. I mean, really? She had to have known that Lex wasn't trustworthy. And she knew Clark's character and that he had tried to be friends with Lex and save him. Again, everyone on Smallville ended up with someone else at one point or another. And it actually worked for many viewers. If you look at fanfiction and websites, you see that there are many fans for the various different pairings. For myself, despite knowing how the Superman mythology was supposed to end and that Clark and Lana were supposed to be star-crossed, I was annoyed and appalled by seeing Lana so easily able to seemingly forget Clark. But this was standard procedure for Smallville to have characters in and out of love and constantly debating who should be with which character. HOWEVER, for a show like BATB, where the show is SUPPOSED to be about the epic love of ONE couple, there isn't really room for anything else if you want it to be a truly untarnished epic. SMALLVILLE showed that Clark basically had TWO loves of his life: Lana and Lois. And that the only reason he wasn't with Lana was because he couldn't be due to the actions of Lex. And a lot of people resented how this presentation of the character did not go with the typical Superman mythology of Lois Lane being the sole love of his life. For BATB, we expected to see how Vincent and Catherine were meant to be and are the love of each other's life. And while season 2 ultimately DOES go with this plot for endgame, you still had to see the main characters settling for people without complaint which should not have even been on the table after the relationship that they had had with each other previously. Such weak third choices shouldn't have to be justified against such a great love, no matter what tests are hurled their way. The typical tv formula shouldn't be applied to BATB.
Yeah, obviously, still bitter about parts of Season 2. Yes, the characters are now back together and stronger than ever. Just didn't want them made so weak and fickle-looking to get them to that place. I thought their foundation was much stronger than that, even if Vincent didn't have all of his memories.
I AM looking forward to Season 3 because the characters are now where they really should have been earlier. And I love who they are now. So I accept what came on my screen beforehand (although I would have rather Beasties had written Season 2!). I even defend what I see on Season 2 in order to justify why people should still watch although there were definitely painful moments. To have come through all the painful, questionable, judgment-impairing moments to find each other again was a journey worth watching, even if I wanted the love interests and questionable moments gone. Through pain came growth. As always, love BATB and VinCat, no matter what. I'm glad we have the kind of VinCat that we love back. But I still have moments where I agree EXACTLY with where SpyDancer is coming from. Okay, end rant. Hopefully, my last rant. Just good VinCat goodness to look forward to.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Sept 22, 2014 14:04:46 GMT -5
I freely admit that I have many moments when I share SpydancerLovesVincat's feelings regarding Season 2. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE BATB and always will. I can justify what I saw on my screen, and I can even see what the writers were trying to accomplish. At the end of the day, however, I still would have MUCH rather done without the love triangles. And I'm still mad about things I saw on my screen this past season. I admit that, although I still watch and re-watch much of Season 2. Again, get where they were going, BUT I wanted a different journey. It does still feel to me as if the chosen direction was to sully characters that didn't need to be made dirty. I can appreciate showing a character's weakness in order to show how they can become stronger, but I didn't need for them to take the path that they did. Everyone was so battered coming out of the 3 months that were not even on our screen that the characters were presented as completely "changed" at the beginning of Season 2 due to what had happened in the last episode of Season 1. And I do mean EVERYBODY. JT had obviously lost Sarah, although nothing was ever said about the ending to that relationship. Tess was so bitter from her relationship ending with Joe who had been consumed by obsession. And Tess naturally projected her situation on Cat so was not supportive or helpful to Cat when she actually most needed it. And Tess didn't return to encouraging Cat to choose her heart until after she got with JT. No offense, but I believe a woman CAN choose to be independent and give good advice whether in a relationship or not. So Tess being bitter and sabotaging Cat, to some attempt, just because she herself was alone didn't sit well with me. I mean, Tess chose to get involved with her Boss who was married. That could never end entirely well. Yet she encouraged Cat to get involved with her own boss. And whether or not we like to admit it, the writers DID bring the topic of domestic violence into the mix by having Vincent shove Cat. Doesn't matter that he can't remember her. He knew by that time that they HAD been in a relationship, and he had certainly not minded exploiting and trying to get that relationship back when it served him. By making Beasties come up with excuses to try to call it something other than domestic violence just shows how much problems still arise in our own court system with these very issues. People even said Cat deserved being hit for questioning Vincent, and again, that is so much of the problem of domestic violence. Cat hides the thing and tries to rationalize that it wasn't domestic violence, etc. Again, WHY do that to Beasties or to the characters that we love? This is supposed to be fantasy escapism. Vincent would have NEVER done