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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 28, 2014 13:11:49 GMT -5
I had to rewatch this episode today (much to my despair) for research for my fanfic and noticed this for the first time, too! Total continuity problem. They are ending their relationship in New York in 1954 but she was helping Scotland Yard in London 18 years before.... Lol. No wonder S2 was such a mess. They were literally rewriting storylines with each ep. Arghhh. it seems dear Ladies that no one of the writers or the showmakers pay much attention to those details like beasties do lol i think if some one asked them about that they would be confused and i can imagine them said something like that to each others 1836 or 1954 ? -- London or New York ? what's big deal ?! its enough for them to know it was in the ancient past ! it isn't like its a real history of real people ! wow those beasties are the hardest to deal with ! they notice every single tiny thing and they don't let anything go !) sure we are , and we like ourselves this way , so deal with this better than you do maybe team work between the writers team and paying more attention to details would be a good idea for S3 ! Good catch by jefferen. Maybe there's much more to the story that has yet to be told. Rebecca could have started the case with Scotland Yard around 1836 in London, but spent 18 years tracking the beast, ultimately falling in love and ending up in New York at some point. The Rebecca in Deja Vu is an image from Cat's dream, hence she's created in Cat's own image The real Rebecca could have started the case in her late 20's (like Cat's first case leading her to Vincent in the Pilot), but by the time of Alistair's death would have been in her mid-late 40's. Or maybe the writers simply did screw up when writing Deja Vu and got the location and dates wrong compared to this episode.
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Post by jefferen on Sept 28, 2014 18:22:50 GMT -5
That is probably one of the best things about this episode and why I can enjoy it. Most underrated actors everĀ I've been on the fence on whether to post in this thread, knowing that this episode is unpopular with many and makes some folks really upset. But seeing that I'm not alone in not hating this episode, here goes nothing... I like this episode quite a bit. If one can put aside that the "ship" is sailing in the wrong direction, it's a very entertaining hour (ehem 43 minutes) of TV. Even when Cat & Vincent are "trying" to be mean to each other, their "pull" is too strong and I can just see the love regardless of their words and actions. Kristin and Jay just act so well together that the episode works for me. The part I didn't like was Cat kissing Gabe at the end. But I just rewatched it again last week and I feel differently about the kiss now. To me, it's more of a peck to say "thank you, you trusted me", so I don't even mind that kiss at the end now. . Love your reasons as to why you love the episode! That's one of the reasons i can watch this episode. It's not one of my favorite episodes but I don't hate it. Through everything in this episode that vincat pull is just to strong to ignore. It was quite obvious to me atleast that everything vincat was doing in this episode was more or less out of hurt and trying to cover how they really feel. Both V&C were in denial over what they felt for one another and over the fact that neither of them were jealous. They were awful at trying to hide what they really feel. Neither of them were dealing with their feelings. And my hat is off to both KK and Jay for portraying it the way they did and I have to say that despite being at odds myself as a viewer enjoyed being able to feel that pull still and be able to recongnize that everything vincat is doing was out of hurt over the break up and that sooner or later they will get back together Bc that pull between them can only be ignored for so long. Despite fighting you can still feel that pull. They just oozed chemistry. And I enjoyed that aspect and that is the only requirement in have of this show. That no matter what I feel that pull and felt it. I don't need them to make love every episode or even have swoonworthy moments (although I'll never complain if they do) I just need to feel that pull/chemistry that jaystin/vincat has going on
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Post by ArwenFan on Sept 29, 2014 20:01:52 GMT -5
Love the vincat convo at the bar. Love how V confronts Cat about Patrick and her tongue down his throat (why do you care if you are over her?) and she asks if hes jealous Duh Cat! lol. Hes so jealous. If he wasn't why bother to bring it up. Their chemistry regardless of what going on in this episode is seriously oozing. I was waiting for their argument at the bar to some how turn passionate. Cat: what r u jealous? V: No not at all Cat: U cant stop me V: Is that so detective C: What u gonna expose me and create an international incident V:Absolutely V: Don't cross me Catherine C: Well don't make me shoot you again Vincent
love the Mr. & Mrs. Smith vibe, and that V softens a bit when telling Cat about JT's attack. Love how V&C cant help but push one another's buttons. They are acting like 2 little kids!
kinda funny how V looked over at Cat and tipped his glass up to her before going upstairs.
Great vincat scene. Despite being at odds they are oozing the chemistry. Neither of them can hide their obvious feelings I loved this bit. It was so sexy and hot. Vincent was openly taunting her. Why wouldn't he? He knew that she was just as jealous of the no-named wife as he was of Patrick.
