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Post by jefferen on Jun 27, 2014 8:17:51 GMT -5
Sorry for my bad english first. When i first saw on my tv this show title it made me very curious about. I sad to myself I know the disney story and it's a beautiful one and if this show is like the disney one it has to be beautiful and romantic too. I knew KK but never watched the hole Smalville never heard about JR but doesn't bother me. So I downloaded all the aird episodes and watched all at once and become addicted. Since than all I wanted was to see them. When I see a movie or a show I put myself in the chatacter shue and I don't start to analyse. I'm with them. I put aside my realistic minde and let my emotions and feelings to overflow. Yes they bring out of me all the basic emotions that human nature can have or feel romance sadness happiness anger love hate etc. and thats why I love the show. And yes I love this show for C for V for G for JT for Tess for H and for all the others. I don't want to be killed anybody just to let the lovestory to continue. These emotions often make me feel "alive" and because of that I feel good. I joined this forum BC of this beautiful show and I found here others like me and i feeled great couse I was not alone. And I agree with many of you that some characters are not to well written but there is not to much I can do so I'm not going to be angry about that BC it ruins everything all the emotions there were build inside me. As long as I see love and drama I go with that. So please let's enjoy this show as long as it is on our screen :worship:Amen! Couldnt have said it better myself! Pretty much exactly how I feel! I love this show too much and the chemistry and pull between Jaystin way too much to let those things or things that I cannot change bother me!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 27, 2014 9:47:21 GMT -5
Thanks to the mods for giving us this thread. I know that the whole original reason that I finally signed up to be a member of this Forum after having lurked for so long WAS because, at that particular moment, fans were so mad over what was happening in Season 2 that they were threatening to leave. And all I could think was that I couldn't lose this show. Even when I don't get what I want on my screen, I can't help but still love the characters, even with all their flaws, and LOVE this show. Enough to plow on through and accept that maybe only an occasional episode might just be exactly what I want. But give me that and it is enough and still better to my romance-loving heart than anything else on the airwaves right now. I find that I end up posting when trying to calm others down and at least get people to see the possible Big Picture. Doesn't mean that I don't want to tear into both the writers and Brad Kern at different points and times of the season. We all want someone to blame for why there is so much division amongst the fandom. And it is not the healthy kind of thought-producing dissention. Some of it is ugly. And while that can be okay for debate, when those people want to leave the forum and the fandom, I panic. We need them. We need to support each other in order to keep the show on the air, because at the end of the day, this show should NOT be lost.
That said, No, I really didn't like what they did to Cat or Vincent this year. In spirit, even though glued to my tv screen this whole year, I inwardly side with a lot of those griping about what they saw on their screens. Or at least, even though I can explain to myself the characters' actions and mistakes this season, I really needed some other scenes from the writers to fill in the gaps. And while the Gabe with Catherine arc was, to me, understandable, the Tori arc will NEVER sit well with me. Period. And the writers STILL never let me feel that Vincent actually realized that he didn't even like Tori, let alone love her. I mean, I was mad that the writers just killed Tori off. I wanted Vincent to truly see that she wasn't right for him and that he was LETTING her affect him in the way that she did--or at least explained definitely the actual physical and mental affects that Tori's power had. I saw Tori as a sweet victim the first episode she appeared that had many horrible things happening to her, especially over the last 3 years of her life. Yet from the moment she became a beast, she had a bad effect on her father and Vincent. And she became a vicious, mean-spirited thing determined to hurt Cat who had done nothing to her. She'd already taken from Cat what Cat wanted most so she didn't need to rub it in the way she did in 211. And while Vincent seemed to be breaking up with Tori early in 212, Cat was encouraging him to talk to Tori and stick it out, and I'm unsure what Vincent would have done had Tori lived. I wanted to see Vincent ADMIT that Catherine always had his heart and that he made a mistake. I wanted Vincent to actually reject Tori as a lover and see what happened after that. Would she have become like Gabe or become a friend to the group? I hate that too many tv shows think that once the third party is somehow no longer involved with one of the leads, he or she has to die. I mean, in real life, people don't cease to exist because they break up with someone. Makes it interesting to see if they move on away from the core group or find another way to co-exist as friends or at least allies. Having another Beast on the show that was actually not evil would have been an interesting arc, I think. Having Tori die the way she did just made Vincent go off and brood and never really determine what he really felt for her. Yet, by the next episode, Vincent wants to avoid Cat and then clearly wants her back. It rankled, because it felt like Alex all over again where Vincent seemed to realize Cat was what he wanted ONLY after someone else was NOT an option.
And I'm still mad with how Cat was portrayed first half of this season. Cat had her own identity last season. I can get why Cat just basically let her career go for 3 months looking for Vincent, but she was not there for her sister, didn't mourn her father's death, and was clearly not there for him or anyone else as he lay dying. Cat became totally consumed by her search for Vincent, but when she got him back, she repeatedly seemed to punish him for something he could NOT control. I would assume that Cat would understand what torture can do to someone. And clearly, things had been done to Vincent. He was clearly brainwashed/programmed, and yet Cat does everything that would get Vincent not to trust her and to lash out. I saw exactly why Vincent struck out at Catherine but HATED the implication that many fans would attribute the action to (domestic violence). And then Cat basically struck out at Vincent in a mean-spirited way in the next episode and pushed Vincent away at the end when he FINALLY does remember something about her. She says she can't handle it? I mean, really? How does she think Vincent feels in just remembering that he really did know Catherine. Because Cat's actions in the episode really didn't seem all that trust-worthy or that she had had an epic love with Vincent. And Cat still has a support system and crew working with her while Vincent is truly alone on that fire escape at the end of that episode. Cat had NO patience with Vincent. I can see why Vincent and Catherine's relationship was so fragile by the time that Tori arrived that she was able to so easily manipulate Vincent's anger. Vincent really did have a lot to be angry about. And did Cat really have to shoot Vincent? Did the writers really have to go that far? Add that to the fact that Vincent had almost killed Catherine by wrecking her car. Neither Cat nor Vincent seemed to try to understand or empathize with where the other was coming from. And while Cat didn't have to be supportive of the Vincent Killing Missions, she could have tried being involved with him and showing him compassion rather than leaving him to figure it out himself.