that to Cat in Season 1--it was sort of the cannon rule. Came from the original series. Even when Vincent got poisoned and went crazy briefly in the original series, just the touch of Catherine was enough to cause him to come to his senses. No violence ever directed towards her. I get the whole torture angle, but the writers just didn't have to go there and make us question the characters that we love. I get that the writers were trying to show how close to the edge Vincent was due to what had happened to himself so that he wasn't even comfortable in his own skin and responded to everything with anger and violence. So I try to see the angle they were going for, but it doesn't mean you get to ignore the implications, either way. Cat was shown during most of the season as doing questionable things to maintain relationships that weren't necessarily healthy for her. And Vincent immediately jumping into a relationship with Tori? When he couldn't even stand to be in a conversation with her and with everything awkward outside of the bedroom? He didn't even like the choices that Tori was making for him, such as going on talk shows and telling more "lies," so why would he just basically live with her? Especially when he began to know that he wanted Catherine back. Again, the above just messes with your head. And there are literally hundreds of posts arguing back and forth as to the above issues that were presented and what sides the fans took regarding the various issues. And that was the problem, because NONE of the fans liked the issues whether arguing/defending the characters or not. So the show nearly tanked due to this season and what was done to the characters. Yeah, obviously, still bitter about parts of Season 2. Yes, the characters are now back together and stronger than ever. Just didn't want them made so weak and fickle-looking to get them to that place. I thought their foundation was much stronger than that, even if Vincent didn't have all of his memories. I AM looking forward to Season 3 because the characters are now where they really should have been earlier. And I love who they are now. So I accept what came on my screen beforehand (although I would have rather Beasties had written Season 2!). I even defend what I see on Season 2 in order to justify why people should still watch although there were definitely painful moments. To have come through all the painful, questionable, judgment-impairing moments to find each other again was a journey worth watching, even if I wanted the love interests and questionable moments gone. Through pain came growth. As always, love BATB and VinCat, no matter what. I'm glad we have the kind of VinCat that we love back. But I still have moments where I agree EXACTLY with where SpyDancer is coming from. Okay, end rant. Hopefully, my last rant. Just good VinCat goodness to look forward to. I agree with you completely, except in my case I lost the fire I had before where I had the energy to argue for some of choices I saw onscreen. Although I'm still passionate about Vincat, and particularly our wonderful cast and crew, the passion I had for the show nearly burned out. It's not that I dislike the show, I just can't justify the choices I saw onscreen - too many bad, cringe inducing moments. I just can't. And to make matters worse, S2 itself, or at least half of it, feels completely forgettable. I haven't decided if I will buy the DVD - maybe yes, but still the feeling remains that I am wasting a lot of money if and when I do, in that I don't ever want to watch about half (or more) of that DVD. I could do without a large portion of S2, wish I had just stopped watching around the turkey trauma and come back when it was all good and done. I know I'm in the minority with the depth of my dislike, but when it all came rushing back at me last week, and I remembered how I felt before, well it was obvious how much I dislike S2. I can't justify it. I just can't make myself like it, just because I love love LOVED the show, and the cast, and especially VinCat before all of this. It's like superglue on china. S2 just shattered me, I'm glued together again, but I'll never be back to how I was before. Anyway, it felt good having that moment of clarity, feeling how it felt, and writing what I did... cathartic. Like getting rid of bad juju. I know it is all water under the bridge now, but for fans like me, it isn't really. |
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Post by raniamahd on Sept 29, 2014 7:43:16 GMT -5
saveeachotherbatb.com/post/104709/threadOK , i thought its better to reply to anapi -season3baby :) here since it doesn't directly relate to the vote topic the bold part makes a logical question to me here : what is the point then or the big purpose of Gabe's character between those two point ?! what did Gabe add to S2 storyline ? why saving him in the beginning to killed him in the end and by the same person who saved him ?! imho there was no point or good purpose at all ! Gabe's character was expired in S2 ! they shouldn't bring him from death in the first place ! instead they should be more creative and came up with more original make sense storyline ! instead of running into a repeating circle to reach the same result ! they even wasted a good actor's talent like SR in this weak storyline ! unless they want to give Cat the chance to correct her mistake and never interfere in fate's work again ?! some people should be dead and stay dead for everybody safety , she can't save everybody no matter how much she wanted ! but Cat did save him in S2 first ep not in S1 ? so the only reason i have in my mind is that they really like SR and wanted to keep him in the show but didn't know how to involve him in a creative original storyline instead ! but still doesn't justify wasting almost the whole S2 in poor repeated meaningless storyline !
