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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 23, 2014 22:11:18 GMT -5
I loved Lights playing over the montage of what happened immediately after Vincent was taken. The opening act really showed the new energy of the show.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 23, 2014 22:26:37 GMT -5
I loved Lights playing over the montage of what happened immediately after Vincent was taken. The opening act really showed the new energy of the show. Lights BOTH the Wanderhouse and the original Ellie Goulding song is one of my favorites of the season. It does gives us the feels of the season in the just the opening. Catherine bringing Gabe back to life.. ironic now actually LOL
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 23, 2014 22:37:46 GMT -5
What did you guys think about Vincent's tracking abilities? I never really understood them. I don't understand how they work... Is it like a beacon? Sonar? That's what I understood it to be like LOL They compared V's tracking abilities to those of an apex predator, I think a grizzly bear was the example used.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 23, 2014 22:39:28 GMT -5
I still really wish they had made a clear call with Gabe from day one...I for one never bought good Gabe! I never trusted Gabe. He tried to change his stripes, but he was rotten at his core.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 23, 2014 22:52:00 GMT -5
And in this episode begins Gabe lethany about protecting Cat from Vincent, I can't stand it knowing now how it ended! Once again..they had to start somewhere...Giving Gabe a purpose in Catherine bringing him back to help her find Vincent. As much as I ALWAYS said that Gabe was a baddie. there are different ways of being bad. I mean him trying to be good all the time was a giveaway. As much as he wants to make amends for what he done, he always had a different agenda. Now as for when did he 'supposingly' fall in love with Catherine? He forgot his dead girlfriend so fast. Tyler wasn't even buried and he fell for Catherine? The only person Gabe ever cared about is Gabe.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 23, 2014 23:13:32 GMT -5
me too I absolutely love this scene. Im still sometimes confused by the look V makes at the very end of the scene when he opens his eyes while holding Cat when shes crying... I always felt that it looked as if he knew that she needed him to hold her, that that was the right thing to do, but he had no connection to her feelings, her sense of loss...so he was there, being a shoulder to cry on, but they were completely disconnected emotionally...that's my take, anyways! My two cents...he was drawn to her, felt empathy for her heartache, he behaved instinctively when he turned back--kissed her--held her when she began to cry. But those stirrings for Catherine conflicted with his programming. So, I thought his expression was one of conflict.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 24, 2014 11:48:42 GMT -5
Okay, finally just got to re-watch the episode.
Interesting to note how JT says "I owe him" to Catherine about Vincent. And Catherine never picks up on this. I mean, JT gave up his life to help hide Vincent for over a decade. So why would JT still owe him? We know, of course, from future episodes; but JT's guilt is first evident here.
Also, I really REALLY wish we could have gotten some sort of real indication of what was going on in Vincent's mind this season! It is fascinating how Jay plays the scenes in this episode. In the scene that others have commented on, the programming slips for Vincent when he first kisses Cat in the apartment. The pull is real and Vincent just kisses her as he would have before. It is just natural to him and does not appear to be an act. He promises her then that he won't leave. It just sort of spills out of him, and he kisses her because he can't seem to stop himself. He feels for her pain. The emotions are on his face. Then the freaking phone rings. It is like the phone brings Vincent back to the present and to his mission. From that point forward, his face blanks out, even though Cat starts crying. Cat hugs Vincent, BUT NOTICE THAT VINCENT DOESN'T seem to hug her back at that point, and his face does not contort with sympathy or anything else. His face is freaking blank, and the mission has taken back over. The gears are turning in Vincent's head already about how to ditch Cat, despite the earlier promise.