Ack. I get why so many people were angry. So was I, really. Yet, even if I didn't like what I saw, I admit that I was hanging onto every word and nuance from every episode and couldn't wait to see the next one, no matter how painful it got.
And I love the way BOTH KK and JR played the characters. They made them believable and made you see how actions could be interpreted as in-character or out-of-character for their people. There was always a way to look at it from multiple sides. And I DID like that aspect of it. And I really think that KK and JR made more out of what was on the page and took the characters where they were instructed to take them. And it must have been interesting to play people that you could see yourself NOT liking at times. Kudos to both, but painful to me and many others. And it just about killed the show.
And I got where people like Dan were coming from. Catherine this season has seemed to be continuously involved in Beast-only activities or in coming unraveled. Cat and Tess were formerly some of the best detectives at the precinct, yet Cat and Tess had closed the least amount of cases in the Valentine's Day episode because neither has been able to have a career. And that continued with the two only working the Sam case. Cat never had an independent life. Yet she balks at just a life with Vincent in "Ever After" even though Beast cases etc. seemed all the kind of cop cases she had this year. Sigh. Even the one undercover case Cat gets this year linked in with Vincent. And yes, while I was glad that forced them back together, it was so ugly that I just shuddered.
I want to see Cat have a career and how that works out for her. Seeing her actually try to balance her cases and her involvement with Vincent would be a nice change of pace that I hope Season 3 will bring. Unlike many others, I LIKE the squabbling that occurs between Vincent and Catherine. I like that they are strong enough people to argue regularly even though they clearly love each other a lot and try to come around to at least see what the other is about. Neither seems to doubt at this time that they want to be together always. Since I have had to see too many painful moments, I DO want to see the romance as well, since that IS supposed to be what the show is ultimately about.
And, because this is the thread where You Can, I LOVED KK in Chuck as Hannah. I think that was brave of her to take that role and once again come under risk of fire of fans that didn't like third parties in the way of Chuck and Sarah. And KK chose to be on a show that barely kept from being cancelled yet had a small core fanbase that LOVED the show. It shows even then that she appreciated a small dedicated fanbase. I also liked KK on Smallville and admit to owning about 9 of the 10 seasons on DVD (even though I am a Clark/Lois forever fan and loved seasons 8-10 the best). Still, KK could make you believe in her character and want her with the characters even though you KNEW it was not meant to be. I did watch Terra Nova at some point, but I don't remember JR. I really have no interest at this time in seeing him with anyone not KK. I feel that no other actors other than KK or JR could make me feel for this couple in the way that I do. I hope others see that as well so that the show can stay on the air.
What I love about this show is that you actually LIKE the core characters. On so many other shows, the characters just seem so <edited>ty and back and forth with so many third parties and making poor choices that you really can't like them as people. I like that there are morals and values that both Vincent and Catherine have and watching them struggle to find a balance and remain true to themselves and to each other is what is the real heart of the show. The weak, floppy, I don't know what I want characters from earlier this season seem gone. I like when Cat is bull-headed when it is for an actual reason that supports her principles. I want to see more of that. And I like that Ever After did show us that Vincent appreciates that about Catherine. About time. He certainly didn't in the beginning of Season 2.
I think having Heather back in Season 3 does mean that we get to see more Catherine-centered family stories and Catherine trying to balance everything. I also think it will be interesting to see Vincent try to re-start his own life as well. Just don't like that we only have 13 episodes.
And it worries me that with such a divided fandom, we continue to lose viewers. We need more viewers to stay on the air. And once I heard about the Heroes reboot, I knew we would lose Sendhil. And Gabe is such a powerful villain to hate. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we DO have many fans that came on board due to Sendhil. I'm not ready to lose this show. I hope others are not either, no matter how much you hated past episodes. I actually don't know anyone that was fully onboard with about 2/3 of Season 2. I do feel that SOME coming together of the fandom needs to happen in order for BATB to continue. It is just such a unique show on television. But Fantasy/Sci-Fi fans are such passionate fans about what they will take on their screen. How do we get the fans back that we lost at the same time as getting new fans? Because that is what it will take.
