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Post by corinne on Jul 22, 2015 14:30:20 GMT -5
Oh?! What's going on?
It's not so long that I joined this board, I love it here, please peace !!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 22, 2015 14:38:20 GMT -5
WOW.............what is going on here?? I have been here since Katie and Karen started this BaTB Forum. I haven't posted as much as I did in the beginning but I am not sure why many are feeling put down? I know there were times of frustration and negativity in Season 2.....and many didn't want so much negativity for fear that we wouldn't get additional seasons, but now we got Season 3 AND Season 4. We should all be able to express our views, positive or negative without feeling backlash?? Honestly, I haven't really seen the kind of backlash that was evident in Season 2. I have a feeling like there is a lot of Private Messaging and conversations that are going on behind the scenes and most of us are left scratching our heads. If there are things going on between Mods and others, then that puts things into a different light. But when others are left scratching our heads and then BAM, many are leaving without some explanation it hurts everyone. I really would like to know what is the Main Issue here and can we all have some discussion without everyone feeling attacked? If you are bored with the show and not much engaged then I understand that. But for those active members who just decide to leave, it speaks to a bigger problem that some MODs and ADMINS should at least address. Please, if you care about this fandom, and this forum, I think it warrants at least a thread of discussion? I am asking the MODS and ADMINS to please shed some light on this situation or risk losing more Beasties. I really am saddened that there are underlying issues that maybe could be improved upon. My best guess would be some are feeling disheartened that our current season is not integrating those elements we received in the past two seasons. In all honesty, there is no guarantee that we will see those elements during these last six episodes of our current season. However, provided that we have been granted a fourth season, they are presented with an opportunity to vocalize to the writers how much they would love to see these elements in season four, potentially season five as I have stated quite a few times now.
Further, many seem to be under the impression that they are being silenced, attacked, dictated to, which is not the case here. Which is why I agree with you when you had stated many conversations are going on behind the scenes where some had reached the conclusion they are feeling excluded, prompting them to leave.I have been on this board since Dec of 2012 and yes things have changed here. The main problem is that people are being objective about things. The idea of a discussion is to discuss and read different views and discuss more. Nowadays some feel that why come to the board to express discontent with an episode when instead of discussing they feel that they are being silenced,attacked and dictated to for doing so. It's become a thing that if you don't like the episode don't say anything cause it's negative and your putting people down. I've read a few posts stating just that. So it's okay to post 15,000 posts of how I love this show and episode but oh no posts about the dislikes or gripes with an episode because it brings on negativity. This happened in season 2 and again now in season 3. We lost a few folks during season 2 cause of the fact that they felt uncomfortable for expressing their opinions. You guys may not see it cause some are fairly new but this is exactly what is happening again. Just cause you view one thing one way doesn't mean others have to or be forced to. One thing I've learned is to respect other people's opinions and views. I admit that I'm loving this season and I've expressed that. When I quote a post to someone who isn't liking the season or an episode I tell them why I liked it. Not try to change there minds to like it too. It's their right to dislike as its mine to like. As much as I don't like them to go....I think they made the right decision. They are unhappy and feel disconnected from this board then I believe they did the right thing. And as sad as it may sound they aren't the last. .I see many more Beasties jump the shark not from the show but from this board. Who knows I may be next. Although I'm losing my friends. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura have been here a very long time and even though we've had different points of views more then once it's always been a pleasure to have meaniful and insightful discussions with them which is what is lacking now. I respect their decision and wish them the very best.
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Post by Reyna on Jul 22, 2015 15:28:07 GMT -5
My best guess would be some are feeling disheartened that our current season is not integrating those elements we received in the past two seasons. In all honesty, there is no guarantee that we will see those elements during these last six episodes of our current season. However, provided that we have been granted a fourth season, they are presented with an opportunity to vocalize to the writers how much they would love to see these elements in season four, potentially season five as I have stated quite a few times now.
