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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Jan 11, 2017 6:24:00 GMT -5
I couldn't wait for the UK version of the Final Season DVD so, as I have a multi-region Blu-Ray player, I got the USA & Canada version. I enjoyed the special features that were on the DVD (lapping up all new BATB material like a dog) but I was disappointed when it was all over at the shortness of everything.
There are only 2 deleled scenes (yes....that's right....only TWO), both on Episode 13 - the scene with Vincent and the nurse is the best one as it kind of gives us an insight into how Vincent is using his time and how he's getting on with the language. Pretty good, after only six months. It SHOULD have been left in as the Paris scenes at the end of the show only focused on Cat's career and left us no idea of what Vincent was doing. The first deleted scene is a telephone conversation between Tess and Cat, not very interesting and you can see why it was cut and the information relayed in a conversation between Cat and Vincent outside the restaurant.
The gag reel was very funny and shows Jay's wicked sense of humour (naughty boy) but why oh why was it so short? Austin mentioned the scene when Vincent runs in after escaping from the underwater prison cell and slaps the heart on the table and said that they could not stop laughing and had to redo the scene over and over again. So why was this not included like the scene in the church between Vincent Tess and JT from Season 3?
I did love the homage to the beasties (nice job BeastieBoy) as I wasn't expecting this amount of recognition.
I hope they release a complete Blu-Ray and/or DVD Box set in time and that, with repeated screenings, our show gains new fans and a cult status. Maybe then we will get some new material.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Nov 16, 2016 18:17:27 GMT -5
Yes, there are a lot of examples of characters NOT saying how they really felt in Season 2, and this lead to a lot of mis-conceptions. I agree with a lot of what you say alwayscrazedbabtfan, one thing I will always believe is that Vincent and Cat never stopped being in love with each other and that is why the anger, betrayal and heart-break kept them apart for all those episodes. They had to heal before they could re-connect. I agree with you that it began during the Precinct siege, when Vincent realised Cat had turned the lights off to protect him from being exposed and Cat realised Vincent hadn't left with the gem but came forward to save her, Tess and the other hostages. It's the first time Gabe (whose not stupid) realises he has something to worry about and starts to get all jealous and possessive over Cat. It annoys him that Vincent went in to save her while he stood on the sidelines, as usual.
A couple of points brought up in this discussion - Tori was NOT the only beast Vincent met that he wanted to protect and not kill. He tried to help Jacob Sutter, the first beast made by Sam Landon and who was eventually killed by Cat and he did save Xavier (the second Sam Landon beast who had the explosives strapped to him). He also tried to reason with Zach, his old army buddy, before he realised Zach was too far gone and was going to try to kill Cat, so he had no choice but to take him out. In fact, the only beasts Vincent has tried to Kill were the ones Reynolds set him onto and, as we know, Vincent had been brainwashed and indoctrinated to follow orders. Oh and supercharged Liam, of course.
One other thing - Although I am no lover of Tori, on her death bed she did at least TRY to atone for coming between Cat and Vincent by telling Vincent he belonged with Cat. Gabe would NEVER EVER have done the same, so I find it hard to really hate her although I do hate the effect she had on the plot. Gabe was definately the more selfish and manipulative. Tori was just lonely and sad. She lost her mum and dad and due to her dad being so over-protective, she had no friends and no life so she clung to Vincent as the only person who had anything in common with her. It must have been heart-braking to know that even though he was with her, he really wanted to be with Cat, so you really have to feel a little sorry for her, especially taking into consideration how she died.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Oct 29, 2016 21:03:08 GMT -5
One thing I really liked about JT&T is that everytime they broke up it was clear why they broke and where they are in the situation. They never cheated on each other. It was always something else that broke them rather than their lack of trust. In that matter I am angry that VinCat always separated because V broke Cat heart or cheated on her. Tess didn't sleep with other guy when she broke up with JT but still she was a strong woman. Don't know why Vincent and Cat had to sleep with other people when they broke up. Technically, Vincent NEVER cheated on Cat. They broke up in Season 2 because he couldn't control his beast side and his anger towards Bob Reynolds and took the law into his own hands. This did break Cat's heart. Also, they broke up because Cat shot him. Vincent was not yet back to his old self and Tori's presence (or the presence of any other beast) has been seen to bring out the worst of Vincent's beast side. They both drifted into other relationships but whilst I think Vincent and Tori's was not serious, (Vincent ended it with Tori just before she died and she accepted that she should never have tried to come between him and Cat) Cat did everything to convince herself (and Vincent) that her relationship with Gabe was the real thing. I think she was deluding herself as I don't think she ever stopped loving Vincent, but she knew they couldn't be together at that time, and she tried to protect herself from getting hurt again by throwing herself into a toxic relationship with Gabe. It was only a matter of time before Vincent could show her he had changed and she accepted her feelings for him had never gone away. After all, she started 2x16 saying she was still with Gabe but ended the episode telling Vincent that she loved him. Don't get me wrong, I hated them being apart and I hated seeing them in other relationships but I have to confess that this made their reunion in 2x15 and 2x16 all the more satisfying.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Oct 13, 2016 14:03:29 GMT -5
What got you into BATB?
