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Post by feezya on Feb 7, 2014 20:56:09 GMT -5
Catherine Ashton @designingashton Under a star lit sky they will be #FeastieFridays #BATB Vivian Vox @vivianvox 26 min @designingashton yeah rooftop scene is back Catherine Ashton @designingashton @jayfan88 I can only say that it is a very beautiful scene with V & C - U r so going to love this Ep Rafaela Linhares @_BatBlover 50 min @designingashton Hi Catherine! Can u tell me if there will be a VinCat dance in the next episode? Have a gr8 day <3 Catherine Ashton @designingashton @_BatBlover U guys want me to spill the beans!! I can't sorry xo #FeastieFridays #Batb U just have to watch the Ep.... She got me at "rooftop scene.."
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Feb 8, 2014 0:33:55 GMT -5
SO first I tried to delete this before when the original formatting deleted my reply until I could fix the problem when I got home from work, that did not work. So then I tried to edit & that did not work. So I will try to paste my reply below and hope for the best. Here is my opinion on Vincent and his memories: Sorry, this is a retyping/summary of my initial post, which seems to have gone missing. I'm having some trouble the formatting on my friend's laptop. Memory is a really fascinating subject to study. How one processes and files memories is interesting. There is also a different emotional and factual center of the brain. The brain in general is the probably the most intricate and sophisticated organ. I think when the writers stated that Vincent got back all his memories, they may have been stretching the meaning. It is very possible that Vincent got back a lot of his factual memory. Like the flashbacks that he saw in earlier episodes. Thus he could remember what happened or who people were, but he lacked the emotional connection to these memories. He could remember that Catherine was his gf & JT was his bf, but he probably lacked the intensity of those emotional bonds, perhaps making it easier to make bad choices. There is more to memory than just remembering what happened. It will be interesting to see if he begins to regain more of those emotional connections, rather then just the facts. Like the writers have said there is no specific pattern or checklist to fully indicate that you all have received all of your memories. Memory and memory recall are a fluid process. Some memories are never regained and some are altered over time even without brain manipulation or damage. We don't even know how or what Reynolds did. I have both professional and personal experience interacting with people who have memory problems d/t brain damage or neurological conditions and often they do find it challenging to sometimes remember facts from emotion and emotion from facts. For some, they may be able to recall that a person is important to them and cares about them, but not be able to recall who the person is or how they are all connected. Likewise they may be able to identify that a person is their loved one but then have no emotional connection to that person, almost as if they are describing a stranger. I think is might have been what the writers were going for. Perhaps, they used the complexity of memory and recall to their advantage but it some ways they weren't completely off track. IMO its a good trick for them to use the complexity of memory to their advantage, but a weak excuse for them to not explain some of their rationale or to explain that there is more to memory than just remembering facts. Vincent clearly remembers a lot of what was done to him, but it seems like he is only learning to fully understand how those events and facts are interconnected. A few episodes, he asked who he was man or beast. The thing about humans is that we are more than just a group of facts and events. We are a emotions and facts interrelated and interdependent upon each other. Hopefully, the writers can draw more upon those interconnections between emotions and memories moving forward.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 8, 2014 2:19:22 GMT -5
SO first I tried to delete this before when the original formatting deleted my reply until I could fix the problem when I got home from work, that did not work. So then I tried to edit & that did not work. So I will try to paste my reply below and hope for the best. Here is my opinion on Vincent and his memories: Sorry, this is a retyping/summary of my initial post, which seems to have gone missing. I'm having some trouble the formatting on my friend's laptop. Memory is a really fascinating subject to study. How one processes and files memories is interesting. There is also a different emotional and factual center of the brain. The brain in general is the probably the most intricate and sophisticated organ. I think when the writers stated that Vincent got back all his memories, they may have been stretching the meaning. It is very possible that Vincent got back a lot of his factual memory. Like the flashbacks that he saw in earlier episodes. Thus he could remember what happened or who people were, but he lacked the emotional connection to these memories. He could remember that Catherine was his gf & JT was his bf, but he probably lacked the intensity of those emotional bonds, perhaps making it easier to make bad choices. There is more to memory than just remembering what happened. It will be interesting to see if he begins to regain more of those emotional connections, rather then just the facts. Like the writers have said there is no specific pattern or checklist to fully indicate that you all have received all of your memories. Memory and memory recall are a fluid process. Some memories are never regained and some are altered over time even without brain manipulation or damage. We don't even know how or what Reynolds did. I have both professional and personal experience interacting with people who have memory problems d/t brain damage or neurological conditions and often they do find it challenging to sometimes remember facts from emotion and emotion from facts. For some, they may be able to