Further, many seem to be under the impression that they are being silenced, attacked, dictated to, which is not the case here. Which is why I agree with you when you had stated many conversations are going on behind the scenes where some had reached the conclusion they are feeling excluded, prompting them to leave.I have been on this board since Dec of 2012 and yes things have changed here. The main problem is that people are being objective about things. The idea of a discussion is to discuss and read different views and discuss more. Nowadays some feel that why come to the board to express discontent with an episode when instead of discussing they feel that they are being silenced,attacked and dictated to for doing so. It's become a thing that if you don't like the episode don't say anything cause it's negative and your putting people down. I've read a few posts stating just that. So it's okay to post 15,000 posts of how I love this show and episode but oh no posts about the dislikes or gripes with an episode because it brings on negativity. This happened in season 2 and again now in season 3. We lost a few folks during season 2 cause of the fact that they felt uncomfortable for expressing their opinions. You guys may not see it cause some are fairly new but this is exactly what is happening again. Just cause you view one thing one way doesn't mean others have to or be forced to. One thing I've learned is to respect other people's opinions and views. I admit that I'm loving this season and I've expressed that. When I quote a post to someone who isn't liking the season or an episode I tell them why I liked it. Not try to change there minds to like it too. It's their right to dislike as its mine to like. As much as I don't like them to go....I think they made the right decision. They are unhappy and feel disconnected from this board then I believe they did the right thing. And as sad as it may sound they aren't the last. .I see many more Beasties jump the shark not from the show but from this board. Who knows I may be next. Although I'm losing my friends. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura have been here a very long time and even though we've had different points of views more then once it's always been a pleasure to have meaniful and insightful discussions with them which is what is lacking now. I respect their decision and wish them the very best. Another issue is high expectations. When someone bases their expectations on the spoilers, promos, and sneak peeks, and sets the bar very high for, that person winds up end being disappointed. Once again, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinions whether positive or negative, yet touch on both the pros and cons of the season/episode.
It is all about voicing your pros/cons of an episode/season, what you want to see going forward, rather than inadvertently forcing some of us into repetitious discussions where we are continually having to support/defend are differing views.
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Post by Andromeda03 on Jul 22, 2015 15:53:51 GMT -5
Another issue is high expectations. When someone bases their expectations on the spoilers, promos, and sneak peeks, and sets the bar very high for, that person winds up end being disappointed. Once again, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinions whether positive or negative, yet touch on both the pros and cons of the season/episode.
It is all about voicing your pros/cons of an episode/season, what you want to see going forward, rather than inadvertently forcing some of us into repetitious discussions where we are continually having to support/defend are differing views.
Very true, no one has to have a pro about something if they don't have one, whether its BatB related or not, nor does anyone have to have a con about something if they don't have one, people are also okay to have mixed feelings on things. You can be 'con' one episode, 'pro' the next, and after that be 'pro/con' and iffy about another episode. It doesn't really matter. No one should feel like they have keep quiet either on their true feelings. Which brings me to then say that I am very saddened to hear though that people feel like they need to defend their positions, no matter what side it is. It makes it sound like a war is going on and that's no fun for any one. Because in the end, I think this feeling of 'needing to defend' is what might be playing a role in some of the posting habits of members (aka people not posting at all), and might also be a factor in why some people feel they are better leaving. Which is a real shame. No one should have to feel like they have to defend their views.
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Post by Reyna on Jul 22, 2015 16:05:12 GMT -5
Another issue is high expectations. When someone bases their expectations on the spoilers, promos, and sneak peeks, and sets the bar very high for, that person winds up end being disappointed. Once again, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinions whether positive or negative, yet touch on both the pros and cons of the season/episode.
It is all about voicing your pros/cons of an episode/season, what you want to see going forward, rather than inadvertently forcing some of us into repetitious discussions where we are continually having to support/defend are differing views.
Very true, no one has to have a pro about something if they don't have one, whether its BatB related or not, nor does anyone have to have a con about something if they don't have one, people are also okay to have mixed feelings on things. You can be 'con' one episode, 'pro' the next, and after that be 'pro/con' and iffy about another episode. It doesn't really matter. No one should feel like they have keep quiet either on their true feelings.Which brings me to then say that I am very saddened to hear though that people feel like they need to defend their positions, no matter what side it is. It makes it sound like a war is going on and that's no fun for any one. Because in the end, I think this feeling of 'needing to defend' is what might be playing a role in some of the posting habits of members (aka people not posting at all), and might also be a factor in why some people feel they are better leaving. Which is a real shame. No one should have to feel like they have to defend their views. Which is the point I was attempting to make.
To be clear, yes everyone is entitled to love/hate, like/dislike an episode/season, yet many feel they are being silenced, attacked, dictated to for liking/loving an episode/season where you have those who feel they are being silenced, attacked, dictated to for disliking/hating an episode.