I was channel surfing one day when I came across BATB. It was season 1 and the episode was Trapped (Ep.8) I found myself hooked almost immediately. Vincent was having his fuges and Cat walked in and, although it was clear that they were not a couple as such, the chemistry between them was very apparent. I set my SKY box to record the next episode which was of course 'Bridesmaid Up', one of my all time favourites. The sight of Vincent walking through those wafting voile curtains, all washed and scrubbed and Cat's face as the two of them had that first dance, gazing into each other's eyes..well, that was me gone. I don't think I've ever been the same since.
After that, I searched online and found a website where I could watch episodes 1-7 and I watched them practically back-to-back on one, amazing Saturday (I think I watched the last one about 2am). Disappointingly, the Episode 5 Saturn Returns link was not working and I didn't see it 'til months later, so I had to fill in the blanks myself until I finally got to see it.
What did you enjoy most about the show?
Like most people, the romance was what attracted me to the show, the chemistry between the two leads was off the charts, and also the comedy from JT, Tess and Heather. I was a lot happier when the former resigned as president of the 'Stay Away From Cat' club and encouraged Vincent to be honest about his feelings for her. I knew KK from Smallville. Although I had only watched a few episodes, I thought that she was absolutely beautiful. JR was a complete unknown to me but I remember thinking that in many ways, he was equally as beautiful as KK. It goes without saying that he has the body of a greek god but it was always his face that I loved the most. His dark, brooding but sad eyes (and that voice!!) I also remember thinking that the casting of Jay Ryan as the beast was a stroke of genius. I still think that way. NO ONE could have played Vincent Keller better than Jay. I was so drawn to the danger and vulnerability of Vincent from the start and fell in love with him straight away. I really cared about this man and felt the injustice of his situation and I wanted things to turn around for him. Getting Cat was obviously part of this as, even at this early stage, I felt that it was their destiny to be together and live happily ever after. That's why I can't imagine a scenario where either Cat or Vincent died and the other was left all alone.
What will you miss about the show?
I will miss waking up and looking forward to streaming the next episode on my laptop. That's what I will miss the most. The excitement of a new episode to enjoy and discuss with my fellow beasties on this forum. I will miss the entire cast and seeing them on my screen, but most of all, I will miss that VinCat connection.
Favourite behind-the-scenes footage/photo?
The one I like the best is the one of Jay and Kristin on the tandem in the BTS picture from VinCat's honeymoon. They just look so happy and relaxed.
Best moment or scene in batb overall?
Well this is almost impossible to choose. I am torn between the first dance at the wedding, the first kiss on the rooftop, the second kiss at the ball, the love scene at the end of AMP and the wedding. There's also the moment on the houseboat when Cat and Vincent got back together and the reunion on the rooftop in 216, Vincent producing the rose and Cat in that green dress with the snow falling. I think I am going to have to go for the wedding as it was probably when VinCat were happiest. As Vincent said, 'That moment I could live in forever'. Jay wiping the tear from Kristin's chin was my favourite ad-lib moment. It was such a natural thing to do.
Favourite episode?
Again, this is a tough one but I think I will have to go for' Heart of Darkness'. Great episode from start to finish but that conversation on the subway is possibly my favourite VinCat conversation in the whole show. AMP was a very close second though.
Favourite acting moment?
I'm torn between Kristin's scenes in 'Chasing Ghosts' and 'No Way Out'. I think the latter was a very important scene as Cat tried to outline why she had done the things that she had done and what it had cost Vincent and herself. Jay's performance in 'No way out' was also amazing as I thought at one point, he was going to be 'broken' during that interrogation and would never be the same. But Cat's love saved him...again.
Funniest moment?
The thought of JT throwing pencils at the ceiling in his office for three hours to give VinCat some alone time. I especially loved it when he left for the second time 'with more pencils'.
Favourite season?
Has to be season 1 because watching Vincent and Catherine slowly coming together and overcoming all the barriers to their relationship was such an amazing journey. The conversations and the looks they gave each other were just so good in Season 1. Only negative was that it's the only season that ends on a downer. Season 3 was definitely the best end to a season.
Favourite romantic moment?
I have given this one a lot of thought and finally, I think I have to go for the first kiss on the rooftop. It was a sad and hopeless moment, when Vincent knew everything was going to change as a result of him killing Darius. He gives Cat an 'out' and tells her he wants her to have what she wants but the relief is so apparent in his face when she declines his offer to walk away and she tells him that she loves him and wants to share everything, good and bad, with him. We were glued to our screens. We had waited and waited an eternity for this moment. We had had false dawns, interruptions and Alex getting in the way. This moment was so sweet that all their problems just melted away. The kiss itself was so perfect. It was intense and went on and on (not something we have often got on BATB as far TOO MANY of their romantic moments were cut short). It also left me imagining what happened next, when they finally broke apart. What on earth do you say to a man who has just kissed you like that? I loved the moments in BATB that allowed our own imaginations to fill in these blanks. The gap between the end of AMP and the start of Insatiable was another example of this. How our minds went into overdrive trying to picture what went on in that warehouse. I'm blushing at the very thought of that.