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Sept 29, 2014 8:51:04 GMT -5
saveeachotherbatb.com/post/104709/threadOK , i thought its better to reply to anapi -season3baby :) here since it doesn't directly relate to the vote topic the bold part makes a logical question to me here : what is the point then or the big purpose of Gabe's character between those two point ?! what did Gabe add to S2 storyline ? why saving him in the beginning to killed him in the end and by the same person who saved him ?! imho there was no point or good purpose at all ! Gabe's character was expired in S2 ! they shouldn't bring him from death in the first place ! instead they should be more creative and came up with more original make sense storyline ! instead of running into a repeating circle to reach the same result ! they even wasted a good actor's talent like SR in this weak storyline ! unless they want to give Cat the chance to correct her mistake and never interfere in fate's work again ?! some people should be dead and stay dead for everybody safety , she can't save everybody no matter how much she wanted ! but Cat did save him in S2 first ep not in S1 ? so the only reason i have in my mind is that they really like SR and wanted to keep him in the show but didn't know how to involve him in a creative original storyline instead ! but still doesn't justify wasting almost the whole S2 in poor repeated meaningless storyline ! yeah gabe was used so badly it hurts he could have remained a baddie plotting against vincat in the background while pretending to be nice - that would have been great. we only saw his "bad" side after episode 12 or so and we only saw some complexity in his character in episode 19 - i really liked him in episode 19 but all we got for the rest of the season was a characterless character. and he shoudl have definitely not been used as a love interest - anyone BUT him, wth.. oh well what is done is done, moving on  he is defo dead now |
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Post by jefferen on Sept 29, 2014 10:01:04 GMT -5
saveeachotherbatb.com/post/104709/threadOK , i thought its better to reply to anapi -season3baby :) here since it doesn't directly relate to the vote topic the bold part makes a logical question to me here : what is the point then or the big purpose of Gabe's character between those two point ?! what did Gabe add to S2 storyline ? why saving him in the beginning to killed him in the end and by the same person who saved him ?! imho there was no point or good purpose at all ! Gabe's character was expired in S2 ! they shouldn't bring him from death in the first place ! instead they should be more creative and came up with more original make sense storyline ! instead of running into a repeating circle to reach the same result ! they even wasted a good actor's talent like SR in this weak storyline ! unless they want to give Cat the chance to correct her mistake and never interfere in fate's work again ?! some people should be dead and stay dead for everybody safety , she can't save everybody no matter how much she wanted ! but Cat did save him in S2 first ep not in S1 ? so the only reason i have in my mind is that they really like SR and wanted to keep him in the show but didn't know how to involve him in a creative original storyline instead ! but still doesn't justify wasting almost the whole S2 in poor repeated meaningless storyline ! I agree. I loved Sendhill and he played the baddie so great, but the way the wrote him was basically to be redeemed so he could be a love interest for Cat. If they were gonna redeem they shouldve redeemed him as a Team Beastie member. And a legit team beastie member, who assists the rest of the team and thats all period. And by doing this and keeping the beast secret & not going after Cat, and actually apologizing he couldve actually been really redeemed. The vibe I got from him all season was that he was only "on" Team Beast bc of Cat and trying to win her over. He never had a real remorse over what he did to V in S1 and everything he did and said in S2 was basically about trying to impress Cat. And Gabe ultimately proved himself that the whole scene everything was just an act and that he never had an true intentions of making amends. Gabe and Tori shouldve gotten together bc both of them were spoiled and acted ridiculous and mean spirited, and made people feel sorry for them if they didnt get their way. |
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 29, 2014 14:08:26 GMT -5
That is part of the problem with Gabe. Where to put him. I mean, why would he ever become a part of Team Beast but for Cat? Gabe doesn't have anything in common with the others. Gabe would have wanted a beast-free lifestyle, so he would have tried to move on from a life of beasts. However, that was the thing with Gabe. His life was always about indulging one obsession after another. His obsession to find a cure, his obsession for vengeance against Muirfield, you get my point. And he never cared about the carnage or innocents caught in the middle of his battle, although he claimed to want justice/revenge for all Muirfield victims (unless their bodily organs could help him!). And we saw from the first time that Gabe saw Cat in the locker room that he was attracted to her (despite supposedly having a girlfriend). So Cat naturally became his obsession once the other obsessions came to an end suddenly. Gabe is nothing if not predictable. He must have something to possess and control and fixate on.
