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Post by batb4evr1 on Aug 31, 2015 8:09:41 GMT -5
Actually that was Anapi that found the article saveeachotherbatb.com/post/119376 mentioning KK being given a producing credit: It’s a good thing for Kreuk personally, too, as it gives her more time to pursue her other interests. Kreuk, who will be given a producer credit in the fourth season, hopes to shift gears and go into producing eventually. So far, she says she has been working on churning out ideas for TV shows and pitching them.Another article referenced her producing "an episode" but I have no idea how reliable these sites are. IMDB is listing KK as a producer for 402, although that sites info isn't always reliable. Even if it turns out to be true that she was given a producer or ex. prod.credit, it could just be more of a salary or contractual perk but not one with any actual clout. She was given an Ex. prod. credit for Space Milkshake but all four cast members were and I think that credit was given in lieu of them getting much in terms of actual money. My gracious pippin, thank you for correcting the direction of my credit! To my dear anapi -season3baby :), you are quite on top of things so consistently! Both of you lovely Beasties are a great asset to our DEN!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 1, 2015 13:30:48 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I find this VERY comforting that KK felt the need to pursue the producer credit. For some, it can simply be a means of getting more money. But KK has shown herself to NOT be that kind of person in the roles she has chosen, such as doing "Love Letters" during her previous hiatus. So this wasn't a move for money. So the REASON that you ask for something that will give you ultimately more WORK to do is that you CARE and MOST IMPORTANTLY, you WANT more input into what your character does and says onscreen.
Being GIVEN the producer credit means that KK was obviously unhappy enough behind the scenes in Season 3, in my opinion, with how her role was portrayed for her to WANT to have more of a say. And you can supposedly get that with a producer credit. She definitely has more of a STAKE in her own role and contribution to BATB in Season 4 with this. And I feel she knows her character WAY better than the Season 3 writers, so that can ONLY benefit the show in Season 4. Hallelujah.
I have loads of comments on this episode, but my schedule is HORRIBLE right now. As soon as I have a free moment, I plan to add my thoughts and episode commentary.
VERY briefly, this was a powerful episode. But it had SO MUCH MORE potential, had there been more than 13 episodes this season. There was just NOT enough time to appreciate the beautiful symmetry to how WELL VinCat and Reynolds actually worked together. And how much Vincent HAD to suppress. He OBVIOUSLY remembered the torturous months spent at the hands of this man. And probably felt for a fellow human/beast having to go through it. And dredging up the whole thing for him again. And what it was like for CATHERINE to see it.
I would have SO been moved to see VinCat have more of a chance to discuss the effects of this for them, especially in light of their actions last season. Would have given them a chance to discuss certain things from Season 2 that never got discussed before and decisions made then, etc. And how it affects decisions now. Cat is CLEARLY upset by the implications for Vincent.
But you get to see how far BOB has come and just how dedicated he is to doing WHATEVER he can to help his daughter. Daddy and daughter working together would CLEARLY have been a force to be reckoned with. Made for some potentially POWERFUL television, YET it is OVER ALL TOO SOON. And no one given enough time to react, due to the lack of episode screentime that we have left. The Ellingsworths are really an afterthought.
That said, though, the Ellingsworths are at the root of everything. Actually FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS is at the heart of everything. Cat's father wants REDEMPTION and approval from his daughter. Everything he does is for HER. It CANNOT help him in any way. His sentence would have ONLY been added to, had he lived to go back to prison. YET you are contrasted with how Helen so trusted Liam, someone who had only been IN HER LIFE for a couple of years. YET she has allowed him in a position of TRUST and LEADERSHIP for the whole family clan. So JUST HOW MUCH has HER family life been lacking? Everything is about reputation and money and the like, leaving Helen so almost completely and universally ISOLATED, allowing Liam to take complete advantage of her and the family and exploit EVERYTHING that led to his abandonment.
I wanted more time to look at these FAMILY differences. And Vincent, in creating a life with Cat, has so totally decided to trust Reynolds and promote the relationship between Cat and her father. HE TRUSTS Reynolds to do WHATEVER he has to do to protect Catherine. He sees them UNITED in this way, in their desire to protect Cat. So he will TRUST this man that hurt him so, even when confronted with how easily Reynolds can attempt to BREAK a man down.
SO LOVED what it also said about Vincent and how much he is willing to do to forgive and forget for the sake of the woman that he loves and to try and save her. And Cat FINALLY has that FAMILY that fully knows everything about her life. A parent interacting openly with her and planning with her to try to save lives. Only to have it ripped from her.