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Post by ArwenFan on Sept 29, 2014 20:08:40 GMT -5
i loved this episode my fav of both seasons....it is so good on so many levels ... now assume the truth is the opposite of what i said above. this episode was f....d up on so many levels the way vincat treated each other really upset me, especially vincent but also cat to some extent...they were so out of character. this is the only batb episode that i was really upset with. i have been disappointed with episodes, but this one really upset me What did Vincent do that was awful towards Catherine? I didn't come away feeling he treated her anymore hateful than she treated him. She practically spit "don't make me shoot you again...and I mean that." She thought so little of Vincent at that point in time that she actually believed he killed the first guy without provocation--am I the only one who saw the guy grabbed a gun and intended to shoot Vincent? I didn't like this episode when it first aired, but it has certainly moved up list of my favorite season 2 episodes.
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Post by ArwenFan on Sept 29, 2014 20:15:03 GMT -5
That is probably one of the best things about this episode and why I can enjoy it. Most underrated actors ever I've been on the fence on whether to post in this thread, knowing that this episode is unpopular with many and makes some folks really upset. But seeing that I'm not alone in not hating this episode, here goes nothing... I like this episode quite a bit. If one can put aside that the "ship" is sailing in the wrong direction, it's a very entertaining hour (ehem 43 minutes) of TV. Even when Cat & Vincent are "trying" to be mean to each other, their "pull" is too strong and I can just see the love regardless of their words and actions. Kristin and Jay just act so well together that the episode works for me. The part I didn't like was Cat kissing Gabe at the end. But I just rewatched it again last week and I feel differently about the kiss now. To me, it's more of a peck to say "thank you, you trusted me", so I don't even mind that kiss at the end now.Not that I disagree with your interpretation, but she could have SAID that. Women who want to be taken seriously at their places of work don't kiss their superiors in the open to convey thanks. That was stupid.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 29, 2014 20:39:14 GMT -5
I've been on the fence on whether to post in this thread, knowing that this episode is unpopular with many and makes some folks really upset. But seeing that I'm not alone in not hating this episode, here goes nothing... I like this episode quite a bit. If one can put aside that the "ship" is sailing in the wrong direction, it's a very entertaining hour (ehem 43 minutes) of TV. Even when Cat & Vincent are "trying" to be mean to each other, their "pull" is too strong and I can just see the love regardless of their words and actions. Kristin and Jay just act so well together that the episode works for me. The part I didn't like was Cat kissing Gabe at the end. But I just rewatched it again last week and I feel differently about the kiss now. To me, it's more of a peck to say "thank you, you trusted me", so I don't even mind that kiss at the end now.Not that I disagree with your interpretation, but she could have SAID that. Women who want to be taken seriously at their places of work don't kiss their superiors in the open to convey thanks. That was stupid. You're right. The kiss was lame. It really bothered me the first time I saw the episode live, now not so much.
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Post by jefferen on Sept 29, 2014 21:02:22 GMT -5
Love the vincat convo at the bar. Love how V confronts Cat about Patrick and her tongue down his throat (why do you care if you are over her?) and she asks if hes jealous Duh Cat! lol. Hes so jealous. If he wasn't why bother to bring it up. Their chemistry regardless of what going on in this episode is seriously oozing. I was waiting for their argument at the bar to some how turn passionate. Cat: what r u jealous? V: No not at all Cat: U cant stop me V: Is that so detective C: What u gonna expose me and create an international incident V:Absolutely V: Don't cross me Catherine C: Well don't make me shoot you again Vincent
love the Mr. & Mrs. Smith vibe, and that V softens a bit when telling Cat about JT's attack. Love how V&C cant help but push one another's buttons. They are acting like 2 little kids!
kinda funny how V looked over at Cat and tipped his glass up to her before going upstairs.