recall that a person is important to them and cares about them, but not be able to recall who the person is or how they are all connected. Likewise they may be able to identify that a person is their loved one but then have no emotional connection to that person, almost as if they are describing a stranger. I think is might have been what the writers were going for. Perhaps, they used the complexity of memory and recall to their advantage but it some ways they weren't completely off track. IMO its a good trick for them to use the complexity of memory to their advantage, but a weak excuse for them to not explain some of their rationale or to explain that there is more to memory than just remembering facts. Vincent clearly remembers a lot of what was done to him, but it seems like he is only learning to fully understand how those events and facts are interconnected. A few episodes, he asked who he was man or beast. The thing about humans is that we are more than just a group of facts and events. We are a emotions and facts interrelated and interdependent upon each other. Hopefully, the writers can draw more upon those interconnections between emotions and memories moving forward. yes completely agree with u regarding what the writers did kern said this thing had happened to him in the past and yes i think that is what they tried to do, as u say tried to use the complexity of memory and memory loss but obviously they did not convey it to the audience in a clear way that leaves no doubts or questions
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 4:20:20 GMT -5
SO first I tried to delete this before when the original formatting deleted my reply until I could fix the problem when I got home from work, that did not work. So then I tried to edit & that did not work. So I will try to paste my reply below and hope for the best. Here is my opinion on Vincent and his memories: Sorry, this is a retyping/summary of my initial post, which seems to have gone missing. I'm having some trouble the formatting on my friend's laptop. Memory is a really fascinating subject to study. How one processes and files memories is interesting. There is also a different emotional and factual center of the brain. The brain in general is the probably the most intricate and sophisticated organ. I think when the writers stated that Vincent got back all his memories, they may have been stretching the meaning. It is very possible that Vincent got back a lot of his factual memory. Like the flashbacks that he saw in earlier episodes. Thus he could remember what happened or who people were, but he lacked the emotional connection to these memories. He could remember that Catherine was his gf & JT was his bf, but he probably lacked the intensity of those emotional bonds, perhaps making it easier to make bad choices. There is more to memory than just remembering what happened. It will be interesting to see if he begins to regain more of those emotional connections, rather then just the facts. Like the writers have said there is no specific pattern or checklist to fully indicate that you all have received all of your memories. Memory and memory recall are a fluid process. Some memories are never regained and some are altered over time even without brain manipulation or damage. We don't even know how or what Reynolds did. I have both professional and personal experience interacting with people who have memory problems d/t brain damage or neurological conditions and often they do find it challenging to sometimes remember facts from emotion and emotion from facts. For some, they may be able to recall that a person is important to them and cares about them, but not be able to recall who the person is or how they are all connected. Likewise they may be able to identify that a person is their loved one but then have no emotional connection to that person, almost as if they are describing a stranger. I think is might have been what the writers were going for. Perhaps, they used the complexity of memory and recall to their advantage but it some ways they weren't completely off track. IMO its a good trick for them to use the complexity of memory to their advantage, but a weak excuse for them to not explain some of their rationale or to explain that there is more to memory than just remembering facts. Vincent clearly remembers a lot of what was done to him, but it seems like he is only learning to fully understand how those events and facts are interconnected. A few episodes, he asked who he was man or beast. The thing about humans is that we are more than just a group of facts and events. We are a emotions and facts interrelated and interdependent upon each other. Hopefully, the writers can draw more upon those interconnections between emotions and memories moving forward. Thank you for your explanation. It was really interesting. But I think that, in a way, it confirms what SpydancerLovesVincat was saying. The writes are using it as a cope out. As they're doing with a lot of things, the memory loss is just a card they pull when is convenient to them. In the context of what you're saying, we can assume that Vincent really never loved Catherine. He remembered her and knew what she meant to him, but the actual emotion wasn't there. They played the emotion card when it suited them, though. Vincent loved Cat when he killed Zach, but didn't love her when he crashed her car. He loved her when he agred to meet her father, but didn't love her when decided to kill him. The problem isn't what the memory loss did with his emotions, but how this effect was played. It wasn't clear to the audience. We were constantly left with more question than answers. Until today, this question still wasn't answered. We still don't know if his memories are back. And, if those memories are back, we still don't know if the emotions are back. It's convenient and an easy way out. After 212, the cards are pretty much on the table, but the writers still can turn the story around at any minute with the excuse that Vincent doesn't have an emotional connection to anyone. In that sense, it's a poor plot device.