So this was a good episode. It could have been GREAT, had there been more TIME left in the season to delve into the implications of everything coming at you on the screen. But everytime you are fixing to feel something, the scene gets prematurely edited, and they go to commercials. I had a LOT of problems with the editing department this season.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 15:22:57 GMT -5
It's not clear the producer credit is anything more than money. Whether or not KK seeks to exercise more creative control of the show is completely unknown.....unless someone has some inside info we don't know about. I suspect this situation is just as pippin alluded to and the producer credit is just a result of a contractual perk regards the episode counts being lowered. But who really knows. I think KK should still concentrate on front-of-the-camera work. The actors have excellent gigs actually. When things are going good they get much of the credit....when things are going bad they don't get much of the blame. And in either case they make excellent coin.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 1, 2015 15:37:20 GMT -5
Dave,
I both agree and disagree with your post, believe it or not! For many, I think the additional producer cred is just for the money. However, KK has previously shown that she has a strong work ethic. For at least one other show that I used to watch, the leads becoming producers was discussed a lot early on, as the actors admitted that each could CHOOSE how much or how little the producer credit actually meant to their roles. In their situation, the male actor in particular used the producer cred to suggest and promote certain storylines, which the show went with. He actually attended the producer meetings and things that his new role gave him access to. He also was able to put his foot down about certain character arcs. So the producer credit WAS used, as to that show, to portray the role more in liking with what the actor wanted. So I have great HOPES for the potential this now gives KK, particularly if I am right in my own personal theories about her happiness or lack thereof with the way Cat was portrayed on screen this season. At the very least, there is POTENTIAL there for her to have more say in what goes on onscreen. I'm interested to hear what will come of this.
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Post by pippin on Sept 1, 2015 15:57:10 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I find this VERY comforting that KK felt the need to pursue the producer credit. For some, it can simply be a means of getting more money. But KK has shown herself to NOT be that kind of person in the roles she has chosen, such as doing "Love Letters" during her previous hiatus. So this wasn't a move for money. So the REASON that you ask for something that will give you ultimately more WORK to do is that you CARE and MOST IMPORTANTLY, you WANT more input into what your character does and says onscreen. Being GIVEN the producer credit means that KK was obviously unhappy enough behind the scenes in Season 3, in my opinion, with how her role was portrayed for her to WANT to have more of a say. And you can supposedly get that with a producer credit. She definitely has more of a STAKE in her own role and contribution to BATB in Season 4 with this. And I feel she knows her character WAY better than the Season 3 writers, so that can ONLY benefit the show in Season 4. Hallelujah. I hope it is true that she has a producing credit with some clout, but remember, we still don't know for sure if the producing credit thing is even true. And if it is, it could have been something that was written into her initial contract not anything that she sought out recently. According to KK she turned down the part 3 times and signed on mainly because of jen and sherri and seeing the show as an opportunity to learn more about the process so she might have gotten the credit bump included when she signed on. But if you listen to Austin's latest interview, it doesn't sound like the actors need a producing credit to be heard. It sounds like he pitched a certain take on how JT would react to his serum situation that the writers went with.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Sept 1, 2015 16:03:22 GMT -5
I LOVE the way KK played finding her father's body. She was absolutely devastated, and called him "dad," even though he couldn't hear her. Bob Reynolds had finally tried to earn the Father cred in the right way. He had stood by his daughter and her choices. He risked himself and ultimately sacrificed himself for her and her friends and family. Bob was certainly a better person because of his daughter, and he truly sought redemption in the end. Which meant that his death WAS a loss to Cat.
And Vincent gave Cat her moment with her dead father. He stays back and gives her the moment for grief. And despite all that Bob Reynolds did to Vincent (and lets face it, it was CLEALY a lot--the earlier segment shows JUST how disturbing it must be for Vincent to NOW remember the torture and brainwashing that he underwent. And THEN to have Bob once again go after him even while behind bars, as Bob paid the guy to put Windsor's heart in Vincent's fridge.). And Bob's actions WILL probably continue to have lasting effect for Vincent, as things could so EASILY point back in Vincent's direction after all the hoopla Bob and Gabe stirred up about Vincent last season.
But Vincent recognizes what Bob has been willing to risk for Catherine. And THAT is something that Vincent can understand. So he breaks Bob out of prison. And Bob TRUSTS him to break him out, so goes along with him AND the plan, even if he has certain misgivings about it. And Bob has ALREADY lost FAMILY to Liam, since Rebecca was his ancestor.
I loved that VinCat say a toast and have a moment to Bob's memory at the end of the episode. All while Liam broodily watches on.
And that makes you wonder, how much abandonment can one man take? All his life, Liam was never "good enough" for anyone, including his fiance. What I find interesting is that Rebecca fled continents to get away from Liam, and he followed. YET, Liam never seemingly left NY after Rebecca's murder. As if he couldn't EVER get away from her loss. And for Liam to find out that CATHERINE was related to Rebecca in this episode, only to seemingly have them fused into one as a result of the attempted brainwashing.