Craziest fangirling/fanboy moment? As in what's the craziest thing you have done for batb?
I haven't really done anything that crazy as, living in England, I'm rather on the edge of things. I did vote multiple times in all the polls and did go to extreme lengths to try to see episodes that had been shown in Canada or the US because I knew that they wouldn't be on UK screens for a while and I just couldn't wait. I have also re-watched some of the episodes and scenes so many times that I know the dialogue off by heart. I could turn the sound down and say all the lines myself.
Happy with the ending? If you could write an alternate ending/season 5 what would it be?
I am actually quite happy with the ending of Season 4. I think our favourite couple have been given a chance to lead a normal life. I think Vincent can probably go a long time without beasting out and the fresh start Cat got as an advocate will allow the possibility of a quieter time for her too and it allows for a possible family in the not too distant future. You know, I do love this couple as if they were real people and the thought of the madness continuing to follow them around is not appealing either. I want to imagine them happy and settled, wherever that may be.
After watching the finale, what you predict the writers wouldve done batb season 5?
I think the writers knew that it was ending and wrote the last episode accordingly. I think if they knew that there was going to be a Season 5, we might have had some sort of cliff-hanger, one where maybe VinCat's joint survival was in doubt until the next season opens. I also think the Muirfield story may have carried on into Season 5.
Has watching BATB changed you in any way? Learnt anything from the show?
One negative is that the end of the show has left a void that I am struggling to fill. Other shows are better written and have better plots and big budgets but nothing effects me or moves me like this little show. I have a feeling that nothing will ever be as close to my heart again. In many ways, I am afraid to get so involved in another show as it coming to an end feels like the death of a friend. I think I am still grieving and I won't be able to answer this question properly until enough time has elapsed for me to stop.
Thoughts/comments on the series as a whole:
Even though my heart is quite literally broken, I do not regret the time I have spent watching and re-watching BATB. It has enriched me and provided so much entertainment. It's also restored my faith in love and the human condition.
Finally, to my fellow beastie brothers (BeastieBoy, especially you) and sisters (too numerous to name you all), I will miss talking to you all and discussing the finer points of our most beloved show. Things that you love are always so much better when they are shared and I have shared many happy hours, reading all your posts and giving you my own thoughts and feelings on the plots and episodes, silly and serious, happy and sad, tragic and triumphant. What a roller-coaster it has been, but all rides have to come to an end and I guess this one is no exception.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Oct 5, 2016 12:55:56 GMT -5
My list might be the same as a lot of beasties as it probably covers most of the important moments in the relationship of Vincent & Catherine. Like BeastieBoy I cannot get my list below these 18 episodes so 18 it will have to be.
1 . The Pilot - Loved the action sequences and the way Cat came to realise that Vincent was someone she wanted to help and protect.
2. Worth - Really loved this episode. Cat was angry at Vincent for standing her up (although it wasn't his fault) and Vincent was jealous because he saw the kiss between Cat & Evan, but he still put his heart out there and shows his vulnerability. Cat admitted he was the best thing in her life. This was the moment I thought they were going to have their first kiss but in hindsight, I am glad they waited a little longer.
3. Bridesmaid up - The sight of Vincent peering through those wafting curtains like a dream and the dance as they gazed into each other's eyes. What more can I say.
4. Tough Love - Three reasons, the kiss, the kiss and then again the kiss. The most epic first kiss ever on any TV show and the moment we had all been waiting for didn't let us down.
5. Any Means Possible - The shirtless Vincent, the talks, the masquerade ball, that red dress, the second kiss (as epic as the first one) and the scene at the ware-house at the end.
6. Insatiable - Loved everything about this episode. The togetherness, the plot and the cliff-hanger.
7. Heart of Darkness - Mostly for the scene at the end on the subway. The conversation was amazing. But the whole episode was great.
8. Date Night - The 'commitment' talk in the pool and one of my favourite ever scenes, the one where Vincent contemplates taking another pill, takes it despite promising not to and then hugs and nuzzles the sleeping Cat. It was so real and natural and it sent shivers down my spine...and that music.
9. Catch me if you can - The realisation that Cat and Vincent have found a way back to each other. The fun scene in the car and the final scene where words were not required to tell us what was going to happen next.
10. About Last Night - The great scenes between Cat & Tess/Vincent and JT. The conversations at the ball, the roof and again, the cliff-hanger. Vincent looking slightly smug because he knows Cat is coming back to him. Ha! You lose, Gabe!
11. Beast Is The New Black - The conversations, the love, the desperation.
12. Deja Vue - Gabe learns there IS another use for a poole cue. Enough said.
13. The Beast of Wall Street - Simply the proposal. That and the first sight of Vincent as a Doctor.
14. Destined - This episode was action packed but still found time for the most perfect wedding ever. A definite high point.
15. It's a Wonderful Beast - Great to see Evan and Bob Reynolds again but also really liked Jay's performance in this one. This time it was Cat not remembering Vincent which was a reversal of the start of Season 2 when he could not remember Cat.