Great vincat scene. Despite being at odds they are oozing the chemistry. Neither of them can hide their obvious feelings I loved this bit. It was so sexy and hot. Vincent was openly taunting her. Why wouldn't he? He knew that she was just as jealous of the no-named wife as he was of Patrick. Exactly! They just ooze passion/chemistry. There is so much between them, that in scenes like that, I feel like w/ just a little more push or shove from either of them and if there were less people around or they were alone I felt like their heated exchanges could easily turn passionate
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Sept 30, 2014 0:46:41 GMT -5
i loved this episode my fav of both seasons....it is so good on so many levels ... now assume the truth is the opposite of what i said above. this episode was f....d up on so many levels the way vincat treated each other really upset me, especially vincent but also cat to some extent...they were so out of character. this is the only batb episode that i was really upset with. i have been disappointed with episodes, but this one really upset me What did Vincent do that was awful towards Catherine? I didn't come away feeling he treated her anymore hateful than she treated him. She practically spit "don't make me shoot you again...and I mean that." She thought so little of Vincent at that point in time that she actually believed he killed the first guy without provocation--am I the only one who saw the guy grabbed a gun and intended to shoot Vincent? I didn't like this episode when it first aired, but it has certainly moved up list of my favorite season 2 episodes. vincent did nothing physically to catherine but he was completely not himself ..he was completely lost and a start contrast to what i saw in episodes 9 and 11 there was a lot of psychological "torture" and mental games they played to each other and I just hated that, they had not done that before and did not do it since this is the one episode that i just found really hard to watch
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 30, 2014 13:31:55 GMT -5
What did Vincent do that was awful towards Catherine? I didn't come away feeling he treated her anymore hateful than she treated him. She practically spit "don't make me shoot you again...and I mean that." She thought so little of Vincent at that point in time that she actually believed he killed the first guy without provocation--am I the only one who saw the guy grabbed a gun and intended to shoot Vincent? I didn't like this episode when it first aired, but it has certainly moved up list of my favorite season 2 episodes. vincent did nothing physically to catherine but he was completely not himself ..he was completely lost and a start contrast to what i saw in episodes 9 and 11 there was a lot of psychological "torture" and mental games they played to each other and I just hated that, they had not done that before and did not do it since this is the one episode that i just found really hard to watch From my viewpoint, Tori and the Gem are directly interrelated to Vincent's character change. Vincent was almost back to being his old S1 self by the time of the Thanksgiving dinner. Enter Tori and her beast amplification effect on Vincent which caused him to lose his humanity. By the time of the Ancestors episode, I felt that Tori's beast amplification effect had reached it's zenith on Vincent, which is why I can accept his out of character behavior in this episode. Once he steals the gem, that all begins to change. The gem counteracts Tori and brings back his humanity. Hence in the next episode you begin to see Vincent acting again more like how we'd expect. The gem is the catalyst that starts the turn around and sets Vincent back on the road to Catherine.
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Post by jefferen on Sept 30, 2014 13:38:05 GMT -5
vincent did nothing physically to catherine but he was completely not himself ..he was completely lost and a start contrast to what i saw in episodes 9 and 11 there was a lot of psychological "torture" and mental games they played to each other and I just hated that, they had not done that before and did not do it since this is the one episode that i just found really hard to watch From my viewpoint, Tori and the Gem are directly interrelated to Vincent's character change. Vincent was almost back to being his old S1 self by the time of the Thanksgiving dinner. Enter Tori and her beast amplification effect on Vincent which caused him to lose his humanity. By the time of the Ancestors episode, I felt that Tori's beast amplification effect had reached it's zenith on Vincent, which is why I can accept his out of character behavior in this episode. Once he steals the gem, that all begins to change. The gem counteracts Tori and brings back his humanity. Hence in the next episode you begin to see Vincent acting again more like how we'd expect. The gem is the catalyst that starts the turn around and sets Vincent back on the road to Catherine. This is a pretty great theory. I've never thought of it like that
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Post by BeastieBoy on Sept 30, 2014 13:50:48 GMT -5
To add more evidence to my "theory", in next episode Held Hostage, Vincent doesn't hear Cat's prayer because he's carrying the gem. Yet he does the right thing, because it's the gem that's restoring Vincent to his old self by taking away the beast and Tori's beast amplification along with it.
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Post by raniamahd on Oct 14, 2014 13:18:47 GMT -5
To add more evidence to my "theory", in next episode Held Hostage, Vincent doesn't hear Cat's prayer because he's carrying the gem. Yet he does the right thing, because it's the gem that's restoring Vincent to his old self by taking away the beast and Tori's beast amplification along with it. Sorry for the late comment but i just notice your post now ? yes its a good theory but doesn't explain why in ep12 when he lost the gem and was so close to Tori but yet he started to act like himself again around Cat and the whole gang , started rejecting Tori and tried to get out of what she called that thing between them ? yeah (kind of relation ) !! saying there is something on her effected badly the way he thinks and feels ?!! and there i was like : really BATB' writers ?! you remembered this and went there again now ?! he and all of them knew since Thanksgiving disaster that she had a bad effect on beasts , she fired their rage and made them beast out and turn more to their beastly side than their human ones ! i even think that one of the reason Vincent went throw this (kind of relation) with her , because he needed her power to increase his beastly power ! --- but after that they acted like they forgot this or decided to stop using this card ?! but yet there we were when they decided to use this card again ? but the writer made it in ep12 like its a new shocking discovery he just made ?!!! like it wasn't something very known from the beginning ?! and still no explanation about why he was capable then to refuse and fight her bad effect on him without the gem ?! what he had in ep12 that he didn't have in ep7,8 when he made the wrong choices and acted out of his character around her ? not Cat ? because he had her more in those eps than he had her in ep12 ?! imho that was the problem with most of S2 story line ? a poor , disconnected scrappy written ! -- so for me i stopped trying to find a logical explanation for those unjustified and unconvinced storyline and accepted those as just a poor or a black hole storyline !