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Post by jefferen on Jun 27, 2014 10:00:11 GMT -5
Thanks to the mods for giving us this thread. I know that the whole original reason that I finally signed up to be a member of this Forum after having lurked for so long WAS because, at that particular moment, fans were so mad over what was happening in Season 2 that they were threatening to leave. And all I could think was that I couldn't lose this show. Even when I don't get what I want on my screen, I can't help but still love the characters, even with all their flaws, and LOVE this show. Enough to plow on through and accept that maybe only an occasional episode might just be exactly what I want. But give me that and it is enough and still better to my romance-loving heart than anything else on the airwaves right now. I find that I end up posting when trying to calm others down and at least get people to see the possible Big Picture. Doesn't mean that I don't want to tear into both the writers and Brad Kern at different points and times of the season. We all want someone to blame for why there is so much division amongst the fandom. And it is not the healthy kind of thought-producing dissention. Some of it is ugly. And while that can be okay for debate, when those people want to leave the forum and the fandom, I panic. We need them. We need to support each other in order to keep the show on the air, because at the end of the day, this show should NOT be lost. That said, No, I really didn't like what they did to Cat or Vincent this year. In spirit, even though glued to my tv screen this whole year, I inwardly side with a lot of those griping about what they saw on their screens. Or at least, even though I can explain to myself the characters' actions and mistakes this season, I really needed some other scenes from the writers to fill in the gaps. And while the Gabe with Catherine arc was, to me, understandable, the Tori arc will NEVER sit well with me. Period. And the writers STILL never let me feel that Vincent actually realized that he didn't even like Tori, let alone love her. I mean, I was mad that the writers just killed Tori off. I wanted Vincent to truly see that she wasn't right for him and that he was LETTING her affect him in the way that she did--or at least explained definitely the actual physical and mental affects that Tori's power had. I saw Tori as a sweet victim the first episode she appeared that had many horrible things happening to her, especially over the last 3 years of her life. Yet from the moment she became a beast, she had a bad effect on her father and Vincent. And she became a vicious, mean-spirited thing determined to hurt Cat who had done nothing to her. She'd already taken from Cat what Cat wanted most so she didn't need to rub it in the way she did in 211. And while Vincent seemed to be breaking up with Tori early in 212, Cat was encouraging him to talk to Tori and stick it out, and I'm unsure what Vincent would have done had Tori lived. I wanted to see Vincent ADMIT that Catherine always had his heart and that he made a mistake. I wanted Vincent to actually reject Tori as a lover and see what happened after that. Would she have become like Gabe or become a friend to the group? I hate that too many tv shows think that once the third party is somehow no longer involved with one of the leads, he or she has to die. I mean, in real life, people don't cease to exist because they break up with someone. Makes it interesting to see if they move on away from the core group or find another way to co-exist as friends or at least allies. Having another Beast on the show that was actually not evil would have been an interesting arc, I think. Having Tori die the way she did just made Vincent go off and brood and never really determine what he really felt for her. Yet, by the next episode, Vincent wants to avoid Cat and then clearly wants her back. It rankled, because it felt like Alex all over again where Vincent seemed to realize Cat was what he wanted ONLY after someone else was NOT an option. And I'm still mad with how Cat was portrayed first half of this season. Cat had her own identity last season. I can get why Cat just basically let her career go for 3 months looking for Vincent, but she was not there for her sister, didn't mourn her father's death, and was clearly not there for him or anyone else as he lay dying. Cat became totally consumed by her search for Vincent, but when she got him back, she repeatedly seemed to punish him for something he could NOT control. I would assume that Cat would understand what torture can do to someone. And clearly, things had been done to Vincent. He was clearly brainwashed/programmed, and yet Cat does everything that would get Vincent not to trust her and to lash out. I saw exactly why Vincent struck out at Catherine but HATED the implication that many fans would attribute the action to (domestic violence). And then Cat basically struck out at Vincent in a mean-spirited way in the next episode and pushed Vincent away at the end when he FINALLY does remember something about her. She says she can't handle it? I mean, really? How does she think Vincent feels in just remembering that he really did know Catherine. Because Cat's actions in the episode really didn't seem all that trust-worthy or that she had had an epic love with Vincent. And Cat still has a support system and crew working with her while Vincent is truly alone on that fire escape at the end of that episode. Cat had NO patience with Vincent. I can see why Vincent and Catherine's relationship was so fragile by the time that Tori arrived that she was able to so easily manipulate Vincent's anger. Vincent really did have a lot to be angry about. And did Cat really have to shoot Vincent? Did the writers really have to go that far? Add that to the fact that Vincent had almost killed Catherine by wrecking her car. Neither Cat nor Vincent seemed to try to understand or empathize with where the other was coming from. And while Cat didn't have to be supportive of the Vincent Killing Missions, she could have tried being involved with him and showing him compassion rather than leaving him to figure it out himself. Ack. I get why so many people were angry. So was I, really. Yet, even if I didn't like what I saw, I admit that I was hanging onto every word and nuance from every episode and couldn't wait to see the next one, no matter how painful it got. And I love the way BOTH KK and JR played the characters. They made them believable and made you see how actions could be interpreted as in-character or out-of-character for their people. There was always a way to look at it from multiple sides. And I DID like that aspect of it. And I really think that KK and JR made more out of what was on the page and took the characters where they were instructed to take them. And it must have been interesting to play people that you could see yourself NOT liking at times. Kudos to both, but painful to me and many others. And it just about killed the show. And I got where people like Dan were coming from. Catherine this season has seemed to be continuously involved in Beast-only activities or in coming unraveled. Cat and Tess were formerly some of the best detectives at the precinct, yet Cat and Tess had