16. Love Is A Battlefield - Fun episode and the nearest thing we have had to an AMP scene since... well...AMP.
17. The Getaway - Sad and romantic in a beautiful setting. Only thing missing, would really like to have seen Vincent wrestle those bears.
And finally.......
18. Deja Vue - Really did like this episode and the way Vincent and Cat were on the same page for the whole episode, even sprinting after the Paris mugger together, hand in hand.
There are a few episodes that also deserve a mention, like Saturn Returns, All in and Basic Instinct (the first time Cat had to pee) and the Bob and Carol Episode in Season 3 was good. Really liked the sizzling houseboat scene in Kidnapped, Hothead (Vincent a fire-fighter? omg) and Cat slapping Gabe in Cat and Mouse but this will have to be my essential episode list.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Oct 4, 2016 19:51:20 GMT -5
THAT is the problem entirely: I can't actually get my faves down to 10. The first 7 were easy. But the last three slots. . . . I LOVED the first 5 episodes of BATB Season 1. Two of them are already in my top 7. That leaves the other three. But I also loved "Date Night" from Season 1, AND I really really loved "Cold Turkey," even if it was part of the Alex arc. But I also can't imagine my Favorites not including "Kidnapped" and "Hothead" from Season 2. So somehow 7 episodes has to fit into 3 remaining slots! Those first episodes of Season 1 just really showed Sassy Cat at her best. She doesn't let JT's displeasure with her warehouse visits deter her in the least. I LOVED that about Cat that she NEVER thought of even trying to come between JT and Vincent. She ALWAYS respected that relationship, even though JT came at her with a bat!! And JT's one-liners in those first episodes were just CLASSIC. And the way Vincent gets caught admitting to following Cat around during her work week when Cat comes to ask him just WHY he is so sure that Iris is innocent. (And obvioulsy Vincent would have HAD to be following Cat to even know that she arrested the wrong person in the first place.) So "Proceed With Caution" and "All In" just have so much to love about them. But "Kidnapped" just SIZZLED with the VinCat "pull," right up until that last scene, which was brutal and awful and one of the least favorites of Beasties of all times (talking about the slap heard round the Beastie world). But until then, LOVED how Cat unintentionally re-seduced her "ex" so successfully and quickly. And DESPITE Vincent attempting to fight it at times, he CAN'T stay away from Cat following this eppy. HE WANTS to be with her. THAT is why he is so HURT in "Liar, Liar" when he really believes that Cat was only using him and never really wanted to keep going with the relationship. And "Hothead" had Vincent desperate to confide in Cat and to be done with his missions because he wanted SO MUCH to be with her. So he is utterly completely RECKLESS in his desire to get the beast-list done in order to be with Cat. SO HIS GOAL by that time was to UNQUESTIONABLY be with Cat. And I loved how Vincent could not even hide his emotions from his HANDLER in "Hothead" about how much he wants to be with Cat. And he admits she is in his head (meaning, his HEART) and that he doesn't want to be without her. Not being able to move forward with Cat makes Vincent unhappy in every way and more mission-bound then ever. BUT IT IS ALL with the goal of being with Cat. SO LOVED THIS. Particularly as how ultimately confiding in Cat about his past memories of his family HELPS him solve the case. PLUS, you see how Vincent is just naturally CALMED by having Cat around him. He clearly TRUSTS Cat's judgment and really listens to her AND IS WILLING to go with Cat's plan to try to "cure" the Fire Beast. SO I LOVED "Hothead" for all it said about the VinCat relationship. NO MATTER the reboot, no matter the memory loss, Vincent could NOT imagine his life without the end-goal of a romantic relationship with Cat. THAT GOAL was what motivated him above all else. Somehow, I felt so many Beasties lost sight of the strong Beastie-friendly undertones of this episode due to the other stuff. I think that so many Beasties dislike "Hothead" due this episode making it obvious that Tess still isn't really pro-Vincent BUT is potentially pro-Gabe AND wants Gabe with Cat in the way she seems convinced to make it her mission to get Gabe to realize that he is in love with Cat. Which led to my near season-long grudge with Tess. I was even coming to tolerate Gabe's presence until I realized that Gabe would NOT be about the power of reformation BUT would in fact be a potential love-interest for Cat. Which would NEVER be alright with me. Sigh. But if you ignore some of those unpleasant Gabe and Tess undertones, "Hothead" is otherwise a wonderful VinCat episode for me. And I LOVE how Vincent just naturally reaches to kiss Cat before going into the building. He is showing her (and himself) that their relationship WILL be their future. And that she is the one to help him resolve his issues and be able to heal. That final 911 memorial scene just cemented that for me. Vincent seemed to be coming back to himself by leaps and bounds, which was why "Reunion" so unsettled me. So I guess "Hothead," "Proceed With Caution," and "All In" complete my Top 10. But "Cold Turkey" and "Kidnapped" and "Date Night" really want to nudge some others out. WOW. I am for changing the category to Top 15 Episodes of all time!! My favourite line in 'Proceed with Caution' is at the end when Vincent says, 'You've seen me when I don't want anyone to see me, and you still haven't run'. Jay looks so young and there was something so vulnerable about Vincent in those early Season 1 episodes. 'All in' wasn't going to be in my top 10 but that last scene on the fire-escape...when Cat says 'I just wish you were a normal guy' and Vincent looks down and says 'ouch'. Just love that scene. It is just so bitter-sweet. I fell in love with Vincent when he said 'ouch'.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 30, 2016 8:20:25 GMT -5
I would like to share my top 10 episodes but at the moment my list is at 15. I'll have to whittle it down to 10 and get back to you.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 18, 2016 9:00:18 GMT -5
My opinion of 'Au Revoir' is that, like the rest of our beloved show, it was flawed but still utterly wonderful. Plot holes and ridiculous stunts abound in this latest and last instalment but who cares. It was full of heart, and full of soul and tied everything up better than I could have imagined. Here are some thoughts, I apologise in advance if this post goes on too long.