The way Liam was looking at VinCat. Always on the outside looking in. I give the actor credit with making Liam into a rather powerful presence. The BROODING look--SO reminicient of VINCENT'S look at Cat kissing You-Know-Who in 213. The pain of loss, the wish to be the person INSIDE with one's beloved and not outside, isolated and alone. Tragic. As Liam's whole life has been. YET he was confronted with teh same type of choices as Vincent, and Vincent was able to COME BACK from the worst version of himself, that like Liam, was created by the actions of others.
The difference between Liam and Gabe was that Liam, quite frankly, had his sanity (arguably--would have LOVED to have seen this more explored). And longevity. Made for a POWERFUL foe.
And I like that Liam has always sort of looked to Vincent as an almost long-lost brother. He really DOES seem to want to make Vincent like him, so that he can just prove to himself that there never WAS an option at a better life or redemption. Yet Vincent's ability to stick by his love and put her safety and well-being first just shows LIam all he cannot be (and that others were right to cast him aside). SO MUCH POTENTIAL here. Wanted more. With so little left of the season.
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Post by pippin on Sept 1, 2015 18:33:59 GMT -5
Right. Contrast the ending scene of 312 vs 118 "Heart of Darkness". During the subway scene conversation after Evan died, the line that stuck with me was - Cat: "How do you always find me?" V: "I never stop looking." But that entire scene was so emotionally rich. Not just the lines, but the looks, the touching, the interactions and everything about the subway scene was spot on. Much of it had to do with the way KK portrayed Cat in that scene, her acting was superb. The inner conflict that Cat should be feeling over the loss of her bio dad, given that he was a baddie and the people he hurt, yet he redeemed himself in the end. Moreover, Cat was even more responsible for his death compared to the death of Evan. And if she took the gem with her back to the church, while Reynolds was left alone with Liam, that act in itself directly contributed to his death. (Which is what I assumed happened, since Liam could beast out.) However, none of that emotion was displayed during the ending scene. Vincent should have also been emotionally torn for his hatred of the man who brainwashed him into becoming an assassin vs his need to love and comfort Cat for her loss. None of that emotion was shown either. I have to double check, but I think there was originally a scene in this episode where JT gives Heather the gem, or Heather is nervously holding the gem so maybe the gem was still supposed to be with them when they were drugging Liam. I thought KK's emotions were pretty spot on in the end scene of this episode too. I thought she looked beautiful and played Cat as being more quietly sad about Bob's death, the lost possibilities, and the circumstances in a way that was appropriate. Cat knew Evan but she didn't really know Bob. And I think Cat knew that Evan probably wouldn't have been in the situation he was in if she had told him the truth (ok and if Vincent had listened to her) so I think it was right that Cat would be more upset after Evan's death. I thought the writers, director, actors would have had Vincent hold Cat's hand at the bar or something. It looked like she was sort of reaching for him or had her hand there for the taking but I'm not sure his fingers ever left his wine glass.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Sept 1, 2015 21:27:07 GMT -5
Right. Contrast the ending scene of 312 vs 118 "Heart of Darkness". During the subway scene conversation after Evan died, the line that stuck with me was - Cat: "How do you always find me?" V: "I never stop looking." But that entire scene was so emotionally rich. Not just the lines, but the looks, the touching, the interactions and everything about the subway scene was spot on. Much of it had to do with the way KK portrayed Cat in that scene, her acting was superb. The inner conflict that Cat should be feeling over the loss of her bio dad, given that he was a baddie and the people he hurt, yet he redeemed himself in the end. Moreover, Cat was even more responsible for his death compared to the death of Evan. And if she took the gem with her back to the church, while Reynolds was left alone with Liam, that act in itself directly contributed to his death. (Which is what I assumed happened, since Liam could beast out.) However, none of that emotion was displayed during the ending scene. Vincent should have also been emotionally torn for his hatred of the man who brainwashed him into becoming an assassin vs his need to love and comfort Cat for her loss. None of that emotion was shown either. I have to double check, but I think there was originally a scene in this episode where JT gives Heather the gem, or Heather is nervously holding the gem so maybe the gem was still supposed to be with them when they were drugging Liam. I thought KK's emotions were pretty spot on in the end scene of this episode too. I thought she looked beautiful and played Cat as being more quietly sad about Bob's death, the lost possibilities, and the circumstances in a way that was appropriate. Cat knew Evan but she didn't really know Bob. And I think Cat knew that Evan probably wouldn't have been in the situation he was in if she had told him the truth (ok and if Vincent had listened to her) so I think it was right that Cat would be more upset after Evan's death. I thought the writers, director, actors would have had Vincent hold Cat's hand at the bar or something. It looked like she was sort of reaching for him or had her hand there for the taking but I'm not sure his fingers ever left his wine glass. This is another good example of the disconnect that the show has done to Vincent and Catherine. Good point pippin. Look at these two. Where is the consoling? Just words and then a "toast"?? It was just so devoid of emotion in many ways. I know Bob was not a good father but in the previous scene Cat is sobbing when she sees Bob dead! Plus, Liam is watching them..............he should have witnessed all the love and caring between VinCat and realized "again" how much he was rejected by Rebecca. There should have been a classic "destined love" moment and all I wanted to do was take those 2 wine glasses and drink them myself! I still love the Liam character.......such a good baddie!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 1, 2015 23:00:28 GMT -5
This was a very strong episode, but it's just all the little things that could have made it better. I think many of us expected Vincent to grab Catherine's hand. Her hand was right there, the natural thing would have been for him to grab it, just like Suzie's sig above. Instead he takes a swig of wine. LOL. Again I point to the subway scene after Evan's death, the first thing he does is comfort her and their hands intertwine.