Also, now that I have seen this episode again, how freaking much of a nightmare that the Tori first kiss scene kind of plays out IN THE SAME WAY. Tori is at her lowest, having beasted out in front of people and destroyed the Thanksgiving meal AFTER having almost died in the car accident where she was trying to "kill" her beast side. She had lost her Dad and just found out that she is a beast like him, and she has not really reacted to it all. Like Cat, it all comes spilling out, and she goes to Vincent, same as Cat does in 201. And they kiss. And Vincent's face almost again goes blank with Tori when Cat comes, almost identically to 201 as Vincent is now on a New Mission, of sorts, to do what Reynolds has ordered in making Cat go away. It is like the same scene all over again and does sort of show how Vincent will 1) get caught up in the moment and try to provide the woman with comfort and a sense of connection because he UNDERSTANDS the conflict and horrible situation yet 2) quickly shuts down and goes into Mission Mode --what do I need to get out of this scene, whether it is to lull Cat into comfort so he can leave as in Episode 201 or get Cat to leave "for her own good" and as ordered by Reynolds (and because his S1 insecurities are back in spades that Cat would be so much better off without him) in "Guess Who Is Coming to Dinner." I NEVER made this connection between the 2 scenes and the 2 episodes before. TO ME, it shows that despite the passage of time, Vincent isn't out from under the whole Beast Mission Arc and has not dealt with just how much of his life he lost and where he is and what direction he will take moving forward. Everything is suddenly back up in the air at Thanksgiving, same as it was in 201.
Other thing I liked about this episode: Tess warning Cat that she has not dealt with all the trauma AND that it will come back to bite her in a major way when she finally lets it out. Goodness knows, this explains a great deal of Cat's reactions from 201 through 215, at least for me. Cat just has had so much. She tells Vincent in this episode that she has "lost so much" and "cannot lose you too." Cat has held onto her sanity by waiting for Vincent to come back and make her feel whole again. She would just deal with everything once she had a shoulder to lean upon and a future to look forward to. Fair enough, given all she has been through. So Cat has wait to dealt with the pain and loss, only to discover that there is an even worse loss and pain to still undergo. No wonder she seems weak and unable to deal. Even the strongest person has their breaking point AND then must learn to build oneself back up all over again. Cat needs to do this for herself, so there is not much left to get Vincent to figure out how to rebuild himself, particularly if he doesn't seem to want to. Vincent is, after all, convinced he volunteered for this mission AND CHOSE to leave Cat.
Okay, I will go ahead and say this. Gabe seems really determined to be the right kind of person. I really do think that he tried to reform. But at the core, Gabe only does care for Gabe. Gabe is actually doing all of this to make Gabe feel better about his past acts. HOWEVER, while I feel this is true as seen by the season's end, Gabe DOES risk his own life in this episode in order to try to help Vincent. And Gabe says his mission is to "Save Vincent" AND "protect Cat." The cracks in Gabe's Plan for his own betterment basically derail when his two mission arcs seem to him to be in direct opposition to one another. But here, Gabe really is attempting to both help and fix Joe's mess. Gabe really never understood himself, beast or otherwise. No wonder he couldn't control himself. And Gabe has his own traumas to overcome. Gabe looks to redemption to fix himself and his past without ever really coming to terms OR ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY for his own acts. Does make Gabe a little tragic, although OF COURSE he deserved what he got. If Gabe had never fallen for the girl, what might his life have become? Could he have found redemption?
And just GOT to add: Woe befalls anyone seeking to sit in Joe's chair. Whoever is head of Cat's precinct now has the tradition of losing someone they love and then reacting badly, derailing their career in the process in the quest for revenge. Wow. Both Joe and Gabe. Makes you worry for the new precinct guy!
Wow, amazing the impact an beginning/origins episode has on you once you have seen the whole season plan unfold!
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Post by jefferen on Jul 24, 2014 13:15:17 GMT -5
I always felt that it looked as if he knew that she needed him to hold her, that that was the right thing to do, but he had no connection to her feelings, her sense of loss...so he was there, being a shoulder to cry on, but they were completely disconnected emotionally...that's my take, anyways! My two cents...he was drawn to her, felt empathy for her heartache, he behaved instinctively when he turned back--kissed her--held her when she began to cry. But those stirrings for Catherine conflicted with his programming. So, I thought his expression was one of conflict. I thought kinda the same thing. V was drawn her and felt empathy. He felt the pull, but like you said obviously he knew that this situation wasnt what was supposed to be going on and if he got drawn in any further it might not end well for either of them. The kiss was so sad and passionate at the same time. I felt for both Catherine & Vincent.