Overall, this forum has turned/turning into a double-edge sword.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 22, 2015 16:18:14 GMT -5
Nowadays some feel that why come to the board to express discontent with an episode when instead of discussing they feel that they are being silenced,attacked and dictated to for doing so. It's become a thing that if you don't like the episode don't say anything cause it's negative and your putting people down. I've read a few posts stating just that. So it's okay to post 15,000 posts of how I love this show and episode but oh no posts about the dislikes or gripes with an episode because it brings on negativity. This happened in season 2 and again now in season 3. We lost a few folks during season 2 cause of the fact that they felt uncomfortable for expressing their opinions. You guys may not see it cause some are fairly new but this is exactly what is happening again. VinCat❤Destined, I honestly haven't read anywhere, this Season, the type of negativity and the backlash that happened in Season 2. Please point me in the direction of a discussion that represents that because I don't see it. That is what is so confusing. I know this because I was on the other end of backlash for my "negative" comments about Vincent pushing Catherine or the whole Alex fiasco. I know individuals that left at that time because of the "push" to tone down the criticism due to the uncertain nature of the renewals. I just am not seeing this again and the reason some new people are questioning this is because they are not seeing this either. What I am questioning is that if you are unhappy with the season and state reasons why, that's OK..........and if that is the case and you don't "enjoy" commenting anymore, I understand that ............but what is being "Implied" is that people are getting some backlash or feel they must not post negative things? And......if many people are feeling this is NOT happening, then it paints all of us in BAD light. It gives new people that impression too. If anapi -season3baby :) and Laura feel unhappy here and things have changed here that they don't feel like putting any effort, then it is the right decision for them to leave. I will miss them both as well. But, the impression I got is that they didn't feel like people could state how they feel here at the forum. And that makes me feel upset because we all should have the right to express our opinions. I know one individual that likes to see more "Cat" and expresses their displeasure with all the "Vincentcentric" episodes, but they have been saying that from Day 1........we know who it is but it never gets out of control. Other than that, maybe some individuals just don't want to hear anything negative and they leave for that reason. I can understand that, but I have to disagree that we haven't had some "meaniful and insightful discussions" on the episodes this season. I don't know, I am more confused than ever. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura........will miss you both. You made the long Hiatus bearable by sharing all things BaTB. Thank you. Wishing you all the best and hope you enjoy the rest of the Series. I hope you do stay in touch here.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 22, 2015 18:24:15 GMT -5
Suzieq ❤️ Beastie In a recent posts a few members posted that that the negativity of a few was bringing them down. I'm sure NON meant it to upset anyone or for them to take it the wrong way. But it was.I think that the fact anapi -season3baby :) and Laura disagree with the majority is the problem. So what if they don't like some aspects of the season? So what if they don't think like the 'majority'? Again we all can't think or feel the same, this life would be so boring if that were the case. I LOVE this season and nothing they've said will change that. And I can't change how they feel I wouldn't want too and I don't get upset or feel negative cause they express and feel differently. They are in their right! If they can't be themselves and think differently then why bother to be here? To become self-aware, people must be allowed to hear a plurality of opinions and then make up their own minds. They must be allowed to say, write and publish whatever they want. Freedom of expression is the most basic, but fundamental, right. Without it, human beings are reduced to automatons. Ma JianWe are not robots, we aren't made to be identical to everyone else, this is where the issue lies. . This situation isn't something that has happened overnight, this issues stems for a while now. Now let's move on..what done is done, All we can do is learn from it Yolie
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 22, 2015 18:56:07 GMT -5
If they can't be themselves and think differently then why bother to be here? Yolie That is the point! We need to all respect everyone's opinion. If someone is positive or negative, it should be OK to express it and not feel bad for feeling that way. We CAN learn from it but at what cost? People leaving?? Can we try to set out to have some consensus to not "point out" someone's opinion as "bringing down the forum" and try to listen to the other person opinion and state yours and move on? If we don't address this then it will happen again. So, my thought is that try to all enjoy the remaining Seasons as little and as much as possible. Saying things "negative" should not be singled out as "bringing down" the forum. I am sure there will be some exciting episodes remaining and we are all impatient for the storyline to move along. I ask that all of us try to balance ourselves and see the "good and not so good" in each remaining episode. I haven't see the next episode..........I was really excited but read comments that express both sides........that's OK.........I will watch and judge for myself. I hope people will still come out and give their views. There is a lot of BaTB left and I sure will be here till the end to support it. (In anyway I can) Let's all try to take a deep breath and realize why we came here in the first place. We all love a great Love Story. Hugs to all! Learning.........always learning......