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 14, 2014 13:53:37 GMT -5
Love how Jay portrays V as having ZERO patience with Tori # i know it sounds ridiculous but i did not like how he treated her he treated her like a piece of s..t in this episode and that is so not like him they could have shown he is not interested in other ways sigh vincent upset me more than cat this episode though cat was also totally out of character cat upset me more in 209 though - felt really sorry for vincent there
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Post by raniamahd on Oct 14, 2014 15:09:58 GMT -5
Love how Jay portrays V as having ZERO patience with Tori # i know it sounds ridiculous but i did not like how he treated her he treated her like a piece of s..t in this episode and that is so not like him they could have shown he is not interested in other ways sigh vincent upset me more than cat this episode though cat was also totally out of character cat upset me more in 209 though - felt really sorry for vincent there In some how i agree with you on this ! i won't dream of defending Tori but in a way they made it looked like that Vincent was just using her ? he needed her power and her help in his beasts/gem hunt which she had zero interest in it ,he even used her as a lure -- not to mention he needed her to break his loneliness and warm his bed after Cat dumped him ! he didn't even bother to care for her feeling or what she needed or want ! but once he reconnected with Cat , had her called "friendship" back (and the hope of maybe more than friendship again of course ) and her help in the gem/beastly thing -- Tori's services were no longer wanted or appreciated ! he started shutting her out and , rejecting her and realized her bad effect on him ? really body ?! and you just notice that now ?!! --- typical guys style , right ? again in some how its similar to the way Cat used Gabe to hid from her feeling for Vincent ? she even did cheat on him with her called "break up sex" with V and acted like nothing happened ? like she could keep on her called "relationship " with Gabe without bothering to tell him about her "break up sex " -- and once she was sure about Vincent again she dumped Gabe in one second ! you see if both Gabe and Tori were totally innocent here then we should feel sorry for them because of the way vincat used them in the middle of their messy break up drama ! -- but they weren't innocent at all ?! specially Gabe ! yes Tori wasn't there from the beginning to know what V&C meant for each other , how much they loved each other and what history they shared unlike Gabe of course who was aware of all that but his ego made him thought he could beat all of this , also Tori's crimes can never compare to Gabe's , at least she didn't try to kill Cat or harm her in any way to get Vincent ! she just put her eye on V once she knew she is a beast too and had no other options and used the hole in his relationship with Cat to her benefit , which was wrong of course but didn't justify the way V used her or made her deserve to die for her sins ! unlike Gabe who deserved all of what came to him specially to be killed on Cat's hand between all people !
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Post by BeastieBoy on Oct 14, 2014 15:29:39 GMT -5
To add more evidence to my "theory", in next episode Held Hostage, Vincent doesn't hear Cat's prayer because he's carrying the gem. Yet he does the right thing, because it's the gem that's restoring Vincent to his old self by taking away the beast and Tori's beast amplification along with it. Sorry for the late comment but i just notice your post now ? yes its a good theory but doesn't explain why in ep12 when he lost the gem and was so close to Tori but yet he started to act like himself again around Cat and the whole gang , started rejecting Tori and tried to get out of what she called that thing between them ? yeah (kind of relation ) !! saying there is something on her effected badly the way he thinks and feels ?!! and there i was like : really BATB' writers ?! you remembered this and went there again now ?! he and all of them knew since Thanksgiving disaster that she had a bad effect on beasts , she fired their rage and made them beast out and turn more to their beastly side than their human ones ! i even think that one of the reason Vincent went throw this (kind of relation) with her , because he needed her power to increase his beastly power ! --- but after that they acted like they forgot this or decided to stop using this card ?! but yet there we were when they decided to use this card again ? but the writer made it in ep12 like its a new shocking discovery he just made ?!!! like it wasn't something very known from the beginning ?! and still no explanation about why he was capable then to refuse and fight her bad effect on him without the gem ?! what he had in ep12 that he didn't have in ep7,8 when he made the wrong choices and acted out of his character around her ? not Cat ? because he had her more in those eps than he had her in ep12 ?! imho that was the problem with most of S2 story line ? a poor , disconnected scrappy written ! -- so for me i stopped trying to find a logical explanation for those unjustified and unconvinced storyline and accepted those as just a poor or a black hole storyline ! Yup, the writers do leave holes and have inconsistencies for sure. I'd like to think that the gem broke Vincent out of Tori's spell. So in ep 12, even though the gem isn't there in the beginning of the episode, Vincent starts to act more like himself. When she dies, her beast amplification influence is totally gone. I agree that the writers should have done a better job, but I'm sticking with my theory, as that was my interpretation of Vincent's erratic behavior when watching the show. OTOH, Catherine's behavior with Gabe is more puzzling and less acceptable in ep 12-14. I won't even begin to try to explain or defend that one, especially not in this "Ancestors" thread.
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