closed the least amount of cases in the Valentine's Day episode because neither has been able to have a career. And that continued with the two only working the Sam case. Cat never had an independent life. Yet she balks at just a life with Vincent in "Ever After" even though Beast cases etc. seemed all the kind of cop cases she had this year. Sigh. Even the one undercover case Cat gets this year linked in with Vincent. And yes, while I was glad that forced them back together, it was so ugly that I just shuddered. I want to see Cat have a career and how that works out for her. Seeing her actually try to balance her cases and her involvement with Vincent would be a nice change of pace that I hope Season 3 will bring. Unlike many others, I LIKE the squabbling that occurs between Vincent and Catherine. I like that they are strong enough people to argue regularly even though they clearly love each other a lot and try to come around to at least see what the other is about. Neither seems to doubt at this time that they want to be together always. Since I have had to see too many painful moments, I DO want to see the romance as well, since that IS supposed to be what the show is ultimately about. And, because this is the thread where You Can, I LOVED KK in Chuck as Hannah. I think that was brave of her to take that role and once again come under risk of fire of fans that didn't like third parties in the way of Chuck and Sarah. And KK chose to be on a show that barely kept from being cancelled yet had a small core fanbase that LOVED the show. It shows even then that she appreciated a small dedicated fanbase. I also liked KK on Smallville and admit to owning about 9 of the 10 seasons on DVD (even though I am a Clark/Lois forever fan and loved seasons 8-10 the best). Still, KK could make you believe in her character and want her with the characters even though you KNEW it was not meant to be. I did watch Terra Nova at some point, but I don't remember JR. I really have no interest at this time in seeing him with anyone not KK. I feel that no other actors other than KK or JR could make me feel for this couple in the way that I do. I hope others see that as well so that the show can stay on the air. What I love about this show is that you actually LIKE the core characters. On so many other shows, the characters just seem so <edited>ty and back and forth with so many third parties and making poor choices that you really can't like them as people. I like that there are morals and values that both Vincent and Catherine have and watching them struggle to find a balance and remain true to themselves and to each other is what is the real heart of the show. The weak, floppy, I don't know what I want characters from earlier this season seem gone. I like when Cat is bull-headed when it is for an actual reason that supports her principles. I want to see more of that. And I like that Ever After did show us that Vincent appreciates that about Catherine. About time. He certainly didn't in the beginning of Season 2. I think having Heather back in Season 3 does mean that we get to see more Catherine-centered family stories and Catherine trying to balance everything. I also think it will be interesting to see Vincent try to re-start his own life as well. Just don't like that we only have 13 episodes. And it worries me that with such a divided fandom, we continue to lose viewers. We need more viewers to stay on the air. And once I heard about the Heroes reboot, I knew we would lose Sendhil. And Gabe is such a powerful villain to hate. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we DO have many fans that came on board due to Sendhil. I'm not ready to lose this show. I hope others are not either, no matter how much you hated past episodes. I actually don't know anyone that was fully onboard with about 2/3 of Season 2. I do feel that SOME coming together of the fandom needs to happen in order for BATB to continue. It is just such a unique show on television. But Fantasy/Sci-Fi fans are such passionate fans about what they will take on their screen. How do we get the fans back that we lost at the same time as getting new fans? Because that is what it will take. OMG I Love this post!!!! 1000% agree w/ everything you just said! Thank You!!!!!
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Post by dan on Jun 27, 2014 10:58:13 GMT -5
The show actually has more to offer than the beast side,if only TPTB not refuse to see it and look beyond their fascination on Vincent.
If you give me reason like "Vincent is the most interesting,he's the only one who bringing the drama" ,if people only made interested to watch Beast only,then it's a BIG FAILURE on writers part.There are someone else whose name come first. if THEY made the beauty less compelling and has nothing going on other than dealing with beast,it's a FAILURE on their part. IT'S a Big mistake and they need to FIX IT!
I'm not gonna accept the "that's just the way it's suppose to be" reason. And the one that's responsible for dividing the fandom is the writers.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jun 27, 2014 11:31:15 GMT -5
Hey Dan.
I DO think the writers may have gotten the message about needing to give Cat more of her own life. You can't have a strong, independent female character if she is just swooning over her man and dealing with his problems at the cost of her own. "Ever After" really seemed to be a turning point for Cat's character. Cat wasn't willing to cease to be a cop or to keep from making protecting others her TOP priority. She didn't want suburbia without a life of her own. And Vincent even commented that he NOW recognizes that Cat has to be somewhere where she can kick butt. With Heather being made an actual series regular next year, we SHOULD get to see more Cat interacting with her family and having her own life outside of Vincent's. I miss the scenes from Season 1 where Cat, Heather, and Tess would go out together (or stay in together--like at Cat's party). We didn't even get to hear about how Cat handled her birthday this year. I certainly think it would have been during a time when she would be forced to take stock of her life and see where it has ended up (and what it has cost her). And Gabe will be gone (hallelujah and amen, as far as Cat's character development is concerned) so that Cat won't be vested in relationships that seem forced. I really think we will get the strong kick-butt Catherine in Season 3 that is taking charge of her life. Yes, I admit I want the Romance between Vincent and Cat. But that isn't her whole life, either. I do hope we see more of Cat back at the precinct. They don't HAVE to make the cases give insight to VinCat's relationship: we can just see Cat protecting others and risking her life as she did before Vincent. At the same time, with her having more of a reason to stay alive with family back in her life and Vincent, I want to see how that will affect how Cat approaches her job and the risks that she takes. I have real HOPE for Season 3.
That said, it does worry me that the people that write Cat the best will only be "consultants" next season. And Kern seems to lean towards male writers who, in my opinion, haven't done Cat right. We will just have to see, as we all DO know that the writing is the key.