I really would have preferred seeing Patrick brought back. He could have become a bartender in some bar that Cat and Tess stumble into. And he would already have heard about who she really was. And he decides that he doesn't care. He is glad that she encouraged him to go straight and not be a criminal. And once he learned who Vincent really was (and that could have been done in some interesting way--he either stumbles upon Vincent while trailing Cat because he heard Russians wanted revenge for necklace or he figures things out through seeing Vincent and Tori in the papers), he could have started working with Cat on the case. Sort of the role that Dana ultimately took. And then after "Held Hostage," Vincent would have realized as a result of his jealousy that he didn't want Cat with anyone else but him. And Patrick could have been more sympathetic then Gabe ever could, because he would have chosen to help Cat and be loyal to Cat despite her having played him by being undercover. In fact, Patrick could have been grateful BECAUSE he knew that Cat chose to let him go rather than turn him over to the FBI, as she should have done. Patrick might have known more information about other heists that would have been relevant as well. So the gem could have been brought in much better and incorporated into more heists and shady dealings that would have involved more than just Sam. Would have made for a much better Season 2 in my opinion.
I will say that if we had to have Gabe as the love interest for Cat (again, YUCK, blah belch), at least the writers might could have written more towards explaining how it could happen. We all saw how Cat bottles her anger which then manifests in some MAJORLY intense rage. Why not have that rage misdirected towards Vincent for a time? She chooses Gabe almost as revenge. She decides that Vincent needs to be taken down, much the same way that Gabe did. That way, you sort of see Cat losing herself to the dark side almost by choice and having to pull herself back out by realizing what her rages and holding onto things have done to her. And her seeing that she really cannot care for Gabe at all and that the only reason he seemed appealing to her at all was her dark side sort of meeting Gabe's dark side. Could have been interesting to see a Dark Side to Cat rather than just her acting with bad judgment. I DOUBT that I would have liked this any better, but at least I would have found more sense in the pairing. (In other words, for other SMALLVILLE fans, it would be like how Lana almost succumbed to her dark side when she gained Clark's powers in Season 7 for an episode and was even attracted/obsessed with Lex at the same time she was trying to kill/harm him ONLY because her evil side recognized his evil side.) Cat would recognize that she had to get away from Gabe and was becoming something she did not recognize as a result of her relationship with Gabe. And Vincent could have been motivated to improve himself because he saw what Cat was becoming (she would be taking extreme risks, kind of like in "Ancestors," and would be needlessly endangering her life and harming herself. THIS would be the wake-up call Vincent needs, as he realizes that he can't let Cat die or go on being as she has become.).
Again, there is probably not anyway that I would have liked a Gabe/Cat pairing. But without the motivation to get with Cat, I cannot see Gabe having tried to be part of Team Beast. Gabe was never interested in just redemption for redemption's sake. It was always to get something more (Cat). For whatever reason, the writers and showrunners did not want to lose Sendhill's character. And while I like Sendhil, I freely admit that I never liked Gabe. I tried to appreciate where the writers were going and why. Some characters can't ever find redemption because they a) don't deserve it and b) are not truly sorry for what they did in the first place. Gabe had both of these problems.