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Feb 9, 2014 21:47:27 GMT -5
Thank you for your explanation. It was really interesting. But I think that, in a way, it confirms what SpydancerLovesVincat was saying. The writes are using it as a cope out. As they're doing with a lot of things, the memory loss is just a card they pull when is convenient to them. In the context of what you're saying, we can assume that Vincent really never loved Catherine. He remembered her and knew what she meant to him, but the actual emotion wasn't there. They played the emotion card when it suited them, though. Vincent loved Cat when he killed Zach, but didn't love her when he crashed her car. He loved her when he agred to meet her father, but didn't love her when decided to kill him. The problem isn't what the memory loss did with his emotions, but how this effect was played. It wasn't clear to the audience. We were constantly left with more question than answers. Until today, this question still wasn't answered. We still don't know if his memories are back. And, if those memories are back, we still don't know if the emotions are back. It's convenient and an easy way out. After 212, the cards are pretty much on the table, but the writers still can turn the story around at any minute with the excuse that Vincent doesn't have an emotional connection to anyone. In that sense, it's a poor plot device. Absolutely agree that the writers are using it to their advantage. It is sorta a cop out because I think they dont explain their true intentions in their interactions with us. They could easily just come out and say memory recovery is complicated and we're using it our advantage... And that is sorta the problem w/ S2, the writers are making us ask too many questions, and not in a good way. There at risk for losing their audience, esp if they are not as invested as some of us in the fandom are. In terms of the pink portion of your quote, in many ways you are right. But I think Vincent could love her and still make some of the decisions he did. His decisions were self preserving ones at the cost of his relationships, but in his mind it made more sense to protect himself rather than trust other people. Unfortunately, I dont think its as black and white in life. Love and emotional connections are also very complex. You can love someone and still chose to do something that may hurt them for various reasons. In Vincent's case, he chose to pursue his revenge against her father rather than let him go perhaps because he thought it would help heal him. In his perspective, he might have thought he needed to kill him in order to survive himself. In some ways we saw this with Cat shooting him. She still loved him, but felt she needed to shoot him in order to save him and hopefully save their relationship. Emotional connections and love do not always = making sound decisions, which is just as frustrating for the audience as I imagine Cat & JT are. I think what I was trying to say in my earlier post was that with memory loss, Vincent lacked the intensity of what his love was and what thus not fully understanding the repercussions would be if he chose to disregard that love. Also, I think being hurt through other people's betrayal over the years made him question whether he could trust other people over trusting himself. Its not a matter of how many memories are back or not, the process of getting constantly hit with false and true memories I think has the cumulative effect of making Vincent more self preserving and to put it bluntly at times selfish. It may not negated that he still loved Cat when he made some of these decisions, I think it just meant that in some ways he deprioritized that feeling. Perhaps it was a threat to him. I dont know what its like to be betrayed by some many people, esp those with close connections to me. But I have been betrayed and know that it does weird things to your psyche and your actions. Trust is hard to recover, even when you love some one. I do wish the writer let us more into their thought process, but that will probably never happen, so we're left dealing with our frustration. If the writers had better executed the complexity of memories and love I think we would be talking differently. I think their poor execution of some of there concepts created some of there poor plot devices this season. It seems they tried to use very sophisticated theories and elements, but did know exactly how to get out of some of the rough spots. And rather than riding them out a little, they seemed to panic and resort to the easiest and often weakest solution. The love triangles were a perfect example of this. Using other people to help you figure out who you are in the way V/T have this season is very weak. Just like Alex coming back last year. Why introduce random characters that we're supposed to believe pose a threat?? Relationships can be complicated enough to write about and explore, without just introducing these unnecessary characters. If you really want to do something as sophisticated as memory loss, you have to be better at riding out the repercussions of it, rather than just resort to the soap opera elements they pursued this season. If you cant do something like memory loss well, then the writers should have just avoided it because it is so easy to backfire on you and become a soap opera to much of my and the audiences disappointment. If we wanted a soap opera, we would have chosen another show to watch. I think the writers need to trust themselves more before pushing the panic button. Panic button pushing plot devices do not help strengthen the show.
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Post by Mycupoftea on Feb 10, 2014 2:10:53 GMT -5
Sam is a bad guy, he was never really a prisoner. What did he use the serum(?) for ? The bottle he planted at Gabe's was nearly empty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 6:14:53 GMT -5
Vincent and Catherine have always talked about camping together; this season and last season. Perhaps they will finally get to go on their camping trip and "lay down' on a blanket under the stars.....or perhaps it will be the rooftop...it works for me either way. As far as the serum; that's the number 1 question now. Who drank it and why? I need to give this a little more thought.
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Post by bookworm on Feb 10, 2014 8:56:43 GMT -5
Vincent and Catherine have always talked about camping together; this season and last season. Perhaps they will finally get to go on their camping trip and "lay down' on a blanket under the stars.....or perhaps it will be the rooftop...it works for me either way.As far as the serum; that's the number 1 question now. Who drank it and why? I need to give this a little more thought. :thudpile: that'd be fantastic! camping is so cool especially when it's cold outside ... you need to keep warm :thudpile:
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Post by Mrs Forbes Glass Half Full on Feb 10, 2014 11:16:22 GMT -5
I'm trying to get my time lines right.