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 22, 2015 19:02:56 GMT -5
If they can't be themselves and think differently then why bother to be here? Yolie That is the point! We need to all respect everyone's opinion. If someone is positive or negative, it should be OK to express it and not feel bad for feeling that way. We CAN learn from it but at what cost? People leaving?? Can we try to set out to have some consensus to not "point out" someone's opinion as "bringing down the forum" and try to listen to the other person opinion and state yours and move on? If we don't address this then it will happen again. So, my thought is that try to all enjoy the remaining Seasons as little and as much as possible. Saying things "negative" should not be singled out as "bringing down" the forum. I am sure there will be some exciting episodes remaining and we are all impatient for the storyline to move along. I ask that all of us try to balance ourselves and see the "good and not so good" in each remaining episode. I haven't see the next episode..........I was really excited but read comments that express both sides........that's OK.........I will watch and judge for myself. I hope people will still come out and give their views. There is a lot of BaTB left and I sure will be here till the end to support it. (In anyway I can) Let's all try to take a deep breath and realize why we came here in the first place. We all love a great Love Story. Hugs to all! Learning.........always learning...... Yes, but with a cost.. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura have bought so much to this board... When I haven't been able to update you guys on info they have. So we've lost two very special people IMO. They will be missed big time! And what a loss to the board in general. My opinion as well
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 22, 2015 19:24:04 GMT -5
That is the point! We need to all respect everyone's opinion. If someone is positive or negative, it should be OK to express it and not feel bad for feeling that way. We CAN learn from it but at what cost? People leaving?? Can we try to set out to have some consensus to not "point out" someone's opinion as "bringing down the forum" and try to listen to the other person opinion and state yours and move on? If we don't address this then it will happen again. So, my thought is that try to all enjoy the remaining Seasons as little and as much as possible. Saying things "negative" should not be singled out as "bringing down" the forum. I am sure there will be some exciting episodes remaining and we are all impatient for the storyline to move along. I ask that all of us try to balance ourselves and see the "good and not so good" in each remaining episode. I haven't see the next episode..........I was really excited but read comments that express both sides........that's OK.........I will watch and judge for myself. I hope people will still come out and give their views. There is a lot of BaTB left and I sure will be here till the end to support it. (In anyway I can) Let's all try to take a deep breath and realize why we came here in the first place. We all love a great Love Story. Hugs to all! Learning.........always learning...... Yes, but with a cost.. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura have bought so much to this board... When I haven't been able to update you guys on info they have. So we've lost two very special people IMO. They will be missed big time! And what a loss to the board in general. My opinion as well And Nelly too! That is why this is upsetting. That is why this is so confusing and if we can address any "problem" we should.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 22, 2015 19:28:02 GMT -5
Yes, but with a cost.. anapi -season3baby :) and Laura have bought so much to this board... When I haven't been able to update you guys on info they have. So we've lost two very special people IMO. They will be missed big time! And what a loss to the board in general. My opinion as well And Nelly too! That is why this is upsetting. That is why this is so confusing and if we can address any "problem" we should. Yes Nelly was a real tough ONE! She and I have similar views on a lot of things and I miss her. She too is missed heeps!
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Post by Andromeda03 on Jul 22, 2015 19:41:52 GMT -5
I really just want to also say that I hope everyone can learn from this. The whole situation has happened twice now, and each time we lose some great members. Members who have been here from the beginning and members who have really contributed a lot to the conversation. And even some newer ones every once in a while. They either leave the forum entirely, or only pop in every once in a while to see if they have any messages from friends. And it is very saddening.
Now I have not had the pleasure of interacting with many of you, so I know many of you are probably like "why in the world does she care that people are leaving", and it's because even though I haven't done a lot of posting and such...I still love this forum and love reading all the posts. And I hate that they feel that the situation has gotten so bad for them that they need to flee.
It's also feel that its a real shame that when people who post more negative feelings towards even just one episode, despite maybe even liking the previous one, quickly feel the backlash from other members for not worshiping everything BatB. And then they get labeled as a 'buzz kill'/'depressor'/'forum bringer-downer' for those thoughts.
It isn't fun being labeled a 'negative black sheep' of the forum and feeling like you aren't welcome just because you have a different view point from someone else, and yours happens to be that of not being 'positive'. Having a 'negative' opinion doesn't make someone a bad person or a bad fan. It makes them human and last I checked human is exactly what we all are. This place would be boring if everyone agreed on everything all the time.
So I really hope going forward that people can refrain from telling other members they are "bringing down the forum" and really stop with telling people their criticisms are "depressing". It's not okay. I've yet to personally see someone post anything that says "You're too happy about this episode", but I certainly have personally seen posts where people try to tell others "You're too unhappy about this episode, post nicer and be positive". Again, not cool. Because obviously, rather than changing anyone's opinion, just makes them want to stop posting and leave.