What went well for me was as much what was left out as what was included. I for one was relieved that Vincent was not cured. We met him as a beast and like Cat, we fell in love with him as a beast. We saw him succumb at times over the last 4 seasons to his animal nature but triumph in the end, learning to live with and even enjoy the accidental advantages that came with his altered DNA. Of course he will now have to be extra careful not to expose himself in Paris, otherwise his fresh start with Cat would be in jeopardy but this is a small price to pay for the super-powers that he has.
I also, did not need to see beastie babies being pushed around in strollers to believe that they are on the cards in the not too distant future for VinCat. I think the point of the second ' false alarm' in 'Something's gotta give' was to show us how far they had come as a couple since the first discussion in Season 1. They would now take the patter of tiny feet in their stride and probably be great parents. The important thing is that they now have a future where all things are possible.
It was nice to see that things had come full circle for Cat and she was a qualified lawyer. This shows that she now has closure for her mum's death and no longer feels the need to fight for justice. She will do it in the courts and not constantly put her life (and Vincent's) in danger. We didn't find out what Vincent was going to do but I like to think that, once his French is up to speed, he will resume working as a doctor in the ER of a busy Paris hospital. It goes without saying that, neither of them will hesitate to step in if someone needs saving as was shown in the final scene. It's comforting to know that that will never change for our beloved pair.
My wish list for the finale was simple. I am easily pleased. I wanted Vincent and Catherine to both survive, for them to be together but not be permanently separated from their friends/family. I wanted their names to be cleared and Vincent especially to not be considered a monster, murderer or a terrorist. Braxton had to die - Prison not enough to prevent him from future atrocity. I got all of that, so I really can't complain. It was especially pleasing to see the look of sheer guilt and regret on the face of the previously smug and superior Agent Dylan, as she was forced to hear the eulogy of JT, proclaiming Cat and Vincent as heroes. I do like to think they were somewhere nearby, listening. The actress was great, by the way, and played her part really well or I wouldn't have hated her so much. Faking their deaths was, I feel, something that occurred to them as a possible advantage of being last seen plummeting off the Queensboro Bridge in a burning vehicle. It was genius, although they took a huge risk as they had no idea when the car was actually going to explode. Vincent has a talent for escaping from explosions (Zhaio's Lab and Tori's apartment - Season 2) so I guess he knew what he was doing. I loved that VinCat did everything together in this episode. I loved the fact that she puts her life in his hands and trusts that he will save her. I even loved the fact that she had to pee again, at the wrong moment, and he took the time to tell her he loved her and kiss her even though they were about to jump into the Prince's car and risk their lives again. I thought they were going to take down Braxton too but that honour fell to JT&T, in their anger and grief at losing their best friends. The goodbyes prior to the action were heartbreaking, especially JT's angry tirade at Vincent and then the hug that they shared. Vincent's words "We ARE brothers, and I don't want to lose another one anymore than you do", showing that JT meant as much to him as the two he lost on 9/11.
I actually liked it that there was a lull at the start of the episode, a gradual build up to the action. Cat and Vincent settled their affairs and had nothing else to do but wait and reflect on what they were going to leave behind. I don't agree with some people that this episode felt rushed. It was the exact opposite for me. I felt it built up the tension beautifully.
Someone said that Vincent did not beast out in this episode or the last one. This is not strictly true as he had to beast out to escape his underwater prison last week, and this week, his eyes glowed in the limo, showing the Prince who or what he was. The Prince's testimony that was to follow and the evidence that Braxton had faked his death and had planned the whole thing cleared Vincent's name and showed the powers that be that Cat was justified in standing by him. It also showed DHS how short-sighted they had been, again, falling for the oldest trick in the book and running around with their heads up their asses (great put-down from Tess by the way), after the wrong man. I wonder how that interrogator feels now, after all the things he said to Vincent in the cell. I hope he's choking on his spaghetti and meatballs.