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Post by Vincent Keller on Jun 27, 2014 13:45:55 GMT -5
Well, instead of controversy, I choose to see it as discussion...the very purpose of a forum. But since the other threads get off-topic, and since people need a place to keep following those rabbit trails, I made this thread. (not you per se) but some people seem to think varying viewpoints and discussion = negativity. It can be that way, but sometimes, keeping everything "calm" for the sake of calm only has everyone bottling up what they really think. The goal is to discuss things maturely, without lashing out and judging and telling other people how to post. NOT that I am the judge of maturity, mind you. Sorry for my bad english first. When i first saw on my tv this show title it made me very curious about. I sad to myself I know the disney story and it's a beautiful one and if this show is like the disney one it has to be beautiful and romantic too. I knew KK but never watched the hole Smalville never heard about JR but doesn't bother me. So I downloaded all the aird episodes and watched all at once and become addicted. Since than all I wanted was to see them. When I see a movie or a show I put myself in the chatacter shue and I don't start to analyse. I'm with them. I put aside my realistic minde and let my emotions and feelings to overflow. Yes they bring out of me all the basic emotions that human nature can have or feel romance sadness happiness anger love hate etc. and thats why I love the show. And yes I love this show for C for V for G for JT for Tess for H and for all the others. I don't want to be killed anybody just to let the lovestory to continue. These emotions often make me feel "alive" and because of that I feel good. I joined this forum BC of this beautiful show and I found here others like me and i feeled great couse I was not alone. And I agree with many of you that some characters are not to well written but there is not to much I can do so I'm not going to be angry about that BC it ruins everything all the emotions there were build inside me. As long as I see love and drama I go with that. So please let's enjoy this show as long as it is on our screen ^ This is a passionate post - it's great! The trouble we get into in the other threads is the last line: "So please let's enjoy this show as long as its on our screen." The entire post was so great, but that line hints at telling people how to feel and/or what to post about. But the thing is, someone can support the show and watch every week, be disappointed in the way things are going for a particular ep or character, and they STILL can be a solid fan. I know what you mean about the emotions and sort of being in that "happy place" and being grateful we have a show at all to watch. However, I am of the school of - they get paid to deliver this product and we are the consumers. The show doesn't always have to go my way, for sure, but I can be displeased with character-assassinating plots, people shoving or shooting or cheating, or whatnot. I don't have to just "be grateful" that the show exists. These are compelling characters, and I expect a lot out of them. However, I see your point of not getting sucked into a spiral of negativity and just enjoy the ride too. Thanks to the mods for giving us this thread. I know that the whole original reason that I finally signed up to be a member of this Forum after having lurked for so long WAS because, at that particular moment, fans were so mad over what was happening in Season 2 that they were threatening to leave. And all I could think was that I couldn't lose this show. Even when I don't get what I want on my screen, I can't help but still love the characters, even with all their flaws, and LOVE this show. Enough to plow on through and accept that maybe only an occasional episode might just be exactly what I want. But give me that and it is enough and still better to my romance-loving heart than anything else on the airwaves right now. I find that I end up posting when trying to calm others down and at least get people to see the possible Big Picture. Doesn't mean that I don't want to tear into both the writers and Brad Kern at different points and times of the season. We all want someone to blame for why there is so much division amongst the fandom. And it is not the healthy kind of thought-producing dissention. Some of it is ugly. And while that can be okay for debate, when those people want to leave the forum and the fandom, I panic. We need them. We need to support each other in order to keep the show on the air, because at the end of the day, this show should NOT be lost. That said, No, I really didn't like what they did to Cat or Vincent this year. In spirit, even though glued to my tv screen this whole year, I inwardly side with a lot of those griping about what they saw on their screens. Or at least, even though I can explain to myself the characters' actions and mistakes this season, I really needed some other scenes from the writers to fill in the gaps. And while the Gabe with Catherine arc was, to me, understandable, the Tori arc will NEVER sit well with me. Period. And the writers STILL never let me feel that Vincent actually realized that he didn't even like Tori, let alone love her. I mean, I was mad that the writers just killed Tori off. I wanted Vincent to truly see that she wasn't right for him and that he was LETTING her affect him in the way that she did--or at least explained definitely the actual physical and mental affects that Tori's power had. I saw Tori as a sweet victim the first episode she appeared that had many horrible things happening to her, especially over the last 3 years of her life. Yet from the moment she became a beast, she had a bad effect on her father and Vincent. And she became a vicious, mean-spirited thing determined to hurt Cat who had done nothing to her. She'd already taken from Cat what Cat wanted most so she didn't need to rub it in the way she did in 211. And while Vincent seemed to be breaking up with Tori early in 212, Cat was encouraging him to talk to Tori and stick it out, and I'm unsure what Vincent would have done had Tori lived. I wanted to see Vincent ADMIT that Catherine always had his heart and that he made a mistake. I wanted Vincent to actually reject Tori as a lover and see what happened after that. Would she have become like Gabe or become a friend to the group? I hate that too many tv shows think that once the third party is somehow no longer involved with one of the leads, he or she has to die. I mean, in real life, people don't cease to exist because they break up with someone. Makes it interesting to see if they move on away from the core group or find another way to co-exist as friends or at least allies. Having another Beast on the show that was actually not evil would have been an interesting arc, I think. Having Tori die the way she did just made Vincent go off and brood and never really determine what he really felt for her. Yet, by the next episode, Vincent wants to avoid Cat and then clearly wants her back. It rankled, because it felt like Alex all over again where Vincent seemed to realize Cat was what he wanted ONLY after someone else was NOT an option. And I'm still mad with how Cat was portrayed first half of this season. Cat had her own identity last season. I can get why Cat just basically let her career go for 3 months looking for Vincent, but she was not there for her sister, didn't mourn her father's death, and was clearly not there for him or anyone else as he lay dying. Cat became totally consumed by her search for Vincent, but when she got him back, she repeatedly seemed to punish him for something he