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Post by pippin on Sept 1, 2015 23:17:45 GMT -5
And if she took the gem with her back to the church, while Reynolds was left alone with Liam, that act in itself directly contributed to his death. (Which is what I assumed happened, since Liam could beast out.) However, none of that emotion was displayed during the ending scene. I have to double check, but I think there was originally a scene in this episode where JT gives Heather the gem, or Heather is nervously holding the gem so maybe the gem was still supposed to be with them when they were drugging Liam. OK I checked and at least one version of the script had this in it: "OFF Heather, reluctantly accepting the gem, as she and JT exchange a look." So I'm going with my original theory that the gem was still there but Liam's hatred for Rebecca was so strong that that combined with Juliana's super serum was enough to overcome the effects of the gem and would explain why . . .
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 2, 2015 2:40:44 GMT -5
I have to double check, but I think there was originally a scene in this episode where JT gives Heather the gem, or Heather is nervously holding the gem so maybe the gem was still supposed to be with them when they were drugging Liam. OK I checked and at least one version of the script had this in it: "OFF Heather, reluctantly accepting the gem, as she and JT exchange a look." So I'm going with my original theory that the gem was still there but Liam's hatred for Rebecca was so strong that that combined with Juliana's super serum was enough to overcome the effects of the gem and would explain why . . . Works for me. I'd hate to think that Cat would have been so stupid or over confident to have taken the gem with her. BTW pippin, you seem to have some secret source or access to scripts. That's really cool and I love that you share these tidbits after the fact. Also, I do appreciate that you keep them to yourself or locked within the super sensitive spoiler vault prior to an episode airing. Part of the reason I enjoyed S2 so much was that I was completely spoiler free and had no preset expectations. In S3's case, like this particular episode, my expectations were set prior to viewing the episode. Which in retrospect, I wish wasn't the case. But I have nobody to blame but me.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Sept 2, 2015 14:24:22 GMT -5
and Suzieq ❤️ Beastie, pippin and BeastieBoy, my team, you really make me wish I lived in Toronto so that I could have already seen the season finale! But about your comments on 312, which I've seen and loved: Suzieq ❤️ Beastie,you sound dead on point with this observation, "It was just so devoid of emotion in many ways. I know Bob was not a good father but in the previous scene Cat is sobbing when she sees Bob dead! Plus, Liam is watching them..............he should have witnessed all the love and caring between VinCat and realized "again" how much he was rejected by Rebecca. There should have been a classic "destined love" moment and all I wanted to do was take those 2 wine glasses and drink them myself! BeastieBoy, cool point, "This was a very strong episode, but it's just all the little things that could have made it better. I think many of us expected Vincent to grab Catherine's hand. Her hand was right there, the natural thing would have been for him to grab it, just like Suzie's sig above. Instead he takes a swig of wine. LOL. Again I point to the subway scene after Evan's death, the first thing he does is comfort her and their hands intertwine." pippin, , "OK I checked and at least one version of the script had this in it: "OFF Heather, reluctantly accepting the gem, as she and JT exchange a look." So I'm going with my original theory that the gem was still there but Liam's hatred for Rebecca was so strong that that combined with Juliana's super serum was enough to overcome the effects of the gem and would explain why..." BeastieBoy, , "Works for me. I'd hate to think that Cat would have been so stupid or over confident to have taken the gem with her. BTW pippin, you seem to have some secret source or access to scripts. That's really cool and I love that you share these tidbits after the fact. " Love you awfully much, Girl, you rock so much!!! I cannot wait to see Episode 313, I need to secure some clients in Toronto so I fly there to catch the rewatch on Showcase! You know I"m gonna need to gush about that episode when CW finally airs it! I am gonna need my Beasties and Beasts to talk to as soon as it ends!
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