It wouldn't be a balanced post if I didn't also say what was wrong with the episode/storyline. Plot-hole number 1 is how did Braxton convince Vincent that Garrus and Eklund had been killed by an invisible beast? Vincent sensed Gabe killing Ray Sheckman a year later but couldn't see Braxton killing Eklund and Garrus minutes before? Also it was never really explained how Vincent knew when and where his own funeral would be when he told the guy from the Biotech company to meet JT there and renew his job offer. Unless, planning their own funerals was one of the loose ends they tied up in their downtime. But these are small and insignificant gripes in the grand scheme of things.
One last comment is although Paris is great, I would have loved them to have settled in my own home town, London. As well as the obvious advantage of being the only country in Europe that speaks the same language, that way, I could fantasize that the next time I am feeding the pigeons in Trafalgar Square, I might just look up to see a familiar couple sitting on the bench across from me, making out, or just looking at each other in that special way they do. Lovingly and protectively. I really must now try to get a life but whatever I do, I don't think Cat and Vincent will be far from my thoughts and that's a pretty strong impression that this show has left on me. That's it's legacy. Roll on Season 4 DVD release day and what about a complete series blu-ray box set in the future? Come on people. Make it happen. It goes without saying that a season 5 would be pretty welcome too.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 14, 2016 12:45:59 GMT -5
Not to squelch people's hopes but the finale is not 40 mins of VinCat. And just to prepare you all, here's a clip which I'm guessing based on people's comments will be viewed with disappointment and annoyance I'm not too worried. All the sneak peeks tend to be at the beginning of the episode and do not give too much away. We knew Kyle was going to be forgiven. Neither Vincent or Cat blamed him so it was only a matter of time before Heather did. It gives him a chance to redeem himself.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 14, 2016 12:41:48 GMT -5
Thanks pippin for finding this. I clearly remember transcribing this piece. LOL. Great scene. Love it. How baddass is Cat? "No-one you wanna mess with".
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 9, 2016 14:56:27 GMT -5
My thoughts on this one. Just the fact that it is the next to last episode ever was painful. With that said, we deserved MUCH better. For the next-to-last ever episode, I didn't want a bulk of it to be Vincent being tortured. Especially this close to 9/11 in the US. It was a slap in the face to imply that far too many soldiers go this route of bitterness, etc. I KNOW it is just supposed to be a television show, but I didn't like that whole thing coming this close to the 15th anniversary. The memorial scene was supposed to make up for it, but that whole torture scene was everything that reportedly/allegedly is wrong about the interrogation methods for anyone that gets classified a "terrorist." And in Vincent's case, it was dead wrong. (I know you can't just tip-toe around certain issues JUST because it is September. Plus, they would NOT have known when this episode would have aired, since it was filmed around last October. But it just BOTHERED me for it to come out now. OR MAYBE it was seeing Vincent tortured in that way. Jay made you BELIEVE it was real, and my disgust and need to vomit was most likely induced due to seeing such a beloved character tortured.) And HOW obvious was Braxton in DELIBERATELY making that "supposed" second apartment in Vincent's name and everything. And the fact that DHS and law enforcement did NOT have this critical apartment ROPED OFF AND GUARDED. Because it IS supposed to be a Crime Scene. So Braxton can just come and go as he pleased? Before I go further, I HAVE to say the following: Jay's and KK's performances were PHENOMENAL. They BOTH deserve Emmy nominations and wins for emotionally running the gamut in their scenes. KK seemingly emotionally stunted in jail following her come-apart at her mother's old grave. And the fact that she still DOESN'T have so much resolved and NEVER will. And the fact that she and Vincent BOTH feel so driven to make up for the Sins of Others. KK just NAILED that graveyard scene. Yes, Nicole noticeably cried, but she just did NOT have the same range as KK. (BUT I didn't like the rather poor editing of that scene. They clearly spliced multiple takes and didn't cover the fact up. BATB deserves more.) But Cat being tortured over her mother at that time, while somewhat understandable, seemed wrong when Vincent was lost to them and most likely suffering. I would have rather seen Cat agonizing over what IS, not over what was and can't be changed. YET THE WRITERS were going for "resolution," so they chose NOW for her to go through this stuff. Rush to the end and all that. But it ticked me off and kept me from FULLY appreciating KK's heart-wrenching performance. And Jay was INCREDIBLE in playing the agonized Innocent Man. The way Vincent is basically suffering BUT still trying to get INFORMATION and make sense of what has happened, all while continuously being battered, sleep-deprived, and food deprived (based on what that head guy was saying). BUT Vincent supposedly doesn't have self-healing properties in his current form, so I was confused how he would NOT have broken bones. As emotionally torn-up as Vincent was at times, I expected more from that Reunion with Cat. ESPECIALLY because of what had happened to him. And ENOUGH with the montages if ALL you are going to show me is the same play of SCENES from S1-2, with the only other addition of a second from the 2 MINUTES you gave us for VinCat's wedding. I WOULD HAVE LOVED LOVED LOVED to have scene Vincent remembering a VINCAT MOMENT that us viewers had NEVER seen before. A beautiful flashback to maybe some troubling time in the past OR EVEN this season when before the passion begins, they have one of their beautiful sweet moments that have