And IMO, if anything is going to "bring down the forum"...it's going to be losing all it's passionate and opinionated members, not the fact that people have negative/disappointed/opposing/critical view points (whatever you want to call them) and decided to post them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 22:36:09 GMT -5
I haven't been around the forum much lately, but I qualify as one of the Beasties that has been struggling with the writing this season. After the "Chasing Ghosts" episode, I dared to hope that my show was back. I liked parts of the latest episode, but never truly felt connected. That makes me sad. I have met some fantastic women here that have become great friends. We come from very diverse backgrounds and age ranges, and I will be forever grateful to this forum for bringing these women into my life. In solidarity with my friends, I will be leaving the forum as well. I love you anapi -season3baby :), Laura, Savana_ Dying for season3!, kiki09, @clena, @locaxbatb and VinCat❤Destined
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Post by Reyna on Jul 22, 2015 22:52:09 GMT -5
You know, I was never one to give up or lose hope. Would always be one trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. With that said, goodbye everyone, and I wish you the best of luck.
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Post by Vincent Keller on Jul 22, 2015 23:34:00 GMT -5
Okay, I've caught up on the posts, and since I've been asked for my opinion both publicly and privately, I will share it. I usually leave you guys to discuss things without trying to overly moderate what's done and said, and allow everyone to speak freely.
Side note here: a special thank you to our moderators for all they do, and I don't at all mind admitting that I have absolutely no idea why Nelly left. I've known Nelly for a long while now, even before SEO, and I hate to see her go, but she did not choose to share her reasons with me.
I feel my points will be most easily made in a numbered list, which is meant for clarity and not condescension.
1. OPINION: I have been part of online fandoms for many years now (as several of you have), and I seriously have to say this is one of the tamest and mildest fan bases I've ever seen, forum wise. Now, I don't follow too much activity on twitter, so if that's volatile, then I wouldn't know it. I don't even really like twitter at all. I'm pretty much a tumblr and instagram person. Anyway, as far as forums go, this fandom is actually not overly deeply divided, nor bitter, nor negative, nor rude, compared to MANY others, at least from what I've read and observed over the years.
2. FACT: Everyone is safe here. If you're telling people how to post in any way, you are wrong. YOU are wrong. If you're suggesting people should be more positive, you are spreading negativity to those people. "People should try to show the pros and cons..." - NO. "Voicing negative views sends the wrong message..." Nope. They can say what they want, within the rules. It's really that simple.
3. OPINION: In the past, when someone has made me feel uncomfortable in a forum situation, it made me all that much more determined to stay there and feel like: NO one is going to run me away from a forum that I am a part of, that I have contributed to. I understand that controversy makes some people very uncomfortable, and that they need to leave for their own reasons, to do what they need to do. I just wanted to throw out there the option/mode of thinking that, when someone makes you feel weird in your fan space, it can be an opportunity to dig in and own that space even more, because it is yours too. It is not theirs, it is not mine. It's ours. It's anyone's who cares in any way (good or bad), and follows the rules. So stay, if you want to stay. Everyone leaving, and dwindling opinions will not help anything, and will make it boring, but if your real life is disrupted and upset, then be happy!
4. FACT: It is absolutely untrue that negative opinions will kill the show and stop the writers from writing. As you know, the CW picked up every show for another season, so we get a season 4. I'm not talking about twitter - people have to answer for themselves on twitter, but fan forums are safe spaces for canon discussion, head canon, spoilers, debating and even ranting, when the maddening plots arise. No one has to be nervous that expressing an opinion will kill the show and make the writers quit. The higher powers KNOW that, generally Beasties adore the show and the stars of the show - remember, that is from the horse's mouth! (Kristin). Highs and lows and passion are part of fandom life. They can take opinions. They are professionals.
5. OPINION: I don't get the whole "caught in the past" issue. These are characters - fake people. If one fan is still pissed that V shoved C and another fan is still pissed that C shot V, and another fan can't get past Alex, and another thinks Cat is this way or that, this season, who cares? It's a show, and we don't have to let go and move on if we don't want to. We just really don't. There are various shows where I unfairly judge characters more harshly than others, and not at all the way I would view people in real life. I believe in forgiveness and healing in real life, but I would punch Damon Salvatore in the face, on sight - I just would. However, despite everything the Winchester brothers have done on Supernatural, I would hug them eternally. It's nonsense. It's fun. It's fandom.
BTW, not laying down the law here, just voicing my thoughts (the opinions) and hopefully clearing a few things up. (the facts). Feel free to reply.
Anyway, we built this forum out of a deep love and respect for Kristin, and we have grown to love the entire BATB family since that time. We hope you all have fun here and share your passion for the show. It really is that simple to us (Karen and I). You are all valued here and you are welcome.
Let me know if you need anything. I'm listening.
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