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Post by jefferen on Sept 29, 2014 14:23:52 GMT -5
That is part of the problem with Gabe. Where to put him. I mean, why would he ever become a part of Team Beast but for Cat? Gabe doesn't have anything in common with the others. Gabe would have wanted a beast-free lifestyle, so he would have tried to move on from a life of beasts. However, that was the thing with Gabe. His life was always about indulging one obsession after another. His obsession to find a cure, his obsession for vengeance against Muirfield, you get my point. And he never cared about the carnage or innocents caught in the middle of his battle, although he claimed to want justice/revenge for all Muirfield victims (unless their bodily organs could help him!). And we saw from the first time that Gabe saw Cat in the locker room that he was attracted to her (despite supposedly having a girlfriend). So Cat naturally became his obsession once the other obsessions came to an end suddenly. Gabe is nothing if not predictable. He must have something to possess and control and fixate on. I really would have preferred seeing Patrick brought back. He could have become a bartender in some bar that Cat and Tess stumble into. And he would already have heard about who she really was. And he decides that he doesn't care. He is glad that she encouraged him to go straight and not be a criminal. And once he learned who Vincent really was (and that could have been done in some interesting way--he either stumbles upon Vincent while trailing Cat because he heard Russians wanted revenge for necklace or he figures things out through seeing Vincent and Tori in the papers), he could have started working with Cat on the case. Sort of the role that Dana ultimately took. And then after "Held Hostage," Vincent would have realized as a result of his jealousy that he didn't want Cat with anyone else but him. And Patrick could have been more sympathetic then Gabe ever could, because he would have chosen to help Cat and be loyal to Cat despite her having played him by being undercover. In fact, Patrick could have been grateful BECAUSE he knew that Cat chose to let him go rather than turn him over to the FBI, as she should have done. Patrick might have known more information about other heists that would have been relevant as well. So the gem could have been brought in much better and incorporated into more heists and shady dealings that would have involved more than just Sam. Would have made for a much better Season 2 in my opinion. I will say that if we had to have Gabe as the love interest for Cat (again, YUCK, blah belch), at least the writers might could have written more towards explaining how it could happen. We all saw how Cat bottles her anger which then manifests in some MAJORLY intense rage. Why not have that rage misdirected towards Vincent for a time? She chooses Gabe almost as revenge. She decides that Vincent needs to be taken down, much the same way that Gabe did. That way, you sort of see Cat losing herself to the dark side almost by choice and having to pull herself back out by realizing what her rages and holding onto things have done to her. And her seeing that she really cannot care for Gabe at all and that the only reason he seemed appealing to her at all was her dark side sort of meeting Gabe's dark side. Could have been interesting to see a Dark Side to Cat rather than just her acting with bad judgment. I DOUBT that I would have liked this any better, but at least I would have found more sense in the pairing. (In other words, for other SMALLVILLE fans, it would be like how Lana almost succumbed to her dark side when she gained Clark's powers in Season 7 for an episode and was even attracted/obsessed with Lex at the same time she was trying to kill/harm him ONLY because her evil side recognized his evil side.) Cat would recognize that she had to get away from Gabe and was becoming something she did not recognize as a result of her relationship with Gabe. And Vincent could have been motivated to improve himself because he saw what Cat was becoming (she would be taking extreme risks, kind of like in "Ancestors," and would be needlessly endangering her life and harming herself. THIS would be the wake-up call Vincent needs, as he realizes that he can't let Cat die or go on being as she has become.). Again, there is probably not anyway that I would have liked a Gabe/Cat pairing. But without the motivation to get with Cat, I cannot see Gabe having tried to be part of Team Beast. Gabe was never interested in just redemption for redemption's sake. It was always to get something more (Cat). For whatever reason, the writers and showrunners did not want to lose Sendhill's character. And while I like Sendhil, I freely admit that I never liked Gabe. I tried to appreciate where the writers were going and why. Some characters can't ever find redemption because they a) don't deserve it and b) are not truly sorry for what they did in the first place. Gabe had both of these problems. Amen! Yup! 100% agree. Gabe was never on Team Beast in hopes of proving himself and to make amends! It was all about getting Cat. And it was obvious. And it all came crashing down on him when Cat went back to Vincent. Cuz if it was really about making amends, I understand Gabe being hurt but if he had an moral ethics and really wanted to make amends and it wasnt just about getting Cat he wouldve never went the lengths he did in S2 after Cat broke up w/ him |
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Post by BeastieBoy on Oct 4, 2014 4:49:52 GMT -5
Slightly off topic, but this is the Everything thread...