SO been missing in recent seasons. And how something Cat would have said would have resonated with Vincent now. But no. We CAN'T get NEW SCENES, even when the show is almost gone for good. So YES, I was sadly ticked off by a large part of this episode. Even though I really DID see where they were TRYING to go with this one--they wanted to show how VinCat have come FULL CIRCLE. Which, quite frankly, is SAD, as the "full circle" seems to imply they were meant for hardship and to suffer and to CONSTANTLY BERATE those that came before them and hurt them. I almost felt that the Writers WERE trying to tell Vincent that he SHOULD feel and react in the way that they claim. THE POINT OF ALL THAT WAS TO SHOW HOW VINCAT'S LOVE SAVED VINCENT from completely succombing to PAIN and resentment. But wasn't that the WHOLE POINT of episode 405? I GOT THE POINT THEN, I didn't need it re-iterated in this horrifying manner for Vincent is the next-to-last episode. Just how I feel on this one. THE WRITERS NEEDED MORE TIME TO GET OUT THESE CONCEPTS then they got. The were trying to throw Plot in with emotions and coming full circle, and I feel they did a poor job AND REUSED HOW MANY SCENES WHEN THEY NEEDED THE EPISODE TIME AS-IS. How much time did they show Vincent (OR CLEARLY JAY's stunt double! That REALLY irked me when you could SEE it wasn't Jay for part of it--I mean COME ON, don't they teach you in film school about how to AT LEAST make it APPEAR to really be your main character doing the shot?). Yes, PLEASE understand that there were things I appreciated out of the episode. But I felt Beasties (and VinCat) deserved more. And sadly, I DIDN'T want JT/Tess or JT/Heather scenes last night. I wanted FAR more emphasis on VinCat. I LOVED that VinCat chose a repeat visit to the 9/11 Memorial, BUT AGAIN it was clear that they were JUST reusing footage and basically shooting against a green screen, and that kept me from being able to fully appreciate the scene. IT WAS TOO OBVIOUS about some of the points being made in the episode and repetitive dialogue. I don't like knowing what is fixing to come out of people's mouths. AND TESS' REPEATED SMIRKS at inappropriate times of dialogue were somehow left in. I kept feeling that you could TELL the cast was frankly LAUGHING behind the scenes at things, so even they were bothered by the way things played out. But HEY, I guess they needed the laughs after having to do some of those OTHER scenes in the episode, so I can't blame them all for that. But I CAN blame a director that seemingly cut the footage that way or left a scene badly edited. I KNOW that they just wanted to finish and get out of there, but TRY people. Really. The CW should have paid out MORE money for the RIGHT things to have been done at Series end. But it is what it is. But I am TRULY bummed to hear so many cast members and crew saying 412 is better and more romantic than 413. That just says EVERYTHING to me. Becuase the only REAL romance in this episode was in showing PAST scenes. And rehashing PAST moments AND gripes. Burning down the remaining time by showing flashbacks that we have SEEN over and over and over and over again in montages. GIVE ME SOMETHING NEW before the series goes away forever. Is that really too much to ask for? Did they actually say this was more romantic than 4x13? I know a few said they liked this one better. It was certainly VERY emotional. I was very close to tears on more than one occasion during the course of the episode. The acting, especially by Jay was heartbreaking. I wanted to bust him out of that cell myself and make the emotional abuse stop. The guy that was interrogating him was very well played and the scripting of the things that he was saying to Vincent were truly traumatizing both for Vincent and us beasties watching. I will struggle to re-watch that scene. The scene at the grave with Cat & Heather was very emotional too and beautifully played by Kristin & Nicole.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 9, 2016 14:46:24 GMT -5
Not only do I like both of your posts alwayscrazedbatbfan , I can actually SIGN them. I nodded in agreement while reading. This episode did not do it for me AT ALL. I am still at a loss exactly HOW Vincent connected the dots that Braxton MUST be alive?I think it's not crystal clear but my guess is that he had listed people who knew he was a beast and were involved with Muirfield/Graydal on his wall. He had seen all the other's dead bodies but if you remember, there was so little left of Braxton that the only way to identify him was DNA and Dental records, both of which Braxton himself had access to and could plant after the fact. Also, why would the new beast leave Garrus and Ecklund recognisable but mutilate Braxton so much that he could not be recognised. A little too convenient really. Garrus had said that he and Ecklund had set Braxton up to take the blame, once the government found out what they had been doing, so Braxton had a motive to kill them both and frame Vincent. Vincent always had the pieces of the jigsaw and being in that cell, he had time to think about it and he used the Cat hallucination to focus his mind and come up with the only logical explanation.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 8, 2016 11:37:27 GMT -5