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Post by jefferen on Jul 24, 2014 13:25:49 GMT -5
Okay, finally just got to re-watch the episode. Interesting to note how JT says "I owe him" to Catherine about Vincent. And Catherine never picks up on this. I mean, JT gave up his life to help hide Vincent for over a decade. So why would JT still owe him? We know, of course, from future episodes; but JT's guilt is first evident here. Also, I really REALLY wish we could have gotten some sort of real indication of what was going on in Vincent's mind this season! It is fascinating how Jay plays the scenes in this episode. In the scene that others have commented on, the programming slips for Vincent when he first kisses Cat in the apartment. The pull is real and Vincent just kisses her as he would have before. It is just natural to him and does not appear to be an act. He promises her then that he won't leave. It just sort of spills out of him, and he kisses her because he can't seem to stop himself. He feels for her pain. The emotions are on his face. Then the freaking phone rings. It is like the phone brings Vincent back to the present and to his mission. From that point forward, his face blanks out, even though Cat starts crying. Cat hugs Vincent, BUT NOTICE THAT VINCENT DOESN'T seem to hug her back at that point, and his face does not contort with sympathy or anything else. His face is freaking blank, and the mission has taken back over. The gears are turning in Vincent's head already about how to ditch Cat, despite the earlier promise. Also, now that I have seen this episode again, how freaking much of a nightmare that the Tori first kiss scene kind of plays out IN THE SAME WAY. Tori is at her lowest, having beasted out in front of people and destroyed the Thanksgiving meal AFTER having almost died in the car accident where she was trying to "kill" her beast side. She had lost her Dad and just found out that she is a beast like him, and she has not really reacted to it all. Like Cat, it all comes spilling out, and she goes to Vincent, same as Cat does in 201. And they kiss. And Vincent's face almost again goes blank with Tori when Cat comes, almost identically to 201 as Vincent is now on a New Mission, of sorts, to do what Reynolds has ordered in making Cat go away. It is like the same scene all over again and does sort of show how Vincent will 1) get caught up in the moment and try to provide the woman with comfort and a sense of connection because he UNDERSTANDS the conflict and horrible situation yet 2) quickly shuts down and goes into Mission Mode --what do I need to get out of this scene, whether it is to lull Cat into comfort so he can leave as in Episode 201 or get Cat to leave "for her own good" and as ordered by Reynolds (and because his S1 insecurities are back in spades that Cat would be so much better off without him) in "Guess Who Is Coming to Dinner." I NEVER made this connection between the 2 scenes and the 2 episodes before. TO ME, it shows that despite the passage of time, Vincent isn't out from under the whole Beast Mission Arc and has not dealt with just how much of his life he lost and where he is and what direction he will take moving forward. Everything is suddenly back up in the air at Thanksgiving, same as it was in 201. Other thing I liked about this episode: Tess warning Cat that she has not dealt with all the trauma AND that it will come back to bite her in a major way when she finally lets it out. Goodness knows, this explains a great deal of Cat's reactions from 201 through 215, at least for me. Cat just has had so much. She tells Vincent in this episode that she has "lost so much" and "cannot lose you too." Cat has held onto her sanity by waiting for Vincent to come back and make her feel whole again. She would just deal with everything once she had a shoulder to lean upon and a future to look forward to. Fair enough, given all she has been through. So Cat has wait to dealt with the pain and loss, only to discover that there is an even worse loss and pain to still undergo. No wonder she seems weak and unable to deal. Even the strongest person has their breaking point AND then must learn to build oneself back up all over again. Cat needs to do this for herself, so there is not much left to get Vincent to figure out how to rebuild himself, particularly if he doesn't seem to want to. Vincent is, after all, convinced he volunteered for this mission AND CHOSE to leave Cat. Okay, I will go ahead and say this. Gabe seems really determined to be the right kind of person. I really do think that he tried to reform. But at the core, Gabe only does care for Gabe. Gabe is actually doing all of this to make Gabe feel better about his past acts. HOWEVER, while I feel this is true as seen by the season's end, Gabe DOES risk his own life in this episode in order to try to help Vincent. And Gabe says his mission is to "Save Vincent" AND "protect Cat." The cracks in Gabe's Plan for his own betterment basically derail when his two mission arcs seem to him to be in direct opposition to one another. But here, Gabe really is attempting to both help and fix Joe's mess. Gabe really never understood himself, beast or otherwise. No wonder he couldn't control himself. And Gabe has his own traumas to overcome. Gabe looks to redemption to fix himself and his past without ever really coming to terms OR ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY for his own acts. Does make Gabe a little tragic, although OF COURSE he deserved what he got. If Gabe had never fallen for the girl, what might his life have become? Could he have found redemption? And just GOT to add: Woe befalls anyone seeking to sit in Joe's chair. Whoever is head of Cat's precinct now has the tradition of losing someone they love and then reacting badly, derailing their career in the process in the quest for revenge. Wow. Both Joe and Gabe. Makes you worry for the new precinct guy! Wow, amazing the impact an beginning/origins episode has on you once you have seen the whole season plan unfold! Another amazing analysis! I love reading your thoughts and all your posts on this show! Thank You
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 24, 2014 13:27:54 GMT -5
My two cents...he was drawn to her, felt empathy for her heartache, he behaved instinctively when he turned back--kissed her--held her when she began to cry. But those stirrings for Catherine conflicted with his programming. So, I thought his expression was one of conflict. I thought kinda the same thing. V was drawn her and felt empathy. He felt the pull, but like you said obviously he knew that this situation wasnt what was supposed to be going on and if he got drawn in any further it might not end well for either of them. The kiss was so sad and passionate at the same time. I felt for both Catherine & Vincent. And the killer to the whole scene was the song I Can't Make You Love Me. That has always been one of my all-time favorite ballads. Loved the Bonnie Raitt original and never thought anyone could come close to it, but the version played in Who Am I was just as heartbreaking.
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Post by jefferen on Jul 24, 2014 13:52:24 GMT -5
I thought kinda the same thing. V was drawn her and felt empathy. He felt the pull, but like you said obviously he knew that this situation wasnt what was supposed to be going on and if he got drawn in any further it might not end well for either of them. The kiss was so sad and passionate at the same time. I felt for both Catherine & Vincent. And the killer to the whole scene was the song I Can't Make You Love Me. That has always been one of my all-time favorite ballads. Loved the Bonnie Raitt original and never thought anyone could come close to it, but the version played in Who Am I was just as heartbreaking. That song actually gave me chills! Def one of my favorites songs played on BATB! And the way Jay & KK's body language was, absolutely perfect. I wonder what kinda of conversations went on between the two of them between then & when Tess called her and we find out V is missing. Both KK & Jay play the emotions of their character so well. I wish though, we were clued in more onto what thoughts were going through V's head the first few episodes of season 2
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 19:43:29 GMT -5
I don't understand how they work... Is it like a beacon? Sonar? That's what I understood it to be like LOL They compared V's tracking abilities to those of an apex predator, I think a grizzly bear was the example used. That was the example used....and in that case, I'm more than ready for a bear hug!!!!!
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 26, 2014 4:09:56 GMT -5
A little reminder that we will rewatch KIDNAPPED on Monday and I will open a thread a few minutes prior to the 9PM EST restart time
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 26, 2014 9:56:42 GMT -5
About the hug at the end...Vincent was comforting her but yet he was spaced out in his own thoughts ..Was he thinking about Killing Zhao? About the pull he feels for Catherine or about how he's failing miserably in trying to be a soldier?
If you ask me? All the above his erased mind was in overdrive all cause of a woman named Catherine Chandler!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 10:13:23 GMT -5
About the hug at the end...Vincent was comforting her but yet he was spaced out in his own thoughts ..Was he thinking about Killing Zhao? About the pull he feels for Catherine or about how he's failing miserably in trying to be a soldier? If you ask me? All the above his erased mind was in overdrive all cause of a woman named Catherine Chandler! And that VinCat❤Destined is why my heart ached so very much for Vincent ..
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