I found it quite the coincidence that 3 BATB actors were featured on this Friday night's episode of Hawaii 5-0. Did anyone else see it?
S3's Natasha Henstridge (Carol), S2's Anthony Ruivivar (Agent Knox), and S1's Brian White (Joe Bishop) were all guess stars on tonight's episode of H50. BTW, Brian was awesome in his portrayal of the grief stricken dad.
Just seeing these actors on the same show made me wish BATB S3 would start airing soon!
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Oct 5, 2014 14:30:19 GMT -5
saveeachotherbatb.com/post/104709/threadOK , i thought its better to reply to anapi -season3baby :) here since it doesn't directly relate to the vote topic the bold part makes a logical question to me here : what is the point then or the big purpose of Gabe's character between those two point ?! what did Gabe add to S2 storyline ? why saving him in the beginning to killed him in the end and by the same person who saved him ?! imho there was no point or good purpose at all ! Gabe's character was expired in S2 ! they shouldn't bring him from death in the first place ! instead they should be more creative and came up with more original make sense storyline ! instead of running into a repeating circle to reach the same result ! they even wasted a good actor's talent like SR in this weak storyline ! unless they want to give Cat the chance to correct her mistake and never interfere in fate's work again ?! some people should be dead and stay dead for everybody safety , she can't save everybody no matter how much she wanted ! but Cat did save him in S2 first ep not in S1 ? so the only reason i have in my mind is that they really like SR and wanted to keep him in the show but didn't know how to involve him in a creative original storyline instead ! but still doesn't justify wasting almost the whole S2 in poor repeated meaningless storyline ! yeah gabe was used so badly it hurts he could have remained a baddie plotting against vincat in the background while pretending to be nice - that would have been great. we only saw his "bad" side after episode 12 or so and we only saw some complexity in his character in episode 19 - i really liked him in episode 19 but all we got for the rest of the season was a characterless character. and he shoudl have definitely not been used as a love interest - anyone BUT him, wth.. oh well what is done is done, moving on he is defo dead now I think the use of Gabe in S2 falls into the category of - "just because you have the thought, doesn't mean it is a good one." TPTB had Sendhil, and they were trying to make the best use of him and the "Gabe"character, it seems like they just didn't think it though all the way. Either that or they were just deluded about his ability to fit in the way that they were trying to use him. He was and always will be a square peg that they tried to fit in a round hole. Just because you can do it, or force the fit, doesn't make it a good plan. Anyway, it makes me angry when I think about it. Because in reality, it didn't ever work. We were annoyed from the get go when Tess was just making the suggestion, which was a poor use of her character as well... (but that is another gripe) They needed to bring in new blood if they wanted to have a quote "love" interest (i.e. sex buddy) for Catherine. Of course they tried that with the she beast and we saw how well that worked out...Anyway, water under the bridge. |
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Post by jefferen on Oct 5, 2014 17:54:24 GMT -5
yeah gabe was used so badly it hurts he could have remained a baddie plotting against vincat in the background while pretending to be nice - that would have been great. we only saw his "bad" side after episode 12 or so and we only saw some complexity in his character in episode 19 - i really liked him in episode 19 but all we got for the rest of the season was a characterless character. and he shoudl have definitely not been used as a love interest - anyone BUT him, wth.. oh well what is done is done, moving on he is defo dead now I think the use of Gabe in S2 falls into the category of - "just because you have the thought, doesn't mean it is a good one." TPTB had Sendhil, and they were trying to make the best use of him and the "Gabe"character, it seems like they just didn't think it though all the way. Either that or they were just deluded about his ability to fit in the way that they were trying to use him. He was and always will be a square peg that they tried to fit in a round hole. Just because you can do it, or force the fit, doesn't make it a good plan. Anyway, it makes me angry when I think about it. Because in reality, it didn't ever work. We were annoyed from the get go when Tess was just making the suggestion, which was a poor use of her character as well... (but that is another gripe) They needed to bring in new blood if they wanted to have a quote "love" interest (i.e. sex buddy) for Catherine. Of course they tried that with the she beast and we saw how well that worked out...Anyway, water under the bridge. Agree! It really sucked to bc imo Sendhill is a very good actor. And even tho I like Sendhill, they should've just let him die at S1. I don't get either why the flatlining thing didn't work on anyone but Gabe either. What was so different about Gabe? |