Well, Pippin, when you put it like that.... Actually, I don't think Zach was a bad guy. He wasn't when Vincent first knew him but I think that he was a tool for the writers to show what Vincent could have turned into if he had allowed himself to be eaten up with anger and revenge and hadn't had someone to help him keep his humanity (obviously JT, and later, Cat). Zach just spent too much time brooding on his own and became unhinged, looking for someone to blame for his situation. He killed the woman he loved then blamed Vincent for stealing her from him and ruining his life, because Muirfield were gone so he had no other outlet for his hatred. I was thinking bad guy in terms of once he was turned into a beast. Supposedly, they all went nuts in Afghanistan and started killing people, even Vincent. According to Partners in Crime, Vincent even killed "innocent" people there. Zach tracked down Gabriella and killed her in 2005, so while the writers may have wanted to show what Vincent might have become without love in his life, it wasn't like Zach only turned into a crazy killer after a decade of being alone and Muirfield was out of the picture. I think his character did play into the bigger storyline of the first half of season 2 that seemingly being a beast = bad so they could break up VinCat and set up Cat's being able to forgive Gabe's previous beastly behavior. Absolutely, I had forgotten that scene between Cat & Tess, when Tess asks Cat if Vincent has ever hurt anyone innocent and she replies 'Not since Afghanistan, No!!' Of course we are getting into very murky waters about what is 'acceptable' in war, but I seem to remember a Muirfield agent mentioning Vincent's unit wiping out a whole village which would have meant women and children too (that's if he was telling Cat the truth, of course). Maybe it's the romantic in me that believes that Vincent, being the hero in this show, always had more control than the others or that he found a level of control quicker than the others would have. After all, his CO spared Vincent because he could see that there was still good in him. How did he know this? He must have observed Vincent's actions during this time and seen that he was not as bad as the others. I agree that Zach was another device to show us beasts only getting worse and Vincent's behaviour similarly changes for the better when he has prolonged contact with Cat and it worsened when he either couldn't remember her or they broke up. This links in nicely with the theme of this season that wherever they are, they have to be together. Vincent can't go and leave Cat behind because he knows that without her, he could lapse back into the beast that he was in Afghanistan and the one we saw at the very beginning and middle of Season 2. Cat loves him and wouldn't allow him to suffer that fate and she loves him because he is a good person who wants to save people. He has earned her love. Gabe was the anomaly because even though he was freed from the beast within, and he perhaps tried to be a good person and save people, it was NOT in his nature so he ended up being as bad as he was when he was a beast, killing someone to hide a murder of someone else, planning to kill Vincent to save his own skin and generally scheming to get what he wants. These are depths Vincent has never stooped to, even though he IS a beast.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Sept 6, 2016 12:22:24 GMT -5
Too late now, but I really wish they would have done that at the start of S4, just to see if it had any affect on the US ratings. But with the CW dragging things out, the ratings have already suffered with the last two eps. I doubt there will be any difference for the final two. Yes, what an absolute travesty! Such a wonderful show and talented cast which should have been given all the support that appeared to only go to the other CW shows. I truly wish I knew why they undervalued this show and its cast so much! I think they should have showed the whole series of BATB in Canada and the US on the SAME night. That way it wouldn't have been spoiled for anyone. I don't think the last two episode ratings will be a lot more. Most people in the US will probably be unaware it's even on (apart from us Beasties, of course) as the 'dragging-out' of the last few episodes has ruined any momentum the show might have built up. If it ain't Marvel or DC universe related, and been done many, many times before, CW aren't interested. After 10 Seasons of Arrow, Flash and Supergirl, who will still be watching CW? Not me. I'll be re-watching my BATB DVD's, sobbing into my tissues and lamenting what might have been.
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Post by AlisongladaboutSeason4 on Aug 30, 2016 19:37:19 GMT -5
I don't know if I really want an open scenario for the end... not that I don't want BATB to have a future but I think there are lot of things that were messed up in the story due to whoever you want and lot of people (too many) that criticize the show. I think that if there will be a S5 following S4 path, it will logically be another case of repetition of them hunting beast, exposure problems and bla bla bla and not another S1 like, again, lot of people (too many, again) seem to want, with more critics. Plus this would lead to a false hope in case it doesn't happen and I would feel more sorry in that case. I prefer a proper end (we already know that it will be bittersweet so I don't go on with their perfect happily ever after since last year) and, hopefully, a fresh start: new channel, new writers, new story like a spin off so they can build a new fanbase. Just my two cents: I can't see the last pic of them on the carriage being the last scene combined with the pic of them hurry clothed in the same way. What if our lovely couple is spending their time together away from beasts and dangers but they saw someone really in danger and they can't help but intervene? Hopefully without beasting out but with Vincent using his doctor skill ... so there could be an ambulance and a nurse in their new world and she could ask Vincent how he managed to do that and "why don't you become a doctor"?. in S3 Cat said that they were born to help people she as a cop and him as a doctor. Just some speculation from me. If I had to mention something that I really miss on BATB not for my own pleasure is seeing them celebrating Christmas for example or Vincent's or JT's birthday... poor men! Every show has its Christmas episode but our BATBIn Season 1, Saturn Returns, Tess and Heather throw a party for Cat's birthday and in Season 2 Held Hostage, Tess has her 30th (although she is nearly killed so not much of a party really). Vincent tells Cat to go and enjoy her party as she's lucky to have one. He and JT sadly hadn't celebrated a birthday in 10 years. It would be nice to see them celebrate something as the only other celebration of note was, of course, the wedding.
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