could NOT control. I would assume that Cat would understand what torture can do to someone. And clearly, things had been done to Vincent. He was clearly brainwashed/programmed, and yet Cat does everything that would get Vincent not to trust her and to lash out. I saw exactly why Vincent struck out at Catherine but HATED the implication that many fans would attribute the action to (domestic violence). And then Cat basically struck out at Vincent in a mean-spirited way in the next episode and pushed Vincent away at the end when he FINALLY does remember something about her. She says she can't handle it? I mean, really? How does she think Vincent feels in just remembering that he really did know Catherine. Because Cat's actions in the episode really didn't seem all that trust-worthy or that she had had an epic love with Vincent. And Cat still has a support system and crew working with her while Vincent is truly alone on that fire escape at the end of that episode. Cat had NO patience with Vincent. I can see why Vincent and Catherine's relationship was so fragile by the time that Tori arrived that she was able to so easily manipulate Vincent's anger. Vincent really did have a lot to be angry about. And did Cat really have to shoot Vincent? Did the writers really have to go that far? Add that to the fact that Vincent had almost killed Catherine by wrecking her car. Neither Cat nor Vincent seemed to try to understand or empathize with where the other was coming from. And while Cat didn't have to be supportive of the Vincent Killing Missions, she could have tried being involved with him and showing him compassion rather than leaving him to figure it out himself. Ack. I get why so many people were angry. So was I, really. Yet, even if I didn't like what I saw, I admit that I was hanging onto every word and nuance from every episode and couldn't wait to see the next one, no matter how painful it got. And I love the way BOTH KK and JR played the characters. They made them believable and made you see how actions could be interpreted as in-character or out-of-character for their people. There was always a way to look at it from multiple sides. And I DID like that aspect of it. And I really think that KK and JR made more out of what was on the page and took the characters where they were instructed to take them. And it must have been interesting to play people that you could see yourself NOT liking at times. Kudos to both, but painful to me and many others. And it just about killed the show. And I got where people like Dan were coming from. Catherine this season has seemed to be continuously involved in Beast-only activities or in coming unraveled. Cat and Tess were formerly some of the best detectives at the precinct, yet Cat and Tess had closed the least amount of cases in the Valentine's Day episode because neither has been able to have a career. And that continued with the two only working the Sam case. Cat never had an independent life. Yet she balks at just a life with Vincent in "Ever After" even though Beast cases etc. seemed all the kind of cop cases she had this year. Sigh. Even the one undercover case Cat gets this year linked in with Vincent. And yes, while I was glad that forced them back together, it was so ugly that I just shuddered. I want to see Cat have a career and how that works out for her. Seeing her actually try to balance her cases and her involvement with Vincent would be a nice change of pace that I hope Season 3 will bring. Unlike many others, I LIKE the squabbling that occurs between Vincent and Catherine. I like that they are strong enough people to argue regularly even though they clearly love each other a lot and try to come around to at least see what the other is about. Neither seems to doubt at this time that they want to be together always. Since I have had to see too many painful moments, I DO want to see the romance as well, since that IS supposed to be what the show is ultimately about. And, because this is the thread where You Can, I LOVED KK in Chuck as Hannah. I think that was brave of her to take that role and once again come under risk of fire of fans that didn't like third parties in the way of Chuck and Sarah. And KK chose to be on a show that barely kept from being cancelled yet had a small core fanbase that LOVED the show. It shows even then that she appreciated a small dedicated fanbase. I also liked KK on Smallville and admit to owning about 9 of the 10 seasons on DVD (even though I am a Clark/Lois forever fan and loved seasons 8-10 the best). Still, KK could make you believe in her character and want her with the characters even though you KNEW it was not meant to be. I did watch Terra Nova at some point, but I don't remember JR. I really have no interest at this time in seeing him with anyone not KK. I feel that no other actors other than KK or JR could make me feel for this couple in the way that I do. I hope others see that as well so that the show can stay on the air. What I love about this show is that you actually LIKE the core characters. On so many other shows, the characters just seem so <edited>ty and back and forth with so many third parties and making poor choices that you really can't like them as people. I like that there are morals and values that both Vincent and Catherine have and watching them struggle to find a balance and remain true to themselves and to each other is what is the real heart of the show. The weak, floppy, I don't know what I want characters from earlier this season seem gone. I like when Cat is bull-headed when it is for an actual reason that supports her principles. I want to see more of that. And I like that Ever After did show us that Vincent appreciates that about Catherine. About time. He certainly didn't in the beginning of Season 2. I think having Heather back in Season 3 does mean that we get to see more Catherine-centered family stories and Catherine trying to balance everything. I also think it will be interesting to see Vincent try to re-start his own life as well. Just don't like that we only have 13 episodes. And it worries me that with such a divided fandom, we continue to lose viewers. We need more viewers to stay on the air. And once I heard about the Heroes reboot, I knew we would lose Sendhil. And Gabe is such a powerful villain to hate. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we DO have many fans that came on board due to Sendhil. I'm not ready to lose this show. I hope others are not either, no matter how much you hated past episodes. I actually don't know anyone that was fully onboard with about 2/3 of Season 2. I do feel that SOME coming together of the fandom needs to happen in order for BATB to continue. It is just such a unique show on television. But Fantasy/Sci-Fi fans are such passionate fans about what they will take on their screen. How do we get the fans back that we lost at the same time as getting new fans? Because that is what it will take. ^ This is a great post! I don't agree with every single point exactly, but I feel glad that you were able to kind of unleash your feelings in such a great way. I definitely want to foster and encourage MORE discussion. I love what you said about the characters. They are strong characters, unlike some wishy-washy ones on other shows sometimes, so that's why I expect so much from them and want so much for them. This isn't, or doesn't have to be a divided fandom. I see it as a passionate fandom!
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Post by Mrs Forbes Glass Half Full on Jun 27, 2014 13:51:10 GMT -5
Ok here goes Don't want to or mean to offend anyone and all below is my own humble opinion I respect everyones opinion and hope for the same back.