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Post by raniamahd on Oct 6, 2014 0:33:48 GMT -5
i think the comment to Catherine Chandler post belongs here ? i don't think they did that on purpose  because in TV shows when they make relationships or triangles they like to make those with possibilities , something the fans can like so they can drag them for how long as they want , even bring them back and use them again in the future ! and even if the show is called (Beauty and the Beast) so C&V have to be an end game -- but till this end comes no thing is for guarantee ! i don't think they would mind if they make a couple the viewers like more than vincat ? so what ? they can play along with it as much as they want and of course as the viewers want and can take , anything get them more viewers and raise the rating is welcome ! and then end the show with vincat reunion when rating doesn't matter any more ! therefore i don't think they choose Gabe after what he did in S1 and Tori whom they made her a selfish spoiled brat and didn't care to give her a good back ground or some dimension for her character to make sure most people hate gabrine and toricent and only ship vincat ?! NO ! they made those couples this way because they simply failed ! they have instruction from the net work to change the direction of the show to gain more viewers from the regular CW viewers , so they went for those triangles but they failed to make them in the right decent way ! or give them any possibilities or any attractiveness , and when they faced the logical result that people hated them and no new viewers came because of them they just cut them out in the same rushed unconvinced unjustified way ! therefore i totally agree that Patric could have been a better choice as love interest for Cat not just because it would be less painful to see them kissing -- but because it would make more sense ! because and i would talk just for myself here : the triangle was meaningless and totally insane because it was Gabe from all people ! i could never understand how could Cat be all that forgivable , forgettable and trusty when it come to Gabe while she was judging , heartless and hypocrite toward Vincent ? and what made it more insane that it started so early from the beginning ? since ep2 ? she confided and trusted him even in her most private issues ! and if she was just looking for someone far away from the beastly world Gabe also should be the last person who could cross her mind ! it just didn't make anything specially for some strong independent honest woman like Cat ? but i guess they just didn't bother to make some effort to do this right if ever it was really necessary ! |
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Post by jefferen on Oct 6, 2014 11:13:40 GMT -5
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 6, 2014 12:36:00 GMT -5
FYI: Apparently Cwtv.com took down all their beauty & the beast episodes. But they decided to leave up the canceled shows like Tomorrow People, Star-Crossed & The Carrie Diaries. It better just be temporary   . Beauty & the Beast was also taken down off of hulu.com I feel like the CW is literally trying to run this show into the ground really? why would they do that?? wtf? maybe nobody is watching? |
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, like the shallow she-beast and bucket of cringe inducing plot devices. 
he is defo dead now
because in TV shows when they make relationships or triangles they like to make those with possibilities , something the fans can like so they can drag them for how long as they want , even bring them back and use them again in the future ! and even if the show is called (Beauty and the Beast) so C&V have to be an end game -- but till this end comes no thing is for guarantee ! i don't think they would mind if they make a couple the viewers like more than vincat ? so what ? they can play along with it as much as they want and of course as the viewers want and can take , anything get them more viewers and raise the rating is welcome ! and then end the show with vincat reunion when rating doesn't matter any more !