In EP 15 Vincat do the horizontal mambo, or so we have been led to believe. My questions are these.
In EP 14 does Cat break it off with Gabe or does she do the deed with Vincent whilst still in a relationship with Gabe?
Trying to get my head around everything because things not happening how I expected them too.
Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 10, 2014 11:32:33 GMT -5
I'm trying to get my time lines right. In EP 15 Vincat do the horizontal mambo, or so we have been led to believe. My questions are these. In EP 14 does Cat break it off with Gabe or does she do the deed with Vincent whilst still in a relationship with Gabe? Trying to get my head around everything because things not happening how I expected them too. Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this 1,my thoughts were cat breaks up with gabe by the beginning of 14 2.unexpected sex with vincent in 15 3. officially an item and passionate kiss in 16 now 2 and 3 are happening for sure number 1 was my specylation before i watched 13 after 13 i doubt she will break up early in 14... but i am hoping it will happen towards the end of 14..though it could even happen in 15 early on i sure hope she does not do the deed while still with gabe!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 11:32:56 GMT -5
I used to be a VinCat shipper. Up until the last scene of S01e11, I completely understood both sides of the story. That last scene ruined Vincent's character for me. I still could understand him, but I never was able to relate to him completely anymore.
S2 came and Vincent simply doesn't exist anymore so there's nothing to ship. But what I think it's weird is that the writers make sure to sink both Team Vincent's and Team Catherine's ships. Catherine became a woman that you can't relate, let alone understand. I don't feel for these characters anymore. In a show that blatantly gave up the fairy tale magic to make it more realistic, there's no real people on it.
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ckay
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Post by ckay on Feb 10, 2014 11:37:38 GMT -5
I'm trying to get my time lines right. In EP 15 Vincat do the horizontal mambo, or so we have been led to believe. My questions are these. In EP 14 does Cat break it off with Gabe or does she do the deed with Vincent whilst still in a relationship with Gabe? Trying to get my head around everything because things not happening how I expected them too. Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this 1,my thoughts were cat breaks up with gabe by the beginning of 14 2.unexpected sex with vincent in 15 3. officially an item and passionate kiss in 16 now 2 and 3 are happening for sure number 1 was my specylation before i watched 13 after 13 i doubt she will break up early in 14... but i am hoping it will happen towards the end of 14..though it could even happen in 15 early on i sure hope she does not do the deed while still with gabe! Anapi how much you are sure that 2 & 3 will happen in episode 15?? Everybody is saying that they will make the deed in 15!!! was there any tweet or it's only speculations?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 10, 2014 11:39:45 GMT -5
1,my thoughts were cat breaks up with gabe by the beginning of 14 2.unexpected sex with vincent in 15 3. officially an item and passionate kiss in 16 now 2 and 3 are happening for sure number 1 was my specylation before i watched 13 after 13 i doubt she will break up early in 14... but i am hoping it will happen towards the end of 14..though it could even happen in 15 early on i sure hope she does not do the deed while still with gabe! Anapi how much you are sure that 2 & 3 will happen in episode 15?? Everybody is saying that they will make the deed in 15!!! was there any tweet or it's only speculations? no the kiss is in 16, the deed in 15 i really dont remember where i read it ... need to look, so many spoilers that u lose the plot but pretty sure it is happening
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ckay
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Post by ckay on Feb 10, 2014 11:44:25 GMT -5
Anapi how much you are sure that 2 & 3 will happen in episode 15?? Everybody is saying that they will make the deed in 15!!! was there any tweet or it's only speculations? no the kiss is in 16, the deed in 15 i really dont remember where i read it ... need to look, so many spoilers that u lose the plot but pretty sure it is happening cross my fingers
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 10, 2014 12:01:06 GMT -5
In EP 15 Vincat do the horizontal mambo, or so we have been led to believe. In EP 14 does Cat break it off with Gabe or does she do the deed with Vincent whilst still in a relationship with Gabe? IMO, the 2 affairs won't overlap. That is my gut feeling, for several reasons. I really don't think the Catherine/Gabe relationship will amount to much. She is trying way TOO hard. One day she'll wake up & say " My God, what am I doing? how could I sink this low?" That will be her bottoming out. Then she will start clawing her way out of the Abyss. When she gets near to the top, Vincent will be reaching down to help pull her out!
I will only believe that Gabe has changed when he miraculously grows wings & sprouts a halo! Until then I believe he has ulterior motives for charming [read fooling] Catherine! IMO, he needs Catherine for something & it's to do with the Mythology. It's only a matter of time till his true nature is revealed!
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