I think one of the reasons that there has been so much unrest on the board is because we are all suffering some level of disappointment with BATB this season.
I understand those who want more attention paid to Catherine . She hasn't been written well this season. I understand that some think Beast attention has taken over. The Beast of the week didn't do it for me. But I think comparing our Beast to a model and calling him King Vincent is out of place, because it has not been used in a kind manner. This is my opinion only. It serves no purpose other than controversy.
I thought we were getting more character back-story and apart from 'Hot Head', I don't feel I know anything more about the Fab 4 than I did at the end of Season 1.
They have failed to use the amazing chemistry between V & C to further the romance. It doesn't feel epic to me at the moment. I am still hopeful!!!!!
I really don't understand the seemingly rehashing of storylines....... Alex - Tori Evan - Gabe Case of the week - Beast of the week!!!!
Don't get me wrong. I have loved Season 2 for the pacing, the humour and the music. Any BATB is better than no BATB. Here's hoping that Season 3 gives us more Catherine, more VinCat, more JT, more relationship history. The theme of Season 2 was 'Who am I?', and to be honest with you, I don't really have much of a clue. Lets hope that 'Who are We?' , is more successful .
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 27, 2014 14:06:35 GMT -5
Ok here goes Don't want to or mean to offend anyone and all below is my own humble opinion I respect everyones opinion and hope for the same back. I think one of the reasons that there has been so much unrest on the board is because we are all suffering some level of disappointment with BATB this season. I understand those who want more attention paid to Catherine . She hasn't been written well this season. I understand that some think Beast attention has taken over. The Beast of the week didn't do it for me. But I think comparing our Beast to a model and calling him King Vincent is out of place, because it has not been used in a kind manner. This is my opinion only. It serves no purpose other than controversy. I thought we were getting more character back-story and apart from 'Hot Head', I don't feel I know anything more about the Fab 4 than I did at the end of Season 1. They have failed to use the amazing chemistry between V & C to further the romance. It doesn't feel epic to me at the moment. I am still hopeful!!!!! I really don't understand the seemingly rehashing of storylines....... Alex - Tori Evan - Gabe Case of the week - Beast of the week!!!! Don't get me wrong. I have loved Season 2 for the pacing, the humour and the music. Any BATB is better than no BATB. Here's hoping that Season 3 gives us more Catherine, more VinCat, more JT, more relationship history. The theme of Season 2 was 'Who am I?', and to be honest with you, I don't really have much of a clue. Lets hope that 'Who are We?' , is more successful .totally agree with your last point, especially regarding cat. i did see some development with vincent from some point onwards and i do feel he is more rounded than he was in season 1. i did not see that with cat i am afraid. i said it before, i think they were planning to get them back together in episode 22 and i thought they would have focused on the who am i for the rest of the episodes. but of course with the ratings and all they changed their plan. i am glad they did cause how can you have vincat apart for a whole season and triangles that just didnt work (tori and gabe were failures as triangles) but obviously this messed up the who am i arc for cat. again, reiterating myself but i want for them to do this season is to sit down before they start writing episode 1, have a good idea from now of what they want the end to look like, and a thorough plan of how each individual episode will lead to that ending step by step - ditch the case of the week, they are always so simplistic in BATB. they need to do the same for the character development of all key characters, not just vincat. if they do that there will be few plotholes, a great storyline and consistency in the character portrayal and development...it is so much easier to do this in a 13 episode arc than a longer 22 episode arc, i really hope they do so but i am doubtful. they also need to make sure they take advantage of that ridiculously incredible chemistry between the leads - like seriously this is the hook of the show they brighten up the screen together, use them well - this is the unique selling point of the show. here's hoping. regardless i love the show still and i dont judge it in teh same way as i judge other shows - normally i am very strict lol when it comes to movies and tv shows but yes, they could do better and i hope they do in season 3.
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Jun 27, 2014 21:15:12 GMT -5
BTW, if I wanted to see Jay in other things, what should I see first? For KK, I'd obviously say Smallville, but if that's not your thing, I'd suggest her adorable arc on Chuck or her film Partition. Just FYI. Partition is a movie?? Partition is a terrific movie!!
www.imdb.com/title/tt0213985/?ref_=nv_sr_1 That was when I fell for KK, hook, line & sinker! Having seen bits & pieces of Smallville, I was amazed at her acting ability! When I read she'd be in BatB, I made a point to check it out & the rest is history!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jun 27, 2014 21:21:05 GMT -5
Partition is a terrific movie!!
www.imdb.com/title/tt0213985/?ref_=nv_sr_1 That was when I fell for KK, hook, line & sinker! Having seen bits & pieces of Smallville, I was amazed at her acting ability! When I read she'd be in BatB, I made a point to check it out & the rest is history!
Thanks you and Vincent Keller I'm gonna see if Netflix has it to see it I will be sure to let you know what I think..although I saw the trailer and WOW!
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Jun 27, 2014 21:36:55 GMT -5
Partition is her best movie I would say. Jays biggest gigs were neighbours and go girls but I have not watched him in either so I cannot tell u whether good or not. After I "discovered" Jay in BatB, I checked out his other shows. His acting abilities were obvious even as a teenager. He was adorable in Sea Patrol & absolutely loved him as Kevin [my one true Love] in Go Girls! Even now, everytime I see glimpses of Kevin in Vincent, I swoon & yell "I love you, Kevin"!!! Having seen him in these shows made me realize what a terrific actor he truly is. IMO, BatB works because KK & JR are both unbelievably great actors, as are AB & NL!!
PS: I forgot to mention that he was also in Offspring S02 , 6 episodes. He was cute, sweet, extremely sexy & tragic! I cried & blubbered for weeks over Fraser. The only thing that saved me was discovering Kevin.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jun 27, 2014 21:45:09 GMT -5
Thanks Katie for making this thread. I have repeatedly stated that I enjoy reading all opinions, good/bad, happy/sad, pretty/ugly............I have felt that some opinions that are in the minority or that are not as "positive" as some would like, are sometimes made to feel like there is no place for their views. At some points this season, I personally felt "teamed up on" because I was posting more "negatively" than other's liked to read on the forum. I was called "judgmental". I will admit that I have been greatly disappointed in the majority of this season. I have not liked , what I feel has been the character assassination attempts on Cat and Vincent. I HATED the Tori 7 episode arc. I just can't rewatch those episodes. Maybe if I get bored during the hiatus I will do a marathon and maybe I will gather a better appreciation for the whole "Who Am I" theme. But, I feel like they could of had moments of great passion, reveals, and reunions. I think we got more heartbreak, devastation and disappointment. The Mythology has been weak.......but I am hoping and expecting that the next 2 episodes will finish strong and it will make more sense. All the actors have given great performances despite the weak writing at times. I even love Gabe at times. With that said........I am still here as a fan, who wants nothing more than this show to succeed. I want GOOD, STRONG character development and complete well-developed story lines. Don't waste time on characters that offer little to the story and push love triangles that are weak and meaningless. It is a bore to me. I will point out those things that I think the show can work on, IMO, to make it more compelling. I think I can be constructive. But many thought that I was just a "negative Nancy". I understand that many feared that any negativity would harm the perception of the show but I think the more the "debate" about issues in the show, the more conversations and passions that come out. And The BATB fandom is passionate!! I do understand some of the desire to see more of Catherine's story. Sometimes Cat was use solely for exposition, you didn't get a sense of her deepest fears or feelings. You never saw her grieve for the only father she ever knew. It just was brushed aside. We still don't know who killed Thomas or why. How did Vanessa become associated with Miurfield? So many things about Catherine's life are left unknown or very vague. I love Vincent too, but there has been a lot of focus on him this season. Let's be honest, Vincent and ALL his ASSETS have been on display this season. I think the ladies have gotten their monies worth in the Vincent fest. But, Catherine is rarely shown in a sexy manner. I mean she is gorgeous, except for a few gowns this season, she is hardly ever shown in a "sexy" outfit...........she is always in flannel for bedtime EXCEPT when she was in bed with Gabe?? It is just odd to me that in EVER AFTER, Vincent was in his robe twice and Cat was fully dressed in the a.m. in each scene. WTH?? Come on, I can see her missing the action of the Police Force but they can't show a FULLY RELAXED Catherine with her Vincent spending the morning lingering in their 'barely there' night wear? It makes no sense..........I find it odd that Kristin isn't shown, at appropriate times........in a more sensual way, especially with her man. Alex and Tori, BOTH, were in their robes with Vincent!! I find it frustrating. Why can't Catherine be shown more feminine and soft............except for a few times in gowns, she is always in leather and pants and scarves and flannel and big sweaters. Same with Tess. I am not talking about gratuitous sexy shots but just accentuate what a beautiful woman she is (and Tess). I am sure the guys in the fandom would appreciate it as well. I am not sexist, but I think there needs to be a balance as one of the fellas said earlier. Just my opinion............
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Post by ragulr25 on Jun 27, 2014 22:24:34 GMT -5
Well, instead of controversy, I choose to see it as discussion...the very purpose of a forum. But since the other threads get off-topic, and since people need a place to keep following those rabbit trails, I made this thread. (not you per se) but some people seem to think varying viewpoints and discussion = negativity. It can be that way, but sometimes, keeping everything "calm" for the sake of calm only has everyone bottling up what they really think. The goal is to discuss things maturely, without lashing out and judging and telling other people how to post. NOT that I am the judge of maturity, mind you. dont get me wrong i m much up for discussion as anybody else just saw the same intense as when i was last time ard way back in dec i think. thats what i was saying
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jun 28, 2014 0:08:04 GMT -5
Partition is her best movie I would say. Jays biggest gigs were neighbours and go girls but I have not watched him in either so I cannot tell u whether good or not. After I "discovered" Jay in BatB, I checked out his other shows. His acting abilities were obvious even as a teenager. He was adorable in Sea Patrol & absolutely loved him as Kevin [my one true Love] in Go Girls! Even now, everytime I see glimpses of Kevin in Vincent, I swoon & yell "I love you, Kevin"!!! Having seen him in these shows made me realize what a terrific actor he truly is. IMO, BatB works because KK & JR are both unbelievably great actors, as are AB & NL!!
PS: I forgot to mention that he was also in Offspring S02 , 6 episodes. He was cute, sweet, extremely sexy & tragic! I cried & blubbered for weeks over Fraser. The only thing that saved me was discovering Kevin.
i watched jay in the Eve one he did (forgot the full name lol), that was a really cute show i know seapatrol is online but never was excited by the premise of the show so did not watch it. is it a good show? besides jay being good i mean go girls i really really want to watch and i think i will really enjoy the show but it is not avaialble online and i dont think the dvds (if i buy them) are compatible with the u.k. ... but that one i really want to watch i did not watch offspring but angie redding made a one hour video with all jay scenes and i really loved him in it. i thought he was really good and really did justice to the character
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Post by kiki09 on Jun 28, 2014 2:17:15 GMT -5
^ The full title is Being Eve, anapi -season3baby :). I used to watch that show back in the day and I only realised after the fact that he was in it. It's very funny, I really like the Eve character. It's only two seasons and each ep